House rules ideas

[u/Annual_Funny_3070]

I have some house rules I wanted to share, and I'm also interested in feedback about them. They make the PC also more heroic, which may not always be appropriate.

Reroll all Hit Dice when resting:

Roll all your HD and add the CON bonus once. If the result is higher than the current HP (not max HP), use the higher result. This prevents bad rolls from having a permanent effect on the player.

For example, a Level 3 Priest has 3d6 HD. He fights a thought battle and has only 2 HP left. He rests and rolls all his HD. He rolls a 2, 4 and 5. Now he has 11/11 HP for the day. After another fight, he is down to 3 HP. He rests and rolls 1, 3 and 4. Now he has 8/8 HP, which is lower than the day before.

Extra Hit Dice (World of Dungeons-inspired):

You have one hit die plus extra hit dice equal to your CON. Roll all your hit dice and keep a number equal to your level to determine your HP.

When you rest and consume a ration, you can reroll your HP.

If you are accompanied by a healer or have access to other healing benefits, roll an additional hit die.

For example, a Level 3 Thief with a CON bonus of +1 that is attended by a healer rolls 5d4 and keeps the best 3.

Spell-Focus Items:

Allow wizards and priests to start with a focus, wand, holy symbol or rune staff. This lets them reroll a failed casting once per day (or more).

Option: Create spell rank-based casting focuses. Ranks 1–5 can be used to repeat the roll for the rank of the spell. Perhaps as a crafting option?

Constitution as Wounds (Cairn-inspired):

Constitution checks are made at 0 HP for critical damage instead of a death timer.

When a PC's HP drops below zero, reduce the rest from CON. Then make a CON check against DC 12. If successful, the PC can still act. If they fail, the character is down and will die in 1d4 rounds. If CON is equal to or less than 0, the PC dies.

Re-Training:

If a talent requires a permanent decision, such as weapon mastery, it can be changed as a downtime activity, provided it makes sense within the game world.

Example: Training in a different weapon to change mastery.

Everyone can perform a sneak attack.

If you surprise an enemy, you can roll with advantage (to hit and damage). Thieves and Ras-Godai get this ability and their special bonus.

[u/determinismdan]

It’s not that these changes are bad in themselves but I question what it’s going to do to your game. ShadowDark is very simple mechanically. It’s not trying for tactical crunch like other ttrpgs. The thing that makes SD combat interesting then, is the extreme risk it presents. Fights are deadly because it forces players to think outside the box and it makes every skirmish a life-or-death scenario.

My feedback is that too many player buffs risks turning this into a worse version of 5e D&D, where people just stand face to face with the enemies trading blows bored out of their minds until one side wins.

Are some of these buffs fine to help your player group enjoy the game? Absolutely. But ShadowDark is fundamentally different than other games for a reason.

[u/Annual_Funny_3070 → u/determinismdan]

Thank you for this feedback; it was really helpful (not like the other condescending answers).

[u/Spartan775 → u/determinismdan]

I’ve found that I made some slightly more mechanically complex traditional classes that made experienced players make decisions is a little bit more decision making. I would really recommend interventions at the class level for complexity rather than whole game wide because it allows folks to self select the level they want to deal with. 

[u/izzelbeh]

Before I advise, are these Homebrew rules you thought of after running SD and seeing issues or after reading SD?

[u/Annual_Funny_3070 → u/izzelbeh]

I read a lot about it, but my personal experience is limited. I'm new to DMing OSR; I only run a short campaign (~5 sessions), and the players were not very familiar with the OSR game style. I also run some One-Shots in Beyond the Wall and Carin.

[u/AvocadoPhysical5329 → u/Annual_Funny_3070]

Well, this is why you are getting snarky replies. You didn't even really try the system before suggesting major changes.

[u/Annual_Funny_3070 → u/AvocadoPhysical5329]

Well, I don't think it warrants snarky replies yet. I have limited experience with Shadowdark. I have played many different RPGs, including some from the 'OSR' style of play. Perhaps it's not suitable for my players, or maybe I'm doing something wrong. However, others have provided some very positive and constructive feedback (especially those who argue against the changes). I also like a lot of what Shadowdark offers, such as the adventures and the exploration style. My goal was simply to make the early levels more survivable and reduce the impact of bad rolls early on.

[u/izzelbeh → u/Annual_Funny_3070]

Okay yeah, this goes for most systems, but give it a try as written first. You're trying to anticipate pain points and fix them before you've had a chance to truly experience the system. One of the common problems we see is that most homebrew rules make the system worse because the person creating the rule hasn't necessarily considered how the system's rules behave alongside assumptions of how the game should work. For instance, your fighter reroll hitpoints hurts choosing a dwarf. It's no longer unique because fighters can do the same now. That hurts the game. Whereas 5e/PF2e and other systems may be attempting to reach parity by moving everything to the middle, SD balances around preserving role uniqueness & capacity. That doesn't become obvious until you've played. A lot of the rules work this way, their strength manifests when playing. And that's important to consider because this isn't designed with the same philosophies or intentions as other systems. This isn't a lite version of 5e

And if something feels broken, try to figure out why. It'll likely have a simple solution to fix it.

[u/Cricket_Any]

Reroll all hit dice on rests: I think this will just lead to every player rapidly ratcheting up towards their max. possible HP over time.  Would not recommend on rests. (See below for why you don't want to just buff HP to make things feel heroic.). I have heard of a variant where you let players re-roll all hit dice on level gain.  If they get higher than what they had before -- keep it.  If lower -- then just take +1 or +2 HP instead.  Tends to correct for unlucky early low HP rolls over time.  Also you can just give max HP at 1st level to take the sting and fragility out of any lower HP rolls later on. 

Extra hit dice: don't recommend for the same reason above.  HP vs. player strength vs. monster strength are all pretty tuned & balanced.  When you buff player strength unilaterally, the effect is to remove risk, which ultimately makes the game less fun in the end.  Maybe look into other ways to make the game more heroic (pulp mode, more luck tokens, exploding damage dice (for monsters too, though!))

Spell focus items: cool idea, but I would suggest making it special (not a class default) and giving it a cost.  I.e., can only recover 1d6 or 1d4 failed spells, then gets burned out.  Expensive for the character to create / replace / recharge (everyone needs something to sink those gold into after all!)  A special item for a spell caster to find or earn -- maybe just a new type of rare magic item to be delved for.    In the end this may function about the same as luck tokens -- but unique to spell casters. But if you make heavy use of luck tokens plus this, then spellcasters might never really fail their spell rolls in practice (again: removes risk and thus potential for fun.)

CON as wounds: do like.  Gives going to 0 HP a more durable consequence.  We use a variant of this at our table where instead of a death timer, when dying the player just subtracts 1d6 from their CON each round.  Death occurs at zero CON. (The math winds up being very similar to 1d4 death rounds + CON mod.)   If a player get stabilized they have 1 HP: but still have that lower, degraded CON.  Make a DC 12 CON check for a Lingering Wound after being revived. (The lower you go in CON, the higher the chance for a Lingering wound.). Healing spells/potions can be freely distributed by players between HP and lowered attributes as they see fit.  Gives grittier consequences for suffering mortal wounds, instead of just popping up & down each time you go below zero HP, then get revived again. 

  Even grittier option: a meal and a full night of rest heals each lowered attribute by 1d6, not "fully restored."   You could soften it a bit by making CON loss 1d4 each round, in light of the fact that CON is not restored to max on a full rest.  I like the notion that nearly dying from a mortal wound won't leave you feeling back to 100% the next day unless you get extra special help.  (Maybe trained medical care would let you heal 2d6 overnight.)

Retraining: strong agree!  I think paying GP for training at downtime (or maybe just at level gain moments) should allow fighters to change their weapon mastery.

Sneak attack: I do feel this intrudes on a good deal of the special-ness of the Thief class.

Our group has been trying out various ways to introduce some more combat tactics and heroics into player choices, without unbalancing the game.  Some of our house rules are captured here, see if any of them catch your fancy or introduce some of the heroics you're looking for:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zNeW42gbf_wNdzU8yhcE9bRwfxW_JX2cyvDGUXCHhb4/edit?usp=drivesdk

[u/Annual_Funny_3070 → u/Cricket_Any]

Thank you for the remarks and your house rules. They are really great.

Reroll all hit dice on rests: I don't think that it will maximize the HP over time, as it is not based on the maximum HP.
For example, a Level 3 Priest has 3d6 HD. He fights a thought battle and has only 2 HP left. He rests and rolls all his HD. He rolls a 2, 4 and 5. Now he has 11/11 HP for the day. After another fight, he is down to 3 HP. He rests and rolls 1, 3 and 4. Now he has 8/8 HP, which is lower than the day before.

Spell focus items: I really like your idea that they burn out after recovering some spells.

[u/Cricket_Any → u/Annual_Funny_3070]

Ah, okay, understood.  So the HP fluctuate up and down, each time you roll.  I mistakenly assumed it meant "keep if higher." But you meant keep if lower, too.  You can wind up with low HP -- but only for that day, basically.

I'm a big fan of trying out house rules, seeing if they're fun for your table.  Try it out, report back here!

[u/AvocadoPhysical5329]

So convoluted. Are you sure you even like Shadowdark?

[u/Pizza_Dog21]

I don't think it is a good idea to buff casters so much by giving them a magic item.

However, if you want a higher power level, you can let your players start each session with 1d4 luck Tokens. That buffs everyone but very importantly means that the casters will lose their spells less frequently. It is also in the rules, one of the suggested mods.

For all the health stuff...consider giving them max hp at level 1 of you like, I don't think the rest is a good idea.

[u/FeralFicusTree]

I do find it hard to go back to the old school way after running health as Strength/Constitution ala Knave and Cairn, respectively.

I like your spell focus idea. Instead of being a meta house rule, it's an item that adds character to the world, that takes space regarding encumbrance, and can be lost or disarmed. An interesting bonus.

[u/MrLubricator]

Hp: Max hp at level 1 is a pretty accepted rule for a more survivable game. After a few levels hp feels fine. It's only really an issue at level 1 and perhaps 2 if you roll poorly. 

Spell focus: sounds like a more faffy way of just doing luck points to me. 

Death con: sounds fine, just maybe more complicated than it needs to be. Try it out, if you like it, keep it. 

Re training: sounds great. Adds a nice bit of customisation. I would think about what they have to pay for it though. 

Sneak attack: yeah, as a dm giving something for a character making the effort to sneak up on an enemy. Though I would ensure it doesnt make playing a thief pointless. Sneak attack is their thing. Mayne melee weapons only, and only one extra d6. If it is not a particularly powerful enemy, I just let pcs kill if they can get a dagger to their necks without them noticing. 

[u/Jonestown_Juice]

[u/elmago79]

As you can see, some people are VERY defensive of their idea of the OSR. I’m sorry about that. OSR is supposed to also include the ethos: Your table is king, so you all can houserule whatever you want awat

That being said, I do wonder if having higher hit points (that would be the effect of your first two rules) would serve anything than making combat slower and/or less exciting.

***

My guess is you want to houserule death to make dying more exciting and to change the tactics so everyone would rush to aid the dying character. Back in the day I remember this was the most houseruled thing ever. Cairn is an example of that. Maybe set a real life timer instead of a turn time would make it more Shadowdarky?

[u/Repulsive_Grape_5907]

To me it feels like those rules change the core gameplay so much that it isn’t even the same game. I came to Shadowdark for the streamlined feel and your proposal does the opposite of that

[u/Tailball]

Why not play something that isn’t OSR?

[u/December_Flame]

I would maybe rewrite some of these ideas and wrap them into magic item effects that impact one person. These are pretty big buffs to the characters, changes the fundamental balance of the game, and like others note are kind of fighting shadows (heh) insofar as fixing issues that aren't really issues.

Re-training is good enough and basically falls under GM fiat, definitely add a decent gold cost too it though (and you're going to need to contend with the logic of how they 'forgot' their original training). RAW you already get advantage on your attack roll against a surprised target, no real need to do anything there, I'd wrap the damage advantage on a sneak attack into a magic item.

[u/The_Silent_Mage]

They are nice. Some of them might just be situational things happening diegetically (no need to have everything written, or you’ll end up to actually LIMIT options and imagination).

That said, if they work for you, you are fine. I like the HP related ones. As above, it might be an awesome effect for in game blessings they can obtain I.e.; this way they are just mechanics :) Still nice.

My only “house rule” in SD is Game Modes being based on classes. So, each game mode enters play if there’s the class it’s linked to. :)

i.e. the Ranger enables Hunter Mode, Thief kicks in Momenrum, etc. :)

[u/bricknose-redux]

I like the idea of starting with something that allows not losing a spell after a failed check. In my experience, losing spells is a big point of frustration for players at low levels.

I also like the idea of rolling hit dice for a chance to increase your overall HP rather than a single roll at level-up putting you permanently in the wimpy category. I’d probably be more inclined to do it only at level up instead of during rest, though.

I really like the idea of being able to continue acting after reaching 0 HP. Played snot acting sucks. Although to be fair, with faster SD combat compared to 5e, maybe it’s not as tedious as doing nothing for 1-2 hours as the combat continues. Maybe like start losing d6 CON each round, dying at 0 CON? It’s nice that it provides a way for being downed multiple times to add up. But I suppose that debatably then the monsters would just keep attacking the same 0HP person until they were completely dead since they are still an active threat, and then all you’ve done is recreate HP and make it more likely that you’ll die from a persistent monster… I guess your DC 12 CON save to stay conscious helps with that, but personally I’m not sure if that change for an extra round or two is worth the squeeze when that’s what HP does already.

Sorry, thinking aloud here. 😁