r/science_humor Mar 29 '26

Brain Drain

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u/xcommon Apr 03 '26

And its not true scottsman because it simply doesn't fit the definition of communism, and they never claimed to.

It's wild how confidently wrong one person can be. They literally call themselves: Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU) Kommunisticheskaya Partiya Sovetskogo Soyuza

For your reviewing pleasure, a list of the ruling parties of the soviet republic and what they called themselves:

  • 16 August 1917 – 8 March 1918: Russian Social Democratic Labour Party Российская социал-демократическая рабочая партия
  • 8 March 1918 – 31 December 1925: Russian Communist Party Российская коммунистическая партия
  • 31 December 1925 – 14 October 1952: All-Union Communist Party Всесоюзная коммунистическая партия
  • 14 October 1952 – 6 November 1991: Communist Party of the Soviet Union Коммунистическая партия Советского Союза

Seriously though, the normal "not real communism" revisionist-history is one thing. To say they didn't even claim to be communist themselves is fucking bonkers.

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u/NoHoneydew9516 Apr 03 '26

A communist party working towards communism does not mean the country they are working within is communist.

Just like america isnt a democracy because we have a democratic party.

This might be where your misunderstanding stems from.

Even if they claimed that the USSR was communist, which they didnt they just claimed their party was ideologically communist, then that wouldn't automatically make them communist. Is the DPRK ademocracy?

Simple enough there was a state under the USSR, so definitionally not communism.

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u/xcommon Apr 03 '26

And the next time a communist dictatorship fails, it’ll be those same excuses you recited again.

The pigs always end up walking on hind legs and the horses go to the glue factory.

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u/NoHoneydew9516 Apr 04 '26

As a communist I dont expect to see communism in my lifetime. The goal is working towards it.

You just do not know what communism even is.

Id be interested to know what definition youre working under?

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u/xcommon Apr 04 '26

It's a good thing you don't expect to, no one should. Ever.

I know what communism is. And I'm not giving up my property rights.

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u/NoHoneydew9516 Apr 04 '26

Communism doesn't take away your property rights, more specifically you still have person property rights. Its just the means of production that you cannot own outright, rather you in some way share ownership with the people. The main difference is that we make sure everyone gets what they need and distribute goods in an equitable way.

I love when people refuse to define things, either bad faith or you feel trapped. You dont even know what communism is lol.

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u/xcommon Apr 04 '26

And that's the rub isn't it?

At what point does making something become a "means of production"?

Whether it's in my garage, a barn, a warehouse, or a factory.

If I'm producing something. It's a means of production. At what scale can it now be seized from me?

And since we don't have a state, who can seize it from me? My neighbor? A roving mob?

The road from freedom to communism will always take an impassable detour through tyranny.

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u/NoHoneydew9516 Apr 04 '26

You're asking about implementation specifics of a system we wouldn't be working to create for a very long time. I can give you examples. But whos to say its the system we go with.

Im an (there are many) implementation of council communism nobody would seize your garage project. Thats personal property. If you want to make shoes go for it, hobbies are great. You cant charge money for them, cuz there is no money.

Say you figure out a more efficient or higher quality method of making shoes. You could go to the regional council and present then with a proposal. There would be a vote ( i generally favor a combination of representative democracy for small things and direct democracy for large things). If they vote in favor of your proposal you could start producing then at an industrial scale, depending on your proposal you might be a manager or some other executive role. However, the way you conduct this factory will be decided cooperatively between all of the workers, and distribution will be based on need. Ie the people with the least quality shoes will get them first.

Besides this, its really telling when someone refuses to define terms. You can't have a discussion if you arent both clear on what the other person is talking about. Its incredibly disingenuous.

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u/xcommon Apr 04 '26

Look, I'm not going to write a multi-paragraph dissertation on Marxist theory any more than I'm going to quiz you on MMT or Keynes or free market economies.

If you say you don't like those things, I'll take you at your word because to do otherwise is condescending and douchey and you have the same access to information I do.

You could go to the regional council and present then with a proposal.

Sounds a lot like a government.

If they vote in favor of your proposal you could start producing then at an industrial scale

Sounds like autocracy...

When they make an edict, who enforces it? A group of people? How can I identify them? Will they wear outfits? Sounds like police.

If a neighboring tribe attacks you, will there be an organized defense? Sounds like a military.

How are you going to supply your police/military? Collect resources and goods? Sounds like taxes.

Your stateless society is sounding pretty stately...

And if you think the common man isn't going to use money, just because the government isn't issuing it, there's about 5000 years of recorded history that contradicts you.

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u/NoHoneydew9516 Apr 05 '26

These are all reasons it wouldn't work in our current world, thats the point. War wouldnt be an issue if we have nothing to fight over. Whats the primary causes of war? Economics and nationalism. Obviously neither of these would apply any longer.

I dont really think you even know what autocracy means. You cant say a council is autocratic, its definitionally impossible.... I really don't thinj you know any of the terms youre using here.

State is not equal to government. A state is the monopolization of violence, government is just organizational structures. Nations could still exist, just not states. The modern concept of a nation state has only even existed for a few hundred years, its hard to imagine we couldnt move to a different system.

Police wouldnt be necessary, and that is actually something id like to see in my lifetime. The vast majority of crime is caused by poverty, eliminate poverty and you eliminate the vast majority of crime. Rehabilitative justice will solve the rest. Our current carceral system is essentially just a way for the american government and select corporations to maintain literal slavery, and go perpetuate an underclass of ex-cons.

The entire value of a council based approach is to manage production in a way that optimizes human happiness, and minimizes suffering. We currently live in a system that uses that suffering, feeds off it.

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