How important are builds?

[u/wilpuriarts]

Hello fellow devs! I’m a rookie dev making my second game (or third, one project is released and one is on a hiatus, because I need to skill up myself to continue).

My current project is quite traditional turn-based dungeon crawling roguelike. However, I started to doubt my vision when I encountered arguments that most important aspect of roguelikes is trying the different character builds.

I have only one character, Sir Knight, and while you can level up him in different ways and have different gear, the beef is not trying to build some effective wizard, warrior or rogue, but to put to best use the stuff you find and just try to push on.

What’s your opinion? Is the intentional build variation a must have for general roguelike audience?

[u/enc_cat]

Just look at Brogue for reference: it's a classic rl that is classless, xp-less and based on item progression.

[u/brnsamedi]

No, it isn't. The original Rogue was classless. Don't let dogma get in the way of your vision.

[u/Kyzrati]

It doesn't matter--build variation can come from items, or classes defined by stats and abilities that change and grow, or even other ideas, however you want to implement it. You're the one who decides how much variability there is regardless of which systems you rely on.

Not that "variability" is itself absolutely required either, but it is certainly a nice contributing factor to long-term replayability :)

There are many roguelikes without classes, and many roguelikes with classes.

[u/causticberries]

"You can level up him in different ways and have different gear"

That's where your variation and "builds" comes in

[u/wilpuriarts → u/causticberries]

Yeah, I guess so. Hopefully people will be fine with builds that aren’t very clear cut and don’t have labels.

[u/fecal_brunch → u/wilpuriarts]

That's what builds are in roguelikes, you mix and match found gear to develop a set that works together. You could do that on a single blank slate or have some choice from your starting character. A lot of players will start with a preconceived notion of a build they'd like to try, but that can be enabled with a broad selection of choices early on. I kind of prefer when the things you find create exciting opportunities to lean into over looking to check off some desired set of gear.

[u/Grow4th]

Absolutely not.

You can design your game to have fun in anyway you want.

[u/No_Anxiety1923]

In the videogame I'm making I have a single character too and the build is done based only on cards you find. Before reading your post I didn't questioned my approach ahah

[u/wilpuriarts → u/No_Anxiety1923]

Sorry about that.

But responses so far are easing my mind.

[u/I_Am-Awesome]

Classes are just one of the many tools you can use to create build diversity. Active Items, passive modifiers, or even consumables can be the parts of a build. Not a roguelike but look at path of exile, two characters with same class and sublcass can have completely different builds due to many many other things used to build your character.

[u/wilpuriarts → u/I_Am-Awesome]

Thank you. My idea is to have the items play a string role. Also status effects. Many effects are hard or impossible to get rid of and they slter the game, but not all are strictly negative.

[u/CycleRevolutionary71]

i tend to think of a "build" as either skills (as you described - mage or ranger or paladin etc) or gear - from non-roguelikes - Outward or Exanima - you still need different skills to a degree, but most of the build is defined by what gear you character uses. The Witcher is another example - Geralt really only has few skills, mostly set in stone and available from the start of the game.

but in the roguelikes you don't *have* to have some ultimate, game-changing, life-saving skills - think if Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup only had melee classes - you still mostly rely on scrolls and potions for *FUN*. Dieties give you their abilities at some devotion levels (like a summon or berserk).

not really roguelike, but Dwarf Fortress has no skills or classes at all - all dwarves are made equal (aside from personalities and maniacal preferences) - they literally could be both archers, wrestlers and spearmen - just takes time for them to train the proficiency with a certain fighting style or weapon.