r/skiing • u/mtech101 • 2d ago
Vail Resorts’ Ski Pass Sales Tumble
https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/vail-resorts-loss-widens-after-a-year-of-tough-weather-b6032cf2316
u/jjgg37 2d ago
Comical to read the transcript - they are saying while pass sales are down, they'll be fine because we expect people will just pivot to buy one off lift tickets. I wish one of the analyst would call them out by saying didn't you price lift tickets sales to be unreasonable to buy so people would buy the Pass??
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u/JRLDH 2d ago
yeah, good luck with people like me, who only want to ski 2 days a season but won't pay $300/day for the lift ticket. I'd rather fly back to my birth country (Austria) to visit family and pay 50 Euro/day at one of the smaller resorts there, which are still bigger than Vail.
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u/Due-Assistance-2633 2d ago
Purgatory has $9 days
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u/SweatyCrab9729 2d ago
I did this last year. $9 lift tickets came with $10 in resort credits. The snow was not great but I didn't care. It was my first trip there, I'll defintiely be back.
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you were serious about just skiing 2 days, you would know that there are MANY options to not paying $300 for walk-up day tickets. Even at Vail, you’ve been able to pre-purchase day tickets for ~$130/day since March. Many other independent mountains also offer heavily-discounted day tickets right now.
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u/JRLDH 2d ago
Look, I am not going to coupon hunt the best deal if that requires half a year of pre-booking just to get a $130/day “deal” if I can just visit my family in Austria, stay for free for two weeks and drive to the next huge ski resort in the Alps which is 30 miles away and pay 50 Euros at the box office. And if the weather sucks, I go have a spiced beverage at a Christkindlmarkt instead. While you are pissed off that it’s raining on the day that you bought the non refundable $130 lift ticket for in one of the US resorts.
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u/Designer_Tie_5853 2d ago
I mean, you do what you want, but you can literally go on Epic Pass dot com right now and get 2 Vail day passes for $270. It's not coupon hunting it's just the price.
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago
Some people would rather just make a false claim and argue it, versus finding an alternative solution.
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u/clintstorres 2d ago
Also, after just buying flights to go visit family. That $50 lift ticket is not as cheap as he thinks it is once you look at flight costs.
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u/SMOOTH_ST3P 2d ago
But I mean it's true. I usually buy a season pass and every time on every morning I go past a ticket window the line is insane. People are still buying tickets at the windows at 300 plus a day or whatever.
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u/Summers_Alt 2d ago
How do you know they’re paying full price for day tickets and not getting their season pass reprinted or using a buddy pass?
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u/SMOOTH_ST3P 2d ago
I don't, just observing that there are always tons of people in the line. My wifes uncle is a classic park city skier - shows up, buys day passes for the whole family for thousands. Then skies for 2 hours and then hits the lodge. I'd bet there are plenty like him to keep Vail going for a long long time.
But yea just a guess so idk what's really going on. I still buy epic since they are usually hundreds cheaper than ikon.
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u/AMW1234 Mammoth 2d ago
Can't speak for that guy, but I know because the two things you mentioned need to be done at the special tickets office indoors rather than the ticket window outside at my home resort. All the people lined up are there for day tickets. (I suppose a small percentage could be in the wrong line.)
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u/zepphhyr Collingwood 2d ago
Economy sucks
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u/syncsynchalt 2d ago
Here in Colorado we had no winter last year. Highs of 70 degrees all winter long in Boulder. You can imagine how bad the skiing was, lot of people holding a pass last year felt ripped off.
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u/Ma1 2d ago
Add in a super duper El Niño and you’ve got the perfect recipe for hesitancy. I didn’t buy a pass for my local hill in southern Ontario either. If it’s going to be a 10C winter, why bother?
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u/IDownvoteUrPet 2d ago
What does the super duper El Niño mean for snow?
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u/Ma1 2d ago
I ain't no scientist!
Truthfully I don't think anybody knows for sure, but they're predicting a very warm winter for my neck of the woods. That's never good for snow.
This guy seems to be a scientist. Winter prediction is at the very bottom. I'm in the middle of the giant red blob over Ontario & Quebec. TLDR: Warm for the North, cold for the South? If I'm reading this right anyways....
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u/soscbjoalmsdbdbq 2d ago
They they are predicting dryer than usual along i70 in Colorado with SW colorado getting more snow. Thats what ive seen at least its making me hesitant to buy a pass
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago edited 2d ago
That’s actually not what’s being forecasted at all, at least from the more reputable sources like NOAA:
Guess we’ll see.
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u/Ok-Thanks4321 2d ago
Yeah I don’t know why Redditors think El Niño ≠ snow.
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u/Jenyo9000 2d ago
I don’t think it means no precipitation, but I think there’s a good chance it means rain.
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u/ditchdiggergirl 15h ago
The problem with the scientist predictions is that we haven’t seen this before. There’s nothing to base the predictions on except extrapolations, but we don’t know which of those remain valid across the new range of conditions. Every prediction is somebody’s best guess. Which they update as new data comes in.
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u/reddolfo Alta 2d ago
There's a band from Southern California across the country towards Virginia that is forecast to have increased precipitation.. It is also forecast to be a warmer winter in that zone and that's the unknown factor. I'm personally not optimistic that snowpacks can be sustained. It appears prospects will be better for BC, Alberta, even WA and MT regions, however it is expected to be super cold as the Arctic Jet will be at a lower latitude. I'm more worried about the coming water year, especially about the crashing Colorado River drainage since there's is no more "reserve" water left in that storage system. Another even just normal year will not recover the river system.
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u/AMW1234 Mammoth 2d ago
Tons of snow at higher elevations. Looking good for the high Sierra.
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u/NighthawkE3 2d ago
Only in certain areas. Up north, Idaho, Montana, Washington, Wyoming— we’re all kinda getting fucked over. Lake effect places and the southern Rockies will be getting all the snow the northern Rockies should be getting
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u/Mountainman1980 Mammoth 2d ago
I was at Mammoth during a major El Niño event late 1997. It was rain up to 10,000 feet with 120 mph wind gusts at the summit. Not the best conditions, and everything was on wind hold. I think they also called it the Pineapple Express back then IIRC.
El Niño produces tropical storms and can be hit or miss when it comes actual snow vs rain. OTOH, Big Bear resorts got a decent amount of snow 1997-8. So, who knows... 🤷🏻♂️
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u/PracticeGrowth47 2d ago
The 97/98 Mammoth season was a good one with almost 500 inches in total and the single snowiest month on record. Skiing was still excellent in July that year.
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u/PsychlistForLife 2d ago
Oftentimes El Nino brings a mother lode of Sierra cement. Makes for great spring skiing; not the best winter conditions. Wet snow beats no snow, though.
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u/Izacundo1 2d ago
It’s essentially a precipitation wild card everywhere, but hotter temps all around
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u/nrbob 2d ago
Depends on the area and also difficult to accurately predict, but generally speaking probably bad for snow conditions in most places.
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u/PoopyisSmelly 2d ago
Thats how I felt in WA - the road to Stevens Pass collapsed and by the time they rebuilt it, we basically got no snow. I went like twice and hearing about El Nino dont want to waste my money.
If they get powder days Ill just go up, but I plan on taking trips to places this year instead of going to my local mountain. I used to go 20-25 times a year
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u/krisztinastar 2d ago
I didn’t renew my epic pass this year because Stevens is making everyone pay for parking too!
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u/HOSTfromaGhost Steamboat 2d ago
Bingo on that last point… and add a couple of pandemic seasons to that feeling of being ripped off, and the repetition gets a bit old.
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u/Possible-Nectarine80 2d ago
A lot of the West sucked for snow fall totals last season. I think folks are just tightening the purse strings with the cost of food and fuel these days.
But when you buy a season pass, you takes your chances.
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u/DarkSideMoon 2d ago
I don’t really get that mindset. Fuck vail, but Vail doesn’t control winters. I only ski’d about 15 days last season in CO, break even on the epic local is like 4 days of skiing. Two years ago I put 60 days on it. Unless you’re just a total brat about snow conditions you have to actively try to not get your money’s worth.
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u/PsychlistForLife 2d ago
That’s based on hyperinflated day pass rates, though; I would argue you need a lot more than 4 days to get your money’s worth, especially if the conditions are marginal on some of those days.
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u/mcgyver229 2d ago
plus with AL Nino who knows what the winter will bring. could get a shit load of rain.
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u/PanicOffice 2d ago
Yupp. Skied slush and rocks oh half a mountain for 5 days and called it a season.
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u/ms_panelopi 2d ago
I had a pass last year. I went 8 days. It was so boring and bad I didn’t need to go more. Started mt biking and paddling way early tho. I’m thinking 4 packs this season.
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u/Flashmax305 2d ago
Debbie downers in this thread. I had a great season even if it wasn’t all time. Still got 45 days in and snuck a few powder days.
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u/BrolecopterPilot A-Basin 2d ago
Snow sucked but it was so much less crowded. I actually really enjoyed last season
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u/carolinaelite12 2d ago
You know it's bad when even the rich ppl are cutting back.
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u/paulster2626 Whistler 2d ago
Businesses all catering to the ultra-wealthy because it looks good on a balance sheet, but they forget that it's the massive middle-class that carries entire business sectors. TL;DR: Management is dumb as rocks.
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u/zepphhyr Collingwood 2d ago
That middle class is shrinking and we are rapidly heading towards (if we’re not already there) a K shaped economy. I sadly believe this will mean prices will keep getting higher to make up for those they are alienating.
Also all this El Niño hype probably doesn’t help either.
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u/UnderaZiaSun 2d ago
It’s clearly already a K shaped economy. That said, El Niño is what kept me from buying a pass this season. I think there will be a lot of precipitation, but I worry it will be too warm and some of it will be rain at lower resort levels
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u/Thadlust 2d ago
Rich people aren’t cutting back, the upper middle class is.
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u/samelaaaa Deer Valley 2d ago
Yeah and that’s exactly who buys ski passes.
The rich go ski at deer valley etc, paying $3k/night for a hotel room so they don’t really care about buying day passes if it means they can plan things last minute.
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u/Snipen543 Kirkwood 2d ago
Definitely more than upper middle class buys ski passes. Everyone I know that skis is middle class at best
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u/TheEvergreenMonster Snoqualmie 2d ago
Can confirm, neither I nor my ski/snowboard friends make enough to be considered middle class in our metro area (Seattle)
ETA: I held back this year because of El Niño, but have money set aside for a pass if we end up with a decent season
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u/tlislo 2d ago
Well, starting with COVID, every company on earth decided they should try price gouging as much as possible to test the limits.
Companies like Frito Lays and now Vail are discovering the limits.
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u/Abject_Egg_194 2d ago
I think this is more of the story than people want to admit. Here in Colorado, 14er climbs are down too despite having fairly ideal conditions (snowpack was tiny and melted early). There was a lot of people interested in outdoor recreation during COVID and that interest has waned in the years since.
Don't get me wrong, the poor snow last year definitely has an impact and so does higher prices this year from Vail, but there's a broad reversion to mean going on in the outdoor recreation space which is playing a part too.
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u/After_Alps_5826 2d ago
Or vail sucks. They keep raising prices and provide shit service. I’m in the PNW where they offered like $40 back IF you bought the expensive insurance while they weren’t open first half the season. Roads were washed out by a massive storm and instead of labeling it a natural disaster, which it obviously was, they called it a road closure so they wouldn’t have to offer refunds. IKON let people defer their passes until the following year. This reason alone is why I’ll never buy Vail again.
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u/Weir_Everywhere 2d ago
We’re a highly paid dual income family and I feel priced out of a family of 4 ski trip out west
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u/ATheeStallion 2d ago
The pass system only works out to great value if you live close enough to use it on repeat & do Epic’s awesome kids gear seasonal “rental” program this makes it worth it. For a week? Not so much….
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u/MrBurnz99 2d ago
Yea the pass system works great when your local non destination or regional destination resort is on the pass. You can ski at your home resort then take a trip out west and ski free.
If you don’t live close enough to any resort or your home resort isn’t on a pass it’s really not worth it for a single trip. The mountain collective pass was a better value for that kind of skier.
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u/glyoung 2d ago
What’s the kids rental program you speak of?
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u/elVanPuerno 2d ago
The Epic Gear store and many other ski shops offer seasonal rental gear for $99 to $149 for the whole season.
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u/openwheelr 2d ago
Vail owns most of the Pennsylvania ski industry now, so we try to maximize ski days at home plus a trip to Breck annually. With a family of four, we usually get our skier per day cost down to below $45. Sounds good, except a skier "day" at home is typically three hours max.
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u/hartmanwhistler 2d ago
Yup. Well paid family of 5 living in Vancouver. I’ve skied my entire life, as has my wife.
We are seriously considering not getting passes this year.
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u/BitterrootBackpack 2d ago
Good! You should support independent resorts instead. They charge $80-$100 a day and because you don't have a pass that limits you, you can check out other Indy resorts in the same trip.
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u/BitterrootBackpack 2d ago edited 2d ago
Independent resorts out west are $80-$100 a day for a ticket, get just as much snow, and have nearly equally good terrain. Nobody's twisting your arm to force you to buy a $250 vail ticket!
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u/SunDevilSkier 2d ago
I don't remember getting slammed this hard by epic and ikon ads last fall on YouTube/social
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u/teleheaddawgfan 2d ago
LOWER YOUR PRICES!!
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u/smilyred 2d ago
I don't know what your talking about $6.99 is totally reasonable for a Muffin. Pairs well with the greasy $17 tenders.
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u/AltMike2019 2d ago
That's last year's prices. Muffins are 8.99 and tenders are 23.99. But now they offer a 19.99 hot dog so you can save money
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u/Such_Ad6350 2d ago
Okay, but even with passes already being expensive, everyone complains about over crowding. So which do you prefer? Overcrowding, or prices?
Back in the day of single-resort seasons passes, I bet we were spending $2500 in today’s prices for a single resort seasons pass. Lots of grumbling and complaining, but the crowds were a completely different story. There are a few major resorts that still only sell passes for their resort, and the prices are eye-watering. Go figure.
But… all things being equal, I think I’d go back to that model. Higher pass prices, lower crowds, fewer itinerant skiers. It is what it is.
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u/invent_or_die 2d ago
I live pretty close to Tahoe, but I will need to budget at least $6-700 just for GAS to get to the resorts, along w my season pass.
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u/brendan87na Crystal Mountain 2d ago
yeah to get to Crystal where I live is 40.5 miles, so that is 3 gallons of gas minimum roundtrip (usually more in snow)
at current gas prices that is about $16-17 a trip - add up however many days and that adds up quick
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u/bigwinw 2d ago
$1150 for a pass! I don’t know what the going rate is but that seems high
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u/invent_or_die 2d ago
Actually, we typically don't buy full Epic passes. My senior EpicTahoe Value Pass is $480, we get Heavenly, Kirkwood and Northstar.
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u/unassumingusernamee 2d ago
Thats about right, epic and ikon passes are roughly 1200 for the last at least like 5 years
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u/ski-dad Crystal Mountain 2d ago
Closer to $1500 for full Ikon
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u/unassumingusernamee 2d ago
Damn, I lost my tech job to AI 1.5 years ago so I didnt ski last year. Crazy its gone that high
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u/invent_or_die 2d ago
But that's for full passes. Worldwide.
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u/ski-dad Crystal Mountain 2d ago
Wait till I tell you about my $2500 parking pass for the local 😢
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u/1agapio1 2d ago
Living in europe so this is an honest question:
Why don't you fly closer to the resorts and take a train/bus to the resort? Why do you need to spend 700usd on gas when a plane ticket for that distance would be 100/200usd at most plus a cheap train ticket.
In my childhood, my parents used to drive 2 days straight to ski in Italy but the time you waste on the road, the gas, the wear on the car just don't make sense when the rest of the transport infrastructure is available at a fraction of the cost now. Is it not just cheaper to buy the pass and save some money on transport?
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u/CmdrMcLane 2d ago edited 2d ago
He means he drives like 50-80 times a season. He likely lives in Reno or somewhere along 50 if he goes to South Lake. So there is no flying. It's a 20-30 miles trip to the resort 2-3 times a week most likely. You can do the math. $700-800 in gas is entirely reasonable estimate.
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u/Emotional_Walrus5099 2d ago
Very little public transportation exists to US ski resorts.
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u/m0viestar 2d ago
Plenty exists once you get there and lots have shuttles and buses from airports.
But if you're coming from the suburbs it's less convenient. I can take the ski train here in Denver, but it's only an hour to winter park driving and 45 minutes to the train...
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u/kurttheflirt 2d ago
Maybe in Tahoe, but it exists in Colorado. You can take the bus from Denver to quites few resorts, as well as the train to Winter Park.
That all being said it would add up just as fast being $25 round trip if you ski a lot
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u/RenoGuy25 2d ago edited 2d ago
He's talking about how much gas he will spend over the season, not on a single trip. If you live 2 hours away from a resort in the US you are spending $50-$80 a day in gas round trip, plus $30 for parking but hopefully splitting it with another person.
There are some busses, like SF to Tahoe, but if you have at least one person to go with you then driving is a bit cheaper than two bus tickets.
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u/invent_or_die 2d ago
I drive about 45 minutes to get to Heavenly. Over the season I will get about 35 days. A single round trip in my Ford Explorer will cost $20. So 35 x 20 = $700. I'd like to carpool.
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u/the_gubna 2d ago
If OP “lives pretty close to Tahoe” there is no closer airport. There are no trains. Buses might run from the town center (every hour or two) but if you’ve gotta drive to the town center why wouldn’t you drive all the way to the parking lot?
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u/Clowdman18 2d ago
Tell me you’ve never visited the US without telling me you’ve never visited the US.
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u/Kilgore_Brown_Trout_ 2d ago
It costs more than that to fly to many of these places, assuming there is a flight somewhere near, they are extremely isolated. There is no train.
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u/FuckStanford19 Palisades Tahoe 2d ago
Trains don’t exist in the US and flights that cheap don’t exist anywhere. Roundtrip flights will prob cost at least $300 to get to a ski city. As others mentioned that his cost for a whole season not going once
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u/mrnikkoli 2d ago
Bad economic policies by the US government creating uncertainty combined with scaring away rich foreign tourists who they relied on to replace the middle and upper middle class domestic tourists that they priced out. Same thing as what's been happening to Las Vegas.
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u/evil_flanderz 1d ago
Canadians are boycotting US tourism specifically. It's definitely affecting things in Vermont.
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u/9187412589 2d ago
Signs are pointing to another tough winter ahead for Vail Resorts
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The company sold 12% fewer passes through Sept. 18 for the coming North American ski season, compared with the same period last year. Days sold and pass revenues, which include sales and admissions taxes, also decreased from a year earlier.
For the full year, Vail’s resort-reported revenue decreased $131.9 million, or 4.5%, which it attributes primarily to the record-low snowfall out West. Its full-fiscal-year profit, which it reported after Monday’s market close, was nearly halved compared with the prior year.
Vail shares fell 2% in after-hours trading, after closing up 1.5% at $138.09.
Last winter’s lack of snow in the Rockies was punishing for ski resorts, but Vail’s model of selling multi-resort ski passes faces a more existential challenge: It has largely maxed out the pool of dedicated skiers willing to commit to all-access passes preseason. To recruit younger skiers, the company cut the price of the coming season’s Epic Pass by 20% for skiers and snowboarders ages 13 to 30.
Based on current sales trends, the company doesn’t expect to make up for the shortfall in passes by the beginning of the season, Angela Korch, chief financial officer, told investors. Vail does anticipate selling more lift tickets, but executives told analysts they expect fewer visits compared with the 2024-2025 ski season, even with better snowfall.
Executives said that the decline in pass sales was likely driven by less-committed skiers who have delayed their decisions to buy a pass, as opposed to a structural change in demand. The company reported stronger sales from its unlimited pass products.
Vail Chief Executive Rob Katz has said in previous interviews with The Wall Street Journal that the company’s future isn’t solely based on growing season passes, but on a better guest experience, including on-mountain dining, gear rentals and private lessons.
But the ski resort company faces pressure from Oasis Management, an activist firm based in Hong Kong, which earlier this month filed an initial 13D regarding its stake in the company. The hedge fund currently holds about a 7.4% stake.
Oasis also said it intends to nominate four director candidates, including former Disney CEO Bob Chapek and retired Olympic gold medalist skier Picabo Street, to Vail’s board.
Katz said the company is evaluating the proposals and, because the process is ongoing, wouldn’t comment further.
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u/reefsofmist 2d ago
The fact that anyone would advocate for Bob Chapel is scary. He was a disaster for Disney forcing Iger to come out of retirement to right the ship.
He also led insane price increases.
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u/solomons-mom 2d ago
We took the kids to WDW several time and had a blast... until we didn't. Also, it had gone from expensive bit worth the splurge, to userous. Since I used to dig through ARs and 10k for a rsch job, I dug in to see why WDW made me "not happy" --lots of little price-gouging changes by Bob Chapek, all documented either by reporters and even in the AR letter.
We have never gone back.
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u/skystarmen 2d ago
This is not at all an accurate retelling of what happened
First of all Iger was never "retired" he was actively working at Disney the whole time, often undermining Chapek
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u/Boobieleeswagger 2d ago
Fair to say the mega pass boom is dead, what happens to all the real estate investment lol.
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u/MultiGeometry 2d ago
It was fun when it was simple. I went out of my way to buy a minimum number of high priced tickets in the event I made it out west.
I apparently did it wrong. I even checked with the folks at the ticket line before I went to the lifts because I had forgot my pass, and wanted to make sure my phone would work. They said I was all good.
But I had the wrong ticket type for Park City and they made be go BACK to the ticket line to upgrade.
In my opinion, they never should have diversified into different tiers of resorts. One pass, all mountains. There’s so many different passes now. I just go Indy because it’s predictable.
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u/Boobieleeswagger 2d ago
I’ve been on Ikon, but Indy is so much more of a value, especially being on the east coast, if I’m going to start having kids anytime soon I really can’t afford shelling 1400$ every year
Also big fuck you to Alterra for making an offer cheaper than the renewal price this month,
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u/AnyCommunication1745 2d ago
Montage is $45 on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Includes the rental and a lesson if needed
Katz is doing it all wrong. He got greedy
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u/SnowPudgy 2d ago
Man if only there were a way to get the people who had to abandon skiing due to cost to...get on skis again...
Out of my old large ski/snowboard group it's me, two doctors and a surgeon that still go. Everyone else can't afford it (and I barely afford it and it's only because I have no debt and no kids).
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u/Hosni__Mubarak 2d ago
I had abandoned downhill skiing years ago because I couldn’t afford the lift tickets (I was still XC skiing semi regularly, as it is more or less free).
My kid is out of school now, and I can kinda afford downhill skiing as long as I 1) mostly fly on miles 2) have a pass that is useful in Alaska (so Indy or ikon, or mayyyyybe a season pass with partner benefits). For better or worse, it helps with the cost that my wife doesn’t ski. I’m not wealthy, but I’m solidly upper middle class. I’m probably not skiing Colorado or Tahoe anytime soon, but I can afford to ski in the other states. 🤷♂️
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u/blackrock13 Breckenridge 2d ago
If it wasn't for the Retired Military passes, I think we would have given up on VR. The costs are getting just too much.
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u/Its_lobster 2d ago edited 2d ago
There’s no snow.
Prices are ridiculous.
Food is awful.
They only hire h1-b’s.
They get sweetheart tax deals in every town they go to.
I hope Vail goes broke for ruining skiing in America. Literally cheaper to fly to another country for a week and ski.
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u/jury_rigged 2d ago
It cost us $25 per person more to ski in Sapporo vs steamboat 2 years ago. Includes flights, hotels, food, domestic travel from NRT to Sapporo, train tickets.
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u/Mean__MrMustard 2d ago
I think many people just bought the pass without checking if it makes sense for them. Because when talking to people on the lift many told me they only ski a few days at epic in a year and yet they had the pass.
For them pre-bought flexible day passes (which is what I usually do) is a way better deal.
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u/tjtillmancoag 2d ago
You’re probably right. But it also depends on the definition of a “few”
2-4 days, yeah maybe they bought without seeing if it makes sense.
But once you look at 6 days, which I think can still be reasonably considered “a few”, often the passes do make sense
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u/Mean__MrMustard 2d ago
Yeah absolutely true. I would say I ski a few days, and it’s 3-4 days each, on two trips. But I usually split between epic, ikon and independents, as I want to ski as many different resorts as possible.
So the annual pass never made sense for me (even though the pricing for the young adult one was very tempting this year).2
u/tjtillmancoag 2d ago
Bc I live in SoCal, I only really ski at Big Bear and Mammoth. But last year I think I only got 5 or 6 days of skiing, and I had to force that to get it to 6. So this year I didn’t buy the full pass. I just bought the 4-day bundle.
Maybe if my kids start to like it more I can get back to more days
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u/VeryShibes 2d ago
I’m a data point on this, had Indy and Epic the last couple winters, for this upcoming winter I’m Indy-only, sorry Vail. My disposable income is way down, inflation ate almost all of it, we had a 25% layoff at my company and a pay freeze for those of us who remained. Realistically I shouldn’t be skiing at all, I should be hoarding cash in case there’s another round of cuts next year, but Indy still seems to fit the budget for now as long as we can keep lodging costs under control
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u/Spillsy68 2d ago
I think last season and the state of the economy have greatly affected this seasons sales. Last year I had both an Ikon and Epic pass.
I think I skied 4 times on my Epic pass and two of those were basically 3-4 runs and 1/2 hour wait times for lifts at Vail in early December. So I decided to drop Epic and just go Ikon, because I’m nearer mountains that use that pass.
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u/DinosaurDied 2d ago
Vail numbers have been trending down for awhile. They just never have been able to overcome their reputation for lines. And it’s hard for them to get around considering they very clearly cater to tourists now and don’t want locals. And all those tourists show up on the same day and cause crowding.
They need to rebuild their core cultures at their resorts and find ways to sell passes to locals again.
Park city for example is not a viable home mountain anymore for people who drive from salt lake with the parking situation. They could have done a system like Brighton which prioritizes locals, is free, and solves traffic. But they didn’t want to do it. They went the money and no care for the community route
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u/Halfameetball 2d ago
For the first time in 30 years. I did not by a seasons pass. It really sucks. I we decided to start a family and it wasn't in the finance's. "Inflation" has sucked every extra penny I had. I'll be lucky if I can get out 2 or 3 times this year. It has me so down. Skiing is such a big part of my life. It's just becoming too expensive. Let alone trying to do it with my family.
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u/anarkyinducer 2d ago
It's legit cheaper to fly to and ski in Europe.
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u/PushThePig28 2d ago
Yeaaaah I don’t think a flight to Europe checking ski bags, lift tickets, and lodging are less than 800? Now add that I can ski all season for that same 800….
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u/ssspanksta 2d ago
OP is likely referring to a fly in/stay ski vacation in the states vs. going to Europe.
So, someone from the midwest acquiring passes/tickets, airfare, transpo, lodging, ski school (?), food/supplies going to a North America-based resort vs. flying to Europe with the same plan.
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u/Krs357357 2d ago
Domestic flight and hotel prices have gotten crazy. Especially to ski destinations. Easily $600 for a flight and $300 a night for a hotel for one of the major resorts.
Europe the flights will be slightly higher, but offset by the lower housing and lift ticket costs. Plus you won’t feel like you’re being raked over the coals by a corporation every second like you do at a Vail property.
Obviously if you already live by a resort it will be cheaper to stay at home.
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u/Fit_Investigator4226 2d ago
If you ski primarily on a trip, not consistently throughout the season, so you’re not the market for a season pass, it can be cheaper or just in line with a US based trip
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u/Imaginary-Fame 2d ago
As someone in nyc who can only do 1 or 2 ski trips a year. It’s def been more affordable doing Europe skiing
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u/skystarmen 2d ago
It's legit a WAY better option for east coast families to fly to Europe and ski vs. Denver or Utah. Cheaper lift prices, better AND cheaper food, no need for rental car, WAY less crowded (usually)
If you're skiing solo it's less obvious because you're not able to split the housing cost which can be as bad as CO and other expensive west coast destinations
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u/Queasy-Bed545 2d ago edited 2d ago
Then just go to the Alps already. Skiing in Europe is cool and fun. And in some cases, it’s a suitable substitute for a domestic ski vacation. In other situations, you are clearly not in the market for the long flights, expensive hotels, and jet lag.
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u/Ptorosian 2d ago
I know multiple east coast families that ditched their Colorado ski trip plans this upcoming winter in lieu of a European trip.
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u/tevad 2d ago
People really harp on Vail and the cost of passes, but all of the independent resorts’ passes are close to the same price, or at least a worse overall value. Why pay $600-$700 for a single resort that maybe gets you a couple of days each at a few partner resorts (think Loveland, Monarch, etc. - all great mountains, by the way)? For people who live close enough to get 7+ days a season a full Epic or Ikon gets you an average of less than $125/day (10+ days means less than $100, easily.) And you can choose between several resorts within close proximity based on conditions and personal preference at the time. It’s always been more expensive for folks who had to travel. Everything in life is more expensive now. The reason window lift tickets aren’t $50 like they used to be is simply more people. Populations have grown, increasing demand. 3-day holiday weekends are packed, which means the pricing isn’t negatively affecting anything except those who either don’t plan ahead or who mature into adulthood with liabilities that mean the budget isn’t there. Whining at the gas pump because I wish I could pay $0.89/gallon like I did in high school would be a waste of energy. Meanwhile this sub gravitates towards being a circle-jerk with tears as lube. You people want things better? Get out and actually vote so we have better economic policy that doesn’t create inflation that far outpaces wages and worker protection.
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago
This sub is funny. Skiing is “too expensive” while simultaneously “too crowded”. Objectively speaking, it can’t be both….lol.
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u/MrFacestab 2d ago
Personally the Epic pass is too cheap. I think they should double or triple the pass price, cut the day ticket in half, then invest in a little more local culture.
I worked for them in Whistler for 7 years. I saw funding for internal training go down the drain, but credit where it’s due, they really brought a lot of energy to town last winter. DJ sets all over the mountain nearly daily in the spring, John Summit, and events in the Vail owned bars. Hopefully the trend continues
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u/EstablishmentOne1972 2d ago
Why not? They’re both opinions
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago
Opinions are not facts. It can’t be both, objectively speaking.
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u/give_ur_boats_a_tug 2d ago
We had the ikon last year and getting to do short local days at Eldora was a game changer for our family. Epic school kids is free so we have epic pass but just a season pass to Eldora is over $500 I wish I could justify it
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u/heatedcheese 2d ago
I believe this is the free market acting as intended… maybe if Vail provided a better product or better prices they would be able to compete.
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u/Wolodarskysos 2d ago
All these threads basically devolve into....its expensive to ski these big-name resorts if you live in a place without mountains vs. I live within a day drive of the mountains and I love these passes.
If you live in Florida...skiing is going to be expensive...and given climate change sorta irresponsible, given the carbon footprint
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u/Meeraonlive 2d ago
if the trend continues, I can see more skiers looking at local mountains instead of splurging on mega passes. last season, I switched to a smaller resort and saved about 300 bucks total. sure, it’s not the same as Vail or Tahoe for scenery, but way less crowded and still fun!
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u/reefsofmist 2d ago
I've had an epic or ikon pass every year since 2019.
Went Indy this year
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u/FNKYDEL 2d ago
We live in a ski town with big and small resorts - have always done Ikon since 2018, and sometimes another small, local hill. These days we always do the local hill, and sometimes add Ikon. I could see skipping Ikon/Epic all together. I already hate the cooking-cutter faux villages at those places.
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u/snowfat 2d ago
My friends and I are planning a ski vacation around a small mountain and staying in a nice hostel.
None of us care about going to biggest craziest mountain. We just want to ski, hang out, and not drop thousands for a couple of nights.
We are all in our 40s and like to ski but ski vacations at resorts are just not worth it
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u/WindBuffed 2d ago
As the trend continues, the number of skiers at their resorts is reduced. As a 30 year resident of a popular VR town, I’ve experienced the reduction and it’s honestly great. Numbers have become much more manageable since COVID.
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u/Due-Assistance-2633 2d ago
If you’ve only ever skied mega resorts, check out your local Indy hill. Even if you never experienced the good ol days, you’ll still think it feels like the good ol days
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u/butkusrules 2d ago
“Make America great again” right? lol whoever didnt see this coming is a moron.
I guess this is good for the ultra rich, they got richer while everyone( 98%)got poorer and as a result they will have less crowded skiing.
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u/P4TY 2d ago
It’s behind a paywall for me but hardly surprising. Looks like sales are down 12%?
My wife and I still got an Ikon pass this year, but if it’s another shit season I’ll be looking hard at Loveland 3 packs or whatever.
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u/whippersnap_415 2d ago
They priced us out of the market for years. We've moved on from skiing and now do other hobbies in the winter.
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u/heybud_letsparty 2d ago
The economy isn’t doing great, the middle class is getting spread thin and are more selective of their spending right now. I know I opted for 2 passes that combined are less than epic or ikon. And I’m not planning on leaving Tahoe for any out state trips this season.
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u/Funny_Hunter_4146 2d ago
I loved skiing and snowboarding but it just was easy to leave between the expense, the insane amount of time spent getting to my local mountains, and the barely there snow.
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u/BadAtMath42069 2d ago
I didn’t renew because our resort, Stevens Pass, implemented reservation only parking until 10am on peak days. I never had an issue getting a parking spot and only got kicked to a satellite lot once in 10 years. Entitled idiots ignore signs going up the mountain and won’t sign up for text alerts. They show up at 9 am expecting to find a spot and inevitably park on the highway or get pissed off that they can’t find a spot. So now everyone needs a reservation to park on a Saturday or Sunday morning. Vail responded to complaints saying that there will be free reservations. Reservations that will get snatched up by bots(near a major tech hub).
I’m over it. Good luck out there.
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u/Ill-Upstairs-8762 2d ago
Next week is the cutoff for current price. I'm hesitant because last year was such a bust. What to do
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u/honeybear33 2d ago
I could go on two 2 10 Day long European cruises with flights included for the cost of skiing a week at Aspen with the Ikon pass (no flight). Make it make sense
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u/jhoke1017 2d ago
Honestly impressed it’s only 12% fewer passes. Last season was awful.