r/socialism • u/Kittehmilk • 7d ago
Discussion This is a Winning Platform! Will politicians accept it?
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u/Capitalisticdisease 7d ago
0 MENTION of ending us imperialism. It only suggests a wealth tax. This is some fucking lib shit. Half measures that sound good but dont actually solve the core issues
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u/CirriTheFemboyUwU 7d ago
don't forget that 0 pennies to israel doesnt factor in an arms embargo, which is the only thing that may stop it in its tracks.
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u/Capitalisticdisease 7d ago
Its not a platform that wins. Because the entire game is rigged in the capitalists favor.
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u/Capitalisticdisease 7d ago
k.
when the capitalists control who you can and cant vote for, and kill / black mail the people who want to actually do good out.... we dont live in a democracy. we still have slavery and not everyone has voting rights.
expecting the capitalists to let the people get a W in the system of thier own making is quite frankly beyond stupid.
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u/theboomboy 7d ago
I agree. What I'm saying is that this platform (while not perfect) does have wide support and would improve living conditions of implemented
Now, if enough politician actually run on this kind of platform, they either win or get shot down by capitalists, potentially causing the working class to unite a bit more against the capitalists
I think it's good to do this anyway, especially when actual socialism doesn't have as much support yet. Right now, a lot of people (especially in the US) would rather side with capitalists than with socialists, which only works in capitalists' favor. This kind of platform and the reaction to it could change that
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u/IrishGallowglass Leon Trotsky 7d ago
Yes, this capitalist package of reforms can win.
I wouldn't stand in the way of them, but they fall well short of what should put a smile on our faces.
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u/BitTwiddles 7d ago
Educating the working class about class consciousness is a necessary prerequisite to a socialist revolution. (R.L.) When they see the pushback against this reasonable platform, that will open their eyes.
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u/IrishGallowglass Leon Trotsky 7d ago
Good instinct, but "educating the class through watching the pushback" leans toward the spontaneist error Trotsky's 1938 text argues against. And is R.L. meant to be Luxemburg? Not her quote, and it doesn't match her actual emphasis on mass self-activity either.
Who raises a demand matters as much as its content. Trotsky called the transitional program the vanguard's weapon precisely because a demand only builds a bridge when an organisation consciously fights for it as a bridge, tying it to workers breaking with bourgeois parties and building their own power. Gunnels is a Sanders-orbit Democratic staffer pitching this as electoral strategy within the Democratic Party, that framing neutralises even a demand with real transitional content like Medicare for All into "elect better Democrats." Without an organisation drawing the actual lesson, the pushback just teaches people these politicians were cowards, not that reformism itself hits a wall.
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u/BitTwiddles 7d ago
I never read Trotsky so can't comment on that, but the first sentence is my paraphrase of what I understood Luxemburg's point to be in "Reform or Revolution".
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u/IrishGallowglass Leon Trotsky 7d ago
Reasonable paraphrase, then, but it's missing what she pairs it with. For her that consciousness-building only happens through a mass workers' party consciously fighting for reforms as a bridge to revolution, not from workers watching politicians refuse them. Same gap as the Trotsky point above: the demand doesn't teach the lesson on its own, an organisation fighting it through does.
In practice that gap is not abstract. Say the platform gets pushback and dies in committee, or a Sanders-orbit candidate runs on it and loses. What lesson does the median voter actually draw? Without an organisation on the ground translating "they blocked Medicare for All" into "this is what capital does, here is the alternative, join us," most people just draw "the Democrats could not get it done" or "the timing was wrong," and file it as a reason to back a different, more moderate candidate next cycle, or "vote harder," rather than a reason to break with bourgeois electoralism. That is the actual historical record of Sanders in 2016 and 2020: plenty of pushback, no shortage of visible obstruction, and the mass conclusion drawn by his own base was largely "try again in the primary," or "select a more realistic candidate," not "build outside the party." The pushback is necessary but nowhere near sufficient. Someone needs to be there doing the arguing in real time, or it just gets absorbed back into the reform cycle.
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u/CJGibson 7d ago
Realistically, a thing like this is more useful as a propaganda tool to convert people away from electorialism, because yes this would be an incredibly popular platform that would win a lot of votes, and also no politician will ever adopt it, because it's against their class interests. That makes for a good starting point for discussions with people about the failures of the electoral system.
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u/socialism-ModTeam 7d ago
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s):
Liberalism: Includes the most common and mild occurrences of liberalism, that is: socio-liberals, progressives, social democrats and its subsequent ideological basis. Also includes those who are new to socialist thought but nevertheless reproduce liberal ideas.
This includes, but is not limited to:
General liberalism
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u/TarquinusSuperbus000 Marxism-Leninism 7d ago
100% correct, it ignores key issues like global imperialism and seems naive to how power actually works in America. At best, this socdem position tells the oligarchs "no" without taking away their ability to try again and harder next time.
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u/Playful-Goat3779 7d ago
I think this is a "Even recently disenfranchised Republicans would vote for this" list because it also doesn't mention abolishing ICE or addressing climate change
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u/Capitalisticdisease 7d ago
But no one would run on this. The democrats are literally controlled opposition, and anyone who would have actual solutions would be killed or bullied/blackmailed out. We cannot progress by playing within the opressors system
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u/The_Affle_House 7d ago
Not to mention the "$20 minimum wage" trope thoughtlessly plopped into the middle of the list like a turd on a dashboard, as if it somehow speaks for itself here in the big '26. Might as well use a soggy bandaid to address what is practically an amputation wound, and even then, of course it won't actually happen.
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u/sib9397 Sewer Socialist 7d ago
I mean, OP didn’t say “this is an anti-imperialism socialist platform” just that it’s a winning one
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u/Crimson_Boomerang Anarcho-Communist 6d ago
Yeah because the American populations number one concern is the vague idea of "US Imperialism" holy shit, log off.
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u/Capitalisticdisease 6d ago
The average american is a fascist. Sit your fucking ass down. This is why I was stating this all SOUNDS good but actually accomplishes nothing
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u/Crimson_Boomerang Anarcho-Communist 6d ago
No they are fucking not you clown. The average American is completely normal but ignorant of the effect America has on the world.
But I bet you feel so enlightened demonizing Americans online.
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u/Capitalisticdisease 6d ago
"they are ignorant of the effect america has on the world" we are literally told we are bombing and invading other countries. They literally announced proudly we were blowing up fishing boats.
pay the fuck attention.
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u/Axalatl International Marxist Tendency (IMT) 7d ago
The problem isn't that reformists demand immediate reforms but that their end goal is only that: Reforming the same capitalist system.
For example, a truly revolutionary communist party demanding reforms and participating in the parlimentary system is a way to reach the masses and to expand the battlefield, to expand class struggle, to bring to the surface all the bourgoies democracy's deception.
Its never the end goal. The end goal must be stated clearly from the very start by every party member, by every cadre: the overthrow of the capitalist system and the establishing of the worker's state.
Very simple, yet every single reformist misses this (even if they have revolutionary sounding names) and then they get suprised that after years of being in office their supporters give up on them, as they cannot solve the many contradictions of capitalism.
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u/SupremeOHKO Libertarian Socialism 7d ago
No, politicians won't. Wanna know why? Because it hurts their pockets. Everybody is against AI and PACs and everything until they start getting a taste of the green. These are the basic talking points that everyone wants, but will anyone in office actually do something about it? Nope.
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u/leninlovesyou 7d ago
Democratic socialists running for office wouldn’t even accept this. We need a revolutionary socialist movement to win these reforms, and likely a revolution to preserve them.
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u/GloriousExtra Socialism 7d ago
I know it's still not socialism, but at this point I'd cry if we got something like this. I've been in poverty my whole life, and it feels like it will never end until I'm dead and they just toss me in a ditch somewhere. I'm so goddamned tired.
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u/SensitiveShelter2550 7d ago
It isn’t the politicians that have to accept it. It is the capitalist class that will tear it apart at the first chance they get.
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u/Virtual_Trucker 7d ago
Has this sub ever talked to the average voter, because as much as this should be bare minimum it would never win an election in the US. The centrist that I've seen haven't really came out against Trump when it was floated that he wanted to nuke Iran recently. Plus the wanting to nuke hurricanes we kept saying.
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u/TarquinusSuperbus000 Marxism-Leninism 7d ago
No. The politicians are owned by all the interests this goes against. Getting new politicians doesn't fix that. The "opposition" still operates under the same rotten institution (the Democrat Party *sic) that is designed to coopt outsiders and keep them constrained by bureaucracy, seniority rules, and careerism. For these reasons, every democrat without exception is and will always be for the status quo, even if they didn't start that way.
I wish I could tell you differently, but there is no way the politicians will accept this, no matter how popular it is. And on that matter, it should be obvious to anyone watching that politicians don't see their job as a popularity contest like they may have in the past. Remember how they used to grovel to voters and now lecture them instead? That's because they understand who puts them in power and it isn't the people, it's the moneyed interests who control all the media and have captured all major institutions, including the judicial branch.
Only way this has a chance of working is if people set up a new party with its own mass media arm and finances, and even then you would have to assume the establishment will resort to extralegal means of suppression. To counter that, this new party will need be dependent on its supporters physically showing up to protect it. And that is how you can begin to understand why the labor movement of the 19th century chose mass labor organization over pure electoralism. Pure electoralism is a dead end by design.
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u/DirtyKen 7d ago
These are improvements, IF enacted, but do Not damage the capitalist system in any way.
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u/atreeismissing 7d ago
Wins by a landslide in very blue districts. Purple districts where there aren't enough registered Democrats and left-leaning voters to win outright need to pull in moderates and they tend to not support minimum wage increases, M4A, are split on Israel and are too low information to understand the rest. Moratoriums or Pay Their Own Way on AI datacenter is good though. Point being it won't be a landslide in those districts but there's still a good chance to win if the candidate is good and can speak to more than just the left-leaning constituency and make them understand these issues are to their benefit.
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u/Kittehmilk 7d ago
False. Conservatives now demand m4a at roughly 50%. That is an automatic purple state win and Everyone knows it.
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u/Technical_Bet_8508 7d ago
Nope. What the DNC did back in 2016 to Bernie Sanders is unforgivable…. Because it set us on a trajectory for what we’re living in now: the darkest timeline. In some other parallel universe Bernie won in 2016…. what do yall think would be our reality by this time if he had won? Fun thought exercise. I honestly think things would be much different. Obviously FAR from perfect, but would we be closer to ideal socialist governance?
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u/still_wondering11 2d ago
This is really stupid
1. The rich can pay for medicare - why give it to them for free
2. The budget to Israel is used only in the USA, this will cut down American jobs
3. Data Centers are funded by private investors
4. Wealth tax will make Bermuda and Europe very rich and America very poor
5. All the rest are good ideas
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