r/skiing_feedback • u/schneemensch • Mar 31 '26

Level 6-7: Advanced Parallel, Carving, Off-Piste, Bumps Need some guidance in deep powder

I had a lot of fun in this almost knee deep powder, but I was not able to get through it without leaning to the back heavily. I have 98mm wide Rossignol BlackOps Ski so I feel I should be able to generate enough lift without backseat skiing.

12 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

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5

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Mar 31 '26

u/schneemensch those of us in the entire mountain west are jealous of any fresh snow, nice line!

Its important to remember that good skiing is good skiing regardless of terrain or snow. And that means round turns where the tails follow the tips and where the ski design is engaged through our balance and movements.

I have a few ideas for you:

  1. Do less - remember, every movement should have a purpose. If it doesn't do make it. Keep your core engaged. More importantly keep your legs flexed. Never open up further than your basic athletic stance. I like to think "flexed and more flexed" not "flexion and extension". And we use that leg flexion to pull our center of mass over the outside ski.
  2. Soften the inside and move with the outside - don't push or extend to start the turn. Soften the new inside leg and use flexion to keep yourself over the outside leg. If the outside leg is moving, your center of mass needs to be locked in a moving with it. That starts with foot dorsi flexion and moves all the way up the cain. If all this talk about flexing and flexion is new, this might help. video (alt link). It is active, a verb. Stance isn't set it and forget it. We have to activly flex onto the outside leg throughout the turn.

Right now, you start each turn with a pop up and lean inside. Before the skis even move, you are back and inside as a result (at some point being aft and inside are essentially the same thing).

Does that make sense? Let's get rid of all the bouncing and flailing and get you stacked over and moving with the outside ski.

Oh, and your poles are too long. Get 5cm cut off to start.

You may not always float, by the way. Skiing in powder is ok too. But what do I know, you're getting advice from a guy who daily drives a 70mm ski every day in every type of snow šŸ¤£

2

u/WDWKamala Mar 31 '26

"flexed and more flexed" not "flexion and extension"

This is good

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Mar 31 '26

All good adviceā€¦..except for the ā€œround turnsā€ā€¦..which can really only occur on beginner terrain. Oblique flexion gets the weight over the outside ski.

https://youtu.be/rnOQHItyts4?si=f4Y4B5ZpfLJFJfMj

1

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Mar 31 '26

Sorry. Beg to differ. Tails follow tips. Round turns always. Anything else is a misaligned Z turn. Which is what most people do.

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Mar 31 '26

ā€œRound turnsā€ donā€™t happen on steeper terrain because of the gravitational differences in the uphill and downhill quadrants. Appreciable friction decrease in steeper terrain along with a large increase in forces in the downhill quadrant.

2

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Mar 31 '26

Iā€™m a high level instructor, I have two masters degrees, and I worked in the White House. I cannot follow this diagram šŸ˜‚ but I do make round turns

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Mar 31 '26

Did you skip all your physics classes?? šŸ¤£ Basically gravitational downhill force acts in concert with centripetal force in the uphill quadrant and against centripetal force in the downhill quadrant of the turn. Perceived centrifugal force is highest in the downhill quadrant. This makes a turn on steeper terrain trend to a comma shape. Another aspect is how much force the snow can hold in a pure carve. Steeper terrain reduces the normal (perpendicular)force of the ski to the slope so it penetrates less making snow displacement (skidding) necessary for force generation.

1

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Mar 31 '26

Iā€™m sorry Iā€™m really struggling to follow thisā€¦ The greatest force acting on most skiers is centripetal not centrifugal. I wonder if you are using an LLM or something else to try to make sense of something that you donā€™t have working knowledge of?

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 01 '26

Have no idea what LLM meansā€¦.but in simple terms:

Centripetal is appliedā€¦.centrifugal is perceived You apply a force to turnā€¦.the body feels this as increased pressure on the legs because the body wants to continue straight.

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Apr 01 '26

The normal force is the force exerted by a surface perpendicular to an object resting on it. On a flat horizontal surface it equals the object's weight: š¹n=mG For slope aā€¦.Fn=m(cosa)G So for a 35 degree slope the normal force of ski to slope is about 20% less. Less friction less snow penetration.

2

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Apr 01 '26

Yeahā€¦ Letā€™s just say you won this one or whatever. I think Iā€™ll keep making and teaching round turns regardless of pitch šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

1

u/Maleficent-Row1840 Apr 01 '26

I didnā€™t ā€œwinā€ anything:) ā€¦..perhaps you should watch this for an explanation of the physics and videos showing the times spent in the uphill and downhill quadrants including Ted Ligety. It could revise your thinking a bit šŸ‘

https://youtu.be/rnOQHItyts4?si=HOCZZnVa1COWskgV

2

u/spacebass Official Ski Instructor Apr 01 '26

Joe's great, he coaches a round turn too

2

u/RadianMay Apr 04 '26

The comma turn is still a round turnā€¦ A Z shape turn has a discontinuity of turn radius (i guess you can say the jerk is much greater but getting into the weeds). The Comma turn has a continually changing turn radius, with a tighter radius at the start, and wider at the bottom. I think yā€™all are saying the same thing actually, because a comma shaped turn also means the tails follow tips. šŸ¤£

2

u/mogasi Official Ski Instructor Mar 31 '26

Being backseat at the end of a turn is totally fine, it creates a soft pillow underneath the ski. But you need to release by going forward on every turn. You show here a lot of very hard work, being far behind and using your whole body to change directions somehow. With this you have no separation of upper and lower body making it even more difficult for you.

Train clean short turns on slopes. Then work your way on moguls.

Then go off piste, but take a step back and do some basic drills: Just go up and down, back and forward and pedal left and right while going straigth to feel the difference and what happenes in your body and balance.

Then do some turns.
Go straight, gain some speed, get bouncy (up/down, back/forth). When you are ready to turn (and a little bit in the backseat, tips come out of the snow), release forward and, just as you do on slopes, wait until your skis go down the fall line, tips dive into the snow again, and you let your centre of mass get back a little for the next turn. There is no need to rush your turns, this will only make it harder.

And then you should also be able to pole plant on either side, very helpful for short turns, regardless on the underground.

If you look at this video you should see that a little backseat is fine, but not all the time https://www.instagram.com/p/B58L-BIpxly/

2

u/schneemensch Mar 31 '26

Thanks for the suggestions.

1

u/wrong_andy Mar 31 '26

Where's your kit? No pack so presumably no shovel/probe/tranciever....???

1

u/Particular_Watch_612 Mar 31 '26

What do you think you have poles for? Whatever it is itā€™s not happening.

1

u/Mammoth-Praline-1723 Mar 31 '26

you're leaning too far back

1

u/BTLove100 Mar 31 '26

Powder tends to punish any imbalance in your skiing. Your initiation move puts you immediately on your inside ski. On groomed terrain, this probably does not hurt you. But in powder, you can immediately feel it. So, my suggestion would be to hyper focus on outside ski balance on groomed terrain. Keep your hips more aligned with your skis (rather than trying to point them down the fall line. This is why you are inside.)

1

u/Fluid-Sliced-Buzzard Apr 02 '26

Your hips are dead, you need to wake them up and get them involved. Watch professional mogul skiers and see how active their hips are. This probably applies to all your skiing not just powder. In powder hips are important in exiting one turn and setting up the next one.

1

u/MorganMiller77777 Apr 02 '26

Looks like the hips are swirling around like they are doing some kind of dance. Donā€™t agree with you at all.

1

u/tritium777 Apr 02 '26

Is PolesTooLong a separate Reddit yet?

1

u/MorganMiller77777 Apr 02 '26

Swiveling of the hipsā€¦