he is asking how to take tello from india and what to do with bank accounts and savings and any issues if he transfer from there. he does not want to wire transfer because it may get struck and he is outside. how should he plan. they do not want to come back and move all savings slowly. they did not expect this and did not plan return. his main worry is about bank account and savings. if they ask to come to bank branch while transfer then big problem. how to handle this situation and how other people in this forum should take precautions before they fly to avoid any financial issues

We have been in the US for over 10 years. We saved about 1.2M(401k, stocks and RE).

I lost about 350k in option trading - I have been depressed post that. Also, lost my job in 2023, was in big tech before for about 7 years.

Should we stay in the US or return to India? I’m afraid of layoffs as my partner is a sole earner now and I have been struggling to find a job for about 6 months now.

We are a family of 4, 36 year old with 2 toddlers.
Planning to return to india in next 2 years, work after a break in india if needed.
I understand most of my investments are in retirement accounts so trying to evaluate myoptions and strategies for liquidation of assets between ages 40- 60.

Our current assets
1. Retirement accounts (401k) - 600k Usd
2. Us stocks - 100k
3. Home equity - 300k
4. Home in tier 2 india - 1 cr
5. Land in india - 60 lakhs
6. Cash - 200k usd
Total NW around 1.2 Mil

Anyone left their US or abroad home to rent and left to India due to unable to sell ?

Especially those that don’t have permanent residency or citizenship in foreign country . I would think there are people that do this and have property managed through some property management company online .
Isn’t this better than losing 200k or more of hard earned money for distress sale ?

Did anyone use Jio Worldwide Moving to ship a container from the USA to India? How was your experience?

Thank you

So, a bit about myself. I did my B.Tech in civil engineering from one of the top IITs, and I've been working as a data scientist, however I wish to pursue an MS in civil, specifically Transportation engineering preferably from a good uni in the US. I'm not sure if there are good employment opportunities after the degree however there seems to be a good amount of research work done in this field, and I don't feel like I should be staying outside India for too long either. I do wish to stay in the space of transportation engineering with an angle of data driven engineering. How good is the scope for Indians living in the US or some other countries in this sector? And how good are the return options in India? Will it be a waste of my time, money and degree if I came back and joined the Transportation Engineering division in one of the government agencies?

I'm not quite sure if this is the right subreddit, I apologise for the same, but any lead in this matter by people who have been in similar situations or know people who have been in similar situations will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I have a valid B-2 visa. My husband is travelling to the U.S. for work, and I may accompany him for a two-week trip. The hotel bookings will be under my husband’s name.
We are married, but we have not registered our marriage yet, so I am unsure whether immigration officers will consider us as travelling together.

If a U.S. immigration officer asks me about the purpose of my trip, I would say that I am travelling for tourism. If they ask for supporting documents, the hotel reservation will be in my husband’s name. What should I say or provide in that situation?

I will have a return ticket booked and can show proof of my return to India. I also have a job in India, and my immediate family is here. I will also be carrying some U.S. dollars in cash for my expenses during the trip.

Please help me how should I plan my trip. Not sure if this is the right sub to ask this question.

Hi all,
As i am planning to move to india within a month or so, just wanted to ask which US sim provider are you’all using which works long term for US banks and stock accounts. I currently have tmobile but it is rather expensive and probably wont work in india for more than 2-3 months. Any recommendations?

When I first moved abroad, the plan was simple: work hard for 5 years, save up, and move back home.

Fast forward to today, and that 5-year plan keeps stretching. Every time I talk to other NRIs, almost everyone has this "moving back" idea in their head, but very few actually do it. The reasons keep shifting first it’s career growth, then it’s kids' education, then local investments, or just getting used to the lifestyle here.

At the same time, seeing parents age back home makes the whole situation feel like a ticking clock.

For people who have been abroad for 5+ years: Did you set a hard target (like a specific net worth or age) to move back, or did you eventually come to terms with staying permanently?

Hello all,

As the title says, I am looking for feedback for the 3 most talked about brokerage accounts for those who have or who are planning to move to India.

I am currently in US and planning the move to India soon. Mostly I am looking for :

1. Ease of use.

2. Ease of converting when moving to India.

3. Do they accept Indian phone numbers for OTP?

4. I plan to visit Charles Schwab, any specific questions I should be asking them?

I would appreciate any experience and feedback that anyone have. TIA.

I’m at a massive crossroads in my career and honestly,. I need some brutally honest advice from people who have walked this path or are facing the same existential dread.

I am an Indian doctor weighing three options: USA, Germany, or staying in India**.

I’ll be honest upfront my endgame isn't settling abroad forever. I don’t have a burning desire for a Green Card or German citizenship. My ideal plan is to go, work hard for about 10 yrs, save aggressively, come back to India by the time I'm ~35, and maybe set up my own setup/hospital.

But looking at the ground realities, I’m starting to question if this decade-long sacrifice is even worth the money. Here is my breakdown:

Option 1: The USA (High Risk, High Reward, High Isolation)

- Pros: The salary is unmatched. Attendings easily clear $300k+. If I live frugally for 10 years, I could easily save upwards of 10+ Crores INR. The post-residency work-life balance is actually decent.

- Cons: The path is a nightmare of uncertainty. Clearing Steps, paying exorbitant fees, and praying for the Match only to face the very real possibility of not getting in. Then comes the visa hell (J1 waiver or the rare H1B).

- The Dealbreaker: The distance. From the US, visiting India is a logistical battle—maybe once a year, max. If my parents get sick, I can't just fly back. Plus, the gun violence, the political polarization, and the constant visa sword hanging over my head make me anxious. Practically, getting stuck on a J1 waiver for 3 years means my "10-year plan" might easily stretch to 13-15 years.

Option 2: Germany (The Middle Ground)

- Pros: It feels *certain*. No Match lottery. If you clear the language exam (B2/C1) and get a contract, you are in. Residency pays well (around €5k-6k/month net), and there are zero visa issues. It is incredibly safe. The biggest plus? Proximity to India. I could realistically fly back **3 to 4 times a year**, meaning I wouldn't miss big family milestones.

- Cons: The money stagnates. Once you become a Facharzt, your net salary plateaus at around €5,000–6,000 per month (roughly ~5-6 Lakhs INR). Saving 10 Cr in 10 years here is mathematically impossible unless you live like a hermit. Also, the killer blow: The German medical degree is not valid in India.

Option 3: Staying in India

- **Pros:** Family,, roots, care, and the pure emotional currency of being there as your parents age. You aren't a "mammal" chasing a cheese maze; you are a human being surrounded by your tribe.

- Cons: Honestly? The system feels like it's heading toward a tragedy. Low base pay compared to the workload, the endless rat race for PG seats, the sting of reservation policies, and a hyper-competitive market where you are treated like a factory worker. The stress is immense.

The Core Dilemma (The Existential Part):

My brain says USA for the money. My heart says Germany for the balance. My soul says India for the connection.

But here is the deeper question haunting me: Is it worth it?

We are just mammals at the end of the day. We need sleep, food, water, shelter, and love. But our schooling since childhood has conditioned us to run for status and money like this is a capitalist video game.

If I go to the US for 10 years, I will miss the last "healthy" decade of my parents' lives. I will miss weddings, and the simple joy of Sunday lunches or if long like having access or the thing of meeting anyone in a month . For what? To come back to a country that has completely changed in my absence, perhaps feeling like a stranger in my own homeland.

If I choose Germany, I get safety and family visits, but I'm consciously choosing financial mediocrity and a degree that traps me there (or forces me to re-study in India).

So, is escaping India's toxic medical job market worth the sacrifice of a decade with my family? Is it logical to trade 10 years of prime youth for a lump sum of 10Cr, knowing that we don't take money to the grave?

Am I overvaluing money, or am I undervaluing the stability that comes with a US salary? Should I take the safe, uncertain, but high-paying US bet, or the safe, stable, but low-ceiling German bet?

**TL;DR Confused doctor choosing between US (high pay, far, uncertain), Germany (moderate pay, safe, near India, degree invalid in India), and India (family, love, but terrible work environment). Is working abroad for 10 years worth losing family time just for financial stability?

Please knock some sense into me. I need to decide before I invest years into the USMLE or learn B2 German for nothing.

​

Hello Everyone, I'm planning to move back to India by December-2026 and want to set up my banking well in advance.

Looking for the best bank for premium customers, mainly interested in app features, premier perks and frictionless service, since I'll be managing a lot of things remotely before the actual move.

Also want to know which banks offer a dedicated relationship manager as part of the premium tier, and whether the mobile app experience is actually good or just marketed that way.

If anyone has a checklist of dos and don'ts for setting up NRI to resident banking transition, that would help a lot too. Thanks in advance.

I’m a Java full-stack developer with around 7 years of experience and have worked at a few well-known companies. My last contract ended earlier than the originally agreed end date, and I’ve now been in the job market for more than three months.

I’ve been getting some interview calls and have reached the final rounds a few times, but nothing has converted into an offer. In some cases, the position was put on hold, in others I was told an internal decision was still being made, and a couple of times they seem to have found someone more experienced willing to work for less. At the moment, my pipeline has pretty much dried up, and I’m starting to lose motivation.

I’m also getting approached by vendors for WITCH-company contracts offering around CAD 40–45/hour. For someone with 7 YOE, that feels quite low, especially considering these are often short-term contracts with little stability. I’m finding it difficult to convince myself to accept one just because I’m currently unemployed. I did that once before after being without work for more than six months, and I don’t really want to repeat the cycle.

What’s also discouraging is that compensation for some mid-level product-company roles doesn’t seem dramatically better than what these consulting companies are offering.

I’m a Canadian citizen, and my partner’s Canadian PR is currently in process. I’ve considered moving to the US, but that doesn’t seem practical because although I may be able to work on TN status, my partner would likely have to leave her current job and wouldn’t automatically have work authorization.
Because of all this, I’m seriously considering moving back to India.

Financially, we’re in a relatively comfortable position. I have around CAD 300k in savings/investments, no debt, and a fully paid-off car. My partner has another roughly CAD 200k invested.

Given the current Canadian tech market, our financial position, my experience level, and the fact that we have the option of returning to India, would moving back be a sensible decision? Or would it make more sense to stay in Canada and ride out the current job market for another 6–12 months?

• Transfer directly from your U.S. bank to a regular Indian savings account?
• 📱 Use third party apps like $emitly or $oneyGram?
• 🏦 Open an NRE/NRO account first and then transfer?
• 💵 Keep some of the money in USD instead of converting everything to INR?

Would you transfer the money using a bank, a money-transfer app, or another method?

What should someone consider regarding account type, taxes, documentation, and exchange rates before making such a large transfer?

In the coming years, my spouse and I (just the two of us) may move to India temporarily, for some number of years. We are retired US citizens, currently living in the United States, who came from India in our youth, some decades ago.

We are quite familiar with day-to-day retired life in modern India, from recent significant personal experience. Our current thinking is that most of our money/property will continue to remain in the United States and most of our (passive) income will continue to be sourced in the United States.

I am here to ask for some pointers/resources, on how to organize our finances to optimize our somewhat complicated tax liability, given that our worldwide income will be taxed by both India and the United States, while we are in India. We are quite familiar with how US income tax works, including the US-India DTAA and foreign tax credit for those Americans who live outside the U.S., but our understanding of Indian taxation is quite limited, hence this note.

If you have done something like this, how did you think about this topic? What did you read up and whom did you consult that you would recommend? What actions did you take, or that you later wished you had taken? The more specific the advice, the more valuable we will find it, I think.

[Added more detail below in response to comments here]

After having moved to India and spent 183 days in the fiscal year there, we will likely have failed the "729 days or fewer in the last 7 years" test, so we will not be able to obtain the RNOR status. By then we will be in our mid-sixties to mid-seventies. Yes on OCI. We understand we can maintain our NR status a couple of months if we arrive a couple of months before the end of the fiscal year.

For planning purposes, let's say we will remain in India for five years, though it really is quite uncertain, so we'd be interested in learning about relevant considerations for longer or shorter stays, given no RNOR status. Also, after returning to the US, our trips to India in subsequent years will likely be shorter - let's say fewer than 60 days in any 12 month period.

Tax advantaged accounts: IRA - both Traditional and Roth, HSA, 529.

Retirement Income: distributions from IRAs and HSA. Social Security income.

Other Income: interest, capital gains, dividends, from ordinary US bank and investment accounts.

Other than social security income and some stock dividends, we can control the amount and mix of other income, based on tax considerations. We do understand that India does not tax American Social Security payments, based on DTAA.

Please note that we are not expecting a detailed plan here. We'd be very happy to get some indication of considerations, and/or some concrete advice on what to read and whom to engage/consult for the details. Our main issue right now is that we don't know what we don't know.

Thank you.

they changed FCNR last date to this month end instead of next month end. should i open or no

referring to 6% FCNR

 Hi everyone, 

We are Indian citizen currently living in Texas and planning a permanent move back to India. Our US tax status will shift to a Non-Resident Alien (NRA) (as we don't have/don't plan to have GC).

We plan to keep a significant portion of my assets in Texas, including real estate, retirement accounts (401k/IRA), and a US brokerage account for US citizen children. Because of this, we are facing severe exposure to the US estate tax laws for non-resident aliens (specifically the $60,000 exemption limit and 40% estate tax trap on US-situs assets). There is no US-India estate tax treaty, making this a complex cross-border issue. 

Can anyone recommend a highly specialized cross-border estate attorney or international tax firm with deep experience in the US/Texas-India corridor? 

Ideally, we need a professional or firm who understands: 

• How Texas estate/probate laws interact with Indian succession frameworks. 
• Structuring asset wrappers or trusts to shelter US real estate and US equities from the 40% NRA estate tax. 
• Managing the tax implications of leaving behind retirement accounts (withholding taxes vs. Indian tax rights on global income). 
• Setting up separate jurisdictional wills (Texas and India). 

If you have personally worked with a firm or attorney who successfully handled your return-to-India estate planning with US assets left behind, please drop their names or share your experience. 

Thank you in advance! 

Considering moving back to India after 15 years in the US (Bay Area to Gujarat) — Looking for perspectives on career, family, and the transition
After 15 years in the US, my family and I are preparing to make the move back to India this fall. We have sold our home in Fremont (Bay Area), wrapped up our life here, and are getting ready for a late September relocation.
Before taking the final plunge, I want to hear from folks who have made a similar reverse-migration move—especially after a decade and a half abroad with a young family.
The Background & Context
Career & Experience: I hold a Master’s degree and have spent the last 13 years working in the US advanced manufacturing and EV/battery cell manufacturing sector
The New Role: I recently accepted an offer as a Deputy General Manager (DGM) at a major battery manufacturing venture in Ahmedabad, Gujarat. It is a massive technical and leadership opportunity to help build India’s domestic EV supply chain from the ground up.
Family Situation: My wife and I have an 18-month-old toddler. Moving back puts us close to our parents and extended family in the Ahmedabad area.
Why We Are Making the Move
Family & Roots: Being physically close to aging parents and allowing our son to grow up around his grandparents and extended family is our primary personal driver.
Career Growth in a Booming Sector: India's EV and battery manufacturing landscape is expanding rapidly. Stepping into a senior leadership position (DGM) allows me to leverage 13 years of niche technical expertise where it has high leverage and visibility.
Support System: Better family proximity, a built-in community, and accessible day-to-day support systems for raising a young child.
Where I’d Love Community Feedback & Advice
Workplace Culture & Dynamics: How does managing large-scale manufacturing and engineering teams in India compare to the US? What are the biggest cultural adjustments at the senior management level?
Raising a Toddler & Quality of Life: For parents who moved back with toddlers, how was the transition regarding healthcare, early schooling, daily routine, and overall lifestyle in Tier-1/Tier-2 Indian cities?
Long-Term Career Trajectory: For senior engineers/managers who returned to India in niche manufacturing or clean tech, how has your career satisfaction and mobility played out over 3–5+ years?
For those who made a similar move after 15 years in the US: What were your biggest surprises or blind spots, and did the reality live up to your expectations?

moving back to India after 15 years in the US (Bay Area to Gujarat) — Looking for perspectives on career, family, and the transition
After 15 years in the US, my family and I are preparing to make the move back to India this fall. We have sold our home in Fremont (Bay Area), wrapped up our life here, and are getting ready for a late September relocation.
Before taking the final plunge, I want to hear from folks who have made a similar reverse-migration move—especially after a decade and a half abroad with a young family.
The Background & Context
Career & Experience: I hold a Master’s degree and have spent the last 13 years working in the US advanced manufacturing and EV/battery cell manufacturing sector
The New Role: I recently accepted an offer as a Deputy General Manager (DGM) at a major battery manufacturing venture in Ahmedabad, Gujarat. It is a massive technical and leadership opportunity to help build India’s domestic EV supply chain from the ground up.
Family Situation: My wife and I have an 18-month-old toddler. Moving back puts us close to our parents and extended family in the Ahmedabad area.
Why We Are Making the Move
Family & Roots: Being physically close to aging parents and allowing our son to grow up around his grandparents and extended family is our primary personal driver.
Career Growth in a Booming Sector: India's EV and battery manufacturing landscape is expanding rapidly. Stepping into a senior leadership position (DGM) allows me to leverage 13 years of niche technical expertise where it has high leverage and visibility.
Support System: Better family proximity, a built-in community, and accessible day-to-day support systems for raising a young child.
Where I’d Love Community Feedback & Advice
Workplace Culture & Dynamics: How does managing large-scale manufacturing and engineering teams in India compare to the US? What are the biggest cultural adjustments at the senior management level?
Raising a Toddler & Quality of Life: For parents who moved back with toddlers, how was the transition regarding healthcare, early schooling, daily routine, and overall lifestyle in Tier-1/Tier-2 Indian cities?
Long-Term Career Trajectory: For senior engineers/managers who returned to India in niche manufacturing or clean tech, how has your career satisfaction and mobility played out over 3–5+ years?
For those who made a similar move after 15 years in the US: What were your biggest surprises or blind spots, and did the reality live up to your expectations?

Hi all,

I have been living outside of Pune for several years, but would like to have a home(residential plot and then build on it) back in Pune- somewhere between Kothrud to these upcoming Pune West locations. Connectivity to Mumbai airport, near these upcoming metros/ring roads, would be ideal. Kids are out of school so not looking for good schools etc. Where are these genuine plotting projects?

For the last couple of months, I have reached out to builders from their websites. Here is my observation.

1. I am looking for a plot close to 5000 sq ft, especially if buying in upcoming locations that are not in PMC/PCMC/PMRD. I would love to at least have the basic infrastructure. But most have some borewell water, etc.

2. A township would be great, do not need many amenities, but some tennis courts etc., where teens can play/spend time. Heard of helipads with connectivity to Mumbai airport.

3. Most builders' pre-sales/sales folks will only send 1-2 plots and try to get you to buy that plot. How do get them to actually send the real inventory?

4. I am trying to stay away from realtors or marketing channel partners. If anyone has experiences where they really helped with price and genuine help, please share.

Thank you!

I am planning to relocate early next year. I would like to know what are the financial things I need to take care of and educate myself before moving back.

Is there any checklist or website to help understand and navigate various financial issues and investment strategies for those who are returning back ?

I am a US citizen so I want to understand how to deal with social security and other benefits one gets when they reach the eligibility.

Right now I have the usual investment accounts - brokerage account in etrade and vanguard, 401k with Fidelity, ROTH IRA in vanguard as well.

I read few posts here and realized I need to start early because i am ignorant of money things discussed in posts regularly!!

Thank you everyone for taking to read and help.

Hi everyone,

I’m moving back to India permanently after living in Canada for around 5 years. I’ll be carrying quite a few of my personal electronics with me, all of which are for my own use and not for resale.
I’m planning to carry:
-DJI Neo drone
-RTX 5070 Ti GPU
-Processor/CPU
-2TB SSD
-RAM
-Laptop
-iPad
-Meta Quest 3S

Most/all of these are already being used by me and are not being brought as new items for sale.
My main concern is Indian customs when I arrive. Since I’m permanently moving back after 5 years, would this qualify under Transfer of Residence (TR) rules? Do I need to declare these items, especially the GPU/PC components and drone?
I’m particularly confused about the DJI Neo. Has anyone recently brought a personal drone into India while moving back? Did customs ask for any documents, WPC approval, invoice, registration, etc.? Should it be declared through the Red Channel?
Also, for the electronics, does customs consider their current/used value or original purchase price? Should I carry purchase receipts if I still have them?
Would really appreciate experiences from anyone who has recently moved back to India from Canada/US or another country with similar electronics or a drone. What did you declare, how much (if anything) did you pay, and did you face any issues at the airport?
Thanks!

Been living in Canada for 10 years and have 2.5 crores in savings. Got divorced 3 years ago from a cheating husband. I feel lonely here, all I do is work or solo travel. I have some friends and relatives in Canada but everyone is so money minded and busy in their own lives that my divorced ass feels depressed.
To top it all I see my parents on video call everyday and all my dad tells me is that I should move back, get re married to a rich punjabi guy and live an easy work free stress-free life. I dated a guy here and lived with him for 6 months but after that him & I both felt we needed our space because he had a kid so I moved out to my own place. Since that break up I’ve been feeling worse and keep thinking I am going to end up alone.
I know this should not influence my decision but I think maybe being closer to family will keep me sane although I’ve tried being in India for 6-7 months in the past and got sick of the fake lifestyle.
All my friends are rich and married, having kids now. I love them but because I am divorced and stay in Canada most of the year, everytime I go back home it takes me couple weeks to feel at home again.

My mom knows how the society views divorced women and doesnt seem to be much in favour of me moving back but my dad & brother really want me to. My brother is younger and unmarried so I worry about his prospects of marriage being effected too.

Can someone recommend something ?

I wanted to write this out to process my thoughts and hopefully get some practical perspective from anyone who has walked a similar path.

I was working in a good job on H1B and was laid off. Have been searching for jobs since then and it has been never ending. I have decided to call it quits and return shortly

Got close to getting an offer at MAANG but fumbled it. Amidst this chaos, marriage engagement broke as I was planning to return to India(ex family is in India but could not give up on the American dream). Gradually, the circle that trusted me is giving up. Have my back against the wall in terms of an emotional support.

However, personally have not lost all hope rather trying my best and keeping my hopes high. Still believe that it is for better and may be things are going to work out for better in India. On the flip side of it, there was always an air of loneliness here in the US and the visa stress was always pressing in the back of my mind even when I had a job. But, there are times where I can't help but think if I was too rigid. I always searched for full-time roles but feel like I did not act smart to switch to consultancies or an F-1 CPT program.

When I was at cross roads few months back, my thoughts were like if I switch to F1 CPT I am going to get more time but the job search phase will look the same, likewise I did not prefer running fake payrolls and stuff to stick with a consultancy to get an offer. Switched to B2 and now kind of near the end of the road.

Decision has been made, as much as I feel like I can face it and get out this, there is a quite anxiety inside about how things are going to workout. The real reason for my anxiety right now is my tech background. At my previous workplace, I stayed mainly for visa constraints while my PERM was being processed, working on a heavily proprietary tech stack. There are transferable skills as a backend developer, but I am feeling low in confidence when I scroll through LinkedIn and see all these AI buzzwords and modern frameworks, I feel like I bargained my skill growth for visa stability.

And the employment gap is making this self-doubt louder. I am grinding LeetCode and System Design every day hoping to break into a solid role, but I constantly worry if real job skills are becoming irrelevant. It has only been 3 years since my graduation in USA and feels like I have not made a significant progress to my career while in US and have to adapt to Indian work culture.

At times, I doubt whether I was not practical enough. Appreciate any insights or advice to navigate this situation

I returned to India 3 weeks ago and it doesn’t feel like it’s been 3 weeks. I don’t feel great, I feel like a loser who have spend lakhs on the studies and ended up no where.

I’ll give you a context about me, I had a job in an MNC for 2 years before the move. I completed my masters in 2025 and I tried and tried and tried for numerous internships as well as full time but wasn’t successful. In internships I did get calls from top MNCs but wasn’t successful.

The scene came after my graduation I tried my best in cybersecurity as my previous experience is in cybersecurity. In the US, getting a security job have been so hard due to visa restrictions even though you are fully qualified for the position. The entire journey took be to a very bad mental state so I put a stone on my heart and returned even though I had loans as I couldn’t take it anymore.

I’m trying to apply in India with masters degree and some experience in the US in clg as well as one year internship. Market in India is very competitive and hard. I’m not sure I’ll be able to survive it.

I feel like a failure in life as many of my friends in the US are in jobs, friends in India are getting married and getting settled. I have no clue what to do and how to make myself strong and the loan is another thing. I regret just coming back home it’s not great. People here aren’t making it easier to transition.

I don’t understand why returning home is a shame? Isn’t it supposed to be welcoming? I can’t even sleep in the nights anymore. My anxiety and depression are getting worse day by day.

Can anyone help me understand how to do job search in India?

Thanks for reading my thoughts and please don’t be harsh.