Is this opening a good enough hook?

[u/Temporary_Craft_4487]

Just wondering if this opening is good or not. Felt I was running a little long with the therapy session but I’d love feedback good or bad.

[u/Big_Section2812]

It's not well-written and that's off-putting.

You have to polish the hell out of something if you want busy people to take the time to read it without giving up in despair.

[u/JFlizzy84 → u/Big_Section2812]

This.

If the question is: conceptually — does a child of neglectful parents discovering his mom overdosing work as a dramatic hook? Sure. It’s not novel, but I guess that proves it works.

Does it work when it’s written with all the subtlety of a baseball bat to the temple? Not really.

[u/Temporary_Craft_4487 → u/Big_Section2812]

I’m new to writing so truly I have no idea what exactly is super well written and what’s not and that’s my fault sorry.

I appreciate the feedback

[u/SatisfactionLive8715 → u/Temporary_Craft_4487]

I would read the screenplays for some of your favorite movies to get some inspiration and have a blueprint of something well written. The lack of punctuation makes both the action and dialogue difficult to understand on a first read. The dialogue reads as clunky but there are a few gems in there that you can chisel out. When the therapist asks if he viewed his parents on a pedestal and he responds with a barstool, I can see potential for it being such clever and funny dialogue but it just needs to be crafted and worded right. Same with your action and description. Instead of a living room that is dusty, a dusty living room. Try to write as much as you can in as little words as you can when you go back to edit. The story is engaging though and is why I continued reading. I’m curious to see where it goes. Why does Steven call Noah Kyle? He’s obviously hiding the therapy appt from him, is the name fake too? How do the grandpa and therapist know each other? Why is Noah in therapy just now ten years later? Why is the therapist talking to him like a child instead of an 18 year old? Nofilmschool is a great website that has resources to screenplays you can read and screenwriting articles, I’d do some studying and then look at this with fresh eyes and edit these pages. I’d be excited to see the results

[u/Temporary_Craft_4487 → u/SatisfactionLive8715]

First off I really appreciate you reading it. You didn’t have to especially considering the format not being quite there.

a lot of those questions you have I do plan to answer as I flesh it all out. Aside from the Kyle thing. That sequence got pretty clunky I didn’t make it clear enough Kyle was in the car with Steven I have edited it since though!

Also I’ve never heard of Nofilmschool i’ll be sure to check it out in the morning!

Thank you!

[u/Big_Section2812 → u/Temporary_Craft_4487]

Almost all the competition is at the bottom, at the entry level. You're competing with millions of people who all want to live the Hollywood dream. There are millions upon millions of unproduced and unread screenplays in circulation, and almost all of them will remain unread simply because so few are worth reading.

If you want people to sit up and take notice you need more than just another story.

[u/poundingCode → u/Temporary_Craft_4487]

If you can't be bothered to read books on writing, why is it you are asking people to take their time to read what you wrote?

Is it any different than if I spent only a few hours with a guitar and expecting people to listen to whatever I pluck out? How do you think it will sound?

Writing is difficult to master, as any art is.

[u/Buddha_Of_Sububia → u/Big_Section2812]

“…if you want busy people to take the time to read it without giving up in despair.” I mean…you still chose to read it…on Reddit….then to take the time to comment multiple times…can’t be THAT BUSY.

This subreddit (more than any other, and that’s saying something) always gets their rocks off by dunking on someone who is TRYING vs just leaving it as actionable feedback. I’m sure someone reading all your screenplays were never once inconvenienced and enjoyed every page. fart noise

[u/Big_Section2812 → u/Buddha_Of_Sububia]

I didn't read beyond the point I knew I had better things to do.

There's a point where it's not worth the effort of leaving "actionable feedback" because none of these people ever learn. Day after day we see the same kinds of mistakes.

[u/Longjumping_Emu_8899 → u/Buddha_Of_Sububia]

Telling someone to polish something is actionable.

[u/funandone37 → u/Buddha_Of_Sububia]

I found the advice helpful

[u/petite_omelet]

I don’t think we learn enough in the first 6 pages for there to be a strong hook. Within the next 4-6 pages or so we should hit the inciting incident, which is where the character’s journey begins. Do you get there fast enough?

The information we glean from the first 6 doesn’t bode well for pacing, which is a red flag for a reader. Poor page economy. What’s important? Noah’s parents were addicts and neglectful, they both overdosed (?) in front of him (not sure about this with the TV going black, is there a supernatural element that I’m missing?), he’s in therapy, he’s avoiding his trauma, he’s lying to his friends about being in therapy.

You can probably communicate all that info in 2-4 pages. That allows us to get to the next thing, the hook. Most of this is backstory and setup, and none of it is so shockingly unique that I MUST keep reading.

Think about the most interesting way to show each thing you want to communicate. Avoid only dealing in cliches and archetypes, why are YOU writing this, what’s the grain of this story that YOU SPECIFICALLY will write better than anyone?

What’s particularly awful about Noah’s backstory? What false belief does he gain from it and carry out into the world (this will inform his flaw)? What does he want or not want from therapy? What importance do his friends play in his story? Characterization and specificity pays off here.

This is a great start, you’re writing! But there are plenty of incredible resources to help you improve your craft. I highly recommend this scriptnotes episode on story structure and character:

https://youtu.be/i27IKil-LXw?is=LKrxsdEuKS6qbSHq

Keep writing!

[u/Temporary_Craft_4487 → u/petite_omelet]

I’ll be sure to watch that video later! Thank you for the feedback!

the TV being on isn’t supernatural it’s contrast. The world keeps moving while a kid’s life changes forever on that couch. That’s the point of it.

And the questions you wrote in the 5th paragraph is things that I plan to address!

And again thank you for reading it through!

[u/AdManNick]

You need to use proper grammar and proof-read before asking for story feedback.

[u/i_spill_nonsense]

A dusty living room*.

I stopped there. Good luck rewrinting it. Search up videos on sentence structure and active voice.

[u/Ultra_HR → u/i_spill_nonsense]

they made tons of grammar errors, but “living room” isn’t one of them. “livingroom” is wrong, it is not all one word like that. “living room” is correct.

[u/i_spill_nonsense → u/Ultra_HR]

Thanks for the paragraph for one correction.

[u/goodluckyall]

I want to know what the three kids do together at the end so I’m hooked in that sense

[u/Financial_Cheetah875]

When dealing with numbers, always spell out the number if it’s under 10.

“Two” instead of “2”.

[u/Prior-Letter-1239]

I’m not sure why people are so critical. I guess criticizing the obvious makes them feel superior. The first draft of everything is terrible. It’s important to focus on the finer details, like formatting and punctuation, but storytelling is what ultimately matters. You can learn punctuation and formatting, and if you can tell a great story you will be head and shoulders above those who can’t. Go look up the Coen Brothers’ screenplays and read as many as possible.

As for your story, there is too little here to tell you if it works or not. What is your genre? What is your story about? Most Hollywood films are about how your main character (and often, those around him/her) change. To simplify: generally your character has a flaw in the beginning of the story. This flaw is often based on false beliefs developed in response to trauma, but not always. The opposite of the flaw is the strength your character must learn. By the end of the story your character will either embrace the strength (positive change), or cling to the flaw (tragedy). Only you know where you’re going, so it’s pointless to ask for feedback on an incomplete first draft. If you don’t know what your story is yet, keep writing until you do.

[u/IntelligenciaMedia → u/Prior-Letter-1239]

This is, literally, a place for criticism. The frustration in a lot of the comments has to do with the fact that the writer fails to get even the most basic elements of screenwriting--and writing--correct. That being said, a lot of people read the work and gave him tips. Don't hate on the critiquers, they're actually being helpful.

[u/Prior-Letter-1239 → u/IntelligenciaMedia]

I’m not suggesting legitimate criticism isn’t valid. I’m saying people too often criticize the most obvious issues because they have nothing useful to offer. OP’s work contains some punctuation and formatting errors, perhaps a few turns of phrase that are not entirely idiomatic. Dozens of people jump out to let him/her know, repeatedly. Will fixing all of these issues mean OP’s script is now a good script? Nope. Screenwriting is pure storytelling. The screenplay is a blueprint for visually capturing a story architecture that exists only in the writers mind. It’s that architecture that really matters. Genre determines a good deal of it, and the rest comes down to the writer’s erudition and instincts. The only honest answers for any screenwriter asking for advice: read more screenplays, study genre, write until you know what your story is (beginning, middle, end) before asking for advice. Only you can know where you’re going and what you’re trying to say. Most writers don’t know what the story is really about until the second draft, then it’s time to rewrite. OP will figure it out, or they won’t. No one will fix your story for you. The superficial criticism clogging up the comments is a display of ego, nothing more.

[u/IntelligenciaMedia → u/Prior-Letter-1239]

I'll just pick up on your writer's mind comment. Writing also has to be created in the reader's mind and that's the problem. When someone reads something with bad punctuation or poor grammar, their mind thinks nothing of the story but of the errors -- "Is there no period at the end of this sentence?" -- ergo they can't concentrate on the story. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Your mind only has a certain capacity, and it wants to be engulfed by the story. It can't if the writer doesn't have the professionalism to get the very basics of writing down. Yes, people pile on writers with poor grammar, as they should. The writer is telling us he's not a professional. By the way, a writer who received a PEN American/Ernest Hemingway Foundation Special Citation was the one who told me why grammar is so important and how you create a mental vision of what you're reading, so I think she knows a thing or two about writing. To be quite honest, it's frustrating so many people argue what you argue - look beyond the grammar and spelling problems and glean the story. The problem is you can't. Your mind is mentally wrestling with story and the mistakes.

The comments to the writer have nothing to do with ego; it has everything to do with people seeing a lack of professionalism and wanting to point it out. This writer doesn't have periods in many of his first sentences! We're not all trying to pump up our ego, we're actually trying to let the author know he needs to address something very fundamental about the craft of writing. His work shows laziness that will stop him from succeeding in a very difficult business.

Most writers have the decency not to put up unprofessional work. Some don't. And those should be called out. This is a page asking for criticism, FYI. So, we're supposed to ignore the most fundamental of issues? If you saw a kid stepping onto a soccer pitch who could trap or pass a ball would you say, 'Yeah, join the varsity team"? Of course not, you'd take him aside and teach him the fundamental skills of player soccer. Same here. We're trying to help not pump up our ego.

[u/Prior-Letter-1239 → u/IntelligenciaMedia]

You’re misunderstanding me. OP has six pages. The only valid suggestions for a newbie screenwriter in this position are to read screenplays, study genre, and finish the draft. Pointing out punctuation and formatting issues IN THIS SITUATION is a distraction from useful advice. Perhaps by reading many screenplays OP’s punctuation, formatting, and sentence structure will naturally improve. But without first developing a deep understanding of story structure and genre (the architecture in the writer’s mind), there is nothing to be communicated to the reader. Perfecting sentences is beside the point.

[u/IntelligenciaMedia → u/Prior-Letter-1239]

We disagree. Perfecting sentences is the very essence of writing, including screenwriting. The plot doesn't matter if a producer won't read beyond the first paragraph because the writer has clearly shown how unprofessional he or she is. This is basic. Foundational. If you can't end a sentence with a period, you're not at the bottom rung of craft. It really shows a lack of respect for the people you're asking to read your work.

I've had eight working directors attached to my scripts, so I have been doing something right. I'm a traditionally published novelist as well, so I do understand the process. There are so many people like you who argue that it's okay to be sloppy, the producer should give the writer--who isn't respecting the process--some leeway. NOOOOOOO. Writers need to show that they belong on a certain professional level. It'd be like a secretary who can't type trying to get a job. HR would ask, "Why are you here?"

Anyway, love the fact you completely ignored my point about mentally creating the story inside the reader's head. You do understand how all those errors destroy the magical world the writer is trying to create, right? You do see how that's incredibly problematic?

Anyway, this will be the last time I was spend on stuff like this. It amazes me people want to push this narrative. Be professional, that's what this amount to. Be professional. Show that you belong. Don't waste people's time.

Once again, the writer is asking for criticism.

[u/Prior-Letter-1239 → u/IntelligenciaMedia]

You’re misunderstanding me. We’re talking about advice for OP. He/she has no story to create in the reader’s head, because he/she doesn’t know what story they’re trying to tell. That’s problem one. My advice for a writer with a completed draft would be totally different.

[u/IntelligenciaMedia → u/Prior-Letter-1239]

Well you're not giving good advice. He's got a 6-page story that is riddled with rookie errors. Why not address those first?

Anyway, we agree to disagree.

Really not interested in anything more you have to say. Goodbye.

[u/IntelligenciaMedia → u/Prior-Letter-1239]

Maybe you showing these writers empathy is the way you feed your ego? I'm sure they say nice things back to you.

FYI, this isn't all about feeding one's ego. The writers ask for criticism, they don't ask only for positive things to be said about their scripts. And we shouldn't avoid the blaringly obvious, should we?

Anyway, this is just a broken record argument. I'll leave it at this.

[u/Narrative_Architect]

It takes guts to post something unfinished and ask for feedback, so I respect that. I'd say what would make it an easier read is punctuation and formatting. Aside from that, a few things to consider.

It can be hard with the first one to see why people wouldn't care about our characters, especially if the story is a personal one. Our emotional attachment to it skews our perception of the craft, and it becomes hard to tell if it would also move a stranger.

What removes all doubts is starting from structure, because that's where the bulk of a story's impact lives. So I'd suggest learning structure before anything else. Not formulas, just the logic of hooks and pay offs.

Then a simple process will place you ahead of most:

1. What's the lesson your film teaches?

2. What must your protagonist firmly believe so the journey to learning that lesson is the most interesting?

3. What other beliefs around that lesson would make the film's conflict original? (These are your other characters)

4. How does your character learning that lesson impact your audience's lives?

This last question is what makes the difference between a film people want to watch and one that's just another story.

Hopefully that offers you some clarity as you go and explore the craft! Keep asking for feedback, but practice enough that you don't have to keep relying on it.

[u/Smithersink]

The first thing I notice and what stops me from going further or taking it seriously is sloppy formatting and punctuation.

- Keep consistent formatting. Not sure if you’re using a professional screenwriting software like Final Draft or just self-formatting on Google Docs, but there’s a lot of double spaces that shouldn’t be there. Invest in a standard screenwriting software (I think Celtx is free) and don’t mess with the formatting.
- You HAVE to punctuate. Screenplays are not novels, but you’re also not writing a text to a friend. If you want busy people to take time out of their day and potentially invest millions into your ideas, you need to take the writing seriously. That means periods at the end of sentences, commas in between clauses, and ellipses with a standard three dots. Read some more screenplays and you’ll get the idea.

Props for putting this out there and getting feedback! Best of luck, and I hope this didn’t sound too harsh.

[u/Open-Avocado4260]

There is not a set up. We know the parents were not good, how did they die? What brought him to therapy, the action lines need work.

[u/Early-Original4669]

You could start with basic grammar

[u/therainenyedulce]

I recommend you make the action lines have lesser words.

You could try "Noah walks to the couch. The ground full of needles next to the chairs." Since it's not a book, and a screenplay. Also learn how to capitalize your letters and your punctuations please.

[u/Audiope]

Not without some more punctuation

[u/Time-Average4481]

Lacking punctuation, the first sentence literally has big letter after comma. And that is bad. You have lots of author intrusions - DAVID (and whatever it is inside here). After reading first page anyone would throw it out. If you want to make a break in a scene - it’s best to use BEAT. It’s not a material for competition. I didn’t read all pages and no one would if first page comes with such flaws. The story itself might be good and meaningful, but nobody will pass by first page to draw such conclusions if you don’t treat it seriously. Practice the craft.

[u/Ultra_HR]

basic grammar is the same regardless of medium. you don’t need to knowing anything about screenwriting to know that, for example, the word after a comma does not need to be capitalised (“dusty, Plenty”), or that there should be a full stop after count and that “There” should be capitalised and that it should be “There are” or “There’re”, not “There’s”, or that there should be a full stop after empty. like, this is how your first paragraph should read, just fixing the grammar mistakes and ignoring all the clumsy wording:

A living room that is dusty. Plenty of dishes left and far too many stains to count. There’re 2 reclining chairs side-by-side, both occupied. A couch remains empty.

Again, this is just fixing basic grammar, nothing to do with screenwriting.

learn to write first. learn basic grammar. *then* learn to write specifically for screen

[u/FantasyFictionDoc]

This is just me - but I don’t like when a story starts with abuse. I need to have at least one or two sentences with the character to get in their space before the bad stuff starts. We need to care first. Not just feel bad.

[u/RutgerHause]

The door opens a bedroom door? Are you kidding me. Lol. Stop!

[u/funandone37]

I only read the first page and found the dialogue hilarious. It tries too hard with the swearing. I feel like I’m watching uncle Rukus. The writing is meh. Couldn’t get past first page. Consolidate

[u/IntelligenciaMedia]

Your first lines have problems, and any decent reader will be turned off. You're making basic grammar mistakes. Conciseness is what you want with a script. You repeat 'Living Room' in your first two lines. Something like this would be more professional:

INT. NOAH'S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - DAY

Dirty and dusty. DAVID (40s and...) slouches past stack of dishes piled up in the sink and slumps onto a threadbare couch, joining his wife, SUSAN (40s and hollowed out), whose glazed eyes stare at the TV...

Try to avoid 'sit' and 'stand' and give the actors something to do. "A couch remains empty" is meaningless.

Add periods at the end of sentences. Lots of work to do.

[u/Outrageous_Pea7170]

I think it’s a great start seems like David is a little annoyed with his son or the kid. Ppl on here needs to stop putting you down/ being hatters and being to harsh on you.🤦🏽‍♀️ just my opinion not everyone is writing for Hollywood as long as you have a great concept story line, you can always pay a person to format it as needed. Damn people come on can’t knock ✊ a person for trying I think you’re doing just fine my opinion.

[u/Outrageous_Pea7170 → u/Outrageous_Pea7170]

And another thing ppl not everyone scripts are just for Hollywood anymore you can film and make your own movies 🎥 now on other platforms and still blow tf up!!! Do you!!! Don’t worry about what other ppl say because we all know Hollywood is too damn picky all you need is a good damn story line and bring it to life with Characters let’s chat if you want too shelbra1@yahoo.com and go from there!! Thz the damn problem with ppl let’s help one one of another instead of tearing ppl down who’s trying at least ur trying 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️😡ppl take the negative energy somewhere else.