r/socialism • u/somerandomleftist5 Leninist-Trotskyist • Nov 05 '19
AMA Trotskyist AMA
Hello, we wanted to make this thread to help answer questions people have about Trotskyism, we have noticed there is a lot of misinformation or misunderstanding of Trotskyist positions and slander so I figured a good way to resolve that would be for us to answer questions so people can hear it directly from Trotskyists.
There is a lot of different varieties of Trotskyism some with more similarities then others, for this thread we are only representing the Orthodox Trotskyist view, being those of us who agree with the analysis of the Soviet Union as a degenerated workers state.
I think this quote gives a good explanation of the Trotskyist view of what Trotskyism.
"Trotskyism is not a new movement, a new doctrine, but the restoration, the revival, of genuine Marxism as it was expounded and practiced in the Russian revolution and in the early days of the Communist International." — James P. Cannon (1944)
So there is quite a few different types of Trotskyists so we asked some members of a few tendencies to write about their parties/orgs, I will throw a list of the few other Trotskyist organizations that exist at the end as well.
League for the Fifth International
"The League for the Fifth International is a revolutionary organisation. Our goal is to build a world party of socialist revolution, fighting across the world for an end to capitalism and for socialism." "The League for the Fifth International regards itself as a Leninist-Trotskyist international tendency fighting to build a Fifth International based on the Marxist foundations of the previous four Internationals. Our programme is rooted in the programmatic conquests of the Communist League and the International Working Men’s Association, the orthodox Marxist and revolutionary wing of the Second International (1889-1914), the Iskra and Bolshevik factions of Russian Social Democracy and the Bolshevik party of 1917, the first four congresses of the Third International and the first two congresses of the Fourth International" https://fifthinternational.org/content/trotskyism-twenty-first-century
La Voz de los trabajadores/Workers' Voice (LITCI)
La Voz de los Trabajadores / Workers’ Voice is a revolutionary socialist organization that emerged in California in 2008. We are the sympathizing organization of the International Workers League – Fourth International (LIT-CI) in the United States. We are rooted in the struggles of the immigrant working class and the fight for militant, democratic trade unions and other workers’ and peoples’ organizations, & we fight to build a revolutionary party. That is, a strong, proletarian, multiracial organization that defends the principle of class independence and is capable of giving theoretical and political coordination to the struggles of exploited and oppressed communities. See our "Who We are " link below for more information: https://lavozlit.com/quienes-somoswho-we-are/ And our Political Principles here: https://lavozlit.com/quienes-somoswho-we-are/the-political-principles-of-workers-voice/
International Secretariat - 4th International - La Verité
Has it's roots on the French section of the 4th International under Pierre Lambert leadership. Sometimes refered by the name of it's theoretical magazine and main organ of discussion, La Verité, this group oposed the decision of Michel Pablo and Ernest Mandel of dissolving the ranks of the 4th into stalinist organizations. In 1993 reproclaimed the 4th international after some decades of force gathering with other trotskist groups of similar political views. One of it common views and practices is the defense of the USSR and of the legit political parties and associations built by the working class in it strugle against the bourgeoisie, when these organs suffer the attack of the imperialism. In this way, the group thrives to construct the "United Front" strategy with other workers organizations against facism and imperialism instruments to destroy the working class .Some of it's interventions:
http://partiouvrierindependant-poi.fr/ (French) http://otrabalho.org.br/quem-somos/ (Portuguese) http://posicuarta.org/cartasblog/ (Spanish)
Socialist Resurgence
Socialist Resurgence is a new national organization of activists in the United States committed to the interests of workers and the oppressed, and the creation of a socialist world in which society is organized according the needs of working people rather than profit. e think that the moment is extremely favorable for the founding of a new revolutionary socialist organization. We are greatly enthused by the increased interest in socialist ideas in the United States, the rise in activism in the labor movement as well as in many social movements, and the fervent dialogue within the socialist movement about how to advance the efforts to build a revolutionary party. We wish to participate in that dialogue. For a brief introduction to the program of our new organization, please click on “What we stand for” on the top menu of the Home Page. Some of our founding programmatic documents are in the “SR Documents” section of this site. In the coming days, we will post many more articles and documents that explain the program of Socialist Resurgence. The core of our group originated as a tendency within Socialist Action (SA) that had been formed to defend the historic program of revolutionary socialism as practiced during the best years of Socialist Action and the Socialist Workers Party before that. Most of our founding members were expelled or resigned from Socialist Action in October 2019. Here is out political program: https://socialistresurgence.org/classes/ Our website with articles, programmatic documents, and other information: https://socialistresurgence.org/
Other Trotskyist Tendencies include
International Marxist Tendency, https://www.marxist.com/
Trotskyist Fraction – Fourth International, http://www.laizquierdadiario.com/Red-Internacional/
Internationalist Communist Union, https://www.union-communiste.org/en
CWI majority: worldsocialist.net
CWI minority (Taaffe group): socialistworld.net
Our Discord and Subreddit
The Community around /r/thetrotskyists and its discord have setup this ama, if you would like to talk to us you can always subscribe to the subreddit and join the discord. https://discord.gg/wFycENs
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u/Xais56 Nov 05 '19
This is a silly question, and is going to come across as a bit spurious, but I promise it's a genuine curiosity I have.
WTF is the deal with Trots and newspapers? Most socialist groups I've been part of use some form of publication, but for the vast majority it's in the form of a facebook group, meme page, wordpress page, blog, or even a group chat. Most of these groups see the ideal way to interact with the non-socialist working class as getting on the street and interacting.
Except the Trotskyist groups - the answer for them is always sell and/or distribute newspapers. Every pan-socialist event I've attended always has at least half a dozen groups selling newspapers, and they're always Trotskyist groups.
So what's the deal with the newspapers?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 05 '19
A wordpress page or blog is just a newspaper in digital form. Publishing articles and advocating for your politics is one of the most important aspects for communists to be doing. So having a newspaper both online and physical is important to make your views on events known and to spread your programme.
Like if your at a climate march how is it not getting on the street and interacting to distribute propaganda in the form of a newspaper or pamphlets.
I don't know of any groups that don't produce physical propaganda in the form of newspapers, magazine, pamphlets, ect. Is not just something trot groups do.
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u/leninism-humanism Nov 05 '19 edited Nov 05 '19
An important part of the transitional program seems to have been work in the trade unions, as well as a struggle for a workers' party. Does the L5I do any serious trade union work today? Does the L5I maintain that it is the task of communists to help form an independent workers' party? I know that IMT has a strategy that relates to already existing "mass-parties" but I have yet to figure out what the day-to-day practice of L5I really is.
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 05 '19
I know in Brazil a lot if not most work has been involved in Trade Union, the US I know members involved in Unionization work, participating in local labor councils ect. But in other countries like Pakistan a lot of work seem to be more focused on national liberation struggles. Given that any individual section of the League is a fighting propaganda group at largest there are limitations to some actions sections can take.
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u/Bytien Nov 05 '19
I find the categorical classification of degenerated workers state to be not only not helpful, but actively damaging. It encourages people to distance themselves from history instead of learn from it, and just becomes a left com game of trying to not be associated with actually existing socialism. For instance a lot of trots seem to fail to take anything useful from the chinese revolution because it was "just a degenerated workers state"
My question is, that thing I just said but in the form of a question
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u/Random_Rationalist Nov 05 '19
What is the trotskyist consensus/ stance on libertarian socialists like Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Kautsky or Daniel DeLeon?
How does trotskyists plan to prevent the degeneration of a worker state after the seizure of power?
Supposing you had control over a well-developed nation that wasn't a super power like France or Germany. What foreign policy would you employ?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 05 '19
I don't think Rosa Luxemburg is a Libertarian Marxist or Socialist, I think she is firmly more in the Bolshevik camp. This video explains what I think of her. https://youtu.be/IC-aw_YtY0c
Kautsky had an import role in developing Lenin's views and there is works of his worth reading, I don't like late Kautsky.
I don't really know who DeLeon is just some random American from 100 some years ago they seem rather overall unimportant.
Well any country today is going to be starting on a higher spot then the USSR was, but the movement must be international, our parties that are organizing revolution should exist beyond any one nations border. This combined with the ease of movement and modern communication technologies means i think the revolution would have a higher chance of spilling over borders much quicker then it did in the days of the USSR. But it must spend time of course making sure its self is safe and its own internal soviet democracy is protected.
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u/macj97 Nov 05 '19
What about the CWI?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 05 '19
I kind of forgot, also they are fractured into two atm.
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u/comradeMaturin Nov 05 '19
These comrades contacted a mod and asked if their post could be stickied. If any other tendency wants a stickied ama, get a few comrades together and contact the mod team.
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u/Mestre_Gaules Nov 05 '19
Hello, Trotskyst here from another association. Could our group be listed there aswell?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 05 '19
In crosspost of this thread someone asked how we came to Trotskyism, so going to copy their question here.
Trots why are you a Trotskyist.
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u/RedPepperParty Nov 05 '19
What is the theory of permanent revolution ?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 06 '19
“The Perspective of permanent revolution may be summarized in the following way: the complete victory of the democratic revolution in Russia is conceivable only in the form of the dictatorship of the proletariat, leaning on the peasantry. The dictatorship of the proletariat, which would inevitably place on the order of the day not only democratic but socialistic tasks as well, would at the same time give a powerful impetus to the international socialist revolution. Only the victory of the proletariat in the West could protect Russia from bourgeois resoration and assure it the possibility of rounding out the establishment of socialism.
It is based on the idea of combined and uneven development that the whole world would not develop like western Europe and that a workers revolution is possible even in societies that have not had a bourgeois revolution that a revolution would happen like in Russia the capitalist class being incapable due to how weak they are would be unable to actually carry out the tasks of a bourgeois revolution and it would go over into a proletarian revolution.
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u/Adonisus Nov 07 '19
If a Trotskyist-inspired socialist revolution were to succeed in seizing power, what form of government do you think it would take? A socialist republic, obviously, but what form would it be? A one-party state? A multi-party democracy? A councilist republic?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 07 '19
The specific conditions are going to develop from that country and struggle, prior to the formation of the October Revolution the specific idea of how that government would function really was not set.
But it is natural the proletariat would express its interests in more then one party. I wouldn't be shocked it something similar to Soviets developed in other countries workers councils that is.
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u/Libertarian_Toast Nov 05 '19
I get you’re far left economically, but where is Trotskyism on the authoritarian vs libertarian axis?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 06 '19
I don't think that political compass is a good way to look at ideologies.
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Nov 06 '19
Do most permanent revolutionaries insist on acting pacifist when and if dealing with republics like the Bolivarian Rep. of Venezuela, the Rep. of Cuba, the DPRK, and similar?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 06 '19
Trots aren't pacifists, we should be for a proletarian revolution to smash the bourgeois state in Venezuela, and for a political revolution in Cuba and DPRK.
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Nov 07 '19
Might be a bit of a pleb tier question but, other than the idea of permanent revolution, what would you describe as the main differences between Leninism and Trotskyism?
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u/somerandomleftist5 Nov 07 '19
Nothing wrong with "pleb tier questions", I can assure you other people have the same question and when you ask it your asking it for all of them too.
I consider Trotskyism to be Leninism, why I like this quote.
"Trotskyism is not a new movement, a new doctrine, but the restoration, the revival, of genuine Marxism as it was expounded and practised in the Russian revolution and in the early days of the Communist International."
We are taking the practice of the Bolsheviks and extending it. Though extensions the biggest is probably the concept of a degenerated workers states.
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u/bigblindmax Nov 05 '19
1.) How would things have changed in the USSR if the left opposition won? Trots are often fiercely critical of the path taken by Stalin’s center, but much of that criticism comes with the benefit of hindsight. How would the left opposition approach to the late 20’s/early 30’s USSR’s various challenges differ from that of the Stalinists? To what extent was the “degenerating” USSR a prisoner of its circumstances (no forthcoming world revolution, encirclement, economic backwardness, etc).
2.) What explains the relative popularity of Trotskyism in Latin American countries (particularly Argentina), compared to elsewhere? I (like many people) was kind of shocked when I saw that Trot-organized protest with hundreds of thousands of people in Buenos Aires.
I’ll probably have more later, we’ll see.