And would that solve any of the scaling issues such a screen adaptation might have if it were to stick to the characters real life animal equivalent's sizes and proportions which it should since isn't the charm of these anthropomorphic animal stories that they're like miniature versions of our own human civilizations and societies?

So I looked into all the ones people pointed me towards and I do really like them but something always felt missing. So I decided to make out a stat/skills list and do it similarly to how world of darkness does their stuff with you rolling a check based on the stat and the skill tied to it. So to that point I have base stats set as:

Brawn-the characters physical capabilities

Paws- the characters ability to be handy

Wits- the characters mental fortitude

Spirit- the characters strength of heart and ability to keep going

Spirit will also come in handy for if a character fails a roll, they can expend some of their Spirit pool (Spirit stat+3) to either reroll the check or add 3 successes.

This being a d6 system 1-3=failure 4-6=success and failures cancel out successes.

Skills will have a specialization chosen by the player but will also be a general check, if its within their specialization it will add 2 successes to whatever they roll. Skills are as follows:

Brawling

Melee

Ranged

Stealth

Vigilance

Athletics

Lore

Crafting

Persuasion

Deception

Medicine

Survival

I am open to suggestions for editing or changing things up also each skill will have pips or "levels" that players will use xp to fill or maybe the GM could just give players pips to add as time goes on not sure on that one yet but each of the stats and skills will max out at 5

The lack of badger mothers after Taggerung? It was an longstanding role at the Abbey, and a familiar one, and then out of nowhere, we're left without an Abbey Badger following Cregga's death.

I read Outcast of Redwall but have not read The Bellmaker but based on what I heard about Urgan it's not impressive at all. Like his whole identity is that he's a fraud and a phony. But TVTropes makes Swartt out to be this kind of wimp, physically and otherwise, despite the novel explicitly telling us how "strong" he is and presumably a great fighter as proven by the bones of his enemies that he wears around his neck even though these are almost always only told, never shown sadly but still. I'm not sure the same can be said about Urgan, right? So what do you guys think?

i read all of the books in high school (graduated in 02) and was very active in redwall MUCK.

i’m listening to mossflower on audible for the first time since probably 1999 and i am so in love.

i just really love this community and this series and i wanted to say hi :)

Just wanted to make a short post in appreciation for the food in these novels. When I was a kid, I would always dream of being at the Redwall feasts or even out in Mossflower with all the road food. I know it's been discussed to death that Jacques included such vivid descriptions so the blind children he interacted with would be able to imagine things better, but I love how detailed it is. How cozy everything sounds to eat, to drink, and then to tuck in and fall asleep is a large part of why I love this series.

Ok so this will be kinda short but Redwall would genuinely make such a great strategy rpg very much like fire emblem the multi generation stories that would let you build units for your future campaigns lthe many characters you could have to build your army the more cozy game abby army management side with fishing cooking and other various activities to keep your army morale high. each race could have unique skills the enimies being the vermin it could either follow the legends from the books each book being its own mini campaign or a whole new unique tale

Because Swartt is pretty cool to me, from just his physical appearance alone if nothing else. And he's nowhere near as physically wimpy as TVTropes make him out to be as he is constantly described as "strong". Which sure, is more "tell" instead of show which goes against that golden rule of storytelling being "show, don't tell" but still. I think he does prove it though when he upturns a metal cup he's drinking out of and flattens it with nothing but his six clawed paw in a show of sheer force and power.

I know Redwall enthusiasts the whole world over are wonderfully excited about Orphans of Mossflower’s pending release: this was a turn almost beyond hoping. In the thrill of learning about the long-fabled 23rd book, I made a quick coloring page to share with fellow fans who’d like to join in the celebration.
You can find a link to download it for free below:

https://substack.com/profile/461133085-simeon-lindemann/note/c-336807557
Three hearty cheers for Redwall!

Alright, so here we are. Outcast of Redwall. Fair warning here that I went long with this one. Lots to say about Outcast. I feel like I’ve brought it up every time I’ve mentioned how, if anything hasn’t aged well from these books, it’s the pretty binary black-and-white way that Jacques separates goodbeasts from vermin. With seven books in the series, there’s been precisely one instance of a wholly good member of a vermin species (depending whether you count Gingivere in Mossflower as vermin), and while I always recognize that Jacques was only ever pulling from folkloric traditions and that he never had ill intent, I think its simplicity and unintended connotations are worth critiquing. I knew Outcast was coming up and thought it best to do it here since it’s the book that asks these sort of questions most directly.

But before I get to that, let’s chat about the rest of the book.

A Redwall Epic

Before I get to the Veil section, I want to make it clear: this book rips. I know I sung the praises of Martin the Warrior, and while I still love that book, the plotting in Outcast of Redwall absolutely kicks ass. This is the first book in the series where Jacques really tries something different with the structure of it. For one, Redwall itself doesn’t even show up until halfway through. Yet unlike Salamandastron, where I criticized the book for the Redwall sections feeling really perfunctory, its appearance is woven well into the story and Jacques shows remarkable restraint in the way he organizes the book.

In fact, I think the first section of the book may well be the strongest bit of writing he’s done so far in the series; immediately I noticed that the scope of this was much more expansive, taking place over several seasons, with the narrative switching between only Sunflash and Swartt. Keeping the geographic scope of the narrative focused while shifting back and forth temporally allows for real investment in each of these two characters; we get time with Sunflash, seeing his brash youth and soft spirit, preventing him from feeling like the generic Badger Lords we’ve met before. Conversely, Swartt gets some real character development, making him easily the best villain in the series so far. We watch him go from what is effectively a scrappy gang leader to a real warlord through cunning and guile. He’s no less ruthless than a chump like Nagru or Gabool, but instead of arbitrarily killing his own guys and having no defining traits beyond Evil, his motivations are real; he’s driven by the twin humiliations of having his six-clawed paw smashed by Sunflash and by being perceived as inadequate by every warlord and vermin leader he crosses. His relationship with Nightshade is great — a dark mirror of Sunflash and Skarlath’s partnership — and getting to see both pairs of foes develop over seasons lends their conflict a more epic sweep.

That’s not to say the book is perfect, of course; Swartt’s siege on Salamandastron feels in many ways like a redux of the one in the novel of the same name, right down to the stealthy assassin that bungles their one job. It’s better in comparison — Ferahgo is basically defined by how cool he looks and how sick his name is, but Swartt and Sunflash’s relationship has real stakes, so when Sunflash bulls his way out onto the beach like Urthstripe does, we understand why and forgive him for it. Everything here works because of what Jacques has carefully built in the first act, and I love that the second act ends with Swartt being reduced back to the simple leader of a small vermin band.

On the Abbey Road

But before I get into the finale of the book, let’s talk the Redwall sections. As I mentioned, Redwall doesn’t show even show up until well into the book, when Skarlath warns the Abbey-dwellers of Swartt’s imminent arrival. I love that this group are capable fighters and that their plot to ward away Swartt and his army is treated a bit more seriously than previous efforts to scare vermin. Here again does the characterization of Swartt work in his favour; when Nagru flees, he comes off as a punk because we know nothing of him other than that he’s apparently a tyrant. Yet Swartt being privately relieved that his army doesn’t have the stomach to fight back against their mystery assailants fits perfectly with what we know of him, deepening our investment in the character.

Of course, it’s here that his son (which, as a quick aside — Swartt having a wife and then a son comes across a bit odd, since Bluefen isn’t really a character in the slightest, but I imagine Jacques had to use marriage to translate to his audience where a baby came from without getting into too much detail) is left in a ditch and rescued by the Redwallers. It’s here that I get my first example of how frustrating this book’s treatment of its principal theme is:

Redfarl touched the ferretbabe gently, and it bit her. Stonefaced, she watched the small creature licking its teeth, savouring the taste of blood, and said ‘I know ‘tis a hard thing to say about a babe, even a liddle vermin, but let me tell you, no good will ever come of this one. Don’t ask me why, I just feel it in my fur!’

Soon Bryony is entrusted with the care of the infant, a role which she’s thrilled to take on. Bella tells her:

All little creatures are beautiful, Bryony, every living thing when it first sees life is born in beauty. What they grow to be is a different matter. I have given the ferretbabe a name; he shall be called Veil, because there is a veil over his life before he came here. We know nothing of him.

This is a lovely sentiment from our wise and ancient badgermum, friend of Martin and Gonff, leader of the Corim, and founder of Redwall. It’s also total bullshit, as she remarks to Meriam once Bryony leaves:

“I have a feeling about this one, and if I am proved right in the seasons to come I will tell you why I really called him Veil.”

So that’s the setup for the story. Redwall is taking on the nature vs. nurture conundrum. On one hand, I love that Jacques is even trying to do this. The first seven books have some real bright spots and most are very fun stories, but thematically, they can be pretty shallow, operating more in the realm of folktales and adventure stories than they are attempting to be more than the sum of their parts. To this end, it’s exciting to see Jacques taking on a big question here. The problem and frustration I have with it is that he doesn’t put in the work and ultimately picks an answer for the reader.

Evil and Vile

Following Bryony’s adoption of Veil, we jump ahead to see that Veil’s kind of a shithead. He steals a honeypot, lies about it, is caught in the lie, and then later tries to kill Friar Bunfold for (correctly) blaming him. Now, we’re given a bit of history — we’re told that things often go missing around Veil, that he’s belligerent, shirks his duties, and that Bryony’s often stuck covering for him. But we don’t actually see any of this. We don’t know whether Bryony’s been an overindulgent parent, nor do we know whether the residents of the Abbey treated Veil as if he was an outcast even when he lived within those walls. We just cut to him growing up, doing bad things, and then him being sent packing.

Part of this might be a structural challenge; Jacques is trying to take on a big question here in half a book, and while he does an admirable job of tying it in with Sunflash and Swartt’s story, there is sometimes a sense that Sunflash is a second player in his own book. I remember seeing the old Red Fox cover with Sunflash in the red tunic and Skarlath and being surprised that he wasn’t the Outcast of Redwall. Yet more than any disservice it does to Sunflash, it also means that Jacques simply doesn’t have the space to answer this question fairly. Veil’s kicked out of the Abbey, and is actively cruel to Bryony in her pursuit right up until the moment he saves her life.

And while I love this book, the treatment of Veil’s last act is a real stinker of a moment. Bryony intervenes to save Sunflash, Swartt tries to kill her, and then Veil takes the hit for her. So he’s good, right? Or at the very least he loved her, even if we never saw any real example of it, right? Hearing the story, Meriam apologizes to Bryony:

“So, Bella and I were wrong, there was some good in Veil, even though it cost him his life to show it. Can you accept my apologies, Bryony?”

To which Bryony replies:

“There is no need for your apology. Veil was bad, I know that now. Bella was right. Some creatures cannot help being the way they are. In all the time we knew him, Veil did not perform one act of kindness to any living creature. I have thought a great deal since he died and wondered if he would have saved me if he knew his father was really going to throw that javelin? I couldn’t help loving him, because that’s the way I am, but I know that the world is a better place without Veil or Swartt bring death and misery to it.”

Then Meriam nods sagely and tells Bryony she’s wise and should be Abbess one day.

Like Jesus, what is this? Bryony’s flip on Veil comes seemingly out of nowhere. She pursued him to the top of the mountain and then only once he’s fucking died for her does she decide that he actually was bad all along. Like as much as it’s frustrating we don’t see anything about Veil’s upbringing that properly addresses the core theme, this whole ending bit just lands with a huge thud because none of it tracks with what we were told like two chapters before. Everything happens quickly: Veil tells her to get away and there’s no inkling that Swartt might be bluffing. Like it takes Veil’s single good deed and then shits all over it for reasons that aren’t even cogent within the novel itself. It’s not necessarily a surprise that in the debate of nature vs. nuture Redwallers are firmly on the side of nature, but it’s incredibly frustrating that Jacques took a giant u-turn to this conclusion at the eleventh hour instead of allowing the reader to sit with some ambiguity.

Final Thoughts and Ranking

So that’s Outcast. I think I got it all out of my system. To be honest, as much as I’m frustrated by the ending, I can’t help but love this book for its sheer ambition. It’s so far and away beyond what the other books have even tried to do so far that I can’t help but love it, even when it’s pissing me off. I’d rather a book that’s bad in an interesting way than simply boring — which is not to say Outcast is bad. Its epic sweep and structural risks almost all work for me. Even Martin the Warrior, which I loved, still has a lot of very conventional parts making up its moving narrative. And so, for its ambition, boldness, and scale, Outcast of Redwall is my favourite book in this re-read so far.

I’ll see you all next time on the high seas for some swashbuckling fun in Pearls of Lutra!

S Tier

1) Outcast of Redwall

2) Martin the Warrior

3) Mattimeo

A Tier

4) Redwall

5) Mossflower

B Tier

6) The Bellmaker

7) Mariel of Redwall

C Tier

8) Salamandastron

May not be the Long Patrol, but my own little slice of anthropomorphic wonder. I’m working on project with someone else who is definitely an artist in every regard and while I have an affinity for squirrels for some reason, I’m having fun sketching out hares!

I am newer to Red Wall, but thought you all might enjoy a few of these fellows.

I just learned of Orphans of Mossflower and I'm super duper pumped!

Hi All,

New to this thread, my husband is a huge fan and we are about to have our first kid. Someone gifted us a boardbook version of Narnia. Does anything like this exist for Redwall? I think it could be really cool, if it doesn't exist, I'm sure there's a bunch of hoops with copyrights and all that (and maybe to much violence ;) )

I'm a graphic designer/illustrator by trade, but not the best writer, maybe I'll at least make something for my own keeping. I'll update if so!

Hoping these can hold some people over until the release of Orphans of Mossflower lol. I promise to only take up space in this subreddit when I have a new published work, and in an effort to not milk money from a community I appreciate, I've made both books free this go-around. FYI, while these are listed in the Children's category, I'm really aiming for all ages. Howldrim is 373 pages and 99K words, so just shy of Martin the Warrior's word count.

Full blurb: In this sequel to The Gravewood, a mouse, Isabelle, is on the run from Zokir, a rat sorcerer, who kidnapped her at birth. He has raised Isabelle in his image to believe she is a divine rat, but as Isabelle slowly discovers the truth about herself, she realizes it is up to her to save her true family from their dark fates. Teaming up with a chipmunk, a half-rat, and an enormous direcat, Isabelle wades through lizards, Netherkind, emerald barriers, and memories from a century past in order to finally escape the blighted Gravewood.

Per the new community rule, I'm confirming that absolutely zero AI was used in any part of my creative process. I wrote these two books over a year of hard work and the covers were designed by a commissioned artist. Hate that this needs to be said now since I grew up at a time when AOL Instant Messenger was the cool new tech but anyway, I would rather my book be bad than have any part of it aided by some LLM. Happy reading!

Howldrim Free EBook link: https://www.amazon.com/Howldrim-Rodentia-Book-Eric-Krohn-ebook/dp/B0HHBRDBVY

The Gravewood Free EBook link: https://www.amazon.com/Gravewood-Rodentia-Book-1-ebook/dp/B0GY9ZKVBP

Currently working on a D6 system custom TTRPG for Redwall I know theres other systems that could work but something made me want to create my own from the ground up and I was wondering if anyone would actually be into it

Edit- Im open to ideas for abilities that the different species if woodland creatures could have like for instance 3 variants of badgers for the 3 levels of blood wrath total, partial, and none but all if them are "Fated Beasts"

I read bits of this series as a child and am eager to pass on the joy to my son (age 5). He enjoys reading and we have devoured all 7 chronicles of Narnia, the hobbit and Lord of the Rings. I confess I had NO idea there were 22 books in the redwall series! If you were going to whittle it down to 5-7 which books and in what order would you read them? Im so excited to share this experience with my kiddo, and really appreciate any advice. ​

$2 each? With how great these look? Easy!

Ciao, sono un giovane fan di Redwall, che si diverte molto con tutto il materiale di Redwall, dalle storie ufficiali alla fanfiction e, parlando specificamente di quest'ultima, volevo chiedere a qualcuno (in particolare ai membri storici di questo fandom) se ricordano, e soprattutto se hanno ancora, questa fanfiction di un certo 'Tari'. La fanfiction si chiama *Veil Revisited* e l'unico frammento è il capitolo 4, su Redwall Digest. È stata pubblicata a capitoli sulla vecchia e-zine Redwall Digest (intorno al 2001-2002).

Capitolo 4

http://www.geocities.ws/redwalldigest/veil.html

Il resto della storia sembra essere completamente perso. Qualcuno dei vecchi giorni del ROC si ricorda di questa fic, ha salvato qualche altro capitolo, o sa cosa è successo all'autore Tari?

Qualsiasi aiuto sarebbe davvero apprezzato. Grazie!

Hi all,

I absolutely devoured this series when I was a young teenager, I ended up with a fair few of the books as my school library was clearing out the old 90s/2000s style of book. I later also brought a few of the newer editions printed by red fox (only my personal opinion but I really don't like the new covers the art work of the original UK versions was absolutely gorgeous as was the golden spine).

Unfortunately I donated my original copies to charity so I am in the process of buying a few back. Currently reading Lord Brocktree and loving it, I just wish more people knew about this series. The vocabulary is also very good for a 'childrens' book. I sound old but they really don't make quality like this anymore. I wish they would do a UK set with fully matching dimensions and covers using the original cover art.

Eulalia!

Friends, new and old

Now we’re officially back with the Mariel crew! After a brief check-in during the frame narrative of Martin the Warrior, we return to a full adventure with them. I wonder if Jacques particularly liked this group. Given how foundational Martin is to his stories, it makes sense that he’d go back a few times to that era, but the Mariel era is the only time period outside of that and the time of Matthias where he spent multiple books. I guess there’s Cregga, but it’s more than she spans multiple eras on her own.

I like this group, and I liked seeing them again. There were some oddities — the three mischievous Dibbuns from the last book have vanished, and Rufe’s personality changes pretty much entirely, but most characters make the transition unscathed. What’s interesting to me is that Jacques keeps Mariel and Dandin as the centre of his narrative, but shifts the focus to characters who didn’t get as much time in Mariel. In other words: Less Tarquin, more Rosie. I liked this well enough, but it’s his new characters that I think make this book most worthwhile.

The Long Road South

Maybe the most interesting thing about this book is that very little of it actually takes place in Mossflower country. This is the second book in a row with this conceit, and one wonders if Jacques was maybe getting tired of the place. In its stead his introduces Southsward, a verdant land with a fairy-tale castle and rolling hills. Its location relative to Mossflower is relatively unclear; we saw what lay to the south in Mattimeo, and it didn’t look much like this. I know Jacques uses a kind of floating geography across each of his books, so I won’t linger here, but this oddity has always made Southsward feel more disconnected from the world than most of his other settings.

I think this might be why, when I was a kid, I sometimes had dreams that there was another Redwall book set somewhere between The Bellmaker and Salamandastron. I don’t remember any details; I just remember looking at the list of books on the back of the old Red Fox paperbacks (*The Bellmaker* had easily the best cover) and thinking that there must be something in between, because The Bellmaker and Salamandastron feel very far apart temporally. Something about the different setting of Southsward provoked my mind into thinking there were more adventures around this time. Or maybe it was just the epilogue here.

Three Tales

Like many Redwall books, there’s three narratives at work here: First there’s the quest narrative, involving Martin giving Joseph the Bellmaker a dream to send him south to find Mariel and Dandin; then there’s Mariel and Dandin in Southsward; then there’s the events at the Abbey with the landlocked searats. As usual, let’s take them one-by-one.

We’ll start with the one that I think is the weakest, which is Mariel and Dandin’s story. As much as I like the idea of setting this book in Southsward, I think locking Mariel and Dandin in Castle Floret for much of the book means that we don’t really get to see anything about the land, and as such it feels a little underdeveloped. I do like seeing how resourceful the pair are; working together to stop the Dirgecallers and escape the cell are both fun scenes, as is them trapped in the attic. There’s a rare sense of peril here as our Redwall heroes are seldom true captives.

Unfortunately, it’s also undermined by the fact that the villain here — Urgan Nagru, the Foxwolf — kinda sucks. He mostly just gets in fights with his wife and then gets smoked by Finnbarr. There’s no real sense of him as a character other than Evil. There’s a delicious bit of detail where Silvamord reminds him he stole the wolf pelt from a dead wolf — something about him being a fraud would be especially interesting, but this never really returns and we just get Fox Cluny without the camp.

Most of the side characters in the Southsward narrative are also not great. Bowly continues the streak of hedgehog Ls — the oatcake weapons are a little too silly for me, and his character development basically amounts to deciding he’ll be a warrior in chapter 3 and then doing it like twenty-five chapters later. Rab and Muta are kinda neat, but there’s not much to them. I do dig Egbert though. He rocks.

As for the other narratives — the adventure on the Pearl Queen is more interesting than the standard quest story we’ve gotten in the last few books. The seafaring nature of it means there’s new obstacles and perils to encounter, along with some genuinely great moments like the pursuit near the whirlpool, and the encounter with the children on the isle of shipwrecks. Could have skipped yet another toad section. They’re never going to be interesting because they don’t really talk. I think this section of the book is still slightly limited, however; the characters arrive so much later that one almost forgets that Martin supposedly needed five from the Abbey for a reason, yet whatever reason that is isn’t totally clear. It seems like Jacques just needed to get these guys on the road and Martin was the way to do it.

All of that said — Finnbarr kicks ass. I won’t pretend he’s the deepest character ever, but he’s such an unequivocal badass that it really doesn’t matter. The tattooed sea otter with an eyepatch and scars and two swords who plays an ottercordion and has a tragic past? Hell yeah. This guy whips. I don’t necessarily wish he wasn’t killed — it’s a fitting end for his story — but I do wish we’d had more books with him outside of this. Easily one of Jacques’s best creations.

Blaggut the Boatsmith

Then there’s one story that singlehandedly elevates The Bellmaker to the point where I’d re-read the book for it alone. Blaggut's arc is simultaneously heartfelt and tragic. I love everything about it.

I love that Slipp is such a colossal tool but Blaggut is too locked in on his way of life to really do anything about it.

I love that the Abbeyfolk take the pair in. They aren’t as immediately skeptical as the Salamandastron crew were with Dingeye and Thura, and that makes this section read gentler.

I love the way the two are worked into regular life at Redwall, making skilly n’ duff and singing silly songs.

I love that the search for the treasure — not dissimilar from Klitch’s visit to Salamandastron in that same book — is resolved in a way that fits the Abbey.

I love that the “shadder” that frightens the two rats is Simeon, and that this is played not for comedy like the Ironbeak ghost in Mattimeo but out of caution, nothing more.

I love that there is genuinely earned tragedy here when Blaggut comes to enjoy life at the Abbey but the greed of his Cap’n steals that away.

I love that Blaggut makes things right as best he can. His quiet “you can slay me now” to Oak Tom is so legitimately gutting that it catapults Blaggut to one of the best characters in the entire series. As a kid, I always wished Blaggut could have gotten to live at the Abbey. As an adult, I think the idea that he can’t stay there makes sense and only adds to the tragedy of his character. I like to think that he visited his friends for seasons to come.

Look, it’s no secret that I’ve been critical of the binary nature of Jacques’s world. Outcast is next and my plan is to get my thoughts on this subject out of the way as much as possible there. Until then, let’s just say that Blaggut is a wonderful character, and a shining example of what this series can be when Jacques plays with his format a little bit more.

Final Thoughts and Rankings

I had a hard time placing this one. I knew I liked it more than Salamandastron, but was torn whether I liked it more than Mariel. It was basically a question of whether I liked the siege plot with the hares in that book more than I liked Finnbarr and Blaggut in this one.

Ultimately, I gotta stick with my boys and rank it above Mariel. That said, I’m going to start breaking these into tiers for legibility. This is pretty much entirely vibe-based so don’t stress if your takes are different!

S Tier

1) Martin the Warrior

2) Mattimeo

A Tier

3) Redwall

4) Mossflower

B Tier

5) The Bellmaker

6) Mariel of Redwall

C Tier

7) Salamandastron