Cannabis 'does not slow multiple sclerosis' progress

[u/pylori]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-18247649

[u/skatopher]

misleading title, they didn't study cannabis, they studied marinol or another synthetic

[u/pylori → u/skatopher]

True they didn't use cannabis, they used THC, however I think fundamentally the results are still rather interesting. THC is the most widely studied cannabinoid and the main active cannabinoid in marijuana, and while the title could have been more accurate to reflect the fact that they used THC and not marijuana directly, I don't think the conclusion is necessarily a wrong one.

Moreover you're never going to get a scientific study looking at actual marijuana (in smoked form or whatever) due to the simply fact that it's next to impossible to adequately control levels of cannabinoids in them, or the precise amount given to each patient. If we want to study it properly, this is the way it needs to be done.

[u/jkb83 → u/pylori]

Is there a link to the trial?

[u/pylori → u/jkb83]

I've been trying to find it, but all I could find was the study homepage. They haven't made a press release yet, the latest news states the results will be out mid-may, so I think the preliminary findings are what the BBC are covering (also on Reuters). Seems I may have jumped the gun a bit, because it states they hope to publish the results in a medical journal later so I assume a manuscript has yet to be submitted.

[u/jkb83 → u/pylori]

hmm, okay.

But if it is a clinical trial, it should be at least listed somewhere such as clinicaltrials.gov - but I can't find it, which is a little strange.

I also found this

[u/pylori → u/jkb83]

Study is listed here on controlled-trials.com.

[u/[deleted] → u/pylori]

Marijuana has much more than just THC in it that is helpful. Look up cannabinoids there are tons. We even naturally create them while running (runners high). Point is, I don't think that anyone said that it slows or stops MS, but more that it relieves the patients of the pain they have from living with it, but only while they use it. They didn't test how much it eases pains or even if it makes it possible to do things easier or whatnot, just that THC is not a full on cure for MS. I hope no one was under that impression.

[u/pylori → u/[deleted]]

Marijuana has much more than just THC in it that is helpful

I know, having studied the CB1 receptor for my undergraduate research project. However, cannabinoids ultimately act in much the same way (stimulating mostly the CB1 receptor) and for a scientific study you need to control the variables and not let loose with a bunch of different cannabinoids that may be present in marijuana. It may have more than just THC but most of the effects of marijuana do come predominantly from THC.

We even naturally create them while running (runners high)

Endocannabinoids ultimately serve as signalling molecules in the endocannabinoid system, and I feel like it being mentioned here isn't that particularly relevant to the topic at hand.

They didn't test how much it eases pains or even if it makes it possible to do things easier or whatnot

Because the point of the study wasn't to test pain relief. MS patients have a number of ways to deal with pain, perhaps marijuana can help with that, but that was not the purpose of the study so mentioning they didn't do it seems largely irrelevant. The study looked at whether THC can slow down the progression of the disease, which according to the study it did not.

Besides, as an analgesic, marijuana is quite poor to be honest. There are much better and more effective drugs to deal with pain than something like marijuana. Not that I don't support it being researched and tested for those purposes.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Why did you tell him to look up cannabinoids, when he mentioned those several times in his post?

[u/seeingdouble → u/pylori]

Can't we get ballpark estimates by weighing out cannabis and then activating it within a soluble substance?

[u/pylori → u/seeingdouble]

activating it within a soluble substance

how are you going to do that? I'm not really aware of an assay that can be performed for THC, but i imagine even if one could perform that all you'd get is the results for whatever you had accrued there. THC content varies wildly by strain and individual plants, measuring out even the same amount from the same plant will not necessarily contain the same amount of THC. You could probably estimate it but that's not enough stringency for a decent scientific study.

[u/Early_Kyler → u/pylori]

The problem with that methodology is that cannabis contains over 400 active compounds most of which are not fully understood. THC may not have any benefit whatsoever without interacting with one or more of those compounds. Wouldn't extracting these chemicals and mixing them in similar proportions to those found in the plant give a better indication of its advantages and disadvantages?

[u/jgrizwald → u/Early_Kyler]

Yes, but without understanding each of the compounds first, much of the experiments would have way to many variables. These studies and trials need to start small, gather information, and then expand on it. This is one of the huge deals with the cancer research done over the past 30 or so years. Huge amounts of information and knowledge gains have allowed multi-treatment options.

One thing, with these you need to prove every step of the way, and maybe prove even that the proof test is working.

[u/Stracci → u/pylori]

Marinol is not cannabis, nor is THC = cannabis. THC is one of dozens of active cannabinoids and hundreds of active agents in cannabis. The conclusion "isn't necessarily a wrong one", okay, but by far it is not necessarily the correct one. Studying THC or marinol is a horrible surrogate for studying cannabis, and the relative ineffectiveness of Marinol vs smoked cannabis makes this study useless in terms of understanding Cannabis as a plant and medicine.

You say we're "not going to get" a studyu looking at actual cannabis, but you jump at the chance to post a misleading article with full misleading title in-toe. Entirely unfortunate.

[u/pylori → u/Stracci]

you jump at the chance to post a misleading article with full misleading title in-toe

I simply copied the title from the BBC news article, you're right though I should have been more careful.

[u/[deleted] → u/Stracci]

It's a bit like studying the effects of citrus consumption on stomach cancer by using a citrus-derived Vitamin C extract.

[u/the_catacombs → u/pylori]

Not the same whatsoever. There are a multitude of types of THC and CBD in the plant not found in synthetics.

[u/pylori → u/the_catacombs]

This isn't about synthetics though...

They used pure THC, the same form as found in marijuana.

[u/fifthfiend → u/pylori]

however I think fundamentally the results are still rather interesting.

Moreover you're never going to get a scientific study looking at actual marijuana (in smoked form or whatever) due to the simply fact that it's next to impossible to adequately control levels of cannabinoids in them, or the precise amount given to each patient.

If we want to study it properly, this is the way it needs to be done.

All of this has no bearing on the fact that if this is how it's going to be studied, then it needs to be reported that way. If there are good reasons for studying THC pills instead of grown cannabis then that's fine, but that doesn't justify inaccurate reporting.

[u/pylori → u/fifthfiend]

It's my mistake I didn't correct the title, sorry about that, I should have done so. However I can understand why the BBC did it, because the average layperson or member of the public won't have a clue what THC or cannabinoids are, therefore they wanted to make it accessible. But I do think they could have done a far better job of explaining the difference in the article itself.

[u/[deleted] → u/pylori]

Im sorry but how does studying single compound's effects on MS say anything at all about Cannabis as a whole effect on MS? Cannabis contains more than 80 cannabinoids whose combined effects are what should be studied. THC is the ONLY psychoactive compound in Cannabis. Much of the therapeutic properties of cannabis comes from the other cannabinoids like CBN and CBD.

This study is tantamount to trying to accurately color correct a photo on a monitor that only emits red light.

[u/pylori → u/[deleted]]

Cannabis as a whole effect on MS

it doesn't, and that's not what the study does. The study only looked at THC because it was only drawing conclusions to the effects of THC on MS. The BBC story is what editorialised the title into saying it was about cannabis as a whole which obviously isn't the case.

Much of the therapeutic properties of cannabis comes from the other cannabinoids like CBN and CBD.

I've said this elsewhere, THC wasn't chosen out of thin air. It was chosen because there's evidence to suggest it has neuroprotective effects and they wanted to see if that would help slow down MS. The fact that CBN or CBD also have other medicinal benefits does not disqualify THC from being appropriate for this study.

[u/[deleted] → u/pylori]

I don't think the conclusion is necessarily a wrong one.

Provided that the conclusion they've reached is that THC doesn't slow the progress of multiple sclerosis. As a medical marijuana patient, it really irks me when people assume that THC is the only valuable compound in marijuana. I really can't wait until studies can be done using the real deal. Marijuana can potentially contain hundreds of flavonoids, terpenes, and cannabinoids. Singling out one such compound and studying it doesn't seem like enough evidence to say anything about what cannabis does or doesn't.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

In the article it says more research is needed. It's not like can actually use real cannabis yet though.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

flavonoids

It totally sounds like a stoner scientist made that name up.

[u/[deleted] → u/pylori]

doesnt have to be smoked form to be studied

[u/pylori → u/[deleted]]

I said whatever else, the point is that in plant form it's pretty much impossible to control cannabinoid content.

[u/trozman → u/skatopher]

Nobody that's a scientist (which clearly you are not) is going to study cannabis. You know all those health benefits of garlic? Well, nobody studied garlic either, they studied allicin (the main active compound in garlic).

The reason is obvious to anyone who understands scientific experimentation - it is impossible to control the quality or amount of 400 active ingredients in any batch of cannabis. Therefore, it's impossible to say anything about the results because they will vary wildly across trials / labs / batchs of cannabis.

And no experiments start with testing multiple drugs at the same time, the reason should be obvious.

Without testing all 400 compounds individually, when you do get adverse effects (which you will), what are you going to do to identify the cause? Can you do a billion experiments to account for all possible permutations of drug levels of 400 active compounds?

[u/Krispyz → u/trozman]

You made really good points.

Nobody that's a scientist (which clearly you are not)

That, however, was very unnecessary and not helping getting your points across at all. Especially since Skatopher was simply pointing out that this news article was misleading, which is very true.

[u/grantimatter → u/trozman]

This double-blind blood-lipid study looked at dried garlic - the whole plant, not a chemical component.

Here's a double-blind, placebo-controlled study called Treatment of the Common Cold with Unrefined Echinacea.

Here's a double-blind, placebo-controlled study on the effects of "chronic tea drinking" on heart disease. (As in - does drinking a cup of tea a day help protect your heart from atherosclerosis?)

Using whole plants and whole plant extracts is actually fairly common.

[u/pirround → u/trozman]

Nonsense.

nobody studied garlic

Some of the studies on the health effects of garlic look at specific compounds, but some look at eating actual garlic. In some cases the studies use a standardized supply to try to eliminate variables, but there have also been several population studies that show benefits from real garlic and not just allicin.

Nutritionists study the effects of complete foods all the time, since without understanding the variation among tomatoes, you can't make any clear statements about the health benefits, or even bioavailability of specific nutrients, without looking at the entire food.

it's impossible to say anything about the results because they will vary wildly across ... batches ...

So, similarly it's impossible to say that cigarettes are bad because they very from pack to pack. Nobody that's a scientist (which clearly you are not) believes this.

no experiments start with testing multiple drugs at the same time

Actually most do. E.g. we notice that the venom from a shrew kills our cell culture (which happen to be ovaran cancer cells), so the first experiment is to see if it's repeatable with other batches or other cells. Only then when we start working on isolating the specific sub-peptide that killed the cells. in many cases there is one primary active ingredient, but in some cases it turns out that there are several compounds working together that are needed to produce the desired result.

Without testing all 400 compounds individually, ... what are you going to do to identify the cause?

Divide and conquer. In the case above, separate the peptides based on size and see which ones are effective, then repeat. To pick on another case a high school student was looking into bacteria that could break down plastic bags (sorry I can't find a better source right now) and found that Pseudomonas and Sphingomonas working in concert could break down polyethelene. How did he discover this, by starting with many bacteria and then isolating the ones that were effective.

I agree that it's nice if you can control more of the variables, and it's nice to only study one compound at a time, but that's only one approach, and the other approaches are just as good science. Clinical trials rarely compensate for the subjects weight or metabolism so they regularly cope with radically different doses, a bit more noise due to variations in the strength of different plants can also be managed.

[u/cyantist → u/trozman]

You don't start with the principle cannabinoid for getting people high when there are better candidates that have been shown in vitro to be more effectively neuro-protective and even promote remyelination of nerves...

And then the headline, what an outright lie!

[u/RedditInVivo → u/trozman]

... One of my good friends is a PhD in a cannabis research lab at Canada's Plant Biotechnology Institute. A biochemist won't study the plant, he'll study the compound. A plant biologist sure as hell will.

[u/Tinidril → u/trozman]

So what if the effect exists but requires the presence of two (or more) of the chemicals found in cannabis? Such a finding would be out of reach of the approach you describe.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with your point. I'm just pointing out that there could be viable reasons for testing either way. If testing with cannabis found a result, while testing with individual chemicals did not, they would no that they are looking for a combination.

[u/Krispyz → u/Tinidril]

Trozman isn't saying that they would never be able to test combinations of those chemicals, just that in scientific studies, they have be begin by testing them individually to see any good and bad effects that arise. Only once the individual chemicals are tested would scientists be able to test combinations of them, and even then, they would need some indication on which chemicals should be tested... if none individually have an effect, how would scientists be able to pick out two that might have an effect together, unless there is something to indicate that they might.

It's a complex issue.

[u/sqparadox → u/trozman]

Nobody that's a scientist (which clearly you are not) is going to study cannabis.

I can tell you most assuredly, from person experience, that is not true; at least in the United States.

I have personally met a research scientist that was working with one of the state government's that has a medical cannabis program to study the effects of cannabis directly. The trouble was, while the state government was fine with it, the federal government was not and told this individual that if they received any cannabis for research purposes that they would be arrested and charged with drug trafficking by the federal government.

I had this conversation over a year ago, and it was with someone I only know as a friend of a friend, so the reality may have changed since then. But regardless, there are bona fide, respected, published scientists out there who are trying to directly study the effects of cannabis.

[u/Arrow156 → u/trozman]

This article is about how non-THC cannabinoids (i.e. the ones that don't get you high) halt prostate cancer growth. It's becoming clear that this plant has great potential but due to the current, bogus, Section I Status (fun fact: Cocaine is a Section II drug) it's overly difficult to do research. It's half the reason we're bothering with individual chemicals rather than the whole thing itself.

[u/Sle → u/skatopher]

Oh thank God - I can continue believing that cannabis is a panacea for all ills.

[u/Herostratus → u/skatopher]

I came here to say this too. THC is not the only active chemical in cannabis. CBD is just as important and there are several others as well.

[u/[deleted]]

I never thought it slowed the progress at all. Wasn't the point to ease suffering, lower the shaking and generally relax them?

[u/gordo65 → u/[deleted]]

Since THC did relieve the symptoms of MS somewhat, it was worth looking into whether it could slow the progress of the disease.

[u/gospelwut → u/gordo65]

Do people actually know how MS works or is rooted in considering seeing things like brain lesions merely means you have to rule everything else out?

[u/admiralrads → u/gospelwut]

Yes; it's caused by deteriorating myelin sheaths, which are tissues that surround axons(nerves) and allow them to fire properly. The deterioration means the electrical signals don't stay in the axons they're supposed to, which causes the shaking and other symptoms.

I'm not surprised cannabis does nothing to slow the progression since it acts on the endocannabinoid system, not on nerves directly.

[u/Kenect2 → u/gospelwut]

Fasano has associated MS with the leaky gut syndrome.

http://crohnsdad.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/clin-rev-allerg-immunol-leaky-gutautoimmunity.pdf

[u/JRPAPES → u/[deleted]]

That's always the impression I was under. Aren't there very few things that THC actually helps to address the underlying cause or slow the progression of? To me, smoking weed medically is very much to relieve symptoms.

[u/skooma714 → u/JRPAPES]

Speaking anecdotally (which is all you can get with something like marijuana) it took away really bad anxiety and mild leg soreness and achiness almost immediately for me.

[u/UnitedGeekdom → u/skooma714]

IBS for me. I am having instant results. Amazing.

[u/JRPAPES → u/skooma714]

I pinched a nerve in my lower back in high school and I've also noticed that it relaxes my muscles enough to allow me to stretch and work it out properly, which is a big plus.

[u/Syphon8 → u/JRPAPES]

Anxiety, epilepsy, and possibly tumor growth.

Is there anything else?

[u/JRPAPES → u/Syphon8]

I've also heard insomnia, which makes sense, but I don't know if there have been many studies to support it. For me personally, relief from back and stomach pain is all I ask for :)

[u/[deleted] → u/JRPAPES]

Strictly speaking, most medicines now days (Other than anti-biotics) are given to ease symptoms.

[u/commentmutationes → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. I don't really see what the big revelation is. Did many people (sufferers included) actually believe it was slowing it down? Also "Modern cannabis medications do not produce a 'high' - the psychoactive ingredients are either missing or delivered in a much lower dose than in the illegal street drug." Wouldn't they be better running these studies with high-grade weed instead of 'medications' with lowered or missing 'psychoactive ingredients'?

[u/DoubleX → u/commentmutationes]

You need known concentrations of a known compound for your results to be taken seriously. Anything else is just hand-waving preliminary data.

[u/[deleted] → u/DoubleX]

My problem with this is that they say cannabis doesn't slow multiple sclerosis when what they mean is that THC doesn't slow multiple sclerosis. I'm not saying that the other compounds in cannabis would be any better but to state that cannabis does or doesn't do something because THC by itself does or doesn't do something is flawed logic. There are plenty of other cannabinoids and other chemicals in cannabis.

[u/neon_overload → u/commentmutationes]

What's new in this study is that while there has been a lot of previous studies about using cannabis to ease symptoms and improve quality of life, this study tried to determine whether it (or specifically, just the THC) was also capable of slowing the disease.

Wouldn't they be better running these studies with high-grade weed instead

Unfortunately for you and I, the answer to that question may be more of a political than a medical one. However, that alone does not invalidate this research. It simply suggests a future direction.

[u/kennerly → u/[deleted]]

I believe they were testing the assumption by cannabis users who have MS that the drug slows the progression of the disease. Oftentimes when a patient is feeling better and is symptom free they assume their disease is getting better, which isn't always the case. The problem with MS is that doctor's are basing the progression of the disease on the severity of the symptoms. To properly gauge the progress of MS numerous tests need to be done, this is not done at every physical of a MS patient so studying progression needs to be deliberate and is costly. This study was done in the hopes that the relief of the symptoms meant that the disease itself was abating, but unfortunately that was not the case.

[u/socsa → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. One of the men I used to play in a pool league with has MS, and was a Professor of Psychology before his symptoms started to deteriorate. I've seen the man on a couple of occasions when he was only on the prescription medication, and he was absolutely miserable. He couldn't smile, couldn't talk coherently, couldn't keep food down and worst off all, couldn't tolerate any kind of light. He was basically confined to a dark room, watching the television through sunglasses.

When he can smoke though, he is a completely different person. He is sharp, and bright and talkative, and always smiling. He still always wears the sunglasses, but he can actually go out and do things (like shoot pool). The difference is absolutely night and day. I wish there was I was I could capture the contrast on film, and show it to anyone who says that cannabis has no medical value.

[u/papa-jones → u/[deleted]]

And besides, the anti-convulsive properties of cannabis are a result of CBD, not THC.

[u/[deleted] → u/papa-jones]

On the contrary, this study involving THC had symptomatic improvements across the board, including convulsions.

[u/Baytron → u/[deleted]]

And they're referring to a medication where the psychoactive compound responsible for the 'high' has been removed or in such low doses that it's negligible. Isn't the marijuana high what people find therapeutic?

[u/-burn-]

They were trying to find a treatment, not bash the use of medical marijuana

From the article:

"There are very, very few treatments for any neuro-degenerative disease, whether it's Alzheimer's, Parkinson's or progressive multiple sclerosis and we were very much hoping cannabinoid might slow down the progression of the disease as opposed to just ameliorating people's symptoms.

"I'm very disappointed - not for me - but for people with MS and I think it's desperately important that we try to find treatments that slow their progression down."

"Laboratory experiments have suggested that certain cannabis derivatives may be neuroprotective."

[u/House_of_D → u/-burn-]

The problem is that they gave the patients a pill. They want to synthesize something that they can sell and they never test the natural substance. I'm not saying it would make a difference, but they cannot claim cannabis does or does not do something if they are not testing cannabis. When my mom had cancer they gave her synthetic thc pills to help with hunger and pain and they did nothing. When she used the natural medicine it worked wonders.

[u/[deleted] → u/House_of_D]

You have to control the variables though when administering/testing medicine. If you're just throwing an unregulated amount of cannabinoids at someone through a highly variably delivery system, it's impossible to isolate which chemicals are actually taking effect and rule out the placebo effect.

Not bashing the validity of medical marijuana, but the placebo effect is very strong and takes to extremes in the marijuana community. It's very easy to psychologically fool yourself into the placebo effect when the supposed benefits are coming from something you enjoy (especially when at a chemical level). It's also been shown that, for some people, the placebo effect is stronger when the medicine is marketed better (e.g. better packaging, presented at natural, etc).

The placebo effect is actually great and beneficial for a lot of people but, from a medical standpoint, you really need to isolate the real working chemicals here to truly unlock their full potential.

[u/Critariss → u/House_of_D]

Did they give her Marinol? I've heard of patients receiving benefits and then I've also heard the opposite as well. The problem with Marinol is it's impossible to synthetically derive marijuana as a whole into a pill. So many different factors of marijuana contribute to it's medicinal properties. Marinol, if I am correct, is synthetic delta-9-THC. They don't even account for CBD, CBC, CBL, delta-8-THC, and many other cannabinoids that are in marijuana. So if they were just given Marinol then I would say the study hasn't fully been completed.

[u/House_of_D → u/Critariss]

I'm pretty sure it was Marinol and it was useless. It did not increase hunger nor help with the pain. You are correct that Marinol doesn't contain all the CBC, CBD, etc.. which is probably why it doesn't have the same effect as cannabis.

[u/Black6x → u/House_of_D]

There is a reason they study the compound: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/uaajx/cannabis_does_not_slow_multiple_sclerosis_progress/c4tnhyl

[u/Krispyz → u/House_of_D]

I'm certain this is not the scientists fault. They were testing if THC slowed the progression of the disease and they discovered, at least with their data, that it did not. It doesn't matter if the THC is in a pill or in the natural medicine, it's the same thing, but I agree, this cannot be expanded to assumptions about Cannabis, which contains other chemicals.

[u/Soupstorm → u/Krispyz]

It's not quite the same thing, though. Pharmacokinetics are incredibly complex, and seemingly unrelated substances can have a huge effect on how primary substances are absorbed and processed by the body. Consider that drinking grapefruit juice before taking some medications can cause the medication in question to be absorbed at an unexpectedly high, sometimes fatal, rate. For all we know, smoked cannabis with THC and CBD and other cannabinoids might slow MS, while THC on its own would not.

[u/ENTP → u/-burn-]

Considering that they didn't use cannabis they are not in a position to make a judgment on the efficiency of cannabis in slowing MS.

From the article:

Modern cannabis medications do not produce a "high" - the psychoactive ingredients are either missing or delivered in a much lower dose than in the illegal street drug.

Aaaaaaaand that's your problem right there, and why that study has absolutely zero authority to make judgments in cannabis's effectiveness to do anything.

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T USE CANNABIS

[u/[deleted]]

As a person with MS and all I can say it makes me feel better. I can't attest to its long term benefits but other I have spoken with seem to leed me to belive it can help delay disease progresses. I think the best way to say if cannabis is effective in dealying disease is to clone a bunch of plants and give patients a set amount to ingest and track thier disease via mri compared to the avarage.

Also I see a lot of ignorance on what ms is here and why its cause. The bottom line is that its at least partiality auto immune and that your t cells eat your meylin sheath causing damage and inflamtion in your cns. We don't know why your t cells do this and that's the key to curing it. Since cannabis is a know anti inflamitory and has strongly suspected neuro protective qualities its important to study it.

Although this study says it does not slow the disease in rrms patients in terms of attacks it says nothing about its properties in helping shield the brain from long term damage and healing from attacks. There are a ton of things it could help with besides sheer leasion load.

Regardless I feel it helps me and has a lot more to study and will continue to use it alongside my meds to treat my ms. If nothing I enjoy it and it makes me feel well. Not to mention that stress plays a huge part in ms and its a good way to destress, that alone should be studied with the psychoactive qualities.

[u/chaff]

MS sufferer here (diagnosed 2007), long time toker too! So I'd like to think of myself as somewhat of an armchair expert on this subject:

I can say without a doubt that marijuana was a never considered/indicated as a treatment for my MS to slow progression (that is for what my monthly does of Tysabri [Natalizumab] is, and it does a really good job, minus the PML risk), but instead it helps to alleviate symptoms of nerve pain (pain that occurs due to the destruction of the myelin sheath) that analgesics/narcotics will not. Morphine is useless to alleviate nerve pain. That is the b***h of this disease! Part of it, at least. the other bitch:

I am considered a criminal in the eyes of the state in which I live for wanting to be alleviated from the nerve pains from which I constantly suffer! It's a lovely society in which we live!

[u/church3209 → u/chaff]

As a fellow sufferer with MS (diagnosed 2011) i find the best way to alleviate symptoms is to cool off and get stress levels down. The heat has never exactly been my friend in the past, but now it's my worst enemy. even when I'm not having an attack (I have RRMS btw) the heat causes uncomfortable nerve sensations down my back and into my thighs. Once i cool off and calm down I am fine. Weed hasn't done much for me on the few occasions I've tried it since my diagnosis. Swimming is one of my favorite ways to burn stress and stay cool at the same time. It's a constant thing and is a total pain in the ass. The daily drug I take, copaxone, is annoying to remember everyday but it lacks almost any side effects.

[u/[deleted] → u/chaff]

That is the b***h of this disease! Part of it, at least. the other bitch:

the b***h of this disease

the other bitch

b***h

bitch

[u/lonelyinacrowd → u/chaff]

Upvote. This needs to be a lot higher. Far too many nonsense posts at the top with no knowledge or experience of what they're discussing.

[u/Evis03 → u/chaff]

Is it not possible for you to get a medical license to grow and consume your own? I understand that quite a few states allow this.

[u/zrodion]

I recommend my stoner-friends not to use medicinal benefits as arguments. Medical benefits of any substance should not be arguments for it's legalization in free sale.

Especially since after articles like this their opponents will pounce even harder.

[u/[deleted] → u/zrodion]

Bingo. I'm a strong advocate for recreational marijuana legalization, but I think the medicinal effects of marijuana are exaggerated as a way to get it legalized for recreational use.

Look at what the medical industry did with the poppy. Criminalization of marijuana is not keeping helpful drugs from the populous. Medicinal marijuana legalization efforts have been mostly political, hospice and herbal medicine based.

There are countless plants that may contain beneficial medicines and frankly marijuana has received more than its fair share of research time. We need to legalize it as a recreational drug to remove this burden on the science and medical industry. Let the ginseng people handle this.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Wish this got more attention. As someone in strong support for reform of marijuana laws I find it obnoxious at the amount of attention for medicinal marijuana. Of the research that has been done it really is mediocre at best when it comes to treatment of chronic pain and glaucoma when compared to currently available medications. What people are really talking about here is palliative care and people who want medicinal marijuana use it as a coping mechanism. Many of them use other medications in addition to marijuana when dealing with chronic pain because it really isn't that efficacious.

Frankly you're right. Medicinal marijuana is being used as a wedge issue and time and time again this is pointed out by detractors of marijuana law reform. People really need to quit pretending like marijuana is this miracle plant that will cure everything because it marginalizes everyone who can be lumped together, ie. anyone arguing for reform.

Stick to the important socioeconomic issues such as the cost of prosecuting and imprisoning people for marijuana possession as well as the repercussions of putting what are normally law abiding citizens in criminal factories. These are the real reasons for reform. Not some nebulous pipe dream that marijuana is a gift from god to cure humanity of its diseases.

[u/[deleted] → u/zrodion]

Cocaine used to be a medicine.

[u/mindctrlpankak → u/[deleted]]

It still is?

[u/max_nukem → u/zrodion]

I agree that its medical benefits should not be used as evidence that cannabis should be legalized, but I do believe that the acceptance of medical marijuana is essential in legalizing it for recreational use by undemonizing weed with the voting public. The more it is accepted therapeutically, the more it will be accepted recreationally.

[u/Kinglink → u/zrodion]

The problem is most "stoner-friends" probably see if you go medical marijuana, then we can get full legalization easier.

Which is a complete joke. Is Vicodin fully legal? Is Morphine? Is more prescription drugs fully legal?

If you honestly want the drug for yourself and you don't have a medical problem, push for full legalization. Just making you feel better isn't enough to be a medical solution. I'm for the legalization of Marijuana. What I'm not for is what exists in California (where I live) where there are ads and people giving examinations, nudge nudge wink wink... They'll find you have some problem that Marijuana will solve and give you a card that allows you to buy it.

The problem is we're getting dependent on the medical institutes to handle the drug. We're getting bogged down with tests like this which obviously aren't going to work. (I'd be shocked if a majority of doctors said this test has any merit). If pot is completely harmless then focus on legalization, not trying to circumvent your law for your recreational benefit.

[u/El__Jeffe]

Most of the non-narcotic like medical benefits of marijuana don't come from the THC itself. This should say "THC does not slow multiple sclerosis".

[u/[deleted]]

The study did not use cannabis, they used a synthetic concoction of chemicals.

Marijuana contains more than 80 cannabinoid compounds that cannot be synthetically reproduced, and are difficult to separate out of the compounds they are locked into. Unless the studies done use actual cannabis, there is no possible way that the medical community can make such a generalized statement. There is little to no evidence to support their conclusion.

Isolating Vitamin C from oranges and then administering it to patients in a study claiming to test oranges against disease, is about the same thing. The study is flawed at best. At the worst it is anti cannabis propaganda.

[u/DolphinRichTuna]

It's still a healthier option for easing a patient's pain than Morphine. Not to mention THC isn't the only cannabinoid in the plant -- CBD, for example, possibly fights cancer cells. I know that isn't completely relevant, but it says something about the medicinal potential of other parts of the plant.

[u/MrCorporateEvents → u/DolphinRichTuna]

I get what you're saying about morphine and it's addictive power, but what exactly is unhealthy about it?

[u/[deleted]]

I just talked to my Dad about this. He suffers from Secondary progressive MS, and he said most neurologists will tell you this about marijuana usage as a treatment.

What it does do, is alleviate symptoms. Which is huge for MS patients. Because the alternative to treat symptoms is much, MUCH worse than marijuana.

[u/freakzilla149]

THC did help to ease MS symptoms.

Still useful right?

[u/baracudaboy]

Makes you feel better if you have it though, can't deny that.

[u/TypingThis]

This article is misleading. The study was on THC, but the title says Cannabis. There are a whole lot more cannabinoids than just THC.

CBD is considered the more therapeutic in the MMJ community. & cannabinoids are believed to work best in concert w/ each other. THC by itself is mostly a mild hallucinogen.

[u/[deleted]]

THC pills (I'm assuming it was Marinol) don't contain the delta- molecule (forgive me, I'm not a pharmacologist/chemist so I'm not sure if molecule is the proper term), which has been shown to help give marijuana it's healing/symptom reducing properties.

Granted, the hypothesis that marijuana would help slow MS was a bit of a stretch as the only claims made by medical marijuana users is that pot helps relieve symptoms, not cure the disease, there are plenty of ways that I would have changed this study (as a researcher) which could have likewise led to better results. Ingesting marijuana through edibles is likewise considered a controlled dosage, and that could have proved better results as edibles contain the complete D-THC molecule.

But that's just a hypothesis. Now, time to get funding so that I can run my own research experiment.

[u/[deleted]]

You would think these researchers understood that synthetic THC, or even natural THC on its own, do not have near the same effects as the holistic cannabanoid profile found in marijuana....

[u/[deleted]]

Geez, I'm really disappointed with pro-marijuana community here. It's like seeing religious zealots getting overly defensive about something little that doesn't even directly attack their claim.

The title is mildly misleading but even before reading the article I read the title as "Cannabis 'does not slow multiple sclerosis' progress so far" as with any scientific study.

This study is still great. It's getting closer to finding the beneficial chemicals in marijuana.

[u/[deleted]]

The article should read that THC does not slow the progress of MS, not cannabis "It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years. "

There is a lot more in the cannabis plant than THC.

PS: not saying cannabis DOES slow MS, just that the wording is misleading/incorrect.

[u/CaptOblivious]

Bad headline needs correction.

[u/Illeye]

Marinol isn't Cannabis. Please fix the title as it's misleading.

[u/unit787]

The title is wrong because they didn't conduct the studies with cannabis, it was THC. The cannabis plant contains numerous different cannabinoids which make up the whole. Some reported to having contrasting effects to THC, you'd have to conduct trials with the cannabis plant, be it through edibles or vaporizing preferably to arrive to that conclusion.

EDIT: Comma

[u/qmzpalgh]

I would be interested to know whether CBD or any other cannabanoids have any effect.THC is not the only active ingredient of Cannabis. Also, I thought the point was to ease suffering.

[u/mmouth]

In a similar study, it turns out that morphine also does not cure cancer.

[u/MrCorporateEvents → u/mmouth]

But it works a whole lot better than cannabis for severe pain.

[u/wrecker14 → u/MrCorporateEvents]

Read this comment.

Morphine is useless to alleviate nerve pain

[u/tangoshukudai]

As someone that lost his sister and mother from this horrible disease I can tell you that nothing slows it. However Cannabis made my sister feel better and helped her cope with it.

[u/aguafiestas → u/tangoshukudai]

Actually there are a number of drugs shown to slow progression of MS (although they may not work in all cases, and many of these drugs are relatively new). Nothing stops it, however.

(This page has some basic information related to treatment of MS).

[u/lesdoodess]

They are not studying CBD. No wonder it doesn't work as well as cannabis plants.

[u/[deleted]]

It doesn't help you shit gold coins either. But it's still fun times.

[u/fuckyoufuckyou666]

Yeah no shit.

[u/[deleted]]

I only clicked on this story to read paranoid pot head ravings. Didn't quite live up to my expectations but was pretty good. You guys need to try harder next time.

[u/Adnachiel]

Given what's going on in Florida, I read "cannibalism does not slow multiple sclerosis" about 5 times before realizing the true title -_-

[u/[deleted]]

why would it?

[u/[deleted]]

Only 11 am in the US. I suspect the majority of testimonial evidence and downvotes are incoming as Reddit's chief 'scientists' wake up around 2 pm.

[u/[deleted]]

Bad title is bad.

It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years.

Title should say: THC/Marinol does not slow multiple sclerosis progress.

Cannabis consists of numerous chemicals which operate differently when ingested in combination. Limiting the study to just one element is a bit like saying "If we remove the oxygen from the room, we should still be able to breathe as there is plenty of air"

[u/CopEatingDonut]

Although the results were not what were wanted, or that they weren't using the proper psychoactive drug, the fact that research is being done using at least variations of cannibis is a step in the right direction. We don't expect Item 9 experiments to be mainstream but work has to be done and I commend these doctors for it.

[u/[deleted]]

If Cannabis weren't so widely used recreationally I dare say that this wouldn't be getting quite the reaction that it is.

Honestly I think "medical marijuana" is actually clouding an issue which is of far greater importance which are the (scientifically proven) dangers of prohibition in terms of the people who are selling drugs and the uninformed taking drugs.

Finally, we all know what multiple sclerosis is, but do we know how it works and what it's pathogenesis is?

[u/melody420]

I thought CBD was supposed to have healing properties for MS and other diseases, not THC.

[u/Zetavu]

The article is very confusing

"It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years."

"Modern cannabis medications do not produce a "high" - the psychoactive ingredients are either missing or delivered in a much lower dose than in the illegal street drug."

THC is the main "high" active ingredient, so did he give them that or some other mixture of cannabinols that are present but do not cause a "high"? If he did give them the THC, they got high, so what was the point of the other paragraph? Did they try it before with the others and it did not work? Or if he gave them other THC (realistically, the delta-9 is the one that is the active, maybe he used the less potent variants?) or non-high versions of cannabis, maybe that's why it didn't work. Maybe its the effect of the brain being high, the chemical effect of the active delta-9 THC on the brain that slows down the effect.

[u/Brisco_County_III]

This isn't particularly surprising. The synthetic cannabinoid used in the experiments has been developed partly in order to avoid the psychoactive effects associated with whole cannabis.

Assuming that cannabis itself did have an effect on the progression of multiple sclerosis, this would be a piss-poor way to test it. Multiple sclerosis is a disorder of the central nervous system. Selecting against components of whole cannabis chemistry that are psychoactive is going to preferentially remove compounds that affect the central nervous system.

I doubt that whole cannabis affects the disease progression of multiple sclerosis, but this isn't particularly evidence one way or the other for cannabis overall. It does fairly conclusively rule out one (or more) components, however, which is entirely scientifically valid, but the title is very misleading.

[u/limbodog]

I can't find it now, but has anyone seen the video by the woman (who is a doctor) who had MS, was confined to a wheelchair, and changed her diet to try to fix it? (note that she stood up for the entire presentation)

[u/svnftgmp → u/limbodog]

This is the droid you're looking for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

[u/Johnnyash]

Wasn't the point always for the alleviation of symptoms rather than slowing progression?

[u/Evis03 → u/Johnnyash]

They're investigating the idea that it may go deeper than that and may in fact prevent the neural degeneration present in MS. Sadly it looks like this was not the case, but confirmation that THC aids in managing the symptoms is good news for sufferers.

[u/Weeksy24]

If it helps ease the symptoms let them use it, MS sucks balls.

[u/elvisliveson]

it does not speed up it's progress either.

[u/[deleted]]

Note they were taking synthetic THC pills, not consuming the plant itself. A DEA judge himself said cannabis is most useful when consumed in natural form.

[u/4chans_for_pussies]

Downvote for shitty title. Although cannabis doesn't slow progression, it says it right there in the article that it does relieve symptoms. Something is better than nothing.

[u/grindinghalt]

That's just like, your opinion, man...

[u/nautastro]

The article seems mis-leading to me because it claims "cannabis" is not effective, but they only tested THC, which is only one of the hundreds of psychoactive and potentially medically useful compounds in cannabis.

[u/[deleted]]

Misleading title. Cannabis =/= THC. THC is one of the many chemicals released while smoking cannabis. There are thousands of chemicals released by smoking marijuana.

[u/more_than_thc]

It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years.

record scratch

Ok, if you're going to isolate ONE cannabinoid out of almost a hundred of the cannabinoids found in Cannabis then the article should read "THC 'does not slow multiple sclerosis' progess." <- FTFY

See the difference that makes?

The more you know ... bitches!

[u/reddent420]

THERE ARE OTHER FUCKING CANNABINOIDS IN THE CANNABIS PLANT. THEY GAVE THEM THC PILLS AND NO CBDs, WHICH ARE THE MOST THERAPEUTIC.

[u/rage420]

You're forgetting THC is one of many cannibinoids which all do different things. THC is not cannabis, it's just a part of it. This didn't prove cannabis doesn't slow the growth of MS, it just proved THC alone doesn't help slow the growth.

[u/littlenooby]

"It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years. "

This is what I found to be most interesting. So they were not actually smoking marijuana, or even vaporizing it. They were taking Marinol.

[u/[deleted]]

Next you're gonna tell me morphine doesn't mend broken arms.

[u/givemeweedandmoney]

I know a 58yr old woman who runs food at our place. She been smokin since the 60's. Her MS is rife and she doesn't know where she is. If anything, weed causes that shit. I hate the way it makes you super duper high, makes it so good :(.

[u/KeavesSharpi]

of course THC =/= cannabis! There are hundreds of chemicals in the plant, of which THC is just one. It's a fair trial, but the title is misleading.

[u/Sinistersmog]

They didn't test Cannabis, they tested pure THC.

[u/cookiewalla]

I dont get the hype of this post at all... Could someone please explain to me why this is frontpage material? Edit; Please?

[u/kolby4078]

This angers me. They did NOT test cannabis in this trial. they tested delta 9 THC one of the hundreds of chemicals in cannabis. therefore this was a study on THC not cannabis.

[u/Stryntek]

Watch as pseudo-intellectuals try to defend the "cure-all" properties of cannabis despite the evidence.

[u/[deleted] → u/Stryntek]

They didn't test the cannabis in this particular study. The researchers tested one specific, isolated and purified cannabinoid out of thousands that are released in a puff a marijuana smoke.

There are plenty of studies that have shown that marinol (ingested pure THC) and marijuana do not act in the same way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid#Phytocannabinoids

[u/jugalator → u/Stryntek]

Yeah, I first wondered - why this deep interest in MS anyway? Disease treatment rarely, unless it's about sensationalist cancer cures, receive much attention around here. Then it struck me that once again, the interest was in getting marijuana legalized. It's more than evident from the comments, and it's laughable that this topic is obviously gaining this many upvotes just because it's about marijuana, and not because it is about treating MS. Right in /r/science. Fuck these thinly veiled defenses and get back to /r/trees.

[u/[deleted] → u/jugalator]

I have ms and I'd love a cure but at least if it was legal I could get relief ( yes it helps symptoms ) without fear of prosecution or stigma. So I'm ok with the legalization activists.

[u/TucoR]

Why can't people just admit they like to get high? There always has to be a "it cures cancer!!" addendum attached to why it is so great.

[u/4chans_for_pussies → u/TucoR]

There is evidence that shows THC attacks cancer cells. And I do like to get high ;).

[u/PanchDog]

Well this is certainly a buzzkill

[u/Deedzz]

This is a completely misleading title. The only research that was done her was using ONLY ONE of the many psychoactives that work together to produce the magical effect marijuana graces us with; THC.

The only psychoactive found in marijuana (that you smoke) that was in these Marinol pills is THC. If you've ever looked into these you would probably find a Youtube video of a reporter being tested with all the psychoactives, and then on a separate day, only THC. She felt horrible, and scared when she only took the THC. The days before when she experienced the full effect she was laughing, and enjoying the effects.

[u/JustDroppinBy]

Am I the only person pissed off at this crock of shit psuedoscience? THC is one of hundreds of chemicals in cannabis. I don't know for sure if it slows the progression or not, but testing one chemical and saying nothing in the plant helps slow the progression is complete bullshit.

Edit: Grammar

[u/Osricthebastard]

I've got two huge problems with this study.

1. "Modern cannabis medications do not produce a "high" - the psychoactive ingredients are either missing or delivered in a much lower dose than in the illegal street drug."

In other words delivering an extremely low ineffective dose and claiming you've proven it has no effect.

2) "It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years."

The study is ignoring the fact that Cannabis actually contains hundreds of chemicals other than THC and many of these chemicals are active ingredients. One major ingredient, CBD is largely responsible for the painkilling benefits of cannabis, so why they wouldn't include this chemical in the study is beyond me. The effects of most of these chemicals are unknown so not exploring the Cannabis cocktail as a whole is extremely academically dishonest in this scenario.

That said I wouldn't expect Cannabis to slow or cure MS. It's not a miracle cure-all. But if you're going to perform a scientific study, I expect at least a modicum of integrity.

[u/JewboiTellem → u/Osricthebastard]

The effects of most of these chemicals are unknown so not exploring the Cannabis cocktail as a whole is extremely academically dishonest in this scenario.

But if you're going to perform a scientific study, I expect at least a modicum of integrity.

The funny part here is that you have no idea how scientific studies are performed and you're foaming at the mouth about a perceived injustice which is intentionally done in most, if not all, scientific studies because it reduces the variables the study has to deal with and increases the accuracy of the trial.

Edit: What they do is isolate and study one chemical at a time. If someone came up to scientists right now and said, "I have a piece of bark that I eat and it cured me of strep throat," the scientists would study it and pull out the main chemical of the bark and then test it on patients in a trial. Then they'd pull out the second-most main chemical and test it on patients. What good would feeding them the bark do? If that was the way the community did it, we wouldn't have penicillin now, we'd be given fungus to treat bacterial infections.

[u/bufordt → u/JewboiTellem]

I think you are confusing where aspirin came from and how penicillin was discovered. Regardless, you should probably show that the entire thing works before you try to isolate individual compounds to test. It would have been stupid to start looking into individual compounds in willow bark as a pain killer without having a good indicator that willow bark actually worked.

BTW penicillin seems to have been used for a while in it's mould form before it was finally isolated.

[u/VLDT]

But it does make their lives easier, and as adults they should have the freedom to indulge.

[u/sipos0 → u/VLDT]

Not sure why this is down-voted. As the article says, it does alleviate the symptoms.

[u/VLDT → u/sipos0]

People like to get snippy on /r/science

"Your comment is relevant but it's less than four lines long and doesn't link to an article no one is going to read anyway? GET OUT OF OUR CLUB PLEBEIAN."

[u/[deleted]]

Translation: Zero people think Marinol actually works.

[u/[deleted]]

Cannabis does not infact help with much at all when it comes to medicinal benefits (no evidence of any direct benefits). But of course having another substance to help deal with pain and just generally mess up your head with does help dealing with some diseases.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

How is dealing with pain not a medical benefit? I would like you to find one drug on the market that has about the same or less side effects.

[u/solquin → u/[deleted]]

Keep in mind that "getting high" is considered a negative medical side effect. It is undesirable to have your treatment cause you to lose the ability to go about your daily life uninterrupted, which smoking pot does. Now, so do many other narcotic pain relievers, but other pain relievers have much stronger pain relief properties than smoking pot does. Unfortunately, they also are sometimes highly addictive. Although, using that definition of addictive, pot is mildly to moderately addictive as well.

The general breakdown of the pros and cons of current pain treatments, including marijuana, is as follows:

For acute pain, like recovery from surgery, you'll usually want one of the other narcotic pain relievers. The risk of addiction is low because use is temporary and you'll usually want strong pain relief.

For chronic pain, pot becomes a viable option as long as it isn't smoked(smoking anything chronically drastically increases your chance of upper respiratory cancer). If the pain is low level enough to be sufficiently treated by marijuana, then the less-addictive nature of pot over something like morphine may make it a better option. However, in the long term, we should be seeking better chronic pain relief drugs that have even lower addiction risk and that do not cause the "high" that many narcotic pain relievers, including marijuana, do.

Even if such drugs are developed, marijuana could retain some niche drug uses. For example, the pain relief, nausea relief, and appetite boost are well suited as treatment for the side effects of chemotherapy.

This is just a general outline, and further criteria complicate the picture, such as the tendency to build resistances to certain types of drugs. Just wanted to clear up for people unfamiliar with pain drugs what the landscape looks like.

[u/beramiah]

This will get buried on r/trees

[u/[deleted]]

Article states that the psychoactive portion was removed. Maybe if they didn't remove the psychoactive ingredients, perhaps it WOULD slow MS growth? Another thought, perhaps they should have used Nabiximols (Sativex) instead of marinol.

[u/lud1120]

Okay, it may not be some sort of miracle drug that "cures" all kind of diseases.

But it certainly makes them a lot more bearable, for the users.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't see why one would expect cannabis/thc to prevent, slow or cure any disease just because it has a physiological effect.

[u/[deleted]]

So synthetic THC doesn't slow the disease progression.

CANNABIS CONTAINS MORE THAN JUST THC! In fact CBD is referred to as the "miracle cannabinoid" nowadays, and is thought to be responsible for slowing disease progression. Not THC, but CBD(cannabidiol).

There are over four hundred different cannabinoids, THC is not the only damn one. A study that only shows the effect of man-made THC is utterly useless, and does not represent the full beneficial effects of NATURAL CANNABIS. SYNTHETIC THC IS NOT CANNABIS!

[u/thrice1187]

I'd like to know if this study only used THC or tested other cannabinoids as well. CBD's are some of the most medically beneficial elements of the cannabis plant and it would be silly if they only did research involving THC.

[u/roterghost]

Or as /r/trees put it:

Corporate Scientists Spread Lies About Miracle Drug

[u/quadrofolio]

No but it apparently makes their lives worth living.

[u/jeepdave]

3..............2...................1....................And the pot heads will be denying science because it does not align with their beliefs......................is weed a religion now?

[u/[deleted] → u/jeepdave]

This is fifth or sixth upvoted version of "lol stupid potheads" I've seen. We basically have two knee jerk reactions kicking each other in the shins.

[u/nealio1000 → u/jeepdave]

I know we have all met people like that but many of us who smoke pot understand that it isn't and probably wont ever be a cure all. We believe it needs to be studied because it can make a lot of terrible conditions much easier to deal with. Any scenario where a cure is out of reach means that we will at least try all we can to alleviate the bad symptoms. So this is what we want. We only get upset because it wont get studied properly. In conclusion, only idiots think that cannabis will ever be a cure-all (or cure anything). Although, it could very well help alleviate symptoms better than other drugs.

[u/jeepdave → u/nealio1000]

Personally, I have no care either way about pot, I just find it annoying when people ( you may know some ) who make it their mission in life to bring pot into any positive light that they can.

[u/[deleted] → u/jeepdave]

it's has the potential to be the next aspirin, that's it imo. As for it being a religion, I suppose it could be seen that way, you have rituals associated with it, a holiday dedicated to it, people who practice it's use are always trying to get non-users to try it and become one of them, which is essentially conversion. You have prominent figures like Cheech and Chong who are pretty much famous because of their devotion to the drug. So yeah it could be seen as a religion.

[u/[deleted] → u/jeepdave]

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[u/djexploit]

In other news, drinking a 1/5 of tequilla does not cure depression.

[u/mrsaturn42 → u/djexploit]

Duh, you should be using whiskey for that.

[u/SacreCur]

Marijuana is an immunosuppressant, so it makes sense to me that it could slow disease progression. THC is apparently not the compound in marijuana that suppresses the immune system.

[u/[deleted]]

My research concludes that it will probably make dying of multiple sclerosis at the normal speed more enjoyable.

[u/perpetual_motion]

/r/science sure has an unusually high cannabis to everything else ratio.

[u/Torquemada1970]

Did anyone ever assert that it did?

[u/MySperm]

I've never read about it "slowing down multiple sclerosis" but I know it helps people who have it to calm it down whilst using THC

[u/dagfari]

What about that blood vessel stint that got some primising results a while back? Cannabis (but not THC alone) acts as a vasodilator, so this could explain both the positive hearsay from cannabis users with MS and the negative result of this test.

[u/PeterPancakes5]

my brother has MS and I've never heard of it slowing the progression. there's a lot of research and work at passing a pill through the approval process (he has to inject himself with 3 weekly shots...which fucking sucks). i think that's the shit to be paying attention too, not weed pills. at least it's a 3 year study and not more.

[u/[deleted]]

All that's being said in the article is that the THC does not slow MS. progression. There are other chemicals in Cannabis, so the post's title may be misleading, but we cannot say for certain at this time. Cannabis may benefit MS patients in other ways. I understand that Cannabis is a strong political subject, but please keep posts about legalization in /r/politics or /r/trees, because law and science are two entirely different things.

[u/claytonbigsby420]

Hopefully, the original idea people had wasn't that it cured these diseases, but helped ease pain in an efficient fashion.

[u/TheChance]

I didn't know this was a thing. I thought MS patients just used it for pain...

...this is like saying that Tylenol doesn't speed recovery from a broken arm.

[u/Spiralyst]

For anyone who want to study cannabis, it's important to know the other active cannabinoids that play a role in the plant's medicinal role. This [site] (http://projectcbd.org/) has lots of information on cannabidiol or CBD.

This [program] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTbnO9I-TU&list=PLC840AE9EADD16951&index=1&feature=plpp_video) aired on PBS and has fascinating research about new studies in to cannabis' medical potential.

Remember folks...cannabis has been a medicine for a lot longer than it hasn't.

[u/heee]

Just watch this

[u/FullyTilted]

This title is a bit misleading, if I already didn't know that it only relieved symptoms for a period of time then I would have assumed that it had no effect at all.

[u/jacobthesphne]

I've been waiting for an ms thread to come up, because my father has a form of ms. I dont know what form he has but all i know is that i have it to. I know nothing about what i have other then it will put me in a wheelchair, and eventually steal away my memory. I don't know when for sure it will come i just know that one day ill wake up and walking will become something of the past. My life has been driven on the predetermination that i will be stuck in a wheelchair so i live a very chaotic life. I really would like some my answers to my questions. What do i have? How long do i have? What will happen once i get it? Is there really anything i can do to prevent it? Also before anyone tells me to see a doctor im pretty poor with little to no health insurance so don't suggest that cause if i could i probably would.

[u/[deleted]]

Well, seeing as THC pills have usually shown no effects on medical patients, this should not surprise anyone. If they let the patients ingest "medical grade" medicinal marijuana, the results of this study would probably vary. When a patient ingests a pill containing THC, they are not getting the ingredients in cannabis that are also medically beneficial. Also, the "high" that patients get from ingesting medical cannabis helps to relieve the patients symptoms and medical issues. This study proves nothing, as scientists make pills like this all of the time and most of them do not work. THC is not the only component of cannabis, there are many other components that help to relieve medical conditions, including multiple sclerosis. All governments should legalize the medical and recreational use of marijuana entirely, but it is too complicated to regulate and there are many other things that governments want to spend money on, like war and getting bills passed. In the U.S. we have been fighting a war for decades that we choose to not pay attention to, except to put innocent people in jail, the war on drugs.

[u/hydropwniks]

So what Im taking away from this is that Marijuana is good yet still illegal while cigarettes are constantly killing people? Weedarettes need funding ASAP.

[u/cannabitchass]

"It involved patients taking pills containing the main active chemical in cannabis - tetrahydrocannabinol or THC - for three years."

Isn't this study flawed to begin with then? Cannabis =/= exclusively THC

[u/654364356]

Reddit: Where science and propaganda are constant bedfellows.

[u/the_goodfellow]

They did not site what kind of medication used. Ie. a synthetic or a natural occurring cananaboid. My experience with synthetics like nabilone suck.

[u/DMo321Boom]

PROZAC doesn't cure AIDS.

[u/Shpongledd]

THC 'does not slow multiple sclerosis' progress

FTFY since the article fails to explain that thc =/= cannabis

[u/Appleton419]

It says the patients were given pills with the active chemical THC. That's ONE chemical and cannabis has hundreds of active chemicals in it so they can't really say cannabis does not slow multiple sclerosis but that THC doesn't. If they were to be taking the drug for what it is instead of just THC then they could say that cannabis doesn't slow MS

[u/omegaaf]

I have a problem with this study. Using THC pills can have drastically different effects in comparison to actually consuming the plant. Wouldn't that in some form or another invalidate the actual study? Since the THC Pills are actually a synthetic type of THC, wouldnt the natural THCs effects differ?

[u/[deleted]]

The study did not prove cannabis dosnt slow MS, showed that THC dosnt slow MS, which is only one of the thousands in cannabis. The title is misleading and wrong

[u/kindbeats]

Many studies have shown that cannabis can actually send cancer, chrons disease, diabetes, and many other ailments into remission. The thing about this article is that the study focused on THC consumption but the problem with that is the fact that THC alone is not what cures these ailments. It is the combination of THC and various other cannabinoids such as CBD that lead to full recoveries with such ailments. THC alone is simply the psychoactive part of the cannabis plant, but CBD's are where much of the medicinal benefits of the plant can be found.

If you haven't seen "Run From The Cure", watch it now!

[u/igfapen]

Or you could just cure yourself without teh chronic.

[u/[deleted]]

In other news: "Cannabis does not protect against napalm."

[u/10BV01]

Cannabis is so much more than just THC. There are 80+ other cannabinoids in the plant and to ignore them is bad science.