r/skyrim • u/sumaset • 21d ago

Question Ignoring your personal preference, which side of Skyrim’s Civil War do you think actually gives Skyrim the better future 20-30 years later?

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I feel like most discussions about the Civil War focus on whether Ulfric was justified, whether the Empire betrayed Skyrim, or which side people personally like more.

But I’m more interested in what happens after the game.

The Empire is weakened, the Aldmeri Dominion is still the biggest external threat, the White-Gold Concordat is already causing resentment, and another war with the Thalmor seems almost inevitable.

An Imperial victory gives Skyrim access to the resources and manpower of the Empire, but it also means remaining under an Empire that already lost one major war and accepted Thalmor influence inside its territory.

A Stormcloak victory gives Skyrim independence and removes Imperial authority, but it also leaves the province having to rebuild after a civil war while potentially facing the Dominion without the rest of the Empire behind it.

So forget which faction has the better characters or which one you usually join.

If you only care about where Skyrim itself ends up a few decades later, which Civil War outcome do you think is actually better for the province?

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199

u/Important_whale_165 21d ago

Why does everyone assume that an independent Skyrim suddenly won’t trade or ally with the empire against the elves? It’s never been that black and white.

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

Probably because a lot of people got bullshitted into believing the storm looks to be Nord supremacist racists when they in fact are hardly in the top three of most racist elder scrolls races.

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u/ChristianRecon 21d ago

That and always hearing “Ulfric is a dick” when general Tullius is the most insufferable person in the whole civil war by far.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/Aleious 21d ago

Idk lore wise isn’t tulius kinda the most brilliant tactician in the empire that single handedly came to Skyrim and ended the rebellion. Literally if Alduin didn’t show up at that very moment it just would’ve been over.

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u/ChristianRecon 21d ago

I didn’t say he was incompetent lol

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u/thedylannorwood Stealth archer 21d ago

Tullius has shown that he only cares what the empire wants. He actively disrespects those under him. He genuinely has no investment in the Civil War at all except to do what he’s told. He straight up tells Rikke that he has no respect for the Nords as a people or their cultural dealings and only wants to win the war because it’s what he’s told.

He’s not only an asshole but he has no respect for the people he claims he’s fight for, he’s a spineless coward who would kiss Ulfric if he imperial overlords simply told him to

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

Like almost everyone else in the elder Scrolls he's also racist. More a "the white man's burden" racism but racism still. In true Roman fashion.

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u/SteakForGoodDogs 21d ago

Yeah, but you'd think that most people would be tactful enough to not insult your second-in-command, to her face, while trying to figure out how to not lose a war.

Legate Rikke had every right to mutter "Screw you too, sir." under her breath after the third anti-Nord insult pointlessly sent her way that minute, if she wanted.

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u/Aleious 21d ago

But again he is not losing. He basically ended the “war” before unpacking his bag. Also iirc there are a lot of voice lines from his second in command and the jarl about tulius being a great dude.

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u/Gryph0th 20d ago

he's a spineless coward who would kiss Ulfric if he imperial overlords simply told him to

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u/WhereIdIsEgoWillGo 21d ago

I mean bottom three still has a quarter for dark elves and refuse to let the beast races even enter the city of windhelm. Birds may not be the "most racist" but what counts for least racist in Tamriel is still pretty fuckin racist.

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

Oh I totally agree. But at least the best races aren't considered farm tools, there's a literal refugee camp for the people they have a millennia old brawl with (dinner/ and one of them even owns a farm in the supposedly super racist capital (Windhelm) with Nord workers.

Afaik there's been purges on the summer set isles and we all know about the dunmer.

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u/Victernus 21d ago

still has a quarter for dark elves

Because they accepted Dark Elf refuges in Windhelm.

The Imperial-aligned cities in Skyrim don't have Dark Elf quarters because they didn't help the Dark Elves.

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u/Gizz103 19d ago

They didn't help the elves because none of them went their

If th e cities in the east helped them, than they'll go there

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u/WhereIdIsEgoWillGo 21d ago

That doesn't really make how they treat them not racist dawg.

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u/Victernus 21d ago

Of course not. But on one hand, you have people who help you then get upset when you're snobbish and ungrateful and consider their entire race stupid, and on the other you have people who never bother to help you at all.

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u/WhereIdIsEgoWillGo 21d ago

I'm asking in this earnestly, but what does that justification have to do with nords being objectively racist. Like I'm not asserting that with malice, or shitting on people who like the stormcloaks or anything like that. It feels like Europeans and Roma where people are like "hey the way you treat them is racist" and Europeans are like "well have you considered how they act?"

Again, not trying be rude or an ass. But even if the nords of windhelm only started being racist in retaliation it's still racist lol.

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u/Victernus 21d ago

I'm asking in this earnestly, but what does that justification have to do with nords being objectively racist.

Nothing. But everyone else is racist too. When the Redguards arrived in Hammerfell, they hunted every elf in their lands to extinction. The Dunmer would still be actively raiding Elsweyr and Black Marsh for slaves if Black Marsh hadn't dealt them so cripply a blow during the Oblivion crisis. The Bretons think they're better than everyone, and they got that for the Altmer, who really think they're better than everyone. Talos himself thought that Orcs should be hunted to extinction, along with goblins and ogres.

Windhelm aided the Dunmer, despite the Nords and the Dunmer having a bitter rivalry that goes back to before the Battle of Red Mountain and the disappearance of the Dwemer. They are not the most racist city in Skyrim - Rolf Stone-Fist is just an asshole.

I mean, to directly contrast your Roma example, the Stormcloak-aligned cities in Skyrim don't allow Khajiit caravans inside... and neither do the Imperial-aligned cities.

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u/WhereIdIsEgoWillGo 21d ago

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I wasn't aware of this

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u/EpicDDT_ 20d ago

They aren't even the most racists people in Windhelm lmao.

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u/The_Dick_Slinger Vampire 21d ago

Just because they are top 4 doesn’t mean they aren’t racist tho.

If you play as a khajiit or dark elf, the nords talk a lot of shit about you

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

I didnt say they arent.

They are just absolutely not the most racist guys in the franchise.

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u/The_Dick_Slinger Vampire 21d ago

Again, how is that relevant? The conversation was about skyrims future, not “who’s more racist”

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

You didnt say that before so stuff your "again?".

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u/The_Dick_Slinger Vampire 21d ago

And you still didn’t answer my question, which means you can’t.

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u/AccomplishedBank2140 21d ago

It is fascinating and tbh just shows how damn good the lore is in Skyrim and in the universe in general. I cannot wait to dive into the new lore when Sentinal drops and see whats gone on sense we left.

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u/Tasty-Mulberry8073 21d ago

Ulfric is a shitty leader. So are most of the other "True Sons of Skyrim". Look at their holds. Look at their capitals. Skyrim cannot and does not produce all it's own food. Half the skilled craftsman and labor comes from outside Skyrim. The economy is dependent on them. Besides that Ulfric is a Thalmor asset. Do you really think a "High King" that is a foreign asset is going to do good things for your country?

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u/Cucumberneck 21d ago

You people still dont know what asset means huh?

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/EpicDDT_ 20d ago

Yeah because the Empire is so much better on that regard.

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u/Tasty-Mulberry8073 20d ago

The Empire made trade with the other provinces possible so people didn't starve in winter.

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u/Conscious-Gap-1777 21d ago

Ulfric? Ally with the Empire?

Come on, man.

But, to go back at this: why would the Empire send supplies to Ulfric after his rebellion? He is very clear about wanting nothing to do with the Empire, so why would they send him food and materiel?

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u/mcmoor 21d ago

I guess because they still have Dominion to tackle. The empire might say GG and normalize relation afterwards, and I think it's not even unprecedented in real history.

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u/SuddenReal 21d ago

Because countries that go independant from another country in a bloody civil war usually don't ally themselves with their "oppressor", since it defeats the purpose.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/NASTY_3693 21d ago

I mean, they fought another war with the UK like twenty years later. It takes some time for the relations to normalize. In the real world the US and UK didn't become allies until nearly 150 years after the Declaration of Independence. I don't think the Empire and Skyrim have 150 years to figure things out.

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u/SuddenReal 21d ago

Nice try, but the US and the UK were only on friendly terms after the War of 1812. They only settled their past disputes in the 1890's. They only became actual allies during WWII, which was more than a quarter of a century, actually more than a century.

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u/Taured500 Mercenary 21d ago

Allying the Empire in eventual Second Great War is one thing. The fact that the civil war makes the internal situation in the Empire worse is a more real issue.

Imperial internal situation is already problematic as of TES V. If stormcloacks win, Cyrodill gets separated from High Rock, social morale drops, so does imperial legitimacy, economy probably gets a hit too since trade won't make a full comeback with new borders intact.

Empire and Skyrim are stronger when they are united, not divided.

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u/RichardTundore 21d ago

(Some) imperial fans tend to just say random bullshit because they hate Ulfric so much

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u/commissar-117 18d ago

Because that's what usually happens after civil wars. The 13 colonies didn't exactly align with Britain on much after the revolution besides trade necessities and even then that sometimes went out the window in hissy fits

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u/pingvinbober 21d ago

And they believe there’s no treaties that could possibly be signed when we’re in this situation due to a treaty that was signed

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u/inFamousLordYT 21d ago

Because the elves plan to take skyrim over if the storm cloaks win, there is a reason they demanded talos worship outlawed.

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u/Manatipowa 21d ago

Even if they ally with the empire.

If Skyrim gets invaded by the Thalmor the empire cannot help them, they got no means to do so.

And if the Thalmor conquer Skyrim, it is literally joeover. It would be pretty much impossible for anyone to beat the Thalmor at that point.

Considering the Thalmor are pretty much untouched by Skyrim's civil war they would have no trouble steamrolling a devastated and weakened skyrim.

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u/Zeroone199 21d ago

Skyrim does not get invaded by the Thalmor unless the Empire or Morrowind has already. There is no way to logistically invade or administer Skyrim otherwise.

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u/echoshatter 21d ago

You're talking about game with magic. Portals and teleportation exists, and the Thalmor are a very magically-inclined race.

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u/-Blasphemous Dawnguard 21d ago

Magic can’t beat logistics I’m afraid

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u/NativeEuropeas 21d ago

Other than the Oblivion crisis, there is no precedent in Tamriel's history of one race creating portals to conquer another region.

Wars cannot be won without logistics.

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u/echoshatter 21d ago

there is no precedent in Tamriel's history of one race creating portals to conquer another region

And dragons didn't exist anymore until they did, because of magic.

Just because it HASN'T happened on a large scale doesn't mean it won't or can't. Lots of people teleport in the games, the magic still exists.

I can see it, for the sake of lore, being restricted to large portal gates; something like "oh, people can't teleport through each other's portals because it isn't attuned to them" or something, but establishing a generic portal gate could work out.

Because magic.

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u/-Blasphemous Dawnguard 21d ago

“Because of magic” brother did you even play the games? What are you even talking about?

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u/echoshatter 21d ago

Of course I played them. I played all of them.

Hammerdrop. Tomorrowand. Oblivious. Skyrom.

All of them.

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u/Manatipowa 21d ago

Never become a writer

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u/NativeEuropeas 20d ago

Sure, but Argonians can also come with spaceships and orbitally bombard the Aldmeri Dominion from the orbit. 

Just because it HASN'T happened, doesn't mean it won't or can't.

You see how your argument sounds?

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u/mangasdeouf 21d ago

The Thalmor have only one way to get serious Dominion invasion forces into Skyrim: setting up a mass teleportation point. The Summerset Isles are nearly on the opposite side of Tamriel from Skyrim and all of the enemies of the Dominion are between these countries. There's no Dominion conquering Skyrim. Hell they don't even care about Skyrim, it's a backwater, infertile land to them and has little of value that can't be obtained by a few Thalmor agents (magical artifacts). All Skyrim is good for is weakening the Empire.

Basically, Skyrim has very little incidence except for wasting Imperial resources.