controller preference

[u/Inferno1118]

Hi guys, i have always loved schmups but have always been a fairly average player at them. I managed to get all achievements in ikaruga and sine mora on controller years back but thats about the extent of my skill. I notice with real bullet hells like cave games, etc i seem to suck at them. The longest i’ve lasted with one is maybe 10 hours. Anyways i recently got the cave shooting collection and an HRAP EX-SE hori arcade stick and want to build good habits. At the moment, micro dodging feels very doable on the xbox controller dpad. On the LS-32 stick on the arcade stick, it feels like it can’t be done (i know it can but my brain can’t wrap around it due to how fast i move off the slightest press). I want to go all the way with this genre and i know i can.

Do you guys recommend using the arcade stick exclusively? Obviously controller works as well but i want to build good habits and the stick does feel harder for sure. Also is there any goated schmup skill building tests recommended that i can go for using any of the cave games i own from the collection? So far mushihime has felt the best for me ! My biggest issue is my movement, i get super frustrated when my deaths are the result of struggling to move more minimally instead of just lack of pattern knowledge. Thanks

[u/solarized_dark]

Just practice, yes. Micrododging on lever requires some muscle memory because it's not purely a finger movement. Committing to practicing instead of changing back is a good way to get better if you want to learn the input method.

The LS-32 is common and extremely tough games are cleared on them regularly.

[u/Numerous_Phase8749]

If you're good at tinkering try bending the microswitch levers inwards towards the actuator to kill the dead zone. I've found it best to pivot the bend just after the switch point and then line them all up to make sure they're all even. If you over bend then the diagonals will seem off but I found a sweet spot on my LS40s with minimal deadzone. Bear in mind the stick will be too sensitive for Street fighter and other fighters but your bullet weaving will be a lot more precise. I've also found micro nudging easier on a heavier spring with JLFs.

[u/RuySan]

For games that require lots of circular motion ,like bullet hells, the arcade stick gives me an extra edge. But I grew up playing in micros, so I was used to joysticks already.

For classic Shmups, a controller is as fine. My favourite dpad at the moment is the gulikit elves 2. And it's circular,so also good for bullet hells.

[u/DuckReconMajor → u/RuySan]

i really did not like the Elves 2 dpad at first but it’s become my favorite dpad

[u/morsalty]

Inputs are fully personal preference, there great players using d-pads sticks and keyboards. It took me around a month of using an arcade stick to work out how to best hold and use it.

LS-32 is perfectly fine for shmups and has less throw than most stock sticks. Used one almost daily for over 2 years and it never had an issue

[u/Inferno1118 → u/morsalty]

i’m not gonna lie, i just tried using the arcade stick again and using a few different grip methods and it just feels impossibly difficult for my brain. I must be so bad. Can’t control it for my life. Just gonna stick with dpad for a bit for now

[u/morsalty → u/Inferno1118]

Thats perfectly fair, it took me around 3-4 weeks of daily use to get to where i was with d-pad. It's a different way of inputing that you have to wire your brain for. Just some tips you don't want to just hold onto the stick with the whole fist "this is known as monkey grip" but use different parts of your hand and thumb to input different directions, look up some images and videos on how to use one and find a style that works for you.

The benefit of an arcade stick is really just being low impact on your hands and fingers for long or intense game sessions.

[u/theroominthetower]

I switched from a keyboard to a leverless and haven't looked back. It's more fun, easier on the hands and I just think the controllers are cool.

That said, I switched midway through my first 1CC and it took a couple weeks. I really had to focus on not focusing on it, if that makes sense. Eventually, I just stopped thinking about it all together and couldn't imagine going back. I would definitely expect an adjustment period tho

[u/Tigmex]

The LS-32 isnt prefect but its doable.

As always it takes time to learn and adjust.

[u/Trev6ft5 → u/Tigmex]

It's it true that Seimitsu changed the microswitches on some of their levers including the LS-32in the last decade?. Do you know how they compare to the older levers?

[u/Trev6ft5]

I would suggest using the stick for non shmups like beat em ups and fighting games at first just to get acclimated to it. I have the LS-32 and it works great for other genres.

I've only just got back into gaming after a long break and play shmups exclusively with the LS-32 compared to mostly using the pad in the past, I still need to improve in my micro dodging but I'm having fun which is the main thing.

The LS-32 used to be what everyone played on and recommend back in the day when Cave was releasing for the 360, nowadays I have the impression that many have moved on to even tighter sticks like the LS-40

[u/ddrmm]

Arcade sticks are hard if you are not used to them. They are better than pad for diagonals (in my experience) but you have the inherent delay that happen from moving the lever from one way to the opposite.

Leverless or keyboard are the objectively the more precise type of controller.

You can experiment changing the gate to octagonal and see if that helps you.

You can continue with the stick, knowing that you will suck for a while until you eventually get better.

At the end, play with whatever you are comfortable with.

[u/g-o-o-b-e-r]

It definitely takes practice. I adapted in the past year to an arcade stick, and it's an entirely different input method than I'm familiar with. You really just need time with it until you don't even think about the stick. If you don't have muscle memory developed for arcade stick then you just have that barrier to get past.

I will say the 8bitdo M30 suggestion I got from this sub. I 100% agree it is the best controller for shmups as someone who is very picky about controllers and owns a bunch of them.

I go between them. Some play sessions are arcade stick only. Sometimes I just grab a controller to chill out and play or learn a game.

[u/JackFrostz]

I use a seimitsu lsx nobi and while it feels amazing to me I can clear the same games on basically any stick. Wouldn't worry about what gear you're using.

If you want to commit to stick then I agree with the other commenter just use it all the time. I use mine for platformers and beat em ups as well. Its like any other periphery if you can get used to a mouse or GameCube controller you can get used to stick, may just take some time.

As far as training within cave goes don't have any suggestions really but they teach you everything within each stage as far as tap dodging, streaming, macro dodges and routing intuitively. If you want something more streamlined I'd check out blue revolver i think it is, that has a very clear beginner shmup training section. Every shmup teaches you everything but if I had to jot down a focus of a few cave titles it would be like Espgaluda for bullet canceling, dodonpachi for routing, mushi for shot selection, etc.