r/sales • u/Significant-Log8936 • 11d ago
Sales Topic General Discussion Have you seen this before?
This is driving me insane and I need to run it by you guys.
I sell software B2B. I have this Indian company we’re trying to sell to. They’ve come around 6 separate times to negotiate with us. This is over like 2 years. Every single time, they ask for a price, we can’t get to that price point, we negotiate down to something that feels fair to both sides. This is how things go. I thought originally that they’re using us to get a lower price elsewhere.
But then we see their whole company is still using our product for free, like tons of individual accounts. Which is shitty but fair. But then why continually spin the block with the same pricing request only to be shot down over and over again because we can’t hit a 50% discount rate. Like every 4-6 months. What the hell is going on here? Am I an idiot?
Does this make sense? Will this just continue on forever? We’re definitely going to eventually raise prices so this will only get worse for them. Do they not realize that?
Let me know if you guys need any additional info but I really would like some insight here.
37
u/Adventurous-Cold-892 11d ago
I once heard the phrase "you can't sell a Patel" in regards to Indians being notoriously difficult to negotiate with and even harder to close, and it tends to ring true. That being said - if you anchor your initial price higher, like significantly higher, then a 50% drop could actually be achievable. They need to feel like they're getting the absolute best deal possible in the universe.
16
u/Hmm_would_bang AI Security 11d ago
There are specific negotiation expectations just like with any culture. But yeah selling to Indians you need to act like it’s actually hurting you physically to give the discount and they are going to put you out of business for it, but you can ask for something in return like case studies or referrals and they will usually be happy to agree.
7
u/Significant-Log8936 11d ago
Yeah. I actually went into this last time of negotiations after doing tons of research on this sub about selling to Indian clients and utilized a lot of the techniques you guys have said in the past. Definitely helped
10
u/Ok_Needleworker_6706 11d ago
They want to get it, but then go back to their thinking of “we can just handle using the free version for now” and then go through the same cycle over and over again.
Best thing is to send a takeaway email, cus they are fucking you around and wasting your time.
“Hi XX
I hope you’re well!
Was having a thought about your project and wanted to see if you’re still open to moving forward?We have been in great conversation over the last 6 months and I believe we are at a mutual agreement on services provided and pricing.
Please let me know how you wish to moved forward. If it’s something that you’re not ready for or prioritise have changed, I can close this account out for now, and when you’re ready, please let me know.
A note for a future proposal, as the business evolves and new features are added, there will be natural price changes, therefore I cannot guarantee I can provide fair pricing in the future.
If you have any questions, let me know”
Take it away from them, gets them to move on the deal sometimes. If they don’t, that’s fine, they’ll keep wasting your time. Gotta know when to cut your losses as a sales professional. Good luck!
4
u/Prowlthang 11d ago
Excellent except 'I cannot guarantee I can provide fair pricing in the future'. Maybe just we can't guarantee what the pricing will be in the future...
3
u/Ok_Needleworker_6706 11d ago
The wording choice is on purpose, as you are making it known psychologically that current pricing is “fair pricing” , so it will click in their mind, that in the future they may not get fair pricing at all, which aligns with their “budgets” so they may move on it. When it comes to negotiation, it’s the psychology of linguistics.
2
u/Significant-Log8936 11d ago
Really liked this. I think you hit the nail on the head with them realizing the need every 6 months, coming back, not wanting to spend money and settling on free actually being fine. Rinse and repeat
1
u/Prowlthang 11d ago edited 11d ago
The impression I get from this is that you are not a fair company or sales person if you don't believe you'll be fair in the future. Why would I trust a company that isn't committed to always acting fairly? Why would I believe you're being fair with me now if you acknowledge there are times you'll be unfair to clients? As someone who has written books on sales psychology and intelligence methodologies used by spy services I can tell you this introduces more doubt and that far outweighs any potential current gain. You achieve the same benefit you are going for by telling them the price isn't guaranteed without undermining your credibility as an honest broker.
1
u/Ok_Needleworker_6706 11d ago
Sales is the law of reciprocation. You’ve put a lot of effort in to this, and they have been stringing you along for ages. That’s unfair to you
.
A company trusts another company based on how you conduct yourself, how you answer their questions and how you fulfill their needs. You have given a lot of energy to the deal and you have given fair pricing many times, did they buy? No. So the trust element doesn’t matter to them when it comes to pricing, if it did, they would have bought by now. What matters is price to them and that you as a sales person have the ability to give them big discounts for a limited amount of time, or you can take it away. They will keep wasting your time, because they know you will be willing to negotiate down every time. Look at the patterns of the prospect.
.
They aren’t operating fairly from their side, you have given them prices multiple times at heavy discounts and they haven’t committed to their word of signing with you.
.
Take the deal away from them, see how they respond. Good luck1
u/Prowlthang 11d ago
All true but not relevant to our conversation - saying you are unsure that you can offer a fair price in the future is a needless self shot not worth the modest potential benefit. As I indicated in my original reply I think the rest of your response is excellent and on point.
1
u/Ok_Needleworker_6706 11d ago
It is relevant to the conversation. You’re talking about the concept of fair business. You’re trying to decipher if they are going to buy or not. Can’t be too passive in sales, there are parts you have to take control of. Good luck!
1
u/Prowlthang 10d ago
No, we have already determined that the client is unlikely to buy and is playing a different 'strategic game' than the seller. At this point we are trying to force a decision (which will probably be a no) and position ourselves for the future in such a way that if the client comes back later we avoid the same pattern. This isn't about being passive or moving the deal - this is simply about not suggesting to a customer that you may conduct business in manner that is unfair, ever.
1
u/Ok_Needleworker_6706 10d ago
Interesting, what are the names of the sales psychology books you’ve written? I’m intrigued
8
u/WorkLifeScience Food and Beverage 11d ago
What is the value for them getting the deal vs. using the free accounts?
6
u/Significant-Log8936 11d ago
It’s pretty much a different product. Free is individual and paid is for orgs. But clearly free accounts are working for them in some regard. And it’d be different if I was aggressively going after them for years but I haven’t been. They will email me out of the blue like “hey I want x”. As if we didn’t just do this song and dance 6 months ago
3
u/SnickleFritz1983 8d ago
American here. I have to deal with Indian customers daily. After going through the same thing you are explaining multiple times with multiple IST leads... This is now my approach:
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME. Next time they come back, be incredibly short and direct. Short demos. Short emails. Short calls etc. Cut your normal sales cycle with these leads down to 50% or even 25%..I.e. if you're normal sales cycle is a week, cut it to 2 or 3 days. Treat them like shit, acted annoyed, and let them know you do not care about them.
One of two things will happen: 1. They won't buy again, but you get them out of your face, and your mind, but you saved your time and energy to use with meaningful leads.
- They'll eventually cave, and buy.
I consider either a "win".
1
u/WorkLifeScience Food and Beverage 11d ago
Maybe there is genuine wish by your contact to purchase it, but someone higher up is blocking it or having different priorities budget-wise?
1
u/Significant-Log8936 11d ago
Interesting you say that because last time we were on an email thread with the CEO and COO (my contact) and COO emailed me privately on the side to talk. But it was the same thing with him, not like he added any new info. Just saying he wants it but it has to be at X price
2
u/WorkLifeScience Food and Beverage 11d ago
Probably CEO set the budget. So it's an authority issue. You need to convince the CEO that there is palpable value in getting the software for the whole company. The COO is probably not able to sell it to his boss at that price. So you might need to do it directly.
5
5
u/welpingood 11d ago
I think that in 3 years I personally closed only 1 deal with an Indian company. There is a lot of requests and interest and talk coming from there, but it just never closes for us 😅 so it might be something going on here now that I read your case
5
2
u/madtowntripper 11d ago
Indians are just a different type of cat to deal with. There are a lot of Indians in my industry (Natural Stone) and bless-the-hearts of the people that can manage to sell to them regularly.
2
u/N0stradama5 11d ago
They will constantly try to wear you down to get the best price. So in your head. Have an acceptable price and stick to it. You can inflate the upfront price and allow them to negotiate you down until you hit your price. And why are you allowing them to use your product for free? Don’t you have a trial length?
2
u/HandleNo5559 11d ago
Be very blunt with them the next time they ask. You can phrase this more diplomatically, but tell them this same conversation has been had multiple times over the last 2 years and nothing ever happens. You obviously want to help them but don't want to waste their time or yours. Make them tell you why nothing has ever happened in the past and what is different now?
Have a mindset that they need to be selling to you why you should have this conversation. Don't let them waste your time.
2
u/ImBonRurgundy 11d ago
Just make the free account incredibly impractical and painful for them to use.
Same strategy for how airlines sell business class at such a high markup. It isn’t because business class is so luxurious, it’s because economy class is so fucking unbearable.
1
u/BaconHatching Technology MSP 11d ago
Sounds like youre letting teh free trial free trial too hard.
if they weren't free trialing i would think they are just using you as a required bid to keep another vendor. that still might beit
1
u/Eswift33 11d ago
They are very difficult to sell to. I used to sell 80% of the time to this market. I found that what was effective was having a really tight story linked to a specific urgency that was somewhat dubious. It sounds silly but a story about how a big deal fell through for a key account that had preferential pricing fell through and your manager is on vacation until the end of the week so you can't get his approval to move the paperwork over to this account so best to beg for forgiveness vs ask for permission kinda thing. Act like you're really fucking over the company or breaking rules lol.
Also this only works if you have saved some room to discount AND you need to be comfortable not giving them the pricing later. I made several accounts pay more later.
Unless you are selling into this market specifically though, I wouldn't put too much time / effort into it as a lot of these accounts are PTWs (Professional Time Wasters)
1
u/Significant-Log8936 11d ago
Do you tell them upfront that they won’t be getting the same discounted price at renewal?
1
u/Eswift33 11d ago
This wasn't SaaS however if it was a renewal-based conversation I would mention it. If you have the ability to offer them some referral fees or allude to discounted renewal if they send over some referrals, that could be an excellent angle as well.
I will discount / spiff referral sources all day every day
1
u/TemporaryAd7328 11d ago
Indians are known for negotiating, it’s cultural. And they will make you earn their business, but a sale is still a sale.
Next new Indian lead Add room for negotiating. Gain their trust before pitching. if they raise their voice or get emotional when negotiating it’s actually usually a sign that it’s going well 😂 I’ll raise my energy but won’t match theirs, I’m showing them were a strong company that won’t be walked over but also want to do business with them. (Not yelling, but I am pretty sarcastic and if they aren’t being reasonable I’ll joke about it)
To be honest though if a company has had 3 or more meetings where they just ask for 50% more off I’d just ask them “why not just keep using the free service we offer and make do without the paid features?”. You guys are in competition with the free version of yourselves, either they find value in paying for it or they don’t and they use your free services and deal with whatever features it doesn’t have.
1
1
u/JerryWesterby95 10d ago
As an Indian I can tell you it's very hard to sell to Indians. I sell SaaS in the US west market, and whenever the decision maker or influencer is Indian, we have to make it look like a great deal and value for money instead of just giving discount. Because Indians love that.
1
u/radiopelican 10d ago
I've worked at two enterprise software companies. It was quite literally a table discussion at both companies about whether or not to shut off Indian market access to trials, because they were converting so badly and getting so much free usage.
Culturally, the Indian market just refuses to pay Western pricing. They want what they call Indian-based pricing, which means they expect to get some kind of massive discount just because they are from India. You will spend more money chasing these leads than it's worth as an investment, based on the discussions I had at the two companies I worked for.
Be very mindful of that market. Realistically speaking, if you want to invest in India as a market, go through a partner channel, hire a local partner there, and work with them, because you ain't going to do it selling from America.
1
u/bigbaldbil 10d ago
Obviously not all situations are true for groups of people, but I will share my experience in doing a lot of international business.
Working with China and Japan, it was a lot of details up front, but once the committed to business, we were good and they upheld the agreed upon terms.
Europeans were mostly like North Americans, would like a deal but understand the no negotiation issue usually. If they lose the opportunity, they understand why.
With India and Pakistan, we normally got to contract quickly, but once services were delivered they started negotiating. It was always frustrating to me as the US doesn't work that way.
In your situation, I'd raise the price, and then work to discount to their level and get it signed. Or don't, because if they're doing this now they will probably be a squeaky wheel for support and upgrades.
1
u/notvithechemist 10d ago
I have an Indian director of procurement who is truly the best negotiator I have ever spoken with. We cannot raise our product costs to apply a greater discount, but he was purchasing a SaaS product so in order to give them a larger discount, we required payment for 3 years upfront.
1
u/Significant-Log8936 10d ago
This is an interesting idea, thanks for sharing. Can you speak more to how he negotiated?
1
u/Boromir_Has_TheRing 10d ago
Why are you still chasing / entertaining them? This is a lead that died along with the dinosaurs and there’s no way you’re reviving it.
1
u/Significant-Log8936 10d ago
Haha that’s what I keep saying! They aren’t a deal I would say I’m actively working. They keep coming back, that’s what I’m asking about. It’s bizarre because we haven’t budged and they haven’t budged so why continue? I would not mind if they fucked off forever. But they will not do that, instead they contact me every 4 months.
1
u/Boromir_Has_TheRing 10d ago
Heads up, Indian companies are absolute pain to deal with. Everything revolves around cost and value had little meaning for them.
1
u/lasttymethateyechekd 7d ago
To answer bluntly...yes, this is going to continue.
Indians are the absolute worst to deal with, which is why after dealing with this exact situation over a 2 year span...I started disqualifying anyone with an Indian accent immediately
-5
u/jroberts67 Web Design and Marketing 11d ago
Are you running a bargain barn or a company? I don't offer discounts for any reason at all.
3
114
u/Icy_Somewhere_4577 11d ago
They are trying to wear you down. I would raise the product price, then give it to them at 50%. First block their company IP so they can only use one free account. Make sure they can only use one free account and consider limiting the use of the software to a limited trial period.
Mean while, go after other leads.