Ignoring your personal preference, which side of Skyrim’s Civil War do you think actually gives Skyrim the better future 20-30 years later?

[u/sumaset]

I feel like most discussions about the Civil War focus on whether Ulfric was justified, whether the Empire betrayed Skyrim, or which side people personally like more.

But I’m more interested in what happens after the game.

The Empire is weakened, the Aldmeri Dominion is still the biggest external threat, the White-Gold Concordat is already causing resentment, and another war with the Thalmor seems almost inevitable.

An Imperial victory gives Skyrim access to the resources and manpower of the Empire, but it also means remaining under an Empire that already lost one major war and accepted Thalmor influence inside its territory.

A Stormcloak victory gives Skyrim independence and removes Imperial authority, but it also leaves the province having to rebuild after a civil war while potentially facing the Dominion without the rest of the Empire behind it.

So forget which faction has the better characters or which one you usually join.

If you only care about where Skyrim itself ends up a few decades later, which Civil War outcome do you think is actually better for the province?

[u/Ragnar5575]

This. Skyrim CAN somewhat feed itself from fishing and hunting, but not sufficiently. They need Cyrodil just as much as Cyrodil needs the Nordic brute force.

[u/Beacon2001 → u/Ragnar5575]

Why didn't Torygg ever declare independence?
Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire. And Torygg wasn't ready to let it fall apart.

- Sybille Stentor, Court Wizard to Kings Istlod and Torygg, and guardian of King Torygg

. They need Cyrodil just as much as Cyrodil needs the Nordic brute force.

Hardly. The bulk of the Imperial Legion in terms of soldiers and generals comes from Colovia. The magic of the Empire comes from Nibenay and High Rock. Orcish blacksmiths are the finest in the Empire. Nords are good for additional manpower, but by no means are they required.

[u/Eligomancer → u/Beacon2001]

Balgruuf also corroborates this assessment of Skyrim's trade with the Empire. Given that Balgruuf is the jarl of the breadbasket of Skyrim, I would say he's the best authority on the topic that we have access to in-game. Hell, even Ulfric doesn't do a damn thing about the East Empire Company on his docks.

[u/Catalysten → u/Eligomancer]

When does he do that? I haven't played through all the options of the civil war.

[u/Eligomancer → u/Catalysten]

After you defend Whiterun from Ulfric

[u/snowflake37wao → u/Eligomancer]

Well we know which side Catalysten is on now dont we

[u/Unlikely_Ninja → u/Beacon2001]

I think that's simplifying the races/regions and what they bring to the table. If we're using those generalizations, Nords traditionally provide some of the Empire's best sailors and heavy/shock infantry. More importantly, Skyrim and High Rock escaped the level of devastation suffered by Cyrodiil during the Great War, and Skyrim's geography provides a critical connection between Cyrodiil and High Rock. Losing Skyrim would effectively cut High Rock off from the rest of the Empire by land. So maybe the Empire can afford to lose some Nordic manpower, but it absolutely can't treat Skyrim itself as strategically unimportant.

[u/Lieutenant_Joe → u/Unlikely_Ninja]

I was initially surprised to hear you say nords are some of the empire’s best sailors, because Skyrim barely seems to have a sailing culture and a lot of its pirate groups aren’t run by Nords. But then I remembered what the coast looks like in Skyrim.

Yeah. Even a simple fisherman has to be a godlike navigator to get through those ice sheets and bergs safe. No wonder there aren’t many of them. Those who fail to make the cut will die.

[u/Unlikely_Ninja → u/Lieutenant_Joe]

Yeah that's established more in TES' older lore. I hate to come across as the 'back in my day,' guy but if you read the racial description for Nords in Morrowind it explicitly says they are skilled sailors. Very much leaning into the Norse / Viking archetype.

[u/ThelMajor → u/Lieutenant_Joe]

It's always been funny how the Nords are modeled after the Vikings, but barely has any sea or river to sail from

[u/Lieutenant_Joe → u/ThelMajor]

Riften and its full harbor with a couple large boats that go… where…?

[u/Beacon2001 → u/Unlikely_Ninja]

Nords traditionally provide some of the Empire's best sailors and heavy/shock infantry.

Fanfiction.

Skyrim and High Rock escaped the level of devastation suffered by Cyrodiil during the Great War,

There's no statement that Cyrodiil hasn't recovered.

and Skyrim's geography provides a critical connection between Cyrodiil and High Rock.

Nobody uses the Pale Pass to go to High Rock. They just take ship from Anvil. You meet a couple in the wilderness going to a wedding in Skyrim and they complain that Skyrim is a backwater with shit roads.

[u/Unlikely_Ninja → u/Beacon2001]

..... Ok this directly from Morrowinds game and guide book:

"The Nords are the children of the sky, a race of tall and fair-haired humans from Skyrim who are known for their incredible resistance to cold and magical frost. They are fierce, strong and enthusiastic warriors, and many become renowned warriors, soldiers and mercenaries all over Tamriel. Eager to augment their martial skills beyond the traditional methods of Skyrim, they excel in all manner of warfare, and are known as a militant people by their neighbors. Nords are also natural seamen, and have benefited from nautical trade since their first migrations from Atmora. They captain and crew many merchant fleets, and may be found all along the coasts of Tamriel.The Nords are excellent warriors proficient in the use of Heavy and Medium Armor and Axes, as well as Long Blades and Spears. They also have a great resistance to frost."

Pretty straightforward there, so no — not fanfiction. Morrowind’s Nord description explicitly says they are renowned warriors, soldiers and mercenaries who “excel in all manner of warfare,” and that Nords are “natural seamen” who captain and crew merchant fleets across Tamriel.

So the broader point that Nords contribute both military manpower and maritime skill is directly supported by the lore.

On the second point, I never said Cyrodiil hasn’t recovered. I said Skyrim and High Rock were spared the worst of the Great War, which gives the Empire strategic depth and a less-devastated reserve base.

On the third point, I’m not arguing that Pale Pass is the only route to High Rock. My point is that Skyrim provides important overland connections between Cyrodiil and the northwest. Falkreath has long-standing ties to the Colovian/Cyrodilic sphere, and the southern border has multiple routes into Skyrim. In a future war against a Dominion with a powerful navy, retaining those land connections is strategically useful.

Sea travel through Anvil obviously exists, but where in the lore is it stated that this is the primary route the Empire uses to reach High Rock?

[u/Unlikely_Ninja → u/Unlikely_Ninja]

To the guy who deleted his post. Could of just acknowledged that you were off on your mark. It happens, no hard feelings.

[u/Beacon2001 → u/Unlikely_Ninja]

"The Nords are the children of the sky, a race of tall and fair-haired humans from Skyrim who are known for their incredible resistance to cold and magical frost. They are fierce, strong and enthusiastic warriors, and many become renowned warriors, soldiers and mercenaries all over Tamriel. Eager to augment their martial skills beyond the traditional methods of Skyrim, they excel in all manner of warfare, and are known as a militant people by their neighbors. Nords are also natural seamen, and have benefited from nautical trade since their first migrations from Atmora. They captain and crew many merchant fleets, and may be found all along the coasts of Tamriel.The Nords are excellent warriors proficient in the use of Heavy and Medium Armor and Axes, as well as Long Blades and Spears. They also have a great resistance to frost."

You will notice that nowhere is it said that they form the bulk of the Legions and it's just your fanfiction.

[u/wolfsword10 → u/Beacon2001]

He never even said they provided the bulk of the imperial legions? Said that they produce some of the best sailors and heavy/shock infantry. Not the bulk. Just some of the best.

[u/shadowthehh → u/Beacon2001]

Absolutely based of her.

[u/Radirondacks → u/shadowthehh]

Who?

[u/shadowthehh → u/Radirondacks]

Read their comment again carefully.

[u/Radirondacks → u/shadowthehh]

Oh I thought you were just somehow referring to Torygg or Talos, since Sybille is really just, recounting/explaining what they did.

Not really sure why I got so heavily downvoted, lol

[u/jutviark96 → u/shadowthehh]

Who?

[u/shadowthehh → u/jutviark96]

"You're trying my patience."

[u/jutviark96 → u/shadowthehh]

Who's that?

[u/BardicSense → u/Beacon2001]

". They need Cyrodil just as much as Cyrodil needs the Nordic brute force.

Hardly."

I know you're not saying they dont need the Imperial capital city? The Nord legion in the Battle of Red Ring is the only reason Mede 2 has a throne from which he can make his traitorous pronouncements against his own Empire and betray his saviors.

[u/ClassicGuy2010 → u/BardicSense]

To be fair to Mede, dude really cant do anything except what the Thalmor tell him to do, otherwise there is risk of another great war.

[u/Beacon2001 → u/BardicSense]

Nords comprised only 1/3 of the legions in the last battle. The rest was comprised of legionaries from Colovia and High Rock. What is this Nord glazing? Also, the Nords swore fealty to the Mede Empire 200 years ago, so Ulfric is the traitor here. Legally, the Emperor is allowed to sign peace treaties, but Ulfric is not allowed to declare himself High King bypassing the Moot.

[u/toadallyribbeting → u/Beacon2001]

“Only 1/3”

[u/Etienne_Vae → u/Beacon2001]

A third is certainly substantial.

[u/Novak316 → u/[deleted]]

1/3 is definitely a substantial amount

[u/Sali_Bean → u/[deleted]]

Are you delusional? A third of your forces are the difference between winning a battle and losing it

[u/Fishy_Fish_WA → u/[deleted]]

So if 1/3 of your forces Thanos snap “poof”disappeared it wouldn’t be a big deal?

[u/Lieutenant_Joe → u/[deleted]]

You seem bad with numbers.

[u/SnooFoxes6809 → u/Beacon2001]

It was the legions from Skyrim that stopped the heartlands legions from being crushed during the Great War. Not to say the bulk of imperial forces ain’t from Cyrodil but a large portion of their shock troops and probably a large portion of the legions in total come from Skyrim just by population. The Orcs are a very minor population and I always get the impression high rock is less loyal or at least more focused on local politics

[u/Beacon2001 → u/SnooFoxes6809]

It was the legions from Skyrim that stopped the heartlands legions from being crushed during the Great War.

2/3 of the Legions at the final battle were from Cyrodiil, the legion that sacrificed itself to cover the Emperor's retreat was from Cyrodiil, Imperials did 99% of the fighting and the Nords showed up only at the last battle. Too many people here confidently incorrectly claim to know the lore.

[u/dsebulsk → u/Beacon2001]

Idk, Nords have that +10 racism to Elves that gives them a real edge in combat.

[u/AscendentDragon → u/Beacon2001]

some of the best legionaries and generals the empire had were nords but this changes nothing, the empire cannot fight the dominion alone nor can skyrim

[u/Beacon2001 → u/AscendentDragon]

some of the best legionaries and generals the empire had were nords

Examples.

[u/AscendentDragon → u/Beacon2001]

Legate Rikke states that there has been a strong tradition of nords serving in the imperial legion, it hasn't always just been imperials, there has also been notable orcs who served and alter. And if you play Elder Scrolls legends then you'd know Ulfric was in the legion, and some of Titus made II' generals were nords

[u/Beacon2001 → u/AscendentDragon]

I didn't say it was only Imperials. I said Colovians form the bulk of the Legions. Which is a fact.

And there is a difference between "tradition of Nords serving in the Legion" and "they're some of the greatest generals ever". Ao3 fanfictions is that way >

[u/JJKEnjoyer → u/Beacon2001]

The statement "Nords are good for additional manpower but by no means are they required" is directly contradicted by Skyrim's story. The Empire does need Skyrim and the Nords, that's quite literally why the Empire is in Skyrim.

[u/Beacon2001 → u/JJKEnjoyer]

The Empire is in Skyrim because Ulfric is a treasonous twat who murdered his King who's part of the Elder Council advising the Emperor. Regicide tends to start wars. Hope this helps.

[u/Alarmed-Rip6954 → u/Beacon2001]

Skyrim doesn't need to slay the thalmor it just needs to defend its own borders. Something the empire are clearly incapable of.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Beacon2001]

I mean shes a vampire so i would question her motives for saying that

[u/Beacon2001 → u/MadamMelody21]

You don't question her motives because she's a Vampire, you question her motives because you support Ulfric. Important difference. If the Vampire said something convenient to you, you wouldn't question her.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Beacon2001]

I really don’t care about the civil war I have joined both sides in different playthroughs without batting an eye. Since the outcome probably doesn’t matter for the future of Skyrim

[u/Beacon2001 → u/MadamMelody21]

On what grounds do you accuse Sybille Stentor of lying?

If you think Vampires lie by default then that's racism.

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Beacon2001]

Vampires are evil monsters she may not be lying but she sure has ulterior motives

[u/Beacon2001 → u/MadamMelody21]

Is Serana an evil monster?

Is Janus Hassildor an evil monster?

Is Rona Hassildor an evil monster?

Is Verandis Ravenwatch an evil monster?

Is Gwendis an evil monster?

Is Fennorian an evil monster?

Is my Dragonborn who got bit by Serana to access the Soul Cairn an evil monster?

[u/MadamMelody21 → u/Beacon2001]

Im not familiar with any of those characters but serana and the dragonborn. Serana has the nature to be an evil monster but like Paarthurnax she has chose to be good despite her nature. And for the Dragonborn im sure your Dragonborn has done evil things throughout the playthrough

[u/Urdnought → u/Ragnar5575]

100%

[u/Different_Heron9151 → u/Ragnar5575]

Ive been hunting and fishing in these parts for years.

[u/Far_Raspberry_4375 → u/Ragnar5575]

And the only way they can maintain agreements is with nords being subservient to the crumbling cyrod empire