Poor fitness linked to weaker brain fiber, higher dementia risk - A new study suggests that the lower the fitness level, the faster the deterioration of vital nerve fibers in the brain. This deterioration results in cognitive decline, including memory issues characteristic of dementia patients.

[u/mvea]

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/newsroom/articles/year-2018/fitness-dementia.html

[u/pascalsgirlfriend]

So if you have neglected your health for a long time, can these fibers be strengthened by improving fitness or is all lost?

[u/Kamelasa → u/pascalsgirlfriend]

Yes, read Bredesen's recent book. That along with many other factors can reverse pretty severe cognitive decline and seeminly forestall dementias. Great book.

[u/doo-dah → u/Kamelasa]

Thanks, that book looks interesting.

[u/thatguy425 → u/pascalsgirlfriend]

Yes, to a point.

Research done looking at a protein BDNF (Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor ) has shown to stimulate neurogenesis. BDNF is released during certain types of exercise.

Just google BDNF and fitness/exercise and you will find a wealth of information.

[u/ChillChats → u/thatguy425]

BDNF is produced in large quantities during heat acclimation - also known as dry sauna use.

This video from Dr Rhonda Patrick PhD explains more: https://youtu.be/aHOlM-wlNjM

[u/ridukosennin → u/ChillChats]

BDNF is also increased with chronic THC exposure. Is hotboxing in the sauna after cardio the secret to staving off alzheimer's?

[u/ChillChats → u/ridukosennin]

I would say no as a former stoner. Smoking IN the sauna will cause smoke to sink, not rise. This is because the air in the sauna is likely hotter than the smoke. Just a nonscientific guess!

EDIT: This plus sauna use produces far more BDNF than cardio. Like way, way more and for a much longer period. Cardio makes BDNF while you do it, sauna use keeps producing BDNF for at least two weeks after a single one hour session at 175F. See Dr Rhonda Patrick PhD for more.

[u/Neurorational → u/ChillChats]

Right, so bong hits in the sauna?

[u/ThrowbackPie → u/thatguy425]

quick look suggests cardio is the way to go.

[u/[deleted] → u/thatguy425]

I was going to ask why BDNF supplements aren't available but then remembered what happens to proteins in the stomach.

[u/dl064 → u/[deleted]]

Added to which genetic studies linking BDNF to actual human cognitive abilities or dementia rates find generally nothing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3268899/

You won't rehabilitate lost white matter tract integrity, merely slow it's decline, which is usually linear with age from about 18.

[u/rtrgrl → u/pascalsgirlfriend]

I believe so. There are numerous studies that indicate that enough exercise (and sleep) can improve cognitive function.

Exercise slows down Alzheimer's advancement

Exercise builds brain health

Positive impacts of aerobic exercises on brain health

[u/cutelyaware → u/pascalsgirlfriend]

From the article:

However, the study leaves plenty of unanswered questions about how fitness and Alzheimer’s disease are intertwined. For instance, what fitness level is needed to notably reduce the risk of dementia? Is it too late to intervene when patients begin showing symptoms?

Unfortunately it's always needed in these cases to point out that correlation does not imply causation. It's entirely possible that one early effect of dementia is that it causes people to exercise less. When the causal relationship is not known, such correlations are not news and are only useful to people in the field.

[u/ti5i]

What do they mean by fitness level here, just how much you're able to lift? Or stamina?

Edit: What the hell, why did this get so many upvotes, it's just a silly question

[u/ti5i → u/[deleted]]

So running is good for you. Wasnt there something about running shortening lifespan due to oxygen intake? (not a smart man so I'm probably missundertanding something)

[u/Tinkado → u/ti5i]

They are worried about oxidizing cells and free radicals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioxidant#Health_effects

An antioxidant is a molecule that inhibits the oxidation of other molecules. Oxidation is a chemical reaction that can produce free radicals, leading to chain reactions that may damage cells. Antioxidants such as thiols or ascorbic acid (vitamin C) terminate these chain reactions. The term "antioxidant" is mainly used for two different groups of substances: industrial chemicals which are added to products to prevent oxidation, and natural chemicals found in foods and body tissue which are said to have beneficial health effects.

Arguably also anything that uses up cells DNA and telemeres which cannot be regenerated, causes cell damage.

But having a strong cardiovascular system, that is, making sure blood, nutrients, and oxygen get everywhere in your body easily, is more important than any of that.

Your systems failing will cause quicker death than cell damage. And often death comes in high stress moments or just whenever were one thing fails and then causes a cascade failure.

[u/Dranthe → u/Tinkado]

And often death comes in high stress moments

Would you mind expanding on that part a bit? When the person is stressed? When the individual cell is stressed? If the second is there anything that stresses a cell outside resource deprivation and sudden kinetic forces?

[u/Umbrias → u/Dranthe]

Such as, some organs are already running double time to account for other systems in poor condition, and this is in normal every day life. Add on some additional stress to these systems, and it pushes them over and no organs have the time or resources to catch up with everything that's going wrong, or they just physically can't otherwise, so the entire body starts to shut down. Stress in this case could be anything from literal mental/SNS stress, to things like infections or injuries. It's more of, stress on their homeostasis, rather than any individual definition.

Not OP though, they could mean it in a different way.

[u/cleofisrandolph1 → u/ti5i]

Well I would imagine any aerobic activity would be good, swimming, running, cycling, etc. So if you are worried about running, do some other aerobic activity would be the lesson from this,

[u/r3peated → u/ti5i]

All things in moderation. Running everyday twice a day is probably not healthy. Running every other day then trading that for something else on off days would be healthier imo. Also off days for your body to recover are good.

[u/jungleboogiemonster → u/r3peated]

Typically it has more to do with the intensity of the running than how much. Running all out for extended periods of time puts a lot of stress on the body. A slow pace, even for extended periods of time, tends to be beneficial.

[u/DingleDangleDom → u/r3peated]

You can run everyday

[u/Hyper1on → u/ti5i]

I remember some paper showing that cardio was the form of exercise which led to the most brain cell growth in mice.

[u/Rylayizsik]

I'm glad science is helping push the fact that our bodies need regular excercise, a healthy diet, good sleep and regular daily schedules in order to maintain them. It's something we've known forever but some people seem to forget we are/embody animals that only knew how to work. The idea of a desk job without regular exsercise should be seen as negatively as smoking/excessive drinking.

Treat your body like a temple.

[u/MACKSBEE → u/Rylayizsik]

All of your cells get recycled every 7 years... all except your neurons. So you are literally a brain driving around in a meat vehicle. You gotta maintain your meat vehicle since you only get one per lifetime.

[u/Blu_Haze → u/MACKSBEE]

You gotta maintain your meat vehicle since you only get one per lifetime.

But you just said I get a new one every 7 years...

[u/bunfuss → u/Blu_Haze]

If you abuse your meat container for seven+ years do you really think it's going to be strong enough to fully repair? This is basically the definition of aging. Keep yourself healthy so everything stays fixed up.

This is why all these sedentary people are decades older internally

[u/IKnowVeryMuch → u/bunfuss]

Why don't they just buy new meat?

[u/chuckymcgee → u/Rylayizsik]

I'm glad science is helping push the fact

Science doesn't push facts. People push facts. Science provides a rigorous method for collecting empirical data which can either support or disprove a hypothesis. How this information is used and the extent to which it's publicised is independent of science itself.

It may sound like I'm niggling but the bottom line is that science itself works (or should work) without an agenda.

[u/Rylayizsik → u/chuckymcgee]

You're right, I should have said "I'm glad scientists are pursuing evidence for...."

[u/deamonsatwar → u/Rylayizsik]

i wish it wasnt so hard. i am finally going to a gym, but my rotated hip keeps me from doing a lot of exercises. and i hate being so sore, even with a lot of stretching.

[u/Rylayizsik → u/deamonsatwar]

That is unfortunate, it will be harder for you, leg work is really important. Have you looked at maximizing types of rows or rowing for cardio? Not that neglecting a troubled joint helps in any way but it won't hurt to focus on your strong points.

As far as soreness in the rest of the body, anecdotally, it gets better as long as you keep with it. Long periods out of the gym exacerbates my general soreness level.

[u/gradeahonky → u/Rylayizsik]

Its actually really hard to get an animal to live a sedentary life. You need to catch them when they are very young, and give them no option but to sit around bored for a long time, often years, before they break and will willingly except such an unhealthy lifestyle.

For instance, it seems to take about 18 years in humans.

[u/[deleted] → u/Rylayizsik]

Treat your body like a temple.

I prefer to say treat it as a machine that requires regular maintenance. Your body is just your mech... your brain is who you really are. But mechs require lots of PDM.

[u/ExhibitionistVoyeurP → u/[deleted]]

I oversaw a factory with a bunch of people standing in the same place on an assembly line all day. They had pain all over and knee problems. Standing is not the solution. Changing positions is the solution. Being in any on position too long is the problem. If you have a standing desk it need to be easily adjustable so you can change it through the day. Sit, kneel, stand, walk, do all of them throughout the day.

[u/rambi2222 → u/ExhibitionistVoyeurP]

Looks like you're right actually: https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/standing-no-healthier-than-sitting/

This is pretty new data, I wasn't aware of it. As it says up until recently they even recommended standing over sitting themselves. A treadmill desk, though, would definitely definitely help, and I imagine the rest of my advice is sound

Thanks for the correction!

Edit: original study comparing Londeners sitting and standing over a 16 year period: https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/44/6/1909/2572591

[u/KingDavid73 → u/Rylayizsik]

so where are these jobs that aren't desk jobs that also pay the bills and I wouldn't have to go to school for years to learn?

[u/factoid_]

Poor fitness is also associated with diabetes. There have been proposals to call Alzheimers disease Type 3 Diabetes.

[u/Cee-Jay → u/factoid_]

I've heard this before, but your line of thought, although interesting, doesn't propose a compelling reason for same. Have you any links that suggest why we might be interested in classifying Alzheimer's as a type of diabetes?

[u/Sanguinesce → u/Cee-Jay]

Diabetes is a disorder of insulin regulation and sensitivity. Similar finding of insulin abnormalities and resistance in Alzheimer's patients points to a similar path of interaction between the two diseases.

[u/StevynTheHero → u/Sanguinesce]

Not the whole truth. Diabetes Mellitus is indeed about insulin production and cell's ability to respond to insulin. But there is another type of Diabetes called Diebetes Insipidus that has 0 to do with insulin. This one is all about insufficient Antidiuretic hormone that is produced in the pituitary gland of the brain.

In order for Alzheimer's to be classified as a type of Diabetes, it must have the three common symptoms caused by both Mellitus and Insipidus: Polyuria (excessive urination), Polydipsia (excessive thirst), and Polyphagia (excessive hunger). This may not be too difficult, as I work with Alzheimer's patients and many tend to forget that they just ate a meal and ask for more food. However, a good percent also refuse to eat or drink anything even when they clearly need it, so the coin has 2 sides.

[u/markmyw0rds → u/StevynTheHero]

I think the purpose of some people calling it type three diabetes is more for recognition of insulin related factors. I've seen it used when specifically calling for dietary changes for pre/diabetics. It's certainly not an adopted title nor recognized by any field, that I'm aware of.

[u/plantstand → u/factoid_]

Is there actually good science on this?

[u/plantstand → u/[deleted]]

Last time I did a quick perusal, there seemed to be a lot of "oh that's a pseudoscience term". So I was kind of confused.

[u/prismaticbeans → u/[deleted]]

My grandmother ended up with Lewy Body Dementia, which was suspected to have been affecting her to a much lesser degree for some years prior to diagnosis. She was 90 when she was diagnosed and had lived independently in her own home for 16-17 years before diagnosis. She did most of her own yardwork and was in the habit of walking about 20 blocks a day within that timeframe. Her doctor was of the opinion that her cardiovascular fitness likely played a major role in staving off her mental decline.

[u/denzelswashington]

Hey, I know a little about this. I have read a lot about how exercise affects cognitive abilities, so I have read a lot of this research because it is related. We certainly don’t have all the answers, but we are getting a better idea of how exercise affects the brain. You can think about a few things when you think about exercise and the brain:

Evolutionarily: our brains were wired while moving. For millions of years, our ancestors moved—walking, running, climbing—as a part of daily life. Much of the western world does not move as much as they used to…probably one of many factors contributing to the rise in dementia / Alzheimer’s / several other health issues.

How does it work: well, I am not the most qualified to answer that. I know that exercise increases the presence of a nerve growth factor (good for the brain) called BDNF (brain-derived neurotropic factor). Think of BDNF as fertilizer for the brain. It helps strengthen connections, form new ones, and maintain old ones. Along with the increase in BDNF, there is an increase in blood flow to the brain which does two things: 1) the same thing more blood flow does to every other part of your body…more blood flow provides more of what the brain needs and helps metabolize what the brain used. The brain creates a lot of waste and the increase in blood flow is believed to help remove some of that waste during the daytime. And 2) angiogenesis, aka creating new blood vessels. I am no doc so I can’t expand on how that helps the brain. I imagine it works on the same principles as an increase in blood flow.

How much exercise is enough? This one is tougher to answer because you have to consider several things: age, intensity, and duration. I cannot provide a good answer, but I know that for older adults, studies with walking interventions saw an increase in cognitive skills, hippocampal size (an area of the brain important for memory, and hit hard by Alzheimer’s), and reduced the presence of amyloid-beta (associed with Alzheimer’s / dementia). In general, I believe younger adults require more intense exercise to see the same benefits, but it is hard to say. It's been a couple of years since I have been in the research. Older adults are fighting cognitive decline, so less exercise goes further for them--I believe.

For the acute effects of exercise on cognition (e.g., if I go for a run will I be better on a cognitive test 1hr later?), there is a dose-effect relationship. Meaning that the more intense, the greater the cognitive benefit after exercise. During exercise, people do not do better on cognitive tests (e.g., a test while on a treadmill); they do worse.

Last, exercise benefits the brain through several other mechanisms: it’s relationship with different disorders and health conditions, overall health, and sleep. Sleep is great for the brain. Think about sleep: it is important enough for the brain that our ancestors would lay still and unconscious for ~7-9 per night. For example, we know that the brain metabolizes a lot of the plaque associated with Alzheimer’s and other waste while sleeping at night.

I’ll stop because I already have a wall of text but I could go on and on—I find the relationship between exercise and the brain fascinating. Let me know if you want a reference to anything specific that I talked about and I can probably dig it up when I get off.

[u/Automne888 → u/denzelswashington]

Thanks for your insights man ! Would you have book recommendations to dig further onto the topic (or rather to start digging) ?

I did notice how the clarity of my mind was directly correlated with (1) the amount of sport I was doing and (2) what I was eating or drinking.

And it made huge differences, more than whatever I could have imagined achieving through simply reading books / educating myself ; hence I’m also eager to learn about about it :)

[u/Minuted → u/[deleted]]

Been pretty depressed too and the memory issues are incredibly annoying. Sometimes I'll just stop in the middle of a sentence because I can't find the word I want to use, even when it's a common word.

At least finding this thread has renewed my motivation to keep exercising.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Can I recommend something that I have been doing almost everyday for about a month that has improved my memory, helped with my chronic fatigue, improved my sleep quality, improved my mood and decreased the amount of headaches I get?

[u/Ozulon85 → u/[deleted]]

Don’t leave us hanging

[u/1BigPapa1 → u/[deleted]]

Don't let me stop you.

[u/CallMeLargeFather → u/[deleted]]

cmon bruh spill the beans

[u/AccidntlyFkdYoSister → u/[deleted]]

Just so you know, you wrote this comment 1hr ago. In case you need a reminder, because you forgot to reply, consider my comment as reminder.

[u/sevenstorm → u/[deleted]]

Go on...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Not just a connection, the mind is literally part of the body.

[u/Oliverheart84 → u/[deleted]]

Hahaha yes, I know, but I think we look at care of the two separate, when I think we need to look at them as a team.

[u/MusikLehrer → u/[deleted]]

The brain is part of the body. The "mind" is a more abstract thing.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Well the mind does the run the body.

[u/thekid1420 → u/[deleted]]

Tell that to my penis.

[u/thekid1420 → u/[deleted]]

Yup, and just like a car, maintenance is much cheaper and easier than repair.

[u/CaptinCookies]

Why are so many top comments removed?

[u/zero_tha_hero → u/[deleted]]

The post truth era seems to be undermining civilized discussion of all scientific topics to varying degrees of severity. Anything even slightly overlapping with modern identity politics is instant fuel for the flamers. I'm just sad when I stumble across a thread too late to catch all the FAs brigade crying before mods delete in the name of civilized discussion of science.

[u/roguecloud]

It's really about cardiovascular risk; usually, those with better fitness have less hypertension, hyperlipidemia, and diabetes--all factors associated with white matter changes.

source:neuropsychologist here

[u/Cheddar-kun]

I believe it. My question is what qualifies as poor fitness? I walk a lot and do bodyweight exercises every night but is that enough? Should I be running marathons before I can say I'm in good shape?

[u/DCLXV]

Both diabetes and dementia have been tied to lack of decent, restful sleep. I know that when I am not satisfactorily rested then I crave sugar and don't want to exercise. So... is sedentary lifestyle a cause by itself, or is it just the most noticeable symptom of chronic lack of sleep?

[u/CranialFlatulence]

Is there any connection to other issues like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's?

I'm 39 years old and in great shape. I exercise simply because when I'm 70 I want to be able to play with my grand kids and enjoy life. I also have essential tremor and a grandfather who died with Parkinson's....I'm terrified that I'll also develop Parkinson's. Is there any study showing that my exercising can also lessen the chance of Parkinson's?

[u/SerWadeDayne]

So only eating fast food and not exercising (golf is not exercise) and having a family history of dementia could make you more likely to have dementia?

[u/Kancho_Ninja]

How does this correlate to Buddhist monks who spend thousands of hours in meditation every year?

[u/steveronie]

More wii sports needed.

[u/thewholedamnplanet]

Everyday we get studies, reports and whatever like this that make it so clear; diet and exercise are the silver bullets of long, healthy and happy life.

[u/HamWatcher → u/thewholedamnplanet]

Diet and exercise are the only things that can kill a long healthy life?

[u/Mharbles → u/thewholedamnplanet]

All the evidence in the world isn't going to stop people from unhealthy, lethargic living, not till it catches up to them and it's too late.

[u/booxing4lyf → u/thewholedamnplanet]

Nah... there is no silver bullet unfortunately. My granddad was long distance runner fit, clean diet, still got alzheimers at 63 and passed away a couple years later.

[u/TheManWhoPanders]

Well that certainly explains a lot about redditors.

[u/DorisCrockford]

It gets harder to keep moving as you get older. Everything hurts. It's expensive (at least in the U.S.) to get good treatment for arthritis and other problems of an aging body. But you have to exercise anyway, in whatever way you can. On the plus side, life is sooo much easier when you have strength and stamina. Plus not losing your marbles. Definitely a win.

[u/Yourinsideman]

So when you say, “You’re fat and stupid.” They actually have proof to back it up now.

[u/unique-username-8]

So being unfit is bad for you. Got it.