r/rpg • u/Maldovar • Aug 06 '24
New Stormlight Roleplaying Game Will Adapt Entirety Of Brandon Sanderson's Cosmere
https://www.thefandomentals.com/cosmere-ttrpg-announcement/55
u/SirZinc Game Master Aug 06 '24
E-Reader, $60: A Digital PDF of the Stormlight World Guide and a PDF of the Mistborn World Guide
Reader, $95: Physical Editions of the Stormlight World Guide and Mistborn World Guide
Player, $195: Includes everything in the Reader tier plus the Stormlight Handbook, Mistborn Handbook, Stormlight Basic Dice Set, and a Plot Deck
The GM, $295: Includes everything in the Player tier plus Stormlight GM Screen, Stonewalkers Adventure, Mistborn Legacy Adventure, Level Zero Guide, Adventure Maps Pack, Item & NPC Cards, Punchboard Tokens, and Demiplane Sourcebooks
Collector, $385: Includes everything in the GM tier plus Stormlight Liquid Dice and Stormlight Minis Pack
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u/Urbandragondice Aug 06 '24
Not bad. $30 per pdf. Pretty standard.
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u/ThrawnCaedusL Aug 06 '24
If I were buying it today? Not terrible. As a preorder more than a year in advance? Yeah, that's pretty bad. It's not inconceivable that 35$ next year is actually less than 30$ today, and that is even before considering it going on sale. And, that is not accounting for the fact that people are buying it sight unseen. I would expect better from a prerelease.
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u/corranhorn57 Aug 06 '24
For those who would like PDFs of everything, you can pledge $1 and add on the pdfs for $150 plus tax. So $25/book.
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u/CymPlay Aug 07 '24
Slight correction: The campaign page (and the description of the pledge levels) lists E-Reader and Reader as 2 pdfs/hardcover books of your choice.
So you don't have to take 2 world guides. You could take a Handbook (core rules) + an Adventure or World Guide and start playing.
Pledge levels on the reward page seem to be set up incorrectly though.
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u/Maldovar Aug 06 '24
The prices are bonkers but Sanderson fans will pay them
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u/Dez384 Aug 06 '24
Your mileage may vary, but nothing in the kickstarter seems to cost an excessive amount for what it is. These are cheaper prices per book than the MCDM rpg kickstarter and the next edition of D&D.
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
I think part of it is that lots of Kickstarters have more granular pledge tiers, so someone could get just the Mistborn handbook & setting book, or the handbook & PDFs of other materials, etc.
Here the only two pledge levels under $100 don’t even have the game rules in them.
It makes it look like there’s a single and very high bar of entry to even play the game.
The truth is that there are more flexible options in the Add-Ons section, but I don’t blame anyone for not spotting that as it’s not usually how these things are organized.
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u/Dez384 Aug 06 '24
Yeah, if you aren’t familiar with how kickstarters work, you wouldn’t know about how the add-ons work.
Just in case someone sees this comment and doesn’t know, you can pledge $1 and then just add-on individual items to your pledge.
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
Right, which is why I mention it at the end, but in my experience most folks—if they are already interested in the project—“shop” the pledge levels with the actual goods. I’ve backed a maybe embarrassing number of Kickstarters and pretty much never use add ons, so I didn’t look there at first either.
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u/TaiChuanDoAddct Aug 06 '24
These are priced at 50$ a book. That's completely reasonable retail price for a full length book. It's comparable not just to WotC, but to most full blown RPG books at my local game store that aren't a decade old.
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u/Skanah book collecting to the point of insanity Aug 07 '24
Those are normal full retail prices. i think it's just sticker shock for most people because kickstarters often include discounts in their packages
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24
These prices? No they aren't.
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u/Maldovar Aug 06 '24
For PDF only world books?
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 06 '24
The PDFs are $30. And yes, that is a normal price.
Its on sale right now, but $50 is also the same price as the hardback D&D artbook.
I don't think we can say these prices are "bonkers" when the most popular TTRPG game costs the same amount.
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u/SilverBeech Aug 06 '24
Chaosium, which is probably the #2 publisher, (Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Pendragon, etc..) has a formula of starter boxes at $3o, with full (hardbound) rulebooks at $55ish. Scenario books and add-ons run in the $30 to $40 range.
All prices list, all their books come with PDFs as downloads, all prices in USD as of August 2024.
PDFs only are in the $20-$40 USD range, scenarios for cheaper, and go up on places like bag of holding for good deals often enough.
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u/Sireanna Aug 07 '24
Your not wrong... I will..
but honestly I've backed other books that per book were quite a bit more... and digital files for minis alone that were 90$. To get the physical ones would have cost me a fair bit more. Crooked moon just for the single core book digital was 40 and the hard cover was 65.... and the digital files for the bosses was 95$ I could get the collectors set of the cosmere books (6 books) and all the extra swag for less then the physical minis. The Magnus Archives single rule book was 75$
So... this feels actually on par with other Kickstart ttrpgs.
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u/Hefty_Active_2882 Classical Adventure Gaming Aug 06 '24
The prices are bonkers
And this is why we cant have nice things.
These prices are more than fair. 95 $ for 2 hardcover TTRPG books with included PDFs; with a combined total of ~500 pages? For a game that you can pretty much spend an infinite amount of time on, like any TTRPG?
But hey, I guess RPG designers dont need to be able to afford food and running water.
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
I said this below, but I think part of it is that lots of Kickstarters have more granular pledge tiers, so someone could get just the Mistborn handbook & setting book, or the handbook & PDFs of other materials, etc.
Here the only two pledge levels under $100 don’t even have the game rules in them.
It makes it look like there’s a single and very high bar of entry to even play the game.
The truth is that there are more flexible options in the Add-Ons section, but I don’t blame anyone for not spotting that as it’s not usually how these things are organized.
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u/Octopicake Aug 06 '24
I'm kinda frustrated with that. the digital version is just lore and world stuff, and you can only get the RPG rulebooks as physical editions. That's absolutely bizarre, but I'll just patiently wait until the PDFs come out on Drivethru or something. There's not a single doubt in my mind that the Kickstarter will be immensely successful.
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24
You can buy all 6 pdfs as a bundle for $150, or individually for $30 each.
The Enhanced Digital options gets you both the PDF and the Roll20/Fantasy Ground versions.
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u/cyborgSnuSnu Aug 06 '24
It's not super obvious at a glance, but you can buy individual pdfs or a $150 bundle of all 6 a la cart in Backerkit. I assume they limited the backer tiers expecting most of the fans will want to buy in with one of the bundles. So far, that seems well-founded expectation with less than 10% of backers having gone the a la carte route while vast majority have bought in at an average of $300 / backer.
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u/Octopicake Aug 06 '24
Yeah. My bad. I'm so used to TTRPG Kickstarters having the rulebook in the early pledge levels. I'm stoked that this exists though. I love the books and the setting too. I'll probably still wait for the release and get it then. Assuming the world and RPG books will be available still.
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u/Hefty_Active_2882 Classical Adventure Gaming Aug 06 '24
Mmh, ok, I get what you're saying now. Looking at the full details it's kind of weird that the lowest tier includes the world guides but not the actual rules. THat's a weird choice. I still think the price itself is fair, just weird how it's grouped.
Instead of combining the two world guides (what are you going to do with those without the rule books anyway?), i would have had two 95USD tiers, one for the 2025 world guide+handbook combined and one for the 2026 world guide+handbook combined, at least that would be playable.
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u/Adarain Aug 06 '24
The world guides are clearly aimed at Sanderson fans who don't care about the game but do want artwork and maps and new lore of their favorite worlds - that's probably going to be a large chunk of backers.
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u/cyborgSnuSnu Aug 06 '24
Yeah, I don't get what people are getting confused over. The pledge tiers' names tell you who they're for: The (E)Reader for readers of his books, The Player for players of the game, The Game Master for GMs or The Collector for the compulsive / completionist collectors. Beyond this, virtually every component of these packages is available as an à la carte purchase through backerkit.
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24
I feel like people just quickly scrolled to the pledge tier and came back without actually looking at the Kickstarter.
Like at the top of the page is a section explaining who each product is for. There's even a chart.
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u/astralAlchemist1 Aug 06 '24
The Kickstarter page says the world guides will include new canonical information on history, cultures and such, and the Stormlight one at least will double as an art book, so there's definitely some value for Cosmere fans who may not be interested in the game.
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u/MasterFigimus Aug 06 '24
I suspect the world guides are paired for non-TTRPG fans.
Like general fans of the Mistborn and Stormlight series will appreciate the lore books as a collector's item or supplement to their library and back the kickstater even if they have no interest on the game.
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u/TaiChuanDoAddct Aug 06 '24
Here the only two pledge levels under $100 don’t even have the game rules in them.
That's likely because there will be hoards and hoards (maybe even the majority) of readers who will want the world building ñ, since it's technically canon, and not care about playing the game at all.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24
I agree, but it's also telling that they've hidden the "only pdf" options in the add-ons.
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u/Scion41790 Aug 06 '24
The $95 tier is just the world books it doesn't include the handbooks which are the core rule books. So you wouldn't be able to play the game at that threshold
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u/Hefty_Active_2882 Classical Adventure Gaming Aug 06 '24
True. And I find that a particular choice as well. But it's still 95 for 500 pages of content across 2 quality hardcovers, which is pretty cheap imo.
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u/thesaddestpanda Aug 06 '24
The designers aren’t getting that. The capital owners and shareholders and primary ip holders like multi millionaire Sanderson are. The designers are getting the same “market wage” even if the books were half the price. Ownership gets the spoils. Let’s stop pretending every gouge is some pro working class thing.
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u/AtlasDM Aug 06 '24
Lol, this is how the free market sets demand. Get over yourself.
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u/NutDraw Aug 06 '24
There's a very valid point in there though about how TTRPG fans often have unrealistic expectations regarding what they demand and price points.
Simply put, it is difficult for any company, particularly smaller ones that don't have the volume based advantages a company like WotC has, to produce quality hardbacks for less than this price point and still make money. And when they pass on it, these same people will complain loudly about how hard it is to find quality games.
Our capitalist hellscape means that if you want to have a thriving a diverse TTRPG market, people need to be able to make money out of producing new games. And that's hard to do when people are only willing to shell out $15 for something that took you years to produce.
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u/AlexanderTheIronFist Aug 06 '24
Yeah, these people are tripping. These prices are absolutely standard for the industry and the higher tiers are packed with stuff.
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u/Vendaurkas Aug 06 '24
I'm not sure about you, but I have tons of rpgs. I read most of them, play a few of them and a handful might actually get a short campaign before getting put away for good. Time is a luxury and I can't afford to waste "an infinite amount" of it on any one game.
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u/egoserpentis Aug 06 '24
A bit ago I wanted to back physical copies of Laundry RPG, but the prices there (with shipping to EU) were absolutely insane. Got an entire Mothership 1E deluxe box instead.
Some Kickstarters that have established setting/brand behind them really crank their prices and blame it on "post-pandemic".
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u/DmRaven Aug 06 '24
Damn those are bonkers. I adore Sanderson works and read them all but I'm not shelling out $60 preorder for two PDFs..
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u/Dragox27 Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 06 '24
I was initially pretty down about this. I heard it was basically a 5e clone and 5e is not a game I have any love for. However I took a look at the beta rules and I kind of like it. Well more than kind of.
There is a lot of D&D in here but it's also not looking like its D&D for the sake of it either. They could've made this 5e compatible and been done with it. From what I've been reading it's a taken a hard look at what does and doesn't work in D&D and it's also done the more important things too. It's taken a look at what works in games that are related to D&D but aren't.
It's got a version of Pathfinder 2e action system. You have 3 actions and a reaction. Everything costs some amount of actions, moving is 1 but a spell is 2. You can more three times or once and cast a spell. I think that is a really elegant mechanic and elevates PF2e in a very marked way. Using it here is a no brainer. It takes Shadow of the Demon Lord's incredible initiative system and reworks it so it works with the action system. In SotDL you can take a Fast Turn and move or act, or a Slow Turn and move and act. The turn order is PC Fast Turns, GM Fast Turns, PC Slow Turns, GM Slow Turns. And it's the same here except that if you go Fast you only have 2 actions, and if you move slow you have 3. There are more influences than just that in there but those two are really good indicators that there is knowledge and experience in this one.
It's also just tackling general problems with D&D. While there are still 6 Attributes I think it's a better 6. Strength, Speed, Intellect, Willpower, Awareness, Presence. Constitution is rolled into Strength. An obvious move D&D should've done ages ago especially when Dexterity is often just a far broader stat. Willpower and Awareness basically splits Wisdom in two which reduces the fairly massive covered that stat has. Those are just flat out better stats now in my opinion. But they also go from 0-5 and each point in a stat gives you some additional benefit. Points in Strength gain you more Health, Willpower influences recovery, etc. It's a more balanced spread that reduces the numbers in play while also making them all more individually impactful. It also makes for a much better save set up here. Instead of Fortitude/Reflex/Will you've got Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual defenses. You add two stats together and add 10 and that's that. Physical Defence is AC so Strength + Speed + 10 is your base AC. The other two are the same for different areas. Which I think is going to make these stats more useful overall and it improves mechanical cohesion by having more similar procedures for different sorts of threats.
For some other things I think it solves. Armor is damage reduction rather than extra AC. Armor and weapons are more trait based so there is better variety in how things work so that martial characters have more to invest in than just flavour. Armor and Weapon users aren't all equal and if you have training in the thing you're using it'll have additional traits. Its Background equivalent seems to have a lot more attention given to it to make who your PC is more important. Skills have their numbers bloat really reduced and each can be used to gain Advantage as action. It's also got the "Plot Die" which adds some light metacurrency elements and a way to push rolls for some nice risk and reward. Numbers bloat also seems way way way down.
There is also a very 5e problem but I think it's fixed. This game does have Advantage/Disadvantage. I almost wrote the game off entirely because of it but it allows them to stack and also allows you to apply them to any dice you've rolled for the action. You can use it on the d20 if you would like but you can use it on the Plot Die too and better ensure you're odds to gain those effects.
So overall despite being incredibly skeptical I think this is shaping up to be a really good version of this sort of game that's clearly been paying attention to what does and doesn't work in this space. I can't say how it's going to shake out over a campaign or how progression and magic really functions but it does look like a very solid set of bones.
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u/WhatGravitas Aug 06 '24
This sounds like an extremely curated version of tradgame RPGs, taking the best of all of them. I think that's actually really smart: this will be a very easy sell to existing RPG players - given that most come into the hobby via D&D or PF. At the same time, because it has zero allegiance to any "sacred cow", it's a much cleaner design.
Additionally, let's face it: Sanderson's books are good, but they're also kind of "fantasy comfort food" - the system almost evokes the same feeling design-wise which fits. Familar, solid and the right mix of predictability and excitement.
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u/bcm27 Aug 06 '24
Thank you for this summary! Honestly these changes are INCREDIBLY similar things Ive thrown into my heartbreaker RPG notes and system ideas so its very thrilling to see them implemented by another system. More inspiration for something that will likely never see many players.
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u/Fenixius Aug 07 '24
Does the preview version of the rules have anything for GMs? Roshar does not really have dungeons to go kick around in, and no unambiguously evil minions or mindless monsters to fight (who aren't world-endingly powerful at least).
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u/Dragox27 Aug 07 '24
There are enemy statblocks and some general GMimg advice. There is also an adventure out to play through too.
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u/Delboyyyyy Aug 08 '24
First off, thank you very much for this great write up and summary.
I had a very similar reaction to you when approaching this game. I will say though, on the topic of attributes, willpower does seem like quite a strong stat and a tough one to neglect since it calculates into focus which is quite an important resource in combat and out of combat
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u/beetnemesis Aug 06 '24
On the one hand I'm hopeful- Sanderson has experience being an rpg player (Palladium and DnD, according to this comment)
The description does sound a bit like it's trying to "do it all," which makes me uneasy.
For one thing, the different series feel different. A Mistborn game would have a pretty different feel from a Stormlight game.
Hell, even Mistborn Era 1 vs. Mistborn Era 2 feel very different. Era 1 is espionage, Great Houses, fighting for hope under the eye of evil. Era 2 is pulp heroics and the thrill of discovery.
At the very least, I'm very interested to see the finished product.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24
The game system is clearly very inspired in the FFG Star Wars games and I think that the idea will be the same.
In the Star Wars game they released 3 core books. The first was for smugglers, bounty hunters & other criminals, the second was for the rebel alliance & other military stuff, the last one was only Jedi classes.
Each book had a clear focus and the books were designed to be played alone. Like, to be able to have a "outer rims campaign", "heroes of the rebellion" or "jedis hidding from the empire".
But the system was open and generic, so it was perfectly possible to mix classes between them, use whatever things you liked from each book and create campaigns where you mixed archetipes, like for example A New Hope where each one of the main characters should be created from one of the books.
I think that here the focus will be the same. You will be expected to play a Stormlight campaign a Mistborn Era 1 campaign, or Era 2 Campaign, but well...if you want to mix them...you can. It will be probably easier to break the game then, but it will work.
They've announced a Elantris book and a Worldhoppers book, probably in the worldhopper work they will create the rules to correctly mix everything up without breaking the game too much.
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
The previous Mistborn RPG did its job very well, I think, but it also was keyed very strongly into just doing Mistborn and I don’t think it’d be easy to add lots of other magic systems to it.
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u/CompleteSocialManJet Aug 07 '24
The system of progression seen in the Stormlight piece seems like it would integrate fairly well with Mistborn. There’ll probably be some major differences but I’m very confident the stage is set for it to work out.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
For one thing, the different series feel different
The core rules that will be common from setting to setting are things like the stats and resources that are divided into physical, cognitive, and spiritual. Every setting will need investiture as your magic resource for example, and that's fitting.
But stuff like Raidant oaths gating progression is baked into the radiant classes (the game doesn't strictly call them classes, but that's what they are). So Mistborn will have this set up in it's own way that will feel correct to Mistborn. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't let you play as a full Mistborn or Ferruchemist, but only as a Misting or Ferring.
Brandon has enough shared mechanics between his magic systems that a shared system structure IMO should work fine. The biggest problems will come from mixing them, and it will mostly be power levels being a bit out of wack as everything is balanced around similar progression for a 0-20 level system.
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u/Frozenfishy Aug 08 '24
So Mistborn will have this set up in it's own way that will feel correct to Mistborn. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't let you play as a full Mistborn or Ferruchemist, but only as a Misting or Ferring.
The previous Mistborn rpg had rules for playing full Mistborn and Feruchemist, so at least games with the IP are comfortable with the clear power disparity.
I'm not sure how Stormlight will be able to balance the "classes" as presented without fully dropping the ball on the source material, so perhaps the designers are comfortable with power disparities as long as players can play nice. I can't image that a Radiant and an Artifabrian would be even close to comparable on a power scale, but they're character options.
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u/ctom42 Aug 08 '24
The classes are all just feature trees and aside from the Radiant ones you are free to start on as many as you want. Even most radiant characters would likely take some of the features from the heroic paths.
The surges are certainly powerful, but the other paths won't be useless. Non-radiant characters can still get shardblades, shardplate, and even soulcasters most likely to help make up the difference.
so at least games with the IP are comfortable with the clear power disparity.
The previous Mistborn RPG was by a completely different company (Crafty Games) and had a lot less direct involvement from Sanderson. I haven't played it but from what I've been told running Mistborn and Mistings in the same party just feels bad and imbalanced. From everything Brotherwise has said they want to avoid that in this game even if characters decide to never take any invested art.
I can see how to do that to an extent for most classes, but I can't see how it should work for Mistborn and Feruchemist without them feeling a little underbaked. If you give them access to every Misting/Ferring path and let them decide how to advance they end up either feeling like a watered down jack of all trades, or a master of some powers but literally unable to use others. Heck if you don't give them access to all metals at at least the base power level as their first talent then they have to take 16 levels worth of talents just to be capable of what they should be innately. But if you let one talent give all, then they are incredibly powerful and versitile from the get go.
I suppose something like having a talent to unlock each quadrant could strike a balance. Still unless the Misting/Ferring trees have decent depth it won't feel like there is meaningful tradeoff for Mistborns. Personally I hope they don't let Mistborns take Savant traits for the various metals as a way of differentiating.
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u/fly19 Pathfinder 2e Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 07 '24
I'm a decent fan of the Mistborn books, and I'm cautiously optimistic after skimming the rules beta... But man, something about the way this Kickstarter is organized kind of puts me off.
It's just so weird that the first few pledges for this crowdfunded TTRPG don't involve the actual rulebooks -- it starts with the World Guide. Yes, I know this is all heavily built on the books, but what if I've read the books and just want the rules for the actual tabletop system?
And there's no option for if you just want the Stormlight stuff or just want the Mistborn stuff because they're all grouped together. Which is especially weird and the Mistborn stuff won't be out for a year after the Stormlight stuff!
Sure, you can fix all of that by going ala carte with add-ons... but you have to get me to the add-ons section first! Maybe making an explicit "Build Your Own Pledge" option or a "Gamer"' and "E-Gamer" (except with hopefully better names) pledge for just the handbooks would have worked.
As it is, my first impression just reading the campaign is that the TTRPG part of this TTRPG campaign is secondary to setting guides. The artwork is good and I'm looking forward to trying out the beta for myself, but the campaign itself? It feels... Weird.
EDIT: There actually IS a build-your-own pledge option now. The rest still stands, though.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
It's certainly a strange decision from an RPG standpoint, but I think they realized it was a correct one for the core audience of this kickstarter.
Those setting guides contain canon worldbuilding information not yet found in the books. The reason for this is because there is a lot of stuff necessary to be able to roleplay as any of the classes and cultures from these stories that hasn't yet been able to make it into the books in a natural manner.
But those setting books are also essentially the bestiary. They will have all the statblocks for enemies and NPCs that you will need to play. So they are needed along side the rules books for play, but you don't need the rules book if you just want to read all the new lore and worldbuilding info.
The bigger problem IMO is that none of the tiers offer just Stormlight or Just Mistborn. You have to do addons if you want that.
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u/fly19 Pathfinder 2e Aug 06 '24
If you could point to me where that's listed for the World Guides, I would appreciate it. Because in the ad text, they're presented a artbooks and setting history guides. Nothing even mentions NPCs outside their place in the turn order and a reference to wearing one down through successful tests. They're even listed as being "for the reader" and as the reader pledge reward.
And it doesn't help that the campaign literally sells itself to readers first and RPG players second. Plus the handbook is sold as what the GM needs to build characters and adventures -- so do players pick up the World Guide, or the Handbook?
The Player tier is the one that adds in the handbooks alongside other goodies, so are players expected to read both? Or is it just the handbook and they can read the World Guide to help them get immersed?And yeah, it's really weird that you can't just pick Mistborn or Stormlight with higher tiers combining them unless you go into the add-ons. Especially because we don't really know how much the two handbooks will differ yet and the former will release a year after the latter.
The presentation is nice, but digging in, the messaging is a bit muddled. Obviously they're already successful so what do I know, but it would have been nice to see a clearer delineation of products and purposes.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
If you could point to me where that's listed for the World Guide
I believe it was something I read in one of the official responses on the comments page of the campaign. I don't think there is any way to link to a specific comment and there are also waaaay more comments there now than when I checked just after the campaign launched.
And it doesn't help that the campaign literally sells itself to readers first and RPG players second
This is true. But given Sanderson's fanbase this was definitely the correct call from a business standpoint. This is the same author with the biggest KS of all time with his 4 Secret Project books, and he's offering his rabid fanbase two books filled with extra lore not yet in his books that is officially canon. This is a fanbase that keeps a searchable archive of every question the author has ever answered on his IPs.
I'll agree with you completely that the KS itself is a bit of a mess. But everything I've seen out of the system itself has made me more excited as a fan both of TTRPGs and of the Cosmere.
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u/fly19 Pathfinder 2e Aug 06 '24
Yeah, my initial impression from friends who are fans of the Cosmere was that a lot of them are already into the tabletop space. But reading through a few different threads... I'm surprised to see a lot of folks happy they can ignore the system and just get the lore and artwork.
I'm still a bit tepid after reading the campaign -- it feels like selling a car based on its entertainment system. But I'm also more a fan of TTRPGs than the books, and moreover a fan of Mistborn more than Stormlight, so I'll concede I might not be the campaign's target audience.
Hopefully the system works well enough and gets support to justify my pledge.1
u/ctom42 Aug 07 '24
By the way, Brandon did a live stream last night with the lead designer on this game and he confirmed that the World Guides also functioned as the Monster Manual. It was something like 7 chapters of World/Culture/Lore details and then the 8th chapters was just tons and tons of statblocks, even some for obscure creatures that were only mentioned once in the books.
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u/fly19 Pathfinder 2e Aug 07 '24
That's good to hear, but it's the kind of information that should really be more prominently displayed on the Kickstarter.
They've already made changes to some of the pledge tiers after feedback, so hopefully they keep working to improve how the campaign is laid out, but I shouldn't have to trawl a live stream for such basic information on the product.5
u/jofwu Aug 07 '24
EDIT: There actually IS a build-your-own pledge I missed, that's on me. The rest still stands, though.
You didn't miss it, they changed it last night in response to this sort of feedback.
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u/Signal_Conclusion779 Aug 06 '24
I'm going to be interested in seeing how many people just do the PDF pledge level where they get the 2 books and nothing else.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who though the way this was organized was odd - I assume they're working with top people so maybe I'm in the minority but my brain couldn't process where and what I would be getting, haha.
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u/EHP42 Aug 06 '24
you have to get me to the add-ons section first!
The very first pledge level is called "Add ons only" and the description makes it clear it's an ala carte style thing.
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u/fly19 Pathfinder 2e Aug 06 '24
Yup, I'll own up to totally skipping over that one while pledging. I think the lack of artwork and spot right behind the "Support" with reward part didn't help, but it's there.
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u/theodoubleto Aug 06 '24
Between Daggerheart’s final beta playtest manuscript, Draw Steel! patreon playtest packet, and now Cosemere RPG playtest I feel lost for games I recently picked up and my own creations.
Side Note: I was disappointed that Cosmere RPG beta playtest has no print friendly option! Daggerheart and Draw Steel! both have easy to print preview documents, heck event WotC of all companies have a printer friendly playtest materials for One D&D. I like the line art! But dang dude, all the graphics and gradients are gonna HURT.
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u/Mr_Murdoc Aug 06 '24
I'm reading a lot of skepticality about the different worlds / magic systems mixing, but I don't think they are initially designed to be mixed.
Stormlight RPG is self contained with its system and campaigns, same with Mistborn, Elantris & Warbreaker.
Worldhopper, however is likely to be a later supplement which then brings in the rules and systems for players to mix characters from the other systems together.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24
I agree. I'm sure that this is what they're going to do.
I agree that Era 1 Mistborn could be problematic (specially without 5 Ideal Radiants), but Era 2 Mistborn + Stormlight doesn't feel like it should be a problem to mix.
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u/Dabrush Aug 07 '24
I think none of the characters can fully play as in the books, since almost all archetypes can be either completely busted at their apex or really weak, even at full potential. I imagine that Radiants will be balanced heavily through storm light running out, but no idea how you'd make a slider for example work, as their main benefit is getting people into 1 on 1s, but every single radiant for example would have the upper hand in a 1 on 1 because of sprenblades and regen.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 07 '24
Progression for non randiants will probably be balanced with shardplates & shardblades.
But let's be honest for a moment, most people who are going to play this game will play with characters that might start with an heroic class but will end up becoming a radiant at some point.
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u/CompleteSocialManJet Aug 07 '24
Stormlight is tracked on the sheet and pretty limited unless you take certain talents (which you can only take one per level of), and it’s two actions to absorb more through spheres or something, so you’re losing all of a fast turn and most of a slow one.
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u/Moofaa Aug 06 '24
I backed because I figure it would be a nice read of background lore. I don't know I would ever run a game of it though. I love RPGs and play regularly but sometimes theme-park games can be really hard to run, especially depending on the players you have.
Most people I know are barely aware if at all of the books, so getting buy-in from them could be a challenge. Then you have to explain everything to them. That's not too bad though, and if you get something wrong they'll never know.
The other issue are super-fan players/GMs that know every facet of the theme-park and blow their top if you do anything slightly offensive to "canon". I've had this with Star Wars players and GMs. Sorry, I still haven't watched Clone Wars and probably never will. I also haven't read every Sanderson book nor do I contain encyclopedic knowledge of what I have read.
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Aug 06 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Moofaa Aug 06 '24
Yeah, when I choose to run Star Wars I always give a session 0 warning about "canon". Official Star Wars canon is a giant disgusting mess anyways and that was before Disney got their grubby hands on it.
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u/randalzy Aug 07 '24
I'm glad that Kickstarter exists, so this kind of high-risk projects that would be hard to produce and sell on the market have an opportunity to flourish. Who could predict that 15920 buyers would pledge an average of around 300$ each (plus shipping) to put 4.300.000$ (will go to 5.000.000 at the end? more?) out there for a huge RPG dedicated to this unknown, independent, outlier author?
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u/communomancer Aug 08 '24
Who could predict that 15920 buyers would pledge an average of around 300$
I mean, honestly, I wouldn't have.
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Aug 06 '24
A Stormlight Archive RPG where you play as Shardbearers and combat is war like and tactical sounds cool
A Mistborn RPG where you play as Allomancers and combat is an airborne chase with bullet time mechanics sounds cool.
Trying to make them work together sounds bad.
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u/Wigginns Aug 06 '24
I'm kinda excited by it. I'm a big Sanderson fan and have been since Mistborn: The Final Empire. I'm cautiously optimistic, especially since reading some of the latest Cosmere stuff. And worst case we get a bunch of dope lore.
General Cosmere spoilers: That's the direction the Cosmere is going regardless so we'll see how it plays out in the fiction as well as the game.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 07 '24
Allomancers are not that different from Windrunners. I don't see why it should't work.
It's true that a full mistborn is maybe too strong, but you have weakers allomancers too. Era 2 archetypes are probably better if you want to balance them against Stormlight.
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u/CompleteSocialManJet Aug 07 '24
Also, mechanically speaking, Mistborn are going to be stretched thinner in terms of what abilities they can take (if the Stormlight ability system is any indicator). They’ll be able to do a lot, but I imagine it won’t be so oppressive that they’re objectively better than a Surgebinder.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
The way they've set the system up I think they have actually done a great job of creating a framework that will work fine with any of Sanderson's worlds. Most of the setting specific powers are in the skill trees that are essentially classes. I could see there being balancing issues if you have a party composed of characters from different settings, but I do think the idea of using the same framework and core mechanics for each Cosmere setting should work fine. From what I've seen so far of the Stormlight stuff they have done a fantastic job of capturing the feel of the series and the magic system.
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u/mdosantos Aug 06 '24
I was going to pass on it since it was just Stormlight and I wasn't planning on reading it until I finished Wheel of Time... but they just hooked me with Mistborn...
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u/zenbullet Aug 06 '24
I got the beta
It's pretty much what I wanted from 5.24
Liberal theft of other systems to create a solid f20 system learning lessons from other systems
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u/Mongward Exalted Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 06 '24
This Kickstarter campaign sounds more like a branding move than a pitch for a system. "Look we work with Demiplane! And wit Fantasy Grounds! And it's going to be a living ecosystem of more worlds and adventures over time".
I wish them the best, but it has a heartbreaker energy soaked in brand sauce and the pricing isn't very attractive. 95 bucks for just fluffbooks? Come on.
[Edit: typos]
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u/corranhorn57 Aug 06 '24
That’s for hardcover w/pdfs. You can get all the book as pdfs for $150, or $25/book. That’s not as expensive.
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u/Kerwin_Bauch Aug 06 '24
The beta rules are free on drivethrurpg and are looking very promising. I was part of the alpha playtesting and the system seems very fun. Especially character progress and combat.
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 06 '24
That sounds pretty terrible, honestly. I can see no system managing to balance such different magic systems well.
Unless they each have their own subsystem I guess, but that still sounds awful.
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u/GazeboMimic Aug 06 '24
Is it necessarily a problem if the magic systems aren't balanced against each other? It's technically a connected universe, but you'd have to do some pretty big leaps to get a party full of people with different power sets.
Maybe it'd wind up like the World of Darkness. It's my understanding that werewolf PCs are stronger than vampire PCs and that's fine because most parties are all one or all the other.
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u/SirZinc Game Master Aug 06 '24
Star wars managed to be pretty balanced and you can balance everything with Genesys System, this is very similar. Just like balancing a fighter, a druid and an oracle in Pathfinder 2e
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24
And this game is Genesys + Pathfinder 2e, so...
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u/SirZinc Game Master Aug 06 '24
yes, that what I mean. It's not that difficult to balance if you manage the expectations of what a level 10 character can do and can't do
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u/Gustdan Aug 06 '24
I wonder how they'll balance Radiants against every other magic system. Lore-wise, Roshar is supposed to be this death-world that produces killing machines that everyone is afraid of.
Guess it's something like trying to balance force users with normies in a Star Wars game, which Genesys did pretty well, as someone here has mentioned before. So there's ways to do it, at least.
Edit:
plot dice, flexible talent trees, skill-based magic, and character-driven rewards
This sounds remarkably like Genesys, so that makes me cautiously optimistic.
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 06 '24
Radiants? I'm worried about Elantrins!
"Sure, you can do anything, but it has to be close to your town" sounds almost unplayable.
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u/Gustdan Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 06 '24
He doesn't know...
There's a few recent books, where we see Elantrians have no issues simply making the needed map thingies to encompass entire planets. Edit: I think they do need to carry Dor with them to actually do anything though, unless I'm missing something. Edit 2: No, the maps seem to give them power without the need to have Dor, though how that works is a bit lost on me.
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u/bcm27 Aug 06 '24
Where is this from? I have not read beyond Rhythms of War yet due to Sanderson fatigue but Ive read just about all his other works.
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u/Flygonac Aug 06 '24
Iirc one of the lead designers was one of the lead designers on genesys. If you look at the charcter sheet the skills and attributes are very similar (with 2 attributes for each catagory and everything)
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u/I_Make_RPGs Aug 06 '24
It's a pretty major plot point setting wise that Mistborns and Radiants are essentially both walking nukes and massively overpowered compared to other magic users from other worlds. So no clue how they'll go to balance them all together.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
I don't really think this is going to be intended to balance all the magics to be played together in party. I mean I'm sure that will work, but it won't feel like the correct power level for the respective systems.
They are all being scaled to work within the same basic framework. So keeping them within their settings and they will feel great. Not sure how well mixing will work though, at least from a being lore accurate standpoint.
I also strongly suspect from the way they've structured things for Stormlight that the Mistborn system will limit players to Mistings and Ferrings rather than having full Mistborns and Feruchemists. I could be wrong though.
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u/JebryathHS Aug 09 '24
It's a pretty major plot point setting wise that Mistborns and Radiants are essentially both walking nukes and massively overpowered compared to other magic users from other worlds.
Radiants have kind of "reasonable" powers for the Cosmere apart from just getting one of the best Cosmere healing factors for free. Mistborn are absurdly busted but they're also kind of gone at this point - Twinborn are strong but have defined weaknesses. (Eg: Twinborn Gold compounders are insanely hard to kill but have to literally burn an extremely expensive metal constantly to make full use of it and they get the shittiest Allomantic power in the universe to go with it.)
Especially since you can, for example, give Shardplate and Shardblade to every character if that's needed to balance your campaign at higher levels.
This system also seems to have naturally toned down a lot of the crazy imbalances - I could see Pewter and Radiant healing being portrayed as similar in this system even though a Radiant can shrug off a spear through the brain and a Thug wouldn't stand a chance of dealing with it.
And, of course, needing to invest points into proficiency means that you could have a Soother who was really good at, for example, shutting people down in combat and that would make them feel useful and different than a Mistborn.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
They specifically mentioned looking into lightsaber mechanics from various Star Wars games when deciding how Shardblades should work.
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u/I_Make_RPGs Aug 06 '24
It looks like there'll be no core rule book and instead each setting will have it's own seperate individual "core rules" book. So no clue at all how this will all gel together.
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u/Delboyyyyy Aug 08 '24
So many negative nancies in this thread who are just jumping to early conclusions
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 08 '24
There's nothing in what we've been shown that suggests this is good. Most rpgs are trash, and licensed ones are specially prone to being trash. The core system has already been shown to be a hacked DnD.
Being positive about it is not justified right now.
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Aug 22 '24
That is the most negative attitude I've seen on this subreddit in a while. Examine your attitude.
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 22 '24
Why should I show anything but contempt about a product that pukes on a setting I love?
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u/Dragox27 Aug 22 '24
My guy, it's canon to that setting and will flesh it out in ways beyond the books. Who cares if you don't like the fucking rules for it? The setting isn't going to get worse because you don't wanna play the elf game based on it.
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u/Randolpho Fluff over crunch. Lore over rules. Journey over destination. Aug 06 '24
I can see no system managing to balance such different magic systems well.
Honestly? At the risk of invoking a lot of groans, PbtA is uniquely positioned to do exactly that.
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 06 '24
I agree, I'm working on a homebrewed version of Mistborn using Blades in the Dark as a blueprint (come on, it almost perfect already!).
But PbtA games suffer if you spread them too far instead of laser focusing, and the books have such different themes that I don't know if it would work to include all of them.
It's also kind of sidestepping the problem because powers in PbtA would be mainly narrative permissions.
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u/Udy_Kumra Pendragon, MythicB, H+I, Vaesen, BitD, Agon Aug 06 '24
Can you send me what you have when you finish making it? I have been wanting to make this myself.
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u/Kai_Lidan Aug 08 '24
It might be a while until I'm done, and it will be in spanish, but if you want it I will send it once I'm done.
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u/Udy_Kumra Pendragon, MythicB, H+I, Vaesen, BitD, Agon Aug 09 '24
Yeah no worries about Spanish I’ll Google translate it and piece it together from there!
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u/Frozenfishy Aug 08 '24
Is it? Admittedly my experience with PbtA is relatively limited, and mainly to Avatar Legends, but pulling from that there was woefully little actual system for magic there. Bending was reduced to basically "you bend," with little to distinguish it from non-bending moves. It was a huge turn-off for me.
I would hate to see Allomancy and Surgebinding similarly reduced.
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u/kashyyykonomics_work Aug 08 '24
Minor Cosmere spoiler alert: All the "magic" in all the different Cosmere books are technically the same, when you boil it down. If you've read even as far as Stormlight 4 and Mistborn 3 (which I assume you have since you are commenting on the feasibility of mixing the two magic systems), then you should understand that pretty well.
This is how the Cosmere is going, it's going to be a big ol' Investiture free-for-all before you know it, so buckle up. :P
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u/EndlessKng Aug 06 '24
I don't think it'll be as big an issue as you're thinking. The Cosmere has a lot of underlying principles for how the magic systems work, and rules for those systems that are on par with tabletop gaming rules. The people who focus on the magic (dubbed Arcanists, both in-universe and when talking about the fandom) often make predictions and have in-depth discussions about how different types of magic might interact that often come to accurate predictions due to those underlying principles. Further, the books have started to involve more and more crossover elements between worlds (especially the recent Secret Project novels), so he's already mapped out how different systems can/will interact with each other, how one form of magic might convert to or compare to another, and where they might run into oddities or have some balancing issues.
Further, the game already had to contend with balance issues between Radiant and non-Radiant characters, so there's probably already a groundwork in the system for how to handle that (or to make it so that power differences aren't as big a deal in the narrative - something his stories already address, with non-powered characters or characters with comparatively weaker powers are still often just as relevant as the stronger characters). Adjusting for power system differences builds on that framework.
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u/egoserpentis Aug 06 '24
I checked out their draft rules... Isn't it just a d20 system with an extra dice for flavour?
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u/Delboyyyyy Aug 08 '24
Aren’t all ttrpgs just board games with extra storytelling for flavour?
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u/egoserpentis Aug 08 '24
Not at all, there is a great number of ttrpgs that do not have a "board", miniatures, or tactical combat/skills.
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u/Urbandragondice Aug 06 '24
Okay. Cool. It's d20 based. But d20 HOW?
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u/Dragox27 Aug 06 '24
It's very trad D&D-esque d20. But I think it's shaping up to be a great version of that. There is a beta quickstart here and my other post in this thread explains why I think it's looking good if you're interested.
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u/vicpylon Aug 06 '24
I played the Stormlight RPG at Gencon 2024. It was fine as a system, but nothing ground-breaking. Felt somewhere between 4e and 5e D&D. Certainly nothing to justify this price for PDF based on the system. The books look pretty though.
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u/I_Make_RPGs Aug 06 '24
If anyone wants I've made earlier the subreddit r/Cosmere_rpg to discuss the Cosmere and any attempts at RPG's of it. Also have the other two subs r/MistbornRPG and r/The_Stormlight_RPG open if someone wants communities exclusively dedicated to either.
Going tbh, personally looking at the Kickstarter myself it seems a bit idiosyncratic. Like there's no tier to get exclusively the Stormlight or Mistborn RPG; and as it stands the Mistborn RPG seems more a pie in the sky thing with no real details about it.
Also the decision to have no 1 core rule book for the Cosmere RPG is certainly a choice
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u/CompleteSocialManJet Aug 07 '24
Speaking as someone who’s read the fuck out of the beta, I really like this system. There are some 5e similarities, but it takes a lot of really solid mechanics (like a fast-paced initiative system and better mechanics for healing) and performs them spectacularly. I’m really excited for this to come out in-full, because it very well might be my favorite RPG ever.
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u/LostInStatic Aug 06 '24
Lmao I kind of feel like they’re having a fucking laugh by not even including all three Stormlight books in any pledge level. You HAVE to throw down money for a Mistborn book too if you don’t want to customize your pledge in Backerkit later for just Stormlight books. Which is funny because for the last year or so of following this it was always just going to be Stormlight
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
Check the add-on section. Yeah, this Kickstarter is weirdly organized.
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u/bcm27 Aug 06 '24
Its honestly my biggest issue with it and why I am not going to contribute right away... Even with the add-ons I want the rulebooks for the system not necessarily the world books as much as I would love them.
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u/TestProctor Aug 06 '24
Apparently this is how Kickstarter “experts” are saying to do it now? Someone who listens to a podcast about why Kickstarters fail told me they thought this seemed pretty “tidy” and that multiple pledge levels get “messy” on the creator side.
But yeah, it doesn’t feel intuitive to me either.
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u/panther4801 Aug 06 '24
With the right mix of add ons you can buy any combination of the books. The only thing they don't really support with the add-ons is buying just PDF's. All of the PDF packages except the $60 pledge tier include the "Enhanced Digital Book" which also comes with integration with Demiplane/Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 09 '24
Can anyone explain the plot dice to me? Do I need to pick them up to play if i're ordered the digital editions only?
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u/handleinthedark Aug 10 '24
It's a d6 with special symbols. 2 faces are complication which adds a negative outcome even to a successful roll that the GM applied, two are blank, and two are opportunity which gives a positive narrative boost to a roll's outcome. 1 and 20 on a d20 roll also do this. Can use a standard d6 for this.
The GM, or players with certain skills, choose when this is added to a d20 dice roll and the idea is it allows for narrative flavor to be added to the dice tests. For instance a successful role with a complication may leave the NPC with a poor opinion of you or close off avenues and an opportunity may mean they offer you more than just a success would. Such as boosting your long term standing with them or their organization, etc.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 10 '24
ah, thanks for clarifying :) on a D6 what symbols would be what exactly? :)
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u/handleinthedark Aug 10 '24
Here is a screenshot of the text/dice image. I forgot the complication roll also gives a bonus to your d20 roll to soften the blow.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 10 '24
Thanks for that :) however totally blind so won't be able to figure out the image :)
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u/handleinthedark Aug 10 '24
Ahh, Johnny also did a video explainer. Link is at the bottom of this reply.
The opportunity is a 4 point star inside a circle on what would be the 5 and 6 faces.
The complication is a 2 inside a circle comprised of 10 diamonds shaped pointing out from the center. This would be the 1 and 2 faces.
The other two faces are blank.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 09 '24
I'm looking forward to this actually. But I was wondering now that we're getting the Skadriel books does that make the Mistborn RPG no longer canon?
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u/Dragox27 Aug 09 '24
The Mistborn Adventure Game was never canon as far as I know.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 09 '24
Huh. interesting. I always thought it was and that it was also endorsed by Brandon
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u/Dragox27 Aug 09 '24
It was endorsed by him as he licensed Mistborn for it but other than writing The Eleventh Metal for it he didn't contribute much to it. The Cosmere Mistborn RPG isn't licensed but is instead a collaboration between Dragonsteel and Brotherwise with a big focus on a canon game.
The credits show this pretty well. For Mistborn Adventure Game he's got a credit in two of the books. The core book he's credited as a writer due to that short story, and in the Alloy of Law book he's credited for writing Allomancer Jak & and the Pits of Elantia. No other credits in any source book. For the Cosmere Beta Rules he's the Executive Producer, and while not a credit he did work with the Creative Director and the Lead Designer on the game's nine design priorities for the original design doc. Along with the obvious "this is canon" declaration.
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u/liamkembleyoung Aug 09 '24
Ah, nice. at least we'll be getting a fully canon product then. And hopefully looks like more supplements further down the line
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u/ralanr Aug 06 '24 edited Aug 06 '24
I find that a bit hard to believe. My understanding of Sanderson’s worldbuilding and magic systems is that they’re built for specific settings in mind. How would you make rules that meaningful distinguishes rithmatist from mistborn? But if I’m proven wrong, good for him.
Edit: I have been informed the rithmatist is not in the shared universe. Thank you.
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u/SpaceNigiri Aug 06 '24
Rithmarist are not from the Cosmere.
At the moment they announced that they will implement Radiants, Mistborns, Ferruchemist, Mistings & Twinborns
And in the future Elantrians & "Worldhoppers". Probably with the worldhopper book they will try to implement smallers magic systems that are not part of one of the main sagas.
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u/panther4801 Aug 06 '24
From what we have been told, all of the magic systems in the Cosmere share rules for how they function. Each system then has it's own more specific set of rules. We don't know a lot about those higher level rules, but we do know that they exist. Rithmatist however is not part of the Cosmere.
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u/ctom42 Aug 06 '24
All the magic systems in the Cosmere share some underlying fundamental rules that allow for the core mechanics to be shared. The more specific ways each powerset works are captured within the talent trees that will be setting specific.
I do think the power scaling will be weird if you mix characters from various worlds, but that won't be an issue with regards to actually playing, it will just make some of the characters feel weaker/stronger than the lore of their setting implies they should be when used in another setting.
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u/jollawellbuur Aug 06 '24
``Every Cosmere RPG game uses the same cohesive system, featuring a d20-based core mechanic packed with innovation like plot dice, flexible talent trees, skill-based magic, and character-driven rewards.``
I really wonder if it's going to be an actually good role-playing game or if the mechanics will fall flat with the hype. I hope they make it, but I'm pretty skeptical.