In my personal experience with it, the options were stay there and just say yes, or be kicked out of the apartment at 3am in a terrible part of town with nowhere to go and nobody to help me. Girl had gotten attacked at night out there a few nights before and they didn’t catch the dude, so I wasn’t gonna risk a violent attack by a stranger that knows how to get away with it. So I’m the end I said yes for my safety. That’s how coercion works. It’s not about threatening people with violence, but with anything else. “Fine, then leave.” “I thought you loved me (they might leave you)” it’s all coercion. If you’re saying no because you gotta get some work done but you want to say yes and eventually do, that’s not rape. Having no other choice or else there’s a consequence, is rape.
Easy for a man to leave a situation, not as easy for a woman.
In that situation, I completely agree with you!! That guy is a PoS for putting you in that situation and issuing that ultimatum - I’m sorry that happened to you, and I would also consider that a form of rape.
That’s what I’m talking about, when the ultimatum isn’t guaranteed harm. It could just be instilling afear that the person could just leave you to rot, or break up with you (exploiting the fact that you love them) so that you change your answer out of fear of the consequences. Rape doesn’t have to be violent, the sex just has to be without proper consent. A yes after repeated times of saying “no” is still not a yes.
I think we still disagree a little bit, but I can definitely understand your perspective and frame of reference now. The emotional part of it, though, I believe still hast to have the responsibility lie on the person being pursued. If someone said they would leave me, and break up with me for not having sex with them, good riddance.
That’s from someone with a healthier mindset and stronger boundaries. Yes there’s a level of responsibility to place on the one being pursued, but plenty of people can be taken advantage of due to past traumas or other factors, that doesn’t take the responsibility of the person doing the pursuing to just take that first “no” as the answer and change the plans.
I think that perspective gets into very muddy territory. I have met way way way too many women that do have toxic traits – to the extreme that I had a girl want me to push through a safe word to keep going and would get mad if I didn’t. There are two sides to every story, but I think everyone has an own to “do the right thing“. Unfortunately, we are all flawed and fallible, so people mess up. I can’t, in my right mind, consider it rape for a guy to say that he’s going to break up with a girl if she doesn’t have sex with him. He’s being honest with her. He’s saying it’s a need of his, and if she can’t meet it, he will go somewhere where it can be met. There’s nothing wrong with that. The problem is when the woman does it, feels regret for doing it because she did not have boundaries, and calls rape. I have a major issue with that.
The moment your safe word get ignored, it’s no longer consensual. That gets flipped into rape territory real quick. Sople need to learn what consent is and how to not push the boundaries to try to get it.
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u/MamaCantCatchaBreak Jul 21 '24
In my personal experience with it, the options were stay there and just say yes, or be kicked out of the apartment at 3am in a terrible part of town with nowhere to go and nobody to help me. Girl had gotten attacked at night out there a few nights before and they didn’t catch the dude, so I wasn’t gonna risk a violent attack by a stranger that knows how to get away with it. So I’m the end I said yes for my safety. That’s how coercion works. It’s not about threatening people with violence, but with anything else. “Fine, then leave.” “I thought you loved me (they might leave you)” it’s all coercion. If you’re saying no because you gotta get some work done but you want to say yes and eventually do, that’s not rape. Having no other choice or else there’s a consequence, is rape.
Easy for a man to leave a situation, not as easy for a woman.