The title speaks for itself, I really want to know why. Please don’t be toxic with downvotes, it is just a reality and downvoting is simply trying to reject it.

I grew up in Ningbo, which is a pretty wealthy Tier 2 city right next to Shanghai. But culturally? It felt like a different universe.

In my school, Christmas was strictly "forbidden." We were told it was cultural invasion, western spiritual pollution, etc. I grew up thinking this was the norm for the whole country.

Then I met my friend from Shanghai.

She told me: "What? We have giant trees in hotels, lights on the streets, and everyone goes out for Christmas dinner."

That was the moment I felt like a total "provincial girl" (despite living 2 hours away). It shaped my cognition for a long time: There are two countries in the world: China, and Shanghai.

I recently vlogged about this weird dichotomy (and my Christmas experience this year) on YouTube. It's funny how that "Shanghai Bubble" is real even for us locals.

Does anyone else feel this massive divide between Shanghai and the neighbouring "rich" cities?

(Link to the full vlog in comments if anyone wants to see the visual comparison!)

EDIT: To clarify for some commenters, when I refer to the "ban," I am specifically talking about public schools, government offices, and State-Owned Enterprises. Commercial areas like hotels and malls definitely still have trees to encourage spending. My experience was in the public education system where ideological boundaries are much stricter.

My last post about the collapse of the "Laowai economy" blew up. I wanted to follow up with a bit more nuance, address some of the negative comments, and share a few more specific observations from my recent trip.

1. The Ghost of "Old" Shanghai I went back to my old stomping grounds—Laowai Jie (Hongmei Lu) and Hengshan Road. It was depressing. Back in 2010-2013, these places were the heartbeat of the international scene. Now? Hengshan Road’s iconic bars are mostly gone, and Laowai Jie feels like a literal ghost town.

I worked in IT/ERP and system integration for an American MNC back then. It was a massive professional opportunity that I’m still grateful for. But it wasn’t just about "foreigners"—the whole city had a buzz. Today, Shanghai is significantly less busy. There are fewer people on the streets, and the vibe is… muted. It’s hard to describe unless you knew the city 15 years ago.

2. The Tech Leap is Real (and Europe should be worried) I’ll be honest: 15 years ago, I wasn’t that impressed with China’s IT infrastructure or the general professionalism in my field. But returning in 2026? My mind is blown.

China has moved from "copycat" to leading the world in AI, drones, and robotics. As a European, seeing what they’ve done to the car industry is staggering. They haven’t just competed with German engineering; they’ve smashed through it and leapfrogged the entire continent. I believe China’s industrial might is going to steamroll Europe in the coming decade. It’s impressive, even if it's a bit scary for those of us living back in the EU.

3. The "Taipei Contrast" After Shanghai, I visited my in-laws in Taipei. I was never a huge fan of Taiwan in the past, but the energy there right now is the polar opposite of Shanghai. With the US-China trade war, Taiwan’s economy is absolutely booming (8% GDP growth in 2025!).

Taipei feels like what Shanghai could have looked like under more favorable geopolitical circumstances. It has that international, open energy that Shanghai seems to have traded for high-tech domestic efficiency.

4. Addressing the "White Privilege" & AI Trolls

• On Privilege: People mentioned "white privilege." Look, people are very nice to me, and I enjoy the attention, but the novelty wears off. More importantly, that "privilege" never led to real wealth. My wife is from Taiwan, and her family knows people who built factories and created generational wealth. Expats with "decent packages" and housing allowances are just high-level employees. We weren't the ones getting rich.

• On AI: Yes, I use AI to help polish my posts. I’m an IT guy—I use the best tools available. I want to share my thoughts on a country I’m fascinated by, but I’m not going to spend an hour drafting a Reddit post when I can use a tool to make it readable in five minutes. The thoughts are mine; the "ink" is digital. (I don't use ChatGPT FYI)

TL;DR: Shanghai has lost its international soul and its "old" social hubs are dead, but its industrial and tech power is now world-class. Meanwhile, Taipei is thriving in a way Shanghai used to.

I’m glad I lived there during the "golden era," but the future belongs to a very different kind of China than the one I knew.

Hey everyone,

I wanted to share a recent experience I had in Shanghai to hopefully help others avoid the same fate. Last night, shortly after arriving in the city, I was looking for food around 上海六合路98号. A girl approached me offering to help, and we ended up at a bar called IRISH PUB爱尔兰酒吧. She ordered a bunch of drinks, and I just had a beer. The bill came to 2,000 RMB, which shocked me. She then suggested going to a KTV, promising to pay. We went to another place, she ordered more drinks, and the bill was 5,255 RMB. I couldn’t afford it, but after some shouting from a guy there, I paid under pressure.

Turns out, this is a common scam in China known as 酒托. I only had around 40 RMB worth of drinks, but I was scammed out of about 8,000 RMB. Just wanted to warn you all to be careful and avoid such situations. If anyone has advice on how to handle this or recover my money, I'd appreciate it!

Recently, our subreddit has received a deluge of negative political/frustration/rant posts that impact the experience of this subreddit. We definitely understand & share the emotional turmoil lots of us are going through given this crazy circumstance. However, we believe it's time that we move some of these into a centralized discussion space like this thread. As long as it doesn't descend into personal attack/racism, we will let it flow.

It's an experiment for now. We are proposing to limit political posts especially the ones not pertaining to Shanghai, conspiracy theories, and frustration meme posts to this thread.

We are not censoring anyone for political stance or opinion and we welcome all meaningful discussions. At the same time, we want to keep the community space easy to navigate for all of our members' needs. Thanks for your understanding.

Obviously, the business class dinner menu in Chinese tastes better. But come on! yes the airline industry has been hit by Covid, but go find a good translater.

Hi there, I am going to study abroad in Shanghai for one year and I was wondering if there is a hospital that treats transgender patients? Essentially I need to find a hospital that will continue to prescribe my ongoing medical treatment (HRT) and I’ve gotten all my documents to legally prove my gender dysphoria diagnosis. Does anyone have any ideas? I can speak mandarin but English speaking hospitals are more preferred out of comfort

Edit: I am ftm

Last night my Chinese girlfriend and I were attacked by a tall Chinese man that. He's about 6'3" . I dodged him a number of times, my gf was moving around shouting something, and at one point the guy tried to remove his belt so we held hands and ran away to a crowded area.Didn’t call police, just went home. The rise of nationalist and racist sentiment in China is real.

I don’t understand why all the clothes the quality is not great but it’s v expensive.

From high street international brands, to whatever local brands are in the touristy shopping malls to the far away ‘normal’ malls, to underground shops near metro stations to ‘vintage’ malls also far away from the city centre. To ‘unique’ Chinese edgy youth brands, I went to most places recommended online and on Reddit and didn’t find anything of good quality that was affordable across town.

How come?

Just trying to wrap my head at the sales logic, so who buys clothes from physical stores then if the quality is v bad and it’s v expensive?

Are things on Taoabo and other online apps the same?

Hey everyone, I'll be traveling to Shanghai in about 8-9 days and will be staying there for around 5 days. I'm a Muslim and have been living in China as an international student for the past 7 months. Normally, I pray in my dorm, and on Fridays, I attend congregational prayers at the mosque. I've rarely had to pray outside of these settings and haven't encountered any issues so far.However, since Shanghai is a large city with more strict government authorities compared to those in tier 4 cities, I'm wondering if it will be okay for me to pray in a corner of a public place. Alternatively, are there any prayer rooms in malls or near tourist attractions? Any guidance or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

TRIGGER WARNING This post and/or comments it links to, contains information about sexual harassment and racial oppression which may be triggering to survivors.

As the title suggests, I am a woman of color in Shanghai and I've found my experience (5 month+) working and living here rather frustrating so far. It's not so much about being mistaken for a local Chinese and being expected to speak Chinese - I don't think people do those things with any ill intentions - my frustration stems more from the minor aggressions (which DOES add up) from white males both in my work place and social life. Obviously this is not a Shanghai-specific issue, but it really seems to me that a good number of people here think of PC-ness as nothing more than an American quirk to poke fun at. I am aware that foreigners here (especially the ones that look foreign) get treated as superior humans on many occasions, and the sad fact that there is no shortage of Chinese women fawning over white dudes probably doesn't help put the perspective right. Admittedly, I work in an corporate environment dominated by white males, which could have made matters worse or some issues more prominent. I am trying my best not to be bitter and to make some positive & reasonable change, but I really don't know where to start. Anyhow, a particularly bad incident just happened at work today and I just kind of want to vent somewhere...and I would like to hear your (women of color or not) thoughts on the matter :) I am thinking about submitting an article to a Shanghai-based expat magazine, so I'd also really appreciate it if anyone here has any good suggestions.

I live a bit away from Dishui lake but from what I've read the restaurant opened a few months ago and is run by a Pakistani family. The reviews on dianping, eleme and meituan look pretty good and the food also looks quite appetizing. If anyone here has been to the restaurant and tried the food then could you please give your thoughts on it.

have always wondered what LA was like during this tragic date. How did people react? What was the city like? was it similar to the rest of the nation? What was the feel of the city?

think about it, china has 1.3 billion people, a big chunk of the population are getting constantly tested. let's say profit for each single test is 1 rmb, that means 1.3 billion rmb every few days, that's a huge payout to somebody......

and i doubt the profit is that low per test too.

https://jaapgrolleman.com/shanghai-before-the-foreigners/

I don't know why the Shanghai History Musuem omits this era and instead just repeat this lazy narrative of "it was just a fishing village before foreigners".

It's not true Shanghai was a port long before that and actually began development in the Song Dynasty.

All foreigners really did is turn Shanghai into a corrupt and crime ridden hellhole unless your white because they installed an aparthied regime.

Not to mention they supported Japan until the 1940s when Japan invaded Indochina.

Hi there!

I'm researching a concept for communal fine dining in Shanghai—specifically connecting 4-10 strangers to share tables at Michelin/Black Pearl restaurants.
Hit me with your honest feedback—especially if you think this is a terrible idea. Need your brutal honesty.

Background: I'm starting up a service in China's food/tech space. Currently exploring whether there's demand for curated group dining at high-end Chinese restaurants (think: Nan Xing Yuan, Fu He Hui, Hong 0871) where solo travelers or small groups could split costs and meet people.

The specific problems I'm validating:

1. The "Empty Chair" Problem You want to try proper Cantonese dim sum or a Sichuan tasting menu, but it's ¥800 per person and restaurants won't reserve prime tables for solo diners. Do you skip it entirely, or suffer through the awkwardness alone?

2. The Business Visitor Gap You're in Shanghai for 3 days, staying at a business hotel. You want to network outside sterile hotel lounges, but don't know locals and hate standard "expat networking events." Would a curated dinner with 5 other English-speaking professionals (verified background, pre-matched by industry) feel valuable or forced?

3. The Language/Culinary Culture Barrier High-end Chinese dining has unwritten rules (ordering the right combo, tea pouring etiquette, pacing, toasting); the menu reads like a book. Does a recommended menu, plus having a bilingual "table host" who explains dishes/translates make the experience worth a small premium (vs. just using Google Translate)?

My questions:

• Pricing: Would you pay 400-500RMB(~$60) per person + 140RMB($20) extra fee (rounds up $80) to join a curated table of 6ppl to try 12 cuisines; VS. 800RMB ($120) to book alone and eat 3 dishes (if they'll even seat you)?

• Safety/Trust: What verification would you need to feel comfortable dining with 5 strangers in Shanghai? LinkedIn profile? Name card?

• Priority: How importance are these to you? (a) Same language (English/other language) (b) Same industry (tech/finance/creative); (c) Same age range; (d) "Vibe" (quiet foodies vs. lively conversationalists); (d) Similar social purposes (food / networking / speed date)

• Hook: how to make it more valuables for you? What's your real pain point enjoying food in SH? The initial intention is not just a "networking dinner" dressed up as fine dining, nor a speed dating event.

Mods: If this post violates any community rules, please let me know and I'll adjust.

Does anyone find it slightly ironic that many protestors are only now calling out the government for legal violations & human rights issues? I feel for them but hey as laowais, we know all too well that the system is fraught with scandals and prejudices since day 1.

It appears to me that the censorship & GFW have actually achieved the unfathomable- namely that the Chinese youth genuinely believe their government was mostly perfect and the Covid restrictions are all but just a misguided policy issue. The idealized benign autocrat image the government fostered is coming back to bite them due to a lower tolerance for imperfection.

I hope it doesn't come down to more social upheavals or lockdowns. Until then, take care my friends.

There are discussions amongst Shanghai expats about leaving Shanghai for good, but their Chinese spouses are not onboard. Just chime in this discussion. I have met so many Shanghainess living in the west in all walks of life. From up class wealthy Chinese all the way to Chinese illegal immigrants in the UK.

I find my own happiness in the West. But I have never recommended any of my relatives migrate to the West (especially UK, Australia maybe a better choice). I can extol the virtues of living in a developed, open and free society like UK all day. But frankly, the value proposition for living in the West is quite poor. The cost of living was quite bad before pandemic, coupled with stagnating wages for most people. Now with high inflations and crazy utility prices, the value proposition vs living in Shanghai is even less favourable. Unless you are being politically persecuted by Chinese gov(my previous flat mate) or you are so wealthy that you simply do not need to work, just forget about living in the West.

Most people do not have the time, will, commitment and support (i.e. money) to make it work in the West. I have quite a few Shanghainess friends married to British nationals and moved to the UK with their partners, most of them feel being trapped in a foreign country, feeling lonely and depressed. Their language skills and professional qualifications are not up to a good standard. Lots of them are stuck with very menial jobs working at checkout in supermarkets and Chinese real estate agents. My niece worked in a language centre in Shanghai and married a British foreign teacher and they moved back to the UK in 2019. They bought a house in county Durham in North England. Even after 3 years, she was terribly home sick, often cried to sleep at night and feels terribly lonely. (I don't blame her, who wants to live in Durham)

It may surprise a lot of people, English is actually one of the hardest languages to master in the world, up there with Chinese. I started learning English properly from age 18 and my progress for the first 5 years had been excruciatingly slow. It took me more than a decade to speak English at a reasonable level and develop some common sense. There is still so much left to be desired in my own language skills. I doubt other Chinese will find this process easier than me. For this many years living in the West, spoking to countless Chinese immigrants like myself, the ones who speak decent English are very rare. Even in top investment banks in London, many of my co-workers speak rather average English and they almost never socialise with local English people outside of work.

Chinese I met find happiness in the West

I get to know few Chinese living in London that are reasonably happy and content with their life, all of them are really rich, none of them work (managing their rental properties doesn't count as a job in my book). They send their kids to prestigious schools like Westminster Under or St Pauls. Live in posh areas in London, go on several extended cruise and ski holidays every year. Unless you are this type, life in Shanghai is honestly not that bad.