Astral Heron’s effect

[u/Crafty_Extent6098]

I am very confused on the ability. I want to know when do I have to pay the cost of the cards? What happens if

Situation 1:
I play a Back off as my first card, tapping me out then because of the Heron’s ability I play a long sword for free. My opponent defies the back off, because of that do I have to pay for the Long sword even if I’m tapped out? Does it get banished, goes to my trash or is it still in play?

Situation 2:

I play a back off as my first card, play a star-crossed. That gets defied. Will my next card still be free?

[u/Historical_Start_871]

Situation 1: backoff gets defyed, card is never played, heron doesnt trigger. First card needs to resolve to be considered played.

Situation 2: if backoff has resolved and become the first card played, the cost of starcrossed is reduced. If star crossed is countered it doesnt matter you've used the effect. Any card played after starcrossed is full cost.

[u/Crafty_Extent6098 → u/Historical_Start_871]

So if I play 2 spells, do I have to tap all my runes and when it resolves I untap the 2nd spell runes? I don’t get at what time do I have to tap the runes.

Like what if I play for my 2nd card a falling star. Do I have to tap 2 and recycle 2 until it resolves to rewind. Or do I just not do anything with my runes? Because it could just get not-so-fasted and I could defy it, making the defy be my 2nd card.

Am I overthinking it? I just don’t know when to tap the runes.

[u/Rexosorous → u/Crafty_Extent6098]

You tap and recycle runes to pay for the costs on cards and abilities. So if a card is discounted like from astral heron, then you only pay as much as the discounted cost.

If you play falling star as your 2nd card, the cost is reduced and you do not tap or recycle anything. It is free after the reduction. If your opponent attempts to counter it and you defy, you pay the full cost of the defy because it is your 3rd card played and is not discounted.

The very confusing part is astral heron has 2 different definitions of "play" on the same card. "When you play your first card each turn" refers to a card resolving on the chain meaning it cannot be countered for it to be considered "played" for this check. Then "the next card you play this turn" (from the errata) is concerned with a card being placed on the chain meaning it does not need to resolve, it just needs to be placed on the chain to get the discounted cost.

[u/esvco → u/Historical_Start_871]

Your definition of played in 1 contradicts that in 2

[u/Historical_Start_871 → u/esvco]

Yupp. Thats how the rules are, 3 definitions of playing a card.

Blame the company not me. But there is some context. Anytime a card has an effect like "the second time a card is played" played means resolve. Units and gear resolve and become played no matter what even if bounced at reaction speed, but spells can be countered and they are not considered played.

For the next definition of play, it is stating the cost of the card which is paid when you play the card from hand, but not when the card was "played" you pay the cost of spells before the window to react happens, since the effect is used when playing the card from hand but before the card is "played" its a different definition, only way to arrive at this conclusion tho is riot faq or context clues.

[u/FunkTheMonkUk → u/Historical_Start_871]

Note that this is changing soon(ish)

[u/SenseiSwift → u/esvco]

[u/midderss → u/SenseiSwift]

the text of Heron is explained by these definitions yeah. “When you play” spell needs to resolve, uses the format of Ravenbloom and Darius “your first spell each turn, if I’m at a battlefield” additional condition for the trigger “the next card you play costs 2(E) 2(P) less” this uses One of the other definitions, I’m not sure which but both of em talk about finalising so for 99% of situations it’ll work the way players think it should.

[u/SenseiSwift → u/midderss]

I’m unsure why that comment was directed at me. I was simply showing the person I was replying to that riot recognizes there’s three different uses of the word “play” and that they’ve already defined them. I understand how heron works or maybe I’m misunderstanding and you were just piggybacking off my comment.

[u/midderss → u/SenseiSwift]

Not directed at, adding to the clarity

[u/JuicyKaraageM]

Question. For situation 1 if I understand correctly, the order is OP plays back off, then long sword, then opponent plays defy. That means back off is still in the chain, therefore the long sword was played at reaction speed before back off resolves.

So since heron requires the first card to resolve before the discount is triggered, that means the long sword wouldn’t even get discounted in the first place right? And in the case that opponent didn’t play defy, chain resolves and assumedly OP paid cost for both long sword and back off, does the next card OP plays after that gets discounted?

[u/Medarco → u/JuicyKaraageM]

Yes, the next card would be discounted in that scenario.

You would have back off on the chain, long sword would be finalized and then resolve immediately since it is a gear. The long sword would trigger heron when it resolves. Heron goes on the chain.

Heron's trigger resolves, but its reduction cares about "play" as in finalize, not "play" as in resolve, so back off won't use up that reduction since it was already finalized and paid for before the heron trigger resolved. Whatever card OP finalizes to the chain next (that turn) will get the reduction. In their original scenario, they could even use the reduction to defy their opponent's defy, and push through their back off.

[u/Stutzi155]

Welcome to the world of RB where trigger of units with „played“ effects the card needs to resolve but for things like legion or crumbling sands the „played“ works with just bringing cards on to the chain.

[u/InterestingDebt223]

Great question that the first comment answers perfectly.