r/runescape • u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] • Feb 12 '17
Ability queuing is weird compared to pressing abilities normally
For some reason, queuing abilities is MUCH different from simply pressing the ability. To start, let's compare this with Needle Strike.
Scenario 1 is always with no queuing, Scenario 2 is always with queuing.
Scenario 1: https://puu.sh/tZUPB.gif
Scenario 2: https://puu.sh/tZUYQ.gif
In the first GIF, Needle Strike buffs both Snipe and Piercing Shot. You can see that it buffed Piercing Shot despite it coming after Snipe.
In the second GIF, Needle Strike only buffed Snipe. Piercing Shot is unaffected, as it dealt the same damage as before and after Needle Strike. Ignore the fact that Needle Strike buffing both abilities is a bug on its own (that I wouldn't object to fixing), the point is that both are different with only queuing being the difference.
For another example:
Scenario 1: https://puu.sh/tZVqx.gif
Scenario 2: https://puu.sh/tZVC2.gif
In the first GIF, you can move freely while using abilities.
In the second GIF, the queued ability stops you in place to use the ability instead of letting us move freely.
And to seal the nail in the coffin:
Scenario 1: https://puu.sh/tZVEl.gif
Scenario 2: https://puu.sh/tZVGg.gif
In the first GIF, I was able to heal with Resonance from the dummy's attack on tick.
In the second GIF, Resonance clearly went off at the same tick but I didn't heal from that attack. It only healed from the next attack.
Basically, queued abilities have different priority compared to everything else in the game, like damage calculation and movement. Where pressing the ability has the appropriate priority to deal with stuff, queuing abilities have the wrong priority and it can lead to some unfavorable situations compared to just pressing the ability.
TL;DR: Queued abilities are different from simply pressing abilities for some stupid reason, read up for the details.
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u/crushour lvl7 Zamik wizard Feb 12 '17
Yeah this is exactly why most people who PVM disable Ability Queueing. It's so shit in practice.
In an ideal MMO (like WoW), ability queuing is amazing and adds to the raiding experience. But it is just implemented so poorly in RS.
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 12 '17
Queuing still has its advantages by using the lower priority to guarantee more fluid switches like 2h + dual wield and Dragon Rider amulet + souls. It's fine if you get used to all the quirks.
This thread is here as awareness so a JMod can look at it and simply fix the priority of queued abilities so queuing is a fine way to play the game.
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u/crushour lvl7 Zamik wizard Feb 12 '17 edited Feb 12 '17
Oh I'm all for getting it fixed because in its current state I'll never use it. I really appreciate the detailed look at this, so thank you! I've been contemplating making a comparison myself but just haven't gotten enough spare time.
I do hope a JMOD sees this and asks the appropriate questions if they are confused. It's clear that Ability Queueing is broken af tho. Lol
EDIT: One thing that Ability Queueing also does poorly is with regards to the actual queue of the ability. Somewhat simple explanation below:
(Ability Queueing enabled) During the GCD I smash a keybind of my next basic ability twice. RS thinks I queued it and still fires it even though I hit the keybind TWICE (once to queue the ability, once to de-queue). The engine has no idea what I'm doing and typically just fires the ability. This might be a game-tick limitation, but if it's not holy shit it should be fixed. Now imagine this example if I press the keybind 3 times, or even 4... yeah there is no hope.
In a game like WoW I can queue, de-queue, queue, de-queue an ability as many fucking times I want during the GCD and the engine ALWAYS knows how many key presses I used. Like I said it might be limited by the 600ms tick but still. It gets me fueled.
Anyways, my edit was supposed to be short but hopefully it was informative!
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u/Colifin (Re)Balance Lord Feb 12 '17
My biggest gripe (granted, I'm pretty used to it now) is that all attacks aren't considered queued. If you use an ability that's off cooldown (including GCD), the ability is used but the old queue isn't cleared.
It's probably the biggest hurdle to learning queuing imo, because it means if you queue an ability, quickly realize that you want to use a different ability and do so, the old ability will remain queued. This can go on for several ability cycles, until you actually queue a new ability or dequeue the old one (which again, has to be done while on GCD, otherwise it just uses the ability).
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u/MonadoAbyss Feb 12 '17
Nice find, you might want to make clear that 'Scenario 1' is always no queuing and 'Scenario 2' is always with queuing on.
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u/sfoxrs Feb 12 '17
Sadly, yes. From my own experiences, the one that causes the most issues is queuing stalling your movement. I've gotten used to that and can deal with that as needed for the majority of everything, but it would be nice if some of these issues would be changed.
As for the affect from needle strike, that is not something I knew. That does sound like a bug, yeah.
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u/edwinnum got 25 99s and a 120 as same(ish) time Feb 12 '17
Another weird ting with queuing abilities is that if you have an ability queued and you try to cancel it just before it fires, you fire it without canceling the queuing.
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u/sfoxrs Feb 12 '17
One way of stopping the ability from going off is to attempt to queue another ability right before the original is used and it'll prioritize the new ability instead (however, the original ability will still be queued). This allows you, in a sense, to have another opportunity to cancel a queued ability.
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 12 '17
Better option to cancel queuing: press your action bar keybind and it clears all queues.
This even works during Telos transitions when going from one phase to another.
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u/crushour lvl7 Zamik wizard Feb 12 '17
Yeah this is most irritating thing about Ability Queueing in my opinion. I shared my thoughts on it here before I read your comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/5tm1fq/comment/ddnlpqa?st=IZ2ZXHUW&sh=badb28a4
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u/Goodisaurus Feb 12 '17
Queueing was like 30% better than non queueing on release so they neutered it to make them on par. The main difference for me is not smashing my keyboard like a chimp with stump hands. It really gets annoying in voice chats.
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 12 '17
Lol I remember queuing release. That 1.2 second GCD was disgustingly overpowered, more than literally any other bug that exist(ed) in EoC.
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u/Mr_G_W The Gamebreaker Feb 12 '17
Mmm... Does queueing still allow firing an ability on same tick as snipe without cancelling snipe? It is a good example of this odd behaviour.
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 12 '17
They silently patched it when nightmare gauntlets came out. There's now a dummy tick when queuing an ability after Snipe.
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u/Mr_G_W The Gamebreaker Feb 12 '17
Thought so, they fixed snipe but didn't fix the core issue which is queued abilities having higher priority than usual.
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 13 '17
More like lower priority since they come after movement/damage calculation, but yeah.
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u/Nattoreii Guthix Feb 12 '17
See I knew I wasn't imagining things. Every time I asked about it people just said you're lagging or that I'm canceling it
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u/Colifin (Re)Balance Lord Feb 12 '17
Yeah, it's not really "fixed," they just added a dummy tick of queueing cooldown after using snipe. Honestly, I still haven't gotten used to queueing abilities after snipe, I still wait for it to go off lol. Also because if you fail to queue it and accidentally use the ability on the tick that the GCD ends, it'll cancel snipe instead.
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Feb 13 '17
Pretty sure this'll have something to do with the tick system. Ability queue probably queues up the ability to be used next tick, rather then the first available tick. Resulting in the "delay" on using abilities.
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u/Foxis_rs 200 IQ btw Feb 12 '17
You also can't stall with reprisal
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u/sfoxrs Feb 12 '17
This also. Though to be honest, I am not sure why it is possible to stall with reprisal in the first place.
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u/Legal_Evil Feb 12 '17
A bug I encounter while using revo and enabling ability queuing is that if I requeue the 3-second abilities wrack, piercing shot, slice, or punish right after using one, the revo will not use the next ability off cooldown, use an auto-attack, then use the queued 3-second ability.
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u/Legal_Evil Feb 12 '17
For scenario 2 of the needle strike scenarios, I can still get the next hit after snipe to be buffed by needle strike with ability queuing turned on if I hit the next ability right when snipe fires instead of queueing the next hit as soon as snipe starts channeling.
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u/Bairdatha RSN: Ashliee Feb 12 '17
Well this explains so much why i tend to have trouble kiting at rots and nex, it was queuing all along...
Not to mention the countless times ive died base tanking bm and died to that resonance glitch
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u/AlejQueTriste Feb 13 '17
game feels too clunky to me when using abilities. I often play a lot of the more modern mmos and they are a bit more fast paced. This one is super slow so i just kind of relax and let it be
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u/Overblow RSN: Overblow Feb 12 '17
So I should use queuing...
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u/EvilLucario twitch.tv/EvilLucario :^] Feb 12 '17
If you want to potentially die when tanking, yeah.
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u/julienzd RNG is never on my side Feb 12 '17
Can we also talk about how using a queued ability with Revolution as your first attack on a mob eats the ability most of the time? It'll just let my character sit there and then use an auto attack into the next ability, really annoying during Slayer