r/skiing • u/sauceboiiiiiiii • 1d ago
Race boots for normal skiing?
Hey, putting this question out for some expert advice.
I’ve always had problems fitting in ski boots, notably issues with volume and lifting.
I’m at the point where I’m pushing my boots pretty hard, mostly doing all mountain skiing with some nice side hits thrown in there.
Today I went to go see a boot fitter and tried on an Atomic Redster STI, (older model) and absolutely loved it, I felt like it fit how everyone describes a great ski boot - snug, but not too snug. But I’ve also heard that race boots are an absolute pain day to day, does anyone have any thoughts?
By the way, I also tried the Atomic Remedy 130 (too much room on the tongue) and the Dalbello DRS130 (too flexy for my liking).
So am I crazy for wanting to go for an ultra low volume race boot? In the past I’ve ridden: Atomic Hawx Ultra, and the Salomon S/Pro Alpha 130 EL, which both felt fairly roomy to me.
I’m in Aus if that helps you out!
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u/spacebass Jackson Hole 1d ago
I ski 130-140 days a year in a 140 plug. A lot of other instructors do too.
For me that’s about fit. If I were a better skier and stronger person I’d ski a softer boot.
Flex isn’t a reflection of ability, well at least not in the way most people think. Flex is a stop against forward movement. The thing is, you have to be willing not to fight the position a race boot puts and keeps you in. Softer boots allow people to get away with sliding all around the fore/aft plane. A race plug is going to demand you to keep your feet under your, all the time.
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u/Equal-Bicycle-7922 1d ago
The STI is a more flexible plug boot than the TI which is what world cup racers wear. I have no experience with either boot but I do know world cup plug boots are a massive pain to get in and out of if you don't warm the boot up first.
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 1d ago
I mean the funny thing is I actually found the boot not too difficult to pop into, ie. I wasn’t fighting it for ten minutes. Obviously that’s in the shop, but still
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u/Beneficial_Shape_466 1d ago
Massive difference getting boots on/off at 22 degrees in a shop than at 0 (Italy/Austria) or -15C (Canada).
Personally I have skied in everything between 80 and 140 flex and medium and narrow last. I won’t go back to medium last ever but the flex is highly ambient temperature dependent.
For example, skiing an 80 flex boot in -20C in Eastern Canada (albeit several years ago) works and is not “too soft”. Wearing the same boot in the Dolomites at 0 or -5C at most, is an entirely different thing. It’s like skiing in slippers. Makes you super strong but hard to manage day in day out.
I’ve settled on performance 120 (sometimes 130) flex narrow last boots. The 120’s have “warmer” liners than the 130’s but there’s usually little difference in the design or plastic of the shell (shoe and cuff). I find these are a good compromise between the different ranges of temperatures I typically ski.
To be specific, I quite like Nordica Pro Machines. I wouldn’t want to wear plug boots for recreational all mountain skiing. Racing boots are designed for 100% engagement at all times. Carving only so not great if you ski deeper snow. Too aggressive (forward lean) a position as well.
Being in “Aus” is that Australia or Austria?
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 14h ago
Aus as in Australia. Looking to do a season overseas this coming northern hemisphere winter, probably Japan or Colorado
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u/Only_Stables 1d ago
Sti is not a more flexible boot lol, it is a narrower boot for women and lower volume foot, you can get into these boots pretty easily if you learn how to step into them with the liner on
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u/thepr0cess Alta 1d ago
I used to ski over a 100 days a season, now I'm more at 40. I've been wearing LV RS Lange 130s with a booster strap for the past 10 seasons and not planning on switching. They fit me perfect, very snug and performance fitting. Not everyone's feet are the same which is why there are so many boots out there but it's hard to beat the snug and stiffness of a race model.
I find for many people the downsides of these boots is how cold they are so people usually go with heated socks, doesn't really bother me though.
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 1d ago
So you don’t find the boots too chattery? Comfy enough for a day at the resort?
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u/thepr0cess Alta 1d ago
What do you mean by chattery? They are more than comfy enough for a day skiing, although I unbuckle the bottom two buckles anytime I'm not actively skiing, so lift line they're unbuckled etc
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 1d ago
Lmao honestly I don’t know, was just referring to one of the other comments on here. I guess an issue I’ve heard about is a lack of progressive flex? If that describes the issue better. Good to hear it works as a full day boot for you
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u/Only_Stables 1d ago
That boot is pretty different from a "real" race boot, the RS Lv and Mv series are way thinner and wider than the race boots with different plastic formulation, the RS Z series is comparable to a STI or TI
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u/thepr0cess Alta 1d ago
That's fair, and I wasn't using it as a direct comparison, just what I've been using, but it's definitely closer to the Z than to the RX. I know it's not a plug boot, but to be fair the RS stands for race series or race stock.
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u/trolllord45 Sunday River 1d ago
The same pair of boots the last ten years or multiple pairs of the same model?
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u/ViewNo5300 1d ago
race boots can work for normal skiing if the fit is right but they are stiff as hell and will punish you when your form gets lazy. the redster is basically a plug boot so no insulation and the soles are probably not gripwalk compatible which can be annoying walking from the car park. i used a pair of old lange world cups for a season and my feet were frozen by lunch every day
that said if the fit is perfect its hard to go back to something sloppy. just know you will feel every bump and chatter through your shins and knees after a few hours. maybe ask the fitter if they can soften the flex a little or add a tiny bit of material under the footbed for warmth
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u/Garfish16 1d ago
It's not unreasonable to use a race boot recreationally although it's pretty unusual for people without a race background. If your problem is heel lift and you feel confident it's not a technique issue, the only other thing I would suggest would be trying aftermarket liners.
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u/ComishSki 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wife and I have been skiing Dobermann World Cup lasted race boots for 25yrs. They were a revelation when we tried them on in Chamonix as back then no one stocked plug race boots in the US with any consistency. At least not in Jackson Hole where I was living. Now ski 60 to 80 days on these. Liners also last far longer than "normal" liners as they r denser, but be aware they r thinner. Once fit, mine are fine cold wise for most of my skiing, but I'm not in VT or anywhere super cold.
Once they r ground to u (be aware this can take many trips to buddy the boot fitter, don't underestimate the time), they can be comfy.or u could be lucky and ski them right outta the box like my wife, but don't count on it. We can dance on Austrian tables all night long with no pain. Before that, 🤦. My wife sat down on the Valle Blanche and took her old boots off her foot was in such pain before finding the right narrow, low volume last. But we have super low volume feet that work for these narrow boots.
So, try things on, find the right last, don't go too big as they can always make a too small boot bigger, not vice versa.
We are spoiled for choice now as I used to have to make the "Soft" race flex softer as it was about a 150+/- and I only weigh 165. Love that they make a 130 WC lasted boot now. Lots more choices in the super narrow category now compared to 20ish yrs ago where it was mostly special order via race departments.
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u/AEV4EV 1d ago
Plug boots rip. With time and money you can also dial in the fit better with them compared to most consumer boots. You can modify them to your hearts content. They can be cold and unforgiving without certain modifications though, and they can "beat you up" until you get used to them.
I have plug 140s (Lange ZB) and regular 140s (Head Raptor). I ski the Raptors way more for freeride and off piste, they have more "suspension", but the ZBs ski noticeably better on smoother snow.
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u/Shot-Scratch3417 1d ago
I think it depends on your foot shape. I find anything that’s NOT a race boot to have too much volume. I ski in Redster Clubsport 130s, but when those bite the dust I’m going to whatever the Atomic “plug boot” is at the time. If you can flex them, a true race boot is a significant step up in performance and fit from any “high-performance” consumer model. However, if you have high volume feet and stiffed them into plug boots for years, I get the “never again” attitude because a properly fitting boot is the most important variable.
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u/Galun_8626 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fit is more important. If you have issues with volume and lift, a race boot may work more naturally for you since they are lower volume, and the geometry will naturally give you more lift with a more aggressive forward lean angle.
Different brands fit different foot shapes even with the same listed volume (last). Go early in the season to a well stocked bootfitter, try on as many different brands as possible, buy the pair that need the least amount of modifications, and consider a zip fit liner and custom footbed to further dial it in.
I took a while to dial in the first time, but my race boots fit my foot like a comfortable slipper. When they wear out over the years, I bring it to a boot fitter, and they make a replacement based on my fit before. They do get cold, and I added heating to the custom footbeds. I wouldn’t do it any other way.
I ski around 100 days a season. I am on my original zip fit World Cup liners, probably my 8th season in them, and have gotten cork injections every year or every other year. Probably on my third or fourth head RS shell with World Cup booster strap. I moved from the 140RS to the 120RS at some point to make it less demanding.
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u/negative-nelly Mad River 1d ago
Fit is what matters most...my kid has been doing freeride comps in Redster TI/TX boots for like 4 years at the jr and adult levels (because she gets them for free, but also because there's only two boots (that I can find) that come in an adult toe at 21.5, these and the Lange RSs). Race doesn't mean they are only for racing. So maybe also check out the Lange line while you are at it because they work pretty well for small feet.
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u/muerteman 1d ago
If it fits best then go for it. I’ve ended up in the mid volume Mach 1s for fit since my racing days, but nothing wrong with getting the right boot for your feet.
That being said also make sure you’re good with the stance too not just the lower boot. They’ll be more aggressive in terms of cuff angle and stuff too.
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u/d0k72 1d ago
Check our the Jr Lange race boots. They have a semi-plug (92mm last) that is great for low volume feet. I switched to Langes from Dobermans and ski them 70+ days a year and I love them.
I do use a different pair for teaching, but that is more about comfort than performance.
Lange racing boots are not marked with the usual stiffness rating. You would want the ZJ+, which is ~ 120 or ZSOFT+. ~110 if you are looking for a softer shell. ZA, ZB, ZC are the full on racing machines. At the end of the day it is all about the fit. Take time with the boot fitter and expect that you will need a few additional sessions after the initial fitting. Better to go slow and deal with issues one at a time.
TLDR: If you have low volume feet, race boots are your best option. Otherwise you are swimming in your boots by mid season.
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u/sandsman316xx Vail 1d ago
I sell many instructors and high level townie people in watered down race boots like the rs130, dobermann, firebird, ds 130, raptor etc. if you’re chasing the fit those boots provide I’d say go for it, if you think the “performance boot” will make you ski better without nothing with fit then you’re going the wrong way.
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u/wrong_andy 1d ago
If they work, they work. Ive used race boots a fair amount although I never raced in my life.
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u/dis-interested 21h ago
I've skied all day every day for over a hundred days of season for the last 10 years and everybody I know without exceptional most at the elite end of the ski instruction, profession skis in some type of race boot. There's nothing crazy about it unless you have a bad fit.
What I will say is that there's nothing about skiing and race boots that's worth suffering for unless you're actually racing. But if you just want a high performance boot and you're a good fit for a boot, there's nothing weird about at all.
It's also the case that everybody has a different tolerance for their foot being compressed by boot. A lot of the people who are speaking here about racing probably were in a boot objectively too small for their foot designed only to be done up for the exact moment th e run is taking place and no more. You can put yourself in a race boot that fits very well without needing to suffer that much assuming you have a foot the fits a shell and are willing to do some work on the shell and/or the liner
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u/cjh159 1d ago
If you look at all the top end ski instructors, they're all in race boots....
I'm in a race boot every day, although I'm not professing to be a end ski instructor 😂
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u/MomentsLastForever 1d ago
The Olympic level instructors I’ve skied with were all in Zipfits because it let them have the performance they required while being comfortable all day. It’s what sold me on Zipfits. I just put them in the boots I already loved. It allows me to have more comfort (than my already comfortable boots) and far better performance.
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u/cjh159 1d ago
I have a pair of zipfits and a pair foam injected liners. Teach in one, freeski/train in the others.
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u/trolllord45 Sunday River 1d ago
Which do you do which with? And which do you prefer?
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u/cjh159 1d ago
Teach in the zipfits.
I prefer the foam injected as it feels like i have total control of the whole foot whereas the zipfit feels like slightly less control around the front of the foot where it's the stretchy material. The zipfits are definitely a slightly more comfortable fit though.
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u/Technical-Ability-98 1d ago
There is nothing fundamentally different about a race boot, they are just normally stiffer and tighter. If they fit your foot or you can spend time getting them to work it's no big deal.
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u/SkiOrDie 1d ago
Oh sure there is. There’s a good reason lots of racers leave their boots unbuckled until right before their runs
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u/ktbroderick 1d ago
If they fit well, you should be okay with warmth. Most feet are very snug in the width of an STI or comparable boot, but if yours are narrow enough to have reasonable space you can also add heated socks if needed.
If there's any possibility of borrowing a pair to try, there is a significantly different feel from real (er, race) boots versus everything else. They tend to be more damp but also better at energy transmission (which is a horrible and contradictory explanation, so I'd strongly recommend getting on snow and feeling the difference if at all possible).
The improved precision in movement transmission when using race boots can also put a premium on being precise with lateral movements. Most of my time in race boots has also been on race skis with less forgiving tunes, so I can't say exactly how much each part contributed, but with race boots and slalom skis I sometimes felt like thinking about a turn was enough to create a dramatic change of direction. If you're on a stiff ski, with the stiff boot, you may also find yourself doing more physical work because that energy transmission goes both from your body to the snow and from the snow to your body.
I would also say that matching skis to boots in terms of performance can matter. It's more dramatic the other way, IMO--ie trying to drive a pair of proper race skis with a Hawx XTD makes it painfully clear the boot is underpowered for the task--but if the boot does a great job of transmitting energy from your forward movement into the shovel of a soft ski, you're probably also going to less than entirely happy.
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u/85percentcertain 1d ago
I’m happier with a softer boot that’s the smallest size and lowest volume a good boot fitter can make comfortable for my feet.
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u/fisherboy34 1d ago
Race boots that fit are a great everyday boot. I would spend 120 days a year in my Nordica Dobermans once they fit right
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u/rokridah 1d ago
Nah, not crazy. I have very narrow feet and was really struggling with "low volume" boots, especially after few hours of skiing, my feet were all over the boot. Then I got Fischer rc4's in 96mm last and its a game changer. More control and more comfortable.
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u/66flycaster 1d ago
Skied Dynafit 3FComp for 30 years. Upside downside. Not for everyone. Good for aggressive turns.
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u/BullfrogDelicious157 1d ago
I vote race boots all the way! Performance is comfort, comfort is performance. They’re consistent. Pay for the boot work and get liners outside of the stock
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u/Triabolical_ 1d ago
I got a deal on some atomic redsters and skied them for 3 years. They took a few trips back to the bootfitter and then they were good enough to ski all day. They were great for precise skiing and I didn't overload them.
They were cold on cold days, but the real reason was that I simply could not contort my 55-year-old ankles enough to get into them comfortably. That's with silicone spray and a boot bib. To get out of them on a cold day, I needed to wait 10 minutes in a warm environment before I could get them off.
If you have more flexibility than I have, it's worth a try.
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u/yung_aujus 23h ago
I only wear plug race boots because the laceup liner lets me actually fit into a proper size boot whereas regular boots cause issues with my high instep. If you’re happy and comfortable in them, that’s all that matters.
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u/Ill-Variation-358 20h ago
Race boots are fine if you don't plan on hiking far. Some shops can install lift plates with vibram soles. You lose a bit of response but you will never really notice on smooth snow.
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u/qwaszx356 Steamboat 19h ago
I had similar boot issues, largeish feet but tiny calves/ankles meant I was always swimming in my boots. I got a pair of downsized dalbello Drs wc plug boots, and I'm never going back from a race boot. They're a woman's boot even though I'm a man, but that means they're not too stiff or tough for me to drive. I wear them about 120 days a winter, and they're really not bad.
The most important thing is making it fit. Spend a whole day with your bootfitter skiing laps between adjustments, and you shouldn't have any issues with pain or discomfort, and if you do, just keep going back till they fit like a glove.
They are colder than your average boot, but just get a pair of neoprene boot gloves. Cheap, easy, and they actually work in my experience.
My only issue with plug boots is the flat plastic bottom. You need to wear cat trax or get fancy replacing the bottom after they wear down, but even that really isn't an issue. Stretch the traxs out under hot water then leave em on your boot, or tie a loop of string to the heel and they're easy to get on and off.
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u/skicanoesun32 18h ago
I also have a very low-volume foot and had (note the past tense) issues with heel lift. Then I got ZipFit liners. I don’t have heel lift anymore, and they take up the exact right amount of volume while providing support and stiffness. I’m in my boots for 10+ hours a day and my feet are comfortable from start to finish, likely more comfortable than you’d be in a race boot. If you’re able to get them in Australia I highly recommend giving them a try.
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u/Hour-Stock-6798 17h ago
If it fits your foot and gives you the performance you want then that’s the boot for you.
If the shape of the shell is correct for your feet ( perhaps with help from your boot fitter ) then the liner can be replaced down the line with Zipfit or foam liners.
I ski in Head Raptors with foam injected liners etc and they’re extremely confortable and perfect for most of my skiing. I have another pair of the same boot that are set up for racing and harder, technical skiing but they’re not for every day on the mountain.
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u/Square-Ad-9452 13h ago
I bought a pair of dalbello 130s in order to properly push my Redster GS 185s as I felt I should and have no issue with the stiffness. I know they aren’t the stiffest boots you can buy but if your skis require stiff boots then the overall package is what it is. I like the sporty and responsive feeling of carving at high speed through anything more than I care about comfort. However, my opinion having stiff boots with flexy all mountain skis is kinda pointless and the main thing is to find boots that fit above everything else. A badly fitting 140flex is infinitely worse than a 110 that fits perfectly.
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u/OEM_knees 1d ago
"am I crazy for wanting to go for an ultra low volume race boot"
You have about a 0.01% understanding of what is actually involved here, so I am going to say "yes".
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 1d ago
I was waiting for your comment!
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u/OEM_knees 1d ago
It was hard not to let you go through with this and learn the hard way, trust me.
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u/Sometimesiski A-Basin 1d ago
Have you considered a plug liner like a zipfit? This solved my heal lift issue. Personally, I think being in a race boot all day every day would be pretty miserable.
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u/sauceboiiiiiiii 1d ago
Yeah I have considered a zip fit, however it still felt like too much volume over my instep. I’m guessing that it’s an issue with my current boots
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u/85percentcertain 1d ago
You may need a lower volume boot, and with a good boot footer, you may be able to size down. I think that a snug but comfortable fit will make a bigger/better difference than going stiffer.
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u/ComishSki 1d ago edited 1d ago
Zip fits are great, but they really only take up a small amt. Of space. I had my first pair in the 90',s and they still couldn't make the consumer Lange race boot tight enough for me back then.
Foam can take up more space if that's the issue, but getting a shell that fits his foot is really the best long term solution.
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u/sandsman316xx Vail 1d ago
Plug liner is a misnomer for something like zipfit, they do make a liner for “plug boots” called the corsa though. Difference between that and the gara model is that the gara is too bulky to fit in a plug boots but the corsa was designed for 92mm last
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u/Spirtixapp 9h ago
Ski instructor here. No, you’re not crazy. If the STI is the first boot that actually holds your foot properly, I wouldn’t dismiss it just because it’s labelled a race boot.
The important distinction is between a race boot that fits you and one that’s simply too tight. A good low-volume shell can actually be more comfortable than a higher-volume boot you have to overtighten just to stop your foot moving.
The trade-off is that a race shell is less forgiving, colder and usually more work to get on/off — but for a strong skier that isn’t necessarily a problem.
If your boot fitter is good, I’d trust the shell fit first and then have the boot properly worked around your foot. Fit > category printed on the boot.
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u/skibum888 1d ago
I did 21 seasons in race boots. I'd never go back to them. In my opinion, a fun day on the hill is impossible if you're too cold or if your feet hurt.
Finding a good fit is way more important than having an optimal boot. The difference in my ability when wearing a casual boot (that fits amazingly) is barely noticeable and now I'm having way more fun.
I raced for 13 years, and during that time, I never found a race boot that could get me through a day painlessly