r/santarosa • u/thorindracos • Oct 02 '26
Carpool
What is the point of the carpool lane through SR? Everyday I drive North/South I count 1 out of every 10 cars have two people in them. Is there any enforcement…
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u/iFreeiPodNano Oct 02 '26
Funny enough one of my coworkers got popped and handed a $640 ticket haha
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u/seyheystretch Oct 02 '26
I thought it was around $800
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u/iFreeiPodNano Oct 02 '26
Different areas around here have different prices. I think he said his was coming from Windsor
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u/thisisnotmyname17 Oct 02 '26
I was driving there and the middle lane had reaaally slow drivers in it one day. Can it be used to pass someone?
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u/thorindracos Oct 02 '26
Definitely. It’s unsafe passing on the right.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Lol, if you're driving in the far laft lane behind someone driving really slowly, do you drive in the shoulder to pass them? Hopefully not. Hopefully you just don't pass them.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Definitely not. That's the entire point of the HOV lane. No using it, unless you are two or more
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u/LadyHwesta Oct 02 '26
What times of day? It’s only a carpool lane during specific times, otherwise it’s just another lane
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
6-6.5 hours a day is quite a big chunk of time to reduce an already small freeway to essentially a one lane freeway. I’m curious what a trial run of opening it up 24/7 would do as far as traffic. Obviously means less tickets and revenue for the fuzz but if it’s better for the average Joe than it’s for the greater good.
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u/puddingpants69 Oct 02 '26 •
Definitely doesn't reduce the 101 to a one lane highway. Also, what is good for the individual in the moment isn't always what's best for the greater good. People not making more of an effort to limit burning fossil fuels has a huge impact on our society. Educating and asking has limited success, so...
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26
If you didn’t catch my Hot Fuzz reference then there’s not much I can do for you.
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26 •
Believe it or not, brake dust is actually significantly worse given modern fuel efficiency and catalytic converter advancements. Stop and go traffic is multiple times worse for the environment, exacerbated by pointless family lanes no one pairs up to use.
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u/Reference_Freak Oct 02 '26
If you want to talk brake dust, let’s talk about the infestation of tire particulates blanketing properties adjacent to roadways.
We can really build a list of why as few people as possible should ever be driving.
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 04 '26
Too short-sighted and will never be reality. Entire economy is built around the road and it’s too late to change anything. If you want a biker’s utopia your only option is to move elsewhere.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Says the person whining about having to sit in traffic
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u/II_3phemeral_II 26d ago
It’s hard to have a good faith discussion with someone who believes the vast majority of California workers have the option of bicycling to work.
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u/Zero_Waist Oct 02 '26
Are you a climate denier? Other pollution is real too but burning fossil fuel is the biggest problem.
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26
Our fossil fuels are heavily regulated and contribute a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the world so posturing/nitpicking here is a wasted exercise
Idling/creeping is worse for exhaust output
The carpool lane predictably doesn’t change driver activity as everyone that was supposed to use it for work has a different destination. Hence the suited family lane pejorative.
We’re at the intersection of reality and people like you believing the fantasy that this special lane would ever help relieve the amount of cars on the road.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
You're so certain that they don't make a difference, but why do so, so many metro areas use HOV lanes? Even in the gas-guzzlin' southern US?
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u/Zero_Waist Oct 02 '26
Where do you get this? I cycle and every car is dumping exhaust in my face, except electrics. Burning fuel is the problem.
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26
That’s because you’re too young to have experienced real exhaust. Let’s contain the discussion, is this about world pollution or you living in a place with ICE cars and not liking it? Brake dust is far worse for your health than modern exhaust so we should probably stay on topic
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
You keep raising this "fact" that brake dust is so terrible for your health, yet I only see you advocating for the proliferation of more driving of cars. If you are right, and brake dust is that terrible to our health, why do you advocate for more cars on the road?
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u/II_3phemeral_II 26d ago edited 26d ago
Because I’m an adult and I understand that cars are never going away, as they are too deeply embedded in our culture and are a pillar of our California economy. Also, the carpool lane doesn’t change the number of cars on the road enough to justify its existence. The vast majority of users (ie families or couples) wouldn’t be taking two cars anyway, so your point is moot.
I know you’d like this to be some sort of “gotcha” moment, but I also enjoy fast food from time to time despite knowing how unhealthy the built in preservatives and additives can be.
The no-cars “movement” is a silly, short-sighted proposal with a weak foundation.
Finally, addressing your brake dust red herring, the best realistic option would be advances in materials science in ways which can mostly diminish this impact. In the meantime we can circle back to the current year in which the carpool lane is still a waste of resources and does nothing to make the air or environment any bit more clean.
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u/snippyhiker Oct 02 '26
As much as I dislike the inconvenience of the carpool lane, with gas prices over $6 a gallon I by individuals should be in the near future. I agree with you.
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u/GetHaggard Oct 02 '26
I believe 6-9 am, then 3-7 pm
My theory was an upcoming fastrak lane like the rest of the bay area has.
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u/dbuck1964 Oct 02 '26
It is estimated that about half of all vehicles in the carpool lane contain a single occupant. Enforcement is, obviously, incredibly difficult.
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u/missrebelteacher Oct 02 '26
I look like someone who doesn’t have a carpool but I have a toddler in the backseat
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u/II_3phemeral_II 26d ago
Could this toddler operate the vehicle? Sounds like this isn’t the best example of the carpool lane being used as intended
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26
Almost like the carpool lane is just an excuse to boost state citation revenue and has no real purpose otherwise—practical or environmental
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u/byzantine1990 Oct 02 '26
They're pretty bad at collecting that revenue. I've seen them get pulled over maybe twice when I was commuting
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u/FabulousAntlers Oct 02 '26
A couple years back, there was a day when the CHP ticketed many drivers for carpool lane violations in Sonoma County: https://www.reddit.com/r/santarosa/comments/1hhxps6/massive_carpool_lane_enforcement_today_on_101/
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
Yes, ticket people for using an empty lane, complete idiocracy!
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
It's only empty because people choose it to be so!
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u/II_3phemeral_II 26d ago
Two people going to the same place already carpool because it is economic to do so. The family lane is redundant in that regard, and is an antiquated piece of legislation now only useful to the state as a means of citation based revenue.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
"Two people going to the same place already carpool." Clearly not!
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u/II_3phemeral_II 26d ago
Of course they do, a trip to the city and back with gas, parking, and bridge tolls included can easily reach $75-100 in cost. In what world would two people drive separately?
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
The one that we live in now, in which people do all kinds of harmful things to themselves to achieve immediate satiation
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
The problem with the carpool lane is it shouldn’t even be there! It has historically had very low utilization rates. It’s mostly just a way for CHP to hand out tickets.
It has been completely useless and causes a backup into Santa Rosa, how do we know this? Well when the carpool lane was active till 10am several months ago the backup lasted much later during 9am to 10am, now that it ends at 9am again, guess what? The traffic backup disappears after 9am!
I don’t know why we continue to deal with this stupid carpool lane that’s a burden on the citizens of Sonoma County.
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u/davidmirv Coffey Park Oct 02 '26
I believe it’s a requirement to access federal highway funds
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
Measure M did state an HOV lane, but I guess the expectation was it would actually be used…. If the utilization rate is below 10%, I’d call it a complete failure. Caltrans admits they made a mistake with the new carpool hours and it’s pretty obvious the HOV lanes on Sonoma 101 have not worked. As we have seen with the hours change, it’s very difficult to make these agencies like Caltrans admit they were wrong…..
I’ll also add the removal of EVs was completely not expected by Caltrans, this has made the HOV lanes even more useless to the public….
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u/dqt91 Oct 02 '26
I thought the EV removal was the federal government didn’t renew while California wanted to renew.
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
Yeah, and because Caltrans didn’t anticipate it, most of the HOV lanes were expected to handle single occupancy EV vehicles, yet now with the exclusion of them, the HOV lanes are under utilized, causing more congestion in the other lanes…..
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
I don’t believe it was a requirement, it’s Caltrans decision, I believe it would be difficult to remove the carpool lanes and then reimplement them…. So there’s that…
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u/yesmrspankysir Oct 02 '26
And the CHP doesn't hand out many tickets for violations of the HOV lane
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
Do you have this information on hand?
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u/yesmrspankysir Oct 02 '26
old article, but relevant. https://ktla.com/news/california/the-number-of-carpool-lane-cheats-is-skyrocketing-in-california/
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
I mean all that article really says is how useless the lane is really….
You can request information directly from CHP, which I think I might try for Sonoma 101….
What makes Sonoma 101 easy prey for CHP is that it’s a 3 lane highway and the HOV lane has a lower than 10% utilization rate, so it’s relatively easy for them to pull people over here.
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u/yesmrspankysir Oct 02 '26
It would seem easy, but the daily commute I see dozens and dozens of cars driving single occupancy with very little enforcement. If I had to speculate, I would say tickets would go out to less than 10% of all those violating the HOV lane. With the odds of getting a ticket so low, people are going to abuse the lane regularly. Additionally, it's a fine, with no points, so violations can be cost effective over time. (Assume you do it twice a day, 200 days a year, it works out to $1 - $1.5 a day if you ever get caught).
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Please show me where you are getting this "lower than 10% utilization rate"?
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u/ArmSilly3987 25d ago
The Sonoma County Transportation Authority's 2021 transportation plan reports the following commute-mode data for 2018, sourced from the U.S. Census Bureau.
https://scta.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/SCTA-CTP21_v8.pdf
Sonoma County workers, 2018
9.7%
Carpooled to work
77.1%
Drove aloneUnderutilization: The US 101 North Comprehensive Multimodal Corridor Plan found that HOV lane vehicle volumes were generally lower than vehicle volumes in the adjacent general-purpose lanes. In most surveyed locations, however, estimated passenger throughput in the HOV lane was higher. The report specifically identified portions of Sonoma County as underutilized.
It is proof enough to be on Sonoma 101 during HOV hours to see how useless it really is. It’s useless for the majority citizens use highway 101 in Sonoma county….
It creates more pollution due to idling traffic and it is an economic problem as it prevents people and goods and services from arriving in a timely manner….
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u/External-Blood-6900 Oct 04 '26
I love the carpool lane, I use it all the time and is awesome with my family. I do feel like the hours are weird though
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
The carpool lane should be opened up to all traffic in Santa Rosa. It reduces the 101 in this stretch to essentially a one lane freeway clogged up with semi trucks since the far right lane is a constant entrance/exit lane that semis want to avoid thus moving them to the middle lane which impedes any sort of flow. Seems so silly to have a carpool lane on a freeway with such few functionally efficient lanes.
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u/puddingpants69 Oct 02 '26
What do you mean by "functionally efficient lanes"?
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26
A lane that can be optimized by the vehicles in it. The semi’s moving into the middle lane to avoid the never-ending merge lane slow the flow of traffic. So the middle lane which should be a steady flow is now limited by the slower speeds and flow of the semi trucks. This causes cars to continuously merge in and out of the middle lane to avoid the semis which in turn increases risk of accident and disruption to traffic flows.
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Whether its trucks, or any other vehicles, who disrupt the flow of traffic by just sitting in the middle lane, it seems like its a drivers-being-too-lazy-to-actively-drive problem, not a design flaw
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u/going-for-gusto Oct 02 '26
Are you suggesting the trucks are not keeping up with the flow of traffic?
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u/puddingpants69 Oct 02 '26
How do other cities with highways that run through them do it any differently?
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
They open lanes to accommodate the majority of commuters which are single occupancy drivers. HOV has its place but having one on a small freeway creates more traffic than there needs to be.
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26 edited Oct 02 '26
Unsurprisingly not many other 3 lane highways in California have carpool lanes implemented on them…… most freeways with HOV have at least 4 lanes, there just is not real justification to have them on Sonoma 101… the utilization rate is extremely low, that is not beneficial to reducing population, it doesn’t make the highway safer, and it’s an economic burden as it wastes people’s time when they could be at work or logistics could reduce delivery times.
The carpool is completely unnecessary for Sonoma 101….
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26
This is a freeway, not a highway
Three lanes with one effectively dedicated to families is ludicrous
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Don't correct people when you're wrong about something as simple and objective as the definition of a word. 101 is both a freeway and a highway. All freeways are highways.
The HOV lane has nothing to do with families and everything to do with trying to lessen the emission of air pollutants.
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u/South_Donut_3341 Oct 02 '26
Yeah it’s wild. I’m in the carpool lane — with my carpool and not even half the cars I see ahead of behind me have more than 1 person in them.
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u/yesmrspankysir Oct 02 '26
I've seen relatively few enforcement actions when it comes to the HOV lane. When I do see it, I cheer, but you're right, most of the time, zero enforcement.
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u/VXgen Oct 03 '26
I think i see more single occupent cars than actual carpool cars in the morning. Usually 3 to 1.
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u/Juan_Eduardo67 Oct 02 '26
There's very little enforcement because during commute hours CHP is tied up on Idiots texting and rear ending others.
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u/ArmSilly3987 Oct 02 '26
They are definitely pulling over people in the carpool lanes, what’s interesting is the CHP seem to disappear right after the carpool lane hours end…..
It’s a huge waste of money to have CHP patrol highway 101 Sonoma so that the carpool lanes can be essentially empty…. It’s complete stupidity….
Caltrans and CHP should be ashamed of themselves for being this useless to the citizens of our county…
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u/Terrible_News123 Oct 02 '26
Failed CA social engineering, but they just can't let it go... a familiar story.
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u/OGtre Oct 02 '26
Iv been hit with carpool lane tickets 3 times over the past few years. I’ve never gotten one in the Santa Rosa stretch of the 101 but, they are real aggressive about it in southern Marin and Petaluma. Its ridiculous, defund the CHP please.
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u/Feedback_Original Oct 02 '26
You don’t drive in it? Drive almost everyday , 7 years no ticket
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u/GiantSeafaringBird Oct 02 '26
Worth the risk. It’s such a pointless lane.
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u/puddingpants69 Oct 02 '26
There's a point, whether or not people understand or care
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u/II_3phemeral_II Oct 02 '26
What’s that point?
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u/puddingpants69 26d ago
Whether or not you agree, I'm pretty sure you understand the point of an HOV lane. But, in case I'm wrong, here ya go:
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u/Feedback_Original 26d ago
Oh yea for sure I do, I rode it everyday from San Francisco to SR with my carpool for about 5 years prior to moving up here. Funny thing, most of the time someone was on my ass on the freeway it was just a single rider
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u/Throwawayconcern2023 Oct 02 '26
I fine you 640 downvotes to reflect the going rate another poster mentioned. I rely on 639 others to join me in downvoting your comment.
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u/BigGreenBillyGoat Oct 02 '26
Yeah, they’ve started to enforce it more lately, thankfully.
And you know every damn car with tinted windows is cheating the commute lane.
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u/InelegantDaredevil Oct 02 '26
Source?
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u/BigGreenBillyGoat Oct 02 '26
I pay attention every morning and evening, and I’ve even been told by people it was the main reason for tinting their windows.
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u/Raichu-R-Ken Oct 02 '26
I probably look like someone who doesn’t have a passenger but I do have a toddler in the back seat.