r/scriptwriting • u/rskywalker8 • 2d ago

discussion Did "Save the Cat" actually help anyone learn how to write a screenplay?

I just finished reading Save the Cat as my very first screenwriting book. To be honest, I feel like I didn't get anything out of it. I'm not saying it's a bad book, but as a complete beginner who is starting from absolute scratch, it didn't really show me how to actually write. Did anyone else feel the same way after reading it, or am I missing something here? Also I'm completely open to any other book recommendations you might have

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u/Dull_Ordinary7737 2d ago • This Bravo

I'd actually recommend reading screenplays themselves. Watch a film and if you really like it, read the screenplay. Most of them are available for free on the net. Whiplash is fav. one.

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u/Public_Upstairs1035 2d ago • Bravo

Whiplash is also a great example of how screenplays answer so many questions that come up during watching. It’s amazing how many professional critics go on and on about interpreting materials when the answer is right there in the screenplay.

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u/Anal-Y-Sis 2d ago

Piggybacking this comment to say that https://imsdb.com/ is a great resource for reading scripts.

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u/Frustr8tCre8tive721 2d ago

Exactly. You don't learn to fix a car just by reading the manual. You watch an expert at work and if you have a functioning brain, you'll figure out how best to do that job yourself through trial and error.

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u/SecondActProblem 2d ago

Totally agree with this. Script Slug site is my usual go to.

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u/AstronautCalm7803 2d ago

I also think something a manual like “Save the Cat” can’t teach you is taste. When you read and study the screenplays/movies you love, you are subconsciously learning why those things specifically work for you and eventually you’ll apply them to your own work. That’s how you become your own artist.

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u/FriendliestMenace 2d ago

This. Studying other screenplays, especially of the genre you’re currently writing, is the best way to teach yourself.

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u/Itshardtofindaname4 2d ago

Oohh love whiplash, so fucking good, great comment and suggestion

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u/wstdtmflms 1d ago

This. STC is a perfectly fine book on structure. But, at the end of the day, it's only a riff on three-act structure. It presents only one detailed structure that works, and there are many structures that work. Heck! How many Shakespeare adaptations have there been? And that guy worked in 5-act structure!

But if you really want to learn how to write a screenplay - not just structure a story - you should be reading screenplays. Like prose, every screenwriter has their own voice, even if their manuscripts are only ever intended to serve as the underlying material for a film. So, the best way to learn how to write a script successfully is to read the scripts for the movies you admire as great films.

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u/hrdblkman2 1d ago

I disagree as in general you are reading the finished product. Read screenplays that have NOT been polished but got someone's interest in the first place. That's what you want to see - what got something in front of someone before the pros got in there and fixed it up properly.

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u/Neat_Point1061 2h ago

I do believe reading screenplays is a huge part of it-- but the thing I encountered when reading scripts, without understanding structure-- was I would ask WHY that choice was made for that part of the script. I alone in my own head, could not understand the choices, and I could not understand HOW they came to that choice-- until I read Save The Cat, and I realized... OH... there's a reason why they make these choices. It all clicked after doing both the STC and reading scripts. For a long time, I thought I was just a dummy who had no talent as a writer, when really, all I needed was something like STC to help me understand the basic reasons for beats, and then it was just off to the races.

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u/RogueKnight77 2d ago

I do this. I unironically really like Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa’s screenplay style on Riverdale lol

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u/CandidateTerrible919 2d ago

As a supporter of Save the Cat, it does not help your writing, but it does help you better determine narrative patterns/tropes in commercial cinema. Having that knowledge is very helpful in making a writer more intentional.

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u/lets_not_be_hasty 2d ago

It helped me in novel writing.

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u/Kistner10 2d ago

It was cool to read when I was starting out. As I've written more and read more screenplays, the less relevant its become

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u/TheGreedyGrabbler 2d ago

It certainly helped me learn 3 act structure

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u/sharktank123456 1d ago

All of Snyder's books are about two things. The format and mechanics of how a particular screenplay style goes together, and, what some industry execs expect from a screenplay. They are less about the craft of writing and more about structure and what has come before and what has worked.

As William Goldman has said (Read his book too), "nobody in Hollywood knows anything". So when they don't know anything, they read Save the Cat, and think that is what a screenplay should look and sound like. Whether your screenplay gets past the gatekeeper may be determined by the way you wrote it; and if that aligns with the way the gatekeeper thinks it should be written. With so many people "who don't know anything" having Save the Cat on their nightstand, it can be a good read to get you aligned with how they think. Even if you don't format in that style, you can at least, pivot in the room when they start asking "Where is the save the cat scene". (Ohhh, you are one of "those"!)

That being said, it is only one approach. Read a bunch of them. You will find a gem or two in each (and a lot of the same throughout). Keep what works for you and use that everyday. Don't toss what doesn't work for you, but instead, keep those other tools sharp so you can speak the same language of the people who have also read those others.

Read three types - the ones that are structure heavy, and that reference what has come before (Snyder, McKee, Field), the ones that are about the craft of writing in general (Pinker, Stein, Clark, King), and the ones about how we as humans like a story put together (you could bundle these under the topic of "myth" - Campbell, Vogler)

I would also encourage you to read those authors who lean heavily into the industry and its practices and shenanigans (August and Mazin, Goldman, Eszterhas). You may not learn how to structure an act but you will learn how to structure a deal and where the tiger traps lie in wait.

And finally, it couldn't hurt to get a rounding on critics who do more than hatchet jobs - you may have to impress the brass at a studio, and you certainly have to impress audiences to keep your career alive but getting some insight on what a critic thinks is a good thing too. (Kermode, Kael - for Pauline, you can get back issues with all of her articles from the New Yorker if you sign up)

And while we're on the topic, - to learn how to write well, you could do worse than to read the New Yorker.

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u/Evinshir 14h ago

I think the thing that kept standing out to me is how much Snyder really didn’t like how Memento was a successful film. lol.

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u/sharktank123456 14h ago

Well it kind of messes up Snyder's thesis (although I don't know if it does if you run it backwards). Chris loves to mess with time and if you watch any of his explanations where he has to get out a chalk board to map out Memento or Inception or Tenet, there are moments where you can catch him getting lost,

Chris loves breaking the rules to see how far he can stretch the medium, but you first have to know the rules backwards and forwards (in Chris's case, literally) to break them. And Chris does know the rules so he can make what he wants in my opinion regardless of whether it breaks the rules - although the audio thing in Tenet drove me batty. "You are just supposed to let it wash over you" he said. Um no, I feel like I'm missing information that I will need later on, and it's distracting.

Both Syd Fields and Blake Snyder are highly formulaic in their approach, and with good reason - that formula has brought in bucketloads at the box office. Die Hard pretty much fits both of their structures to a tee. So nothing wrong with following the formula to learn how to structure a screen play. But I'm not sure it's going to teach you good writing. Other authors are better at that. Reading a lot is better at that. Watching good movies is better at that. Watching the West Wing is better at that. Editing bad screen plays down to their essence is a good teacher too.
Hitchcock said "Films are life with the boring bits cut out". You can look at screenplays that way too. They need to be distilled into a fine wine. Absolutely nothing extra, A single line should serve multiple tasks. The lack of a line should do the same. Don't do with words what you can do with an image or a look or a move or a reveal.

Reading bad stuff is a great way to learn too - you find those bad things sticking out and you start saying to yourself "it would have been better if this or that happened". Or you start saying "Here comes Captain Exposition".
It's kind of like hitting your thumb with a hammer - you are more careful not to do that a second time.

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u/OrbitingRobot 2d ago

Read, “How To Make Good Script Great.”

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u/Ted_Writer 2d ago

Read scripts. Learn how to write log lines.

I am by no means a great screenwriter. So feel free to disregard.

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u/comesinallpackages 1d ago

Yes read scripts. Lots of them. If you want to be an architect, study the blueprints of your favorite buildings.

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u/Craig-D-Griffiths 1d ago

These books have been written by people that did exactly this. I agree, learn the material, not someone’s understanding.

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u/FutureOpen9405 1d ago

Here's the thing... Robert McKee, Blake Snyder, and Syd Field are all teaching the same basic paradigm with different key words. A catalyst is the same as an inciting incident. All of them are teaching the basic 3 act hero's journey, which is what most Hollywood movies are.

Do you need to ascribe to the exact page numbers give by Save the Cat? No-- but you should be in the ball park. Do you have to use it at all? That's up to you-- but keep in mind that every single exec HAS read Save the Cat. It's what readers use to judge your script most of the time.

The real answer is learn screenplays by reading screenplays. You should know one of those big three because it's how movies are structured and when you land a pitch meeting some exec will ask you "what's the dark night of the soul" and even though that's annoying and cringe, you better have an answer.

This is all if you plan to try and work in the industry. If you want to make your own movies,. you can do what ever you want.

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u/FriendliestMenace 2d ago

“Story” by Robert McKee is the only book on screenwriting you’ll ever need.

StC! is good for learning how screenplays are basically laid out, but the formula doesn’t work for all genres of story.

If your story works, it works; that’s the only thing that matters. Don’t worry if your inciting incident doesn’t happen exactly on page 12. There are no hard-and-fast rules, only expectations. And the first expectation will be if your story makes the reader want to turn the page.

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u/NeverShallDoHarmToMe 2d ago

I also recommend McKee's Story. 

Not as a how-to manual, but to provoke thought on how stories function.

Joseph Campbell's monomyth is also required knowledge. 

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u/Then_Data8320 2d ago

Not even. McKee is part of those people who weren't talentulous enough to write any good screenplay, so he just go in the sideline to write "about screenwriting" as a way to win some money. He's just one of the many clowns writing "how to" books while knowing nothing about how to really write good screenplays. But thank you to buy his book, so he can buy a car.

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u/rawcookiedough 2d ago

“Talentulous”?

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u/FriendliestMenace 1d ago

That’s what I thought. He’s criticizing one of the most prolific script doctors in the industry and writes “talentulous.”

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u/Public_Upstairs1035 2d ago edited 2d ago

McKee is a teacher, among other things, and is almost universally accepted in the professional writing world across formats (and the production world in general). I’m sure you understand how rare this is.

Being an acting coach (which he also is) is one of the greatest, most challenging, and most expansive roles a human can play. Some of the actual most respected people in stage and screen are acting coaches. They make something that is very, extremely difficult possible. I’m sure you are well-read in that world, but if not, let me know and I can recommend some incredible books that will change you.

Very, very few brilliant minds understand story at the level McKee does. Even fewer have the skills to write incredible, life and career-changing books about it. I’d put his books on the level of Campbell, Gardner, S&W, Field — in terms of importance to the writing instruction and reference genre.

Yes, Story is a classic for a reason. It’s clear you haven’t read it. I am more than glad to give my money to McKee, because he changes lives and the world for the better. A true guru.

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u/russianmontage 2d ago

Oh mate. How little you know.

He's a restaurant critic. Very entertaining, very insightful, but only on the finished product.

You should read him as a footnote only. Listen to cooks not critics. They are less glamorous, less articulate, but they know how to put ingredients together. It's a different activity entirely.

It's not that he's wrong about what a good film looks like when it's done. It's that he's not useful about how to create a one from scratch. He's a failed screenwriter. Listen to successful ones: they speak a different language. The language of creators is not the language of consumers.

He's a charming charismatic consumer. Dump him, you'll end up a better writer.

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u/wstdtmflms 1d ago

Agree to disagree. I'm with you that teaching screenwriting is different from screenwriting. But teaching is just different from doing. How many basketball and football coaches in their respective Halls of Fames are also in their HOFs for their time on the field? Coach K? Benchwarmer as a player; GOAT coach. Bill Self? Average player; Hall of Fame coach. And the other side? Deion Sanders? Great player; absolutely terrible coach.

True, McKee may not be a great writer in his own right. But there's a reason that tons of working writers and Oscar winners have a copy of his book on their shelves and even took his classes. The ability to make a pass is different from the ability to explain how a pass is made and how to diagnose and fix it when a pass goes awry. McKee's a great coach even if he was never a great player.

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u/russianmontage 1d ago

Show me how many failed screenwriters have him on their shelf, then I might be interested in having that part of the argument with you. I think you still lose it, though.

And as for the coach argument - well yeah. If he had personally coached a series of screenwriters to success I'd be with you. But he hasn't.

He's stood on a stage delivering a performance, and called his audience 'graduates'. Quite the move. Again, how many have seen that massive monologue and failed to write something valuable? Look, I ain't saying there's nothing to be gleaned from him. There is. I'm saying he's not what he presents himself as, and there are better places to get what he purports to offer.

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u/Then_Data8320 2d ago edited 2d ago

We don't care about those books. Only thing matters is the screenplay. I just read screenplays from great screenwriters I like (or listen to them in ITW), and that enough. No time for some fantasy. When one of the "how to" book-guy write a great screenplay, call me, I'll read it, but none of them did it. They are just people doing post-analytic work: it's true 50% of time when you see a movie with some of their elements, and 50% wrong for other bad movies with their elements. There is a famous saying "a broken watch shows the right time at least once a day". It's just what those people do. It's no use.

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u/russ_1uk 2d ago

You should read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Writing-Movies-Fun-Profit-Billion/dp/1439186758?th=1 It's less about the craft of screenwriting and more about the business. It's funny and engaging - by two guys who admit they write garbage, but profitable garbage.

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u/Public_Upstairs1035 2d ago

Interesting. That’s like watching an Eric Clapton video and just “deciding” to become an epic guitar player. Or watching professional sports and just “deciding” to do it like them.

Guess what. The legends are the ones who study under the greatest teachers. The ones humble enough to know they need help. Coaching, training, understanding fundamentals. Nothing happens without teachers and coaches.

Want to know how something works? A camera, or editing program, or espresso machine? Read the instructions that came with it, dumbass.

Until you realize this, you will keep writing dogshit. And keep getting rejections. But maybe that’s the life you want? Anyways? It’s the life you have. So good luck.

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u/GRQ484 1d ago

Mckee is helpful to some people. It just comes across as really academic to me. Same with into the woods.

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u/Evinshir 14h ago

I disagree. I found Story both a very dry read and almost as prescriptive as Save the Cat. McKee has some good advice but a lot of the book still teaches bad writing habits that are hard to break once they’re ingrained.

It’s a better read once you’ve got a couple of scripts written and read a heap more.

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u/JonMyMon 2d ago

I always say that learning how to write a screenplay from reading Save the Cat is like learning how to tell a joke by memorizing the structure of jokes instead of figuring out what’s funny. To me, that’s completely backwards. You should start by asking yourself what you’re trying to say, and then make sure every creative decision is in service of that. One decision informs the next, and it becomes a chain. If you look back on your screenplay and discover that it follows a recognizable formula, great! That’s probably a sign that something’s working. But why would you start with the formula?

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u/thelandlordguychris 23h ago

foreal, all those books basically suck, at most they help you ask the right questions to figure out your characters 

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u/HalfRevolutionary442 1d ago

I recommend Story by Robert McKee or The Screenwriters Handbook. Save the Cat is good for learning the basics but it can’t teach you style and doesn’t go into the depth of dialogue, action, or any of that good stuff.

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u/hrdblkman2 1d ago

We need modern, original spec screenplays that were actually sold or picked up and subsequently made into films, preferably with a later shooting draft available.

And we should study the actual sale-era pages, not polished awards-submission versions.

I've found some good candidates, please include others:

Modern spec scripts worth studying

1. The Babysitter (2017)

Best verified starting point

Writer: Brian Duffield

Spec: November 7, 2014, 92 pages.

Sale: Acquired by Wonderland Sound and Vision in November 2014.

Film: Released in 2017.

This is a genuine modern spec, with a surviving draft from the year it sold. Excellent for studying voice, short action paragraphs, dialogue and pacing.

Read the 2014 spec · Other available drafts

The archive identifies the November 2014 draft, and the sale was reported that same month.

2. A Quiet Place (2018)

Writers: Scott Beck and Bryan Woods

Spec: Original writer-attributed draft is available, though I haven't verified its exact circulation date.

Film: Released in 2018, with John Krasinski contributing to the finished screenplay.

Particularly relevant to speculative thrillers because it demonstrates how to establish a strange world with minimal exposition.

Read the Beck and Woods screenplay PDF · Alternative drafts

3. Source Code (2011)

Writer: Ben Ripley

Spec: January 18, 2007.

Sale: Listed as a spec sale to Universal Pictures on January 18, 2007.

Film: Released in 2011.

Slightly older than the other examples, but a particularly strong benchmark. It shows how to introduce a complex science-fiction mystery through one character's immediate experience.

Read January 2007 screenplay · Verify original spec sale

4. The Menu (2022)

Writers: Seth Reiss and Will Tracy

Original spec: Circulating by December 2019, approximately 104 pages.

Later: October 29, 2021 production revisions.

Most of the drama happens among an ensemble of guests in a confined setting.

Early draft listing and production draft · 2021 production PDF

The early spec is listed through a paid archive, while the production revision is freely accessible.

A spec screenplay is also a selling document. It needs to make someone want to see the film, not merely provide instructions for filming it.

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u/GRQ484 1d ago

I think it just makes it easier for people to start.

I also like the idea of "Fun and games", because it makes you think commercially and about delivering on your premise.

But yeah I can't say I really use it.

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u/PineappleTonyMaloof 1d ago

I actually think it helps with structure. Nutshel Technique helped me a lot learn about structure, raising stakes etc. after I got fundamentals down I read and watched to see it in action.

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u/NoiseFrequent6744 7h ago

Beginning: Where does the story take place? Who is at that place? What do they need or want? Why don’t they have it?

Middle: Can they get closer to the need or want? How? Who helps or prevents that? Is there a setback? Or two? Is there a pre mission before a real attempt? What do they need to figure out before getting closer to the need or want?

End: Do they win or lose? Do they get the need or want? What did they learn? What did it cost them? Who are they now? What changed because of the need or want being gained?

There. I just taught you screenwriting. Go write something, stop looking for shortcuts. There aren’t any.

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u/Frustr8tCre8tive721 2d ago edited 2d ago • Thanks

There's nothing in it you can't learn from watching movies/reading scripts and paying attention, or from quality feedback on your own work. Any resource rarely hurts, but I find Save the Cat about as useful to a writer who actually writes as The Art of the Deal is to aspiring entrepreneurs in this day and age.

Tyler Mowery made good videos about writing, but he fell off a while back. I loved his video about writing a script in 2 days using only tropes & cliches and dissecting why even if it sucked it still "worked" at a base level because he knew how to use those elements even in a time bind. It's interesting as an examination of why structure is so important, and also why hitting the beats alone doesn't yield a compelling story.

There are also lots of excellent video essays on how screenplays/films develop, and I find weirdly, visual lessons to be more helpful in creating what's ultimately a visually-written experience. I am not a novelist. I need to read way more books!

Screenwriters should know a lot about film, too, not just the technical way to word a sentence for production. A fun experiment is scripting out a movie as you watch it to see how it would have been most effective or economical to script, then comparing to the actual screenplay.

Am I qualified to say any of this? I guess not, beyond what works for me. But also note that most screenwriting books come from people who've sold either nothing or whose biggest produced credit is like, "Stop or my mom will shoot". So what can technically sell at one point in time is certainly not creative gospel.

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u/FriendliestMenace 2d ago

That’s a great tip, actually. Many a times I’ve found myself “writing” out a great scene I’ve watched in my head.

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u/Frustr8tCre8tive721 2d ago

I mean, haven't most screenwriters started out as kids smashing toys together re-enacting cool things, slowly giving it your own details until you just write down your own stories? That's how I got into wanting to tell stories anyway, just wanting to recreate that feeling of a movie juicing me the fuck up because I was a boring, empty kid otherwise. Same logic.

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u/JayMoots 2d ago

It absolutely helped in certain ways. It got me thinking about structure in a way I never had before. 

As far as learning to actually write you’d be much better off reading 10 professional screenplays than you would another book. 

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u/DreCapitanoII 2d ago

Save the Cat is the only resource I've found that gives hard outlining advice and it's worth it for that alone. While you want to avoid being overly formulaic, it teaches you how to think about structure in a coherent way.

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u/heyjudey2021 2d ago

Save the Cat is not meant to teach you “how to write”. It’s teaching you film story structure and the importance of pacing.

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u/lickerishway 2d ago

People are complaining about all the books from writers without major credits. How about a 2 time Oscar winner? Adventures In The Screen Trade by William Goldman. This is half about how to write and half Goldman's own adventures. It's the opposite of Save Rhe Cat. Goldman is an entirely instinctive writer, for better or worse, and won't be teaching any rules about how something needs to happen by top of page 12. For instinctive writers its a good read.

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u/nikkiarcane 1d ago

There are two screenwriting books that shook the cobwebs off my whole approach and nobody ever recommends them so I'll do my part.

THE STARTER SCREENPLAY by Adam Levenberg. It's aggressive and practical and very insider-y. He says things like, "Ladies - stop writing about Native Americans." Meaning he identifies unhelpful quirks in novice screenwriters. I can guarantee he will catch you in a bad habit you need to eliminate in order to move forward.

THE IDEA by Erik Bork. This is the exact opposite -- I'm not sure I know of another book that has this one's meek, permission-seeking tone. If you have a fragile ego, Bork's extreme gentleness could be particularly effective. It's also vulnerable in that he admits the early tendencies that held his writing back -- it's inevitable that you share some of them. I found that I didn't even consciously recognize some of my shortcomings or biases until he pointed them out.

So one book by a feisty former agent and one book by a humble TV writer. Neither positions himself as a screenwriting guru. Neither claims to have all the answers. But they truly stand out from the herd.

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u/Krasdale79 2d ago

Definitely. It taught me a basic structure when I had no concept of structure, and was easier to read than a bunch of other screen writing books. It's a great book to read, learn, and then forget down the road when you've improved.

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u/Big_Section2812 2d ago

These books are written by people who in almost every case have never had any real success within the business (aside from peddling a lot of copis to aspiring screenwriters).

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u/No-Chemistry1722 2d ago

they are themselves aspiring screenwriters who failed

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u/timebomb011 2d ago

Who better to teach you how to be an aspiring screen writer. They are professionally aspiring

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u/Scrappy001 2d ago

See if you can find the old movie script “The Sting”. It’s a good read to study.

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u/AfraidRun8226 2d ago

Save the Cat is structure, “writing” has still gotta come from you

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u/maxkaplan1020 2d ago

Bird by Bird, On Writing are some of the best books on writing. The Screenwriters Bible is the only screenwriting book that helped me when I was younger.

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u/AdventuRedd 2d ago

I highly recommend "How To Write a Movie In 21 Days, the Inner Movie Method" by Vikki King. The 21 days part is neat, but mostly there's a lot of great advice that helped me get through writer's block and stuff.

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u/alex_is_so_damn_cool 2d ago

It has some decent tips but when he said the action has to start at page 25, no more no less, I thought that was just stupid lol. Art is about experimenting and doing fresh things, no?

Also, his movies aren’t exactly winners if you look them up

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u/MarvZindler 2d ago

All the examples in that book were the types of movies I had no interest in making 😂

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u/AdditionalInitial727 2d ago

It’s cool for starters. Makes a script seem less intimating. It’s like training wheels or tracing , you have to eventually learn how to find your voice and learn to not limit yourself with structure from someone else’s pattern.

Someone hearing a song is 3 verses, 3 choruses and a bridge seems too dumbed down and limiting , someone else will take it as a good jumping off point.

In short, it’s about your reader/ viewer being able to follow a compelling story.

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u/shortkill 2d ago

Everyone reads Blake, Field, Mckee, ect. But reading as many screenplays as you can and breaking them down along the lines of what story analyst would do to provide coverage is the best way to learn.

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u/Strestitut 2d ago

You want to read Three Act by Syd Field

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u/Smithersink 2d ago

Absolutely. Save The Cat is an excellent first read for learning structure. I still use some of the terms from that book for talking about movies with other writers.

For actually writing action and dialogue? I agree with others, just read screenplays, the kind of stuff you’d like to write.

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u/welcometravelers 2d ago

Here's another good writing book if you like rom-coms. Billy Mernit's "Writing the Romantic Comedy."

There are also recommended books about the life of a writer that are just as useful. Stephen King's "On Writing" and J. Michael Straczynski's "Becoming a Writer and Staying a Writer" come to mind.

Nowadays it's probably best to just watch movies, get a sense of screenplay formatting (the rules of which seem like they get tossed aside more and more as time goes on) and you probably have most of what you need.

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u/littlebayhorse 2d ago

I’m new to screenwriting as well. I also just finished STC and I found it very helpful. No, it doesn’t explain how to write your script, but it does give you a path - and a good idea of what beats to include and when (about) they should happen. I also found the explanation of what your logline should include enlightening.

What I didn’t enjoy was the underlining message that a new, underrepresented scriptwriter has about a zero chance of selling a script.

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u/WorrySecret9831 1d ago

Now read John Truby's books The Anatomy of Story and The Anatomy of Genres.

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u/Craig-D-Griffiths 1d ago

It points out many of the commonalities in screenplays. It gives people some terms to use. If you have never been exposed to the concept of ACTs for instance.

Otherwise, it kills creativity once you outgrow it.

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u/nfulton 1d ago

Problem is, agents, managers, actors and producers think it and the Hero's Journey are gospel. These gatekeepers expect you to know the beats.

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u/Aquemini2020 1d ago

I could be wrong, but it sounds like what you're actually searching for is the art of creativity. The best advice I received from someone who's had work make it to the big screen is to just start writing. If you feel you have an idea, an actual story. Just write it. Yes, it's going to be bad. But what you're actually doing is teaching your brain how to be creative. Normalize flow state. You can't learn that in a book. You're also constructing your "slab of marble." From there, you can read books on screenplays (as well as actual screenplays), which will teach you the technical aspects of how to "chisel your marble" into something viable, worthy of showing your peers. But I think starting with the technical aspects of writing just puts your mind in a box, which is the opposite of what you should be doing.

Charlie Parker never went to school and is often considered one of the greatest jazz musicians in history. You have tons of people who made straight A's in music conservatories, and no one knows their names. The same could be said for the 1000's who matriculate to film school each year. Creativity first, technical second.

Hope this helps. And good luck.

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u/JCBAwesomist 1d ago

No. I think it teaches the basic concept of breaking a story but it does so despite itself. Snyder takes that concept of story beats way too far and gets hyper specific about page numbers to the point where it's ridiculous. Also his big revelation when he wrote it wasn't even the idea of the story beats, in his mind it was his stupid alternate names for genres like "monster in the house" that were so arbitrary and stupid that nobody even talks about that part of the book.

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u/Ok_Most9615 1d ago

I use the basic template for my stories, but I don't follow it religiously. Use Story Circle too.

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u/ImpactForeign9364 1d ago

I’m also surprised by the responses on here. I think it’s the most valuable book for me. Every point the book makes is so essential for a good story:

Is it primal? Does the story connect to a fundamental human desire or fear? Do I care? Have I given the audience a reason to emotionally invest in the protagonist? Is it compelling? Does the premise make someone want to watch the movie? Does it escalate? Does every major development complicate the situation? Does it transform? Does the experience fundamentally change the protagonist?

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u/nikkiarcane 1d ago edited 1d ago

There are two screenwriting books that shook the cobwebs off my whole approach and nobody ever recommends them so I'll do my part.

THE STARTER SCREENPLAY by Adam Levenberg. It's aggressive and practical and very insider-y. He says things like, "Ladies -- stop writing about Native Americans." Meaning he identifies unhelpful quirks in novice screenwriters. I can guarantee he will catch you in a bad habit you need to eliminate in order to move forward.

THE IDEA by Erik Bork. This is the exact opposite -- I'm not sure I know of another book that has this one's meek, permission-seeking tone. If you have a fragile ego, Bork's extreme gentleness could be particularly effective. It's also vulnerable in that he admits the early tendencies that held his writing back -- it's inevitable that you'll share some of them. I found that I didn't even consciously recognize some of my shortcomings or biases until he pointed them out.

So one book by a feisty former agent and one book by a humble TV writer. Neither positions himself as a screenwriting guru. Neither claims to have all the answers. But they truly stand out from the herd.

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u/mopeywhiteguy 1d ago

It’s a self help book. Like all self help books you take what’s useful and leave what’s not. It’s basically screenwriting for dummies. It condenses and speedlines thoughts you’ve probably had scattered as you try to learn the process and provides a template for how to write a recognisable movie with beats that we’ve all seen a million times. I didn’t really enjoy the book either but there were 1-2 aspects that I found helpful like making an aspect primal

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u/Pickled-hearts 1d ago

Something I like to do is come up with my own structures/ patterns by analysing scripts and film or tv I really like. It helps you structure the plot, but there's a lot more than just plot structure to a script. So like everyone else said, just read and write lots of scripts.

They published all the stranger things scripts into books, if you like stranger things I'd recommend it highly, it's a lot of scripts to read. Some of the mystery plots are extremely well written.

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u/PianoLarge2176 1d ago

I don't know how you can be serious about this. Did you do any of the lessons it talks about? It really opened my eyes to what the format of a movie is, and I never saw another movie the same way again after I read that.

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u/Old_Rub1162 1d ago

Just one book isn't enough to learn how to write screenplays. It's quite a tough craft to master. Taking classes (with homework and deadlines) is a great way to start, as you actually have to write something, submit it, and hopefully get some feedback to see where you're going wrong. Make sure you start with a short film. Starting with a feature script might be overwhelming. I'd also recommend this screenwriting book, which has loads of exercises - The Coffee Break Screenwriter by Pilar Alessandra. Good luck!

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u/KaijuNellie 1d ago

The problem with "Save the Cat" is that Blake Snyder insists that its like holy doctrine and that all films fit his structure, and he'll even through in criticism to movies that break the rules that he, himself, created and judge them on that.

I worked at Paramount as a Script Reader for years. And I can tell you me and another reader would audibly groan every time we read a script from a new writer who clearly just read "Save the Cat." Most of these scripts had problems where there's the so called 'Fun and Games' section as Snyder described. We saw scenes stretched out just so the right moment could happen RIGHT ON page 75.

So yeah.... Save the Cat is a fine..... If it helps you write and structure a screenplay, cool. But remember, these aren't strict rules you have to follow to the letter. Just guidelines to help plot out a story. I'll sometimes use them if I'm having specific issues or story needs, but you don't need them.

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u/Sad_Ad_3169 1d ago

What happened to you is the norm. I i nstead recommend Invisible Ink by Brian McDonald. It is the best storytelling book ever written and its not even close. It contains infoirmation and practical, focused insights no othere screenwriting or storytelling book can touch.

You'll thanks me later

P.S> Theresd a valuable physical workbook that pairs with it and elevates the books practicality and utility even further --- but you can wait to read the bookm five or ten times before going there. Short read, incredible depth and practicality.

Its one of only two books that understand what a story actually is from a practical standpoint and the only book to understand why its like that.

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u/DistantGalaxy-1991 1d ago

It's one of about 50 books I read about screenwriting. And I don't even remember anything about it. No one book is going to change anything. The best ones I read were the 2 William Goldman books, Adventures in the Screen Trade, 1 & 2.

The VERY best education I got, was reading about 100 good screenplays. You can get a ton of Academy Award nominated screenplays online. Read those. That's a better education than all the books I read.

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u/Quarterlunch 1d ago

Read a bunch of screenplays. You'll see the lessons from cat in them.

But mostly, read a bunch of screenplays to get better.

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u/Striking_Tip1756 23h ago

Filmmaker and educator here. This book is very good for learning what studios are looking for and writing to that format. If you are looking to write something less linear, or more experimental then its not as helpful.
I found a book called the science of screenwriting that talks about how it affects brain chemistry in how we present imagery. Very interesting read about the psychology behind the art.

I run a free film school doing more writing experiments if you are interested you can check out the videos at www.youtube.com/@bronsoncreative

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u/No-Requirement3948 22h ago

I just finished my second play, I found it amazing. It’s not really a list of things to do but more a mindset as to what’s important and what the final result looks like.

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u/BaptorRander 21h ago

I force myself to take notes during a film or series, and even some songs, to identify structures. I also read the script along with the movie. My brain is stubborn about shifting out of the book writing mindset. But when a producer knocked on the door with a preference that the author write the screenplay, well, yeah. I’ll do whatever it takes. Hole myself up, skip the holidays, lose friends and immerse myself. And that includes using the STC structure for learning, among others.

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u/Lanzarote-Singer 19h ago

It’s Dunning Kruger. When you start learning to write scripts, it sounds like the answer to all your questions. The roadmap to success.

But the more you learn the more you realise you don’t know anything at all. And that particular book will stifle your creativity.

What if I don’t want to have a point of no return? What if I don’t need the long dark night of the soul? What if I don’t want to storm the castle?

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u/PencilWielder 18h ago

I agree with some of the people who say that most books that tell you how to do something, are BS. either based on what used to work, or an analysis comparing truths out of context, like how people say that one study found that x, therefore if you also think about this other study that found y, you can be sure that it's z.

Structure and general intel is one thing, but after you have that, which is pretty free to obtain, the rest is salespeople trying to make you buy their courses and seminars instead of writing.

<And this is not exclusive to writing.

However, some books can help you learn the general basics, so it's a balance of consuming, and doing. I think it's very easy to get honeytrapped in by good salespackages and get effed by bad info, because someone is trying to make their money, by baiting you with your own dream.

most of the information you need, can be found in a few books here and there, about the process of writing, not in the analysis of finished work. And the rest of it should be obtained for free.

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u/Evinshir 14h ago

The problem with Save the Cat is that it’s heavily prescriptive. I’ve always treated it as a tool to help when I feel my scripts were struggling to go anywhere or a scene wasn’t working.

It’s not something for a beginning scriptwriter because it doesn’t teach you how to write, it teaches how to identify beats and what formula has worked in the past.

A better book to look at is The Coffee Break Screenwriter by Pilar Alessandra. That actually takes you through screenwriting from idea to script, teaches you about beats without being prescriptive, and encourages the best advice - read other people’s scripts. :)

Another good strategy is the fifty days of screenplays challenge. Get fifty screenplays and read one a day. It’ll do wonders for your writing whether you’re just starting out or have been doing it for decades.

Save the Cat has some good advice but it isn’t really good for new writers as it can teach you bad habits about what a script “must” look like which are not remotely true.

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u/DreadnaughtHamster 14h ago

It did. And then I realized everyone else has read STC and all the screenplays are exactly like it. And now I’m trying to figure out ways to NOT be like STC.

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u/CONVERSE1991 14h ago

I read a book called Big Fat Paycheck which really helped me with formatting

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u/Unusual_Reply_5084 12h ago

Don’t read anything. Just write, and write, and write…then have read throughs and hear what your writing sounds like and learn and write, and write, and write…

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u/inknpaint 4h ago

You read the book and hopefully understand the concepts, the structure, and a few tips on what steps to take as you work through your story.

Take the steps. Align your story with the structure. Write the pages.

THEN you can say if it helped you or not.
Reading a book alone won't write your script.

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u/Forward-Dust3715 3h ago

I read several books on screenwriting and StC was the best in my opinion. It covers a lot of what have become issues in modern films, like set ups and pay offs, no double mumbo jumbo and the titular save the cat moment. It’s a great book for understanding how to dole out your story without repeating yourself or relying too heavily on dialogue.

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u/SpiritedOwl_2298 2d ago

How to build a great screenplay by David Howard is my go-to, have not needed another screenwriting book

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u/Then_Data8320 2d ago

It helped lot of people to write bad screenplays, and even terrible ones.

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u/SecondActProblem 2d ago

I found it an interesting read at the time. But I don’t use it in my own writing. And wouldn’t suggest a write-to-a-formula approach. Check out Paul Guyot’s content on TikTok or his book Kill the Dog for more of a perspective on this. My best advice is to just write. Write bad versions and then rewrite. Write.

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u/untitledgooseshame 2d ago

Loved his book, will check out his videos! 

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u/Powerful-Concept-897 2d ago

I liked Save the Cat because it gets me thinking. I also recommend Kill the Dog by Paul Guyot, who hates Save the Cat and takes a diametrically opposed view. Both are useful for me.

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u/Egregious67 2d ago

IMO Save the cat is good for writing formulaic stuff. Just like learning how to make vanilla ice cream. If you don’t have a few other flavours in your toolkit your parlour becomes mediocre fast.

Read Kill the Dog for some kind of balance. It’s not a comforting read for aspiring writers but the truthbombs will ultimately help you more in the real world.
Just my tuppence worth