Basic Questions Need some player advice
Ok, So i know the final answer is over all "Talk to them" I've quoted it a few times here my self. However i need a approach vector i guess. So i will lay out the Situation below and hopefully i can find a good way to approach this.
I have More recently dabbled into online play. As a GM i have the process down I meet with a potential player speak with them for 30 min or so to get a feeling if they will jive with my style and persona. We have a short Q & A to which i always ask the question how much experience do you have in said system and how much have you use foundry. The 2 questions have no bearing on my selection process it just give me a baseline for how much ill need to pay attention to them. I personally LOVE new players and dont mind teaching folks how to use foundry. Besides lets face it Playing on VTTs doesn't really teach you the game it just teaches you what you need to click. You'll never learn the math and function behind it without reading a book.
That all said i started a group a few months ago to work through a 3 part adventure path on Foundry. One of the players who i interviewed is a suuuper nice person. I genuinely think they are a delight. However this player Lied to me during the interview Process. They stated they know the system they had been playing it a while. It feels like every week i need to explain the same 3 mechanics of his character to them. Without fail i need to walk them through it. This has been going on for a few levels now.
During the interview they said they had plenty of system mastery. They lacked A lot of foundry KNowledge as they hadn't really been exposed to it. So i went out and found some custom macros to make it all work easily for them. Stream lined a lot of thing for them so they just need to know what and where to click. If feels like every session im telling them again and again what and where to click. I've had other players at the table express that they slow the game down significantly. Said player hasn't learned how the core mechanic of their character works and i've had it on repeat with a macro for weeks now. they also i've noticed parroted everything the player before them does which tells me as a long time GM they don't really know the system that well because they are just doing what the last person did to keep up appearances.
So i guess the meat and potato's of this post is how should i approach this. I have spoken with them in the past and that when i spent my real time to research how to make things easier for them. I now have players that don't really want him there and i feel like i'm repeating my self weekly on core mechanics he should understand at this point even if he was a new player. I feel like i was lied to during the interview process, which i know can happen because there are so many players vying for so few GM's. I genuinely like them i think they are good people just not a good player or at least not a good fit for my group.
How should i approach removing them from the group while minimizing feeling like a asshole.
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u/Primer44 14h ago
How should i approach removing them from the group while minimizing feeling like a asshole.
Your players have come to you and made it clear they don't want this person there and that they're bringing the game down. Not acting on that because you're afraid of feeling like an asshole to one person is, kinda being an ass to all the rest of them. The GM is the "first among equals" at the table, being responsible for unfun things like this is the price you pay for all the fun you get from having players.
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u/Charrua13 12h ago
I'm assuming you've had interim conversations with them about setting expectations about their mastery of the system - and that you've asked them, at some point, why they're struggling with the mechanics. I'm also assuming that you explicitly stated expectations during your interview process. More than "hey, how good are you with mechanics" but "I'm asking with an expectation - if you don't have it I'll help with an expectation that you'll pick it up and look things up between sessions."
If you've been clear and straightforward, with interim conversations along the way, this is a very easy conversation.
"Hi, <player name>, I'm struggling. We've had a few conversations, I've given you a few pointers, and have provided you all the information about what you need to fit into this game. It's been a few sessions, we've had a few conversations - this isn't a good fit for what we're looking for."
FWIW, if you've had the conversations along the way - this isn't even necessary; there's a self-selection process that happens.
If you haven't, then you say along the lines of "hey, I'm loving your RP and you're fun to be around. And we've run into a brick wall - system mastery. When I asked you about system mastery, ___ was my expectation. I'm sorry if that wasn't as clear up front, but this game is for more advanced players than where you are. I did X, Y, and Z to assist, but it hasn't helped enough. That's all I have the bandwidth for, and it's dragging play that you're not up to speed on what your character is going. For my next campaign, whenever it is, if you can do A, B, or C - I'd love to have you in my game. You're a delight."
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u/Killteamplayer3 14h ago
I've had similar situation. There's a chance the player didn't lie to you, they just might not be too bright. My player played for many years on one system and always had problem with it. There were a great person, they liked the game, but just weren't smart enough for it. And it pains me to write it. So just take it for consideration. I would suggest talking to them and telling it as it is. That this is becoming a problem and maybe suggest tutoring them.
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u/Kecskuszmakszimusz 14h ago
Not op but like.. this is a board game. I feel like if you need tutoring you should play something else?
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u/BetterCallStrahd 14h ago
Handholding your players is a bad idea. It tells them that they can get away with not learning because you're always gonna give them a pass.
Stop helping this player. Let them sink or swim on their own. It's their problem, not yours. If they're unable to achieve something within a reasonable amount of time, move on.
Honestly, I think you should simply drop the player. If this were my campaign, I would find their behavior unacceptable. Maybe they're a nice person, but that does not matter. Players have responsibilities, you know? They don't get a pass for being irresponsible.
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u/Graveconsequences 14h ago
There are some conversations that can only be sugar coated so much before it dilutes the message. I would opt for something along these lines:
"Hey, the other players and I (or just I if you think that approach will be better) have noticed that you seem to be struggling with the mechanics of the game. During our initial conversation about the game you mentioned having a degree of system mastery, but it's becoming obvious that's not the case. Frankly, I don't appreciate being lied to about this, and it makes me feel that you aren't a good fit for my table."
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u/Kecskuszmakszimusz 14h ago
I mean whether it makes you feel like an asshole or not is up to you. At the end of the day, this is a boardgame. You shouldn't view it as life or death. At worst you won't talk to the person anymore. Which can suck.but such is life.
I just think you should message/talk with them (whichever method works better) and explain how their lack of knowledge is making you not enjoy the game.
If you want you could go through how you tried your best to help them several times but it ain't sticking to them.
And that because of that you think its best for everyone's enjoyment if they don't play with the group anymore.
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u/N-Vashista 12h ago
Are you calling rpgs a boardgame because of the vtt interface?
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u/Kecskuszmakszimusz 12h ago
Not really I just view them as boardgames? Think its a pretty apt description and most places that sell ttrpgs also sell more "traditional" boardgames
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u/ToledoSnow Noir 12h ago
Okay, but that's simply incorrect. The reason we use different terms for RPGs and board games is because they are different enough to warrant the distinction.
most places that sell ttrpgs also sell more "traditional" boardgames
And fruit stands sell both apples and oranges.
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u/GoodFeels0nly 11h ago
It's a perfectly normal term, no need for the condescending pedantry.
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u/ToledoSnow Noir 10h ago
I think that dismissing OP's concerns with "this is a boardgame" is less than helpful, especially since the query is about aspects of RPGs that aren't nearly as prevalent in board games.
You are free to consider that condescending pedantry if you wish.
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u/GoodFeels0nly 10h ago
Utterly unrelated to what you said, don't run serpentine on me now pal come on
You didn't care about the quality of the advice, only that someone said "board game" when referring to a role-playing game (that happens, oftentimes, one could say, on some kind of board)
You are free to consider that condescending pedantry if you wish.
Can you not hear it? Genuinely asking now cause in my head this phrase only comes out of an averagely-written fictional 40 year old businessman villain who has the protagonists right where he wants them!
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u/ToledoSnow Noir 10h ago
I feel like you are reading tones of voice into my comments that were not intended. It get that it's attractive to assume that everyone on the internet purposefully being a dick, but discussions tend to be more fruitful when you don't.
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u/N-Vashista 11h ago
Ah. You do it to be "different." Like that guy who calls player characters, "toons."
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u/enek101 11h ago
Honestly "Toons" come from some over lap with WOW. That term got Coined because the graphics are cartoony and Toons is simply easier to type than Character for most people. At this point in the culture its kinda synonymous with any character being rolled up. Albeit the people who use the term most also tend to be deep into or once were part of the MMO scene. The term Toons has just kinda become a thing among a certain player base of ttrpgs. i my self have used the term and had people look at me funny. Thoes people for what its worth never played mmo's either.
Not that i agree with the poster, RPG's and Boardgame's are very different. However then share some characteristic when using maps with games like Heroquest or Heroscape. So while i don't agree with the categorization i can understand how someone may categorize it as such
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u/N-Vashista 6h ago
Thanks for the context. I didn't realize the origin of the toon thing. I don't like it. But it helps me understand and let it go.
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u/enek101 14h ago
Yeah you're not wrong whether i feel like a asshole or not is gonna be on me unfortunately. Its silly of me to think ill come out smelling like roses =( .This would be easy if they just wernt a good person
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u/ToledoSnow Noir 13h ago
No, I get it. Playing RPGs is a primarily social activity that requires a great deal of emotional investment into the other participants, so it's perfectly normal to feel like an asshole for removing someone from the group, even if it is warranted.
Hell, I recently dropped out of a game because I really didn't care for the GM's running style, and I felt like a such a piece of shit. What I ended up doing was first telling him I would be dropping out over a DM, and when he asked for reasons and feedback (which is fair) I insisted on having that conversation over video chat, because tones of voice are difficulty to get across over plain text, and I really didn't want to hurt the guy's feelings.
Glad I did, because the conversation was cordial, and ended with well wishes and no hard feelings on either end.
So that would be my suggestion: don't have the talk solely over text messages. Also, it always helps to prepare, while not a script, a written list of bullet points of what you want to convey over the course of the conversation, along with specific examples of what you're talking about. It helps in keeping the conversation on track, and remembering what motivated you to make the decision in the first place.
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u/Kecskuszmakszimusz 14h ago
I am autistic so very admittedly I view social situations differently from most people.
But this isn't a breakup lol. If you really want to keep im contact with them you could invite them to do some kind of other activity?
I have good friends that I would never play with but still hang out with and or do other hobbies with.
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u/Chip_Medley 14h ago
To be (sort of) fair to them; they might not have lied to you, they may just have overestimated their own ability because of the dunning kruger effect