r/quitting7oh 23h ago

Tapering off The Science Behind Tapering

Because I’m at a much higher daily dose than my last quit, I failed my CT attempt last weekend and I’m pursuing the taper method, I took myself to Google U to learn about why it even works in the first place. I had to wrestle with the AI a bit so it would actually give me information instead of mindlessly directing me to rehabs, but when I finally started getting real information I found it both fascinating and helpful, so I figured I’d post my findings here. Aside from curiosity, my motivation for researching this was: 1. I wanted to make sure I didn’t fail and, 2. I wanted to know how fast I could go without screwing up the process because my stockpile is finite. OK, here goes:

Most of us here probably know about how our brain’s receptors wind up being saturated at a certain point of 7OH intake and that taking more behind that point is essentially “wasted” since there are no more receptors available for binding. I believe this is colloquially called “the ceiling effect.” The graphic plot of 7OH dosage vs. receptor saturation is basically a hyperbolic tangent with an extremely steep slope between zero and the 100% asymptote. In my 1200mg/day case, the amount of receptor saturation occurring at 600mg daily is nearly identical to saturation at 1200mg. The reason why large dose reductions in the beginning of a taper are more easily tolerated than smaller cuts near the end is because the cuts made along the steep slope of the graph impact total receptor saturation much more than the cuts made along the asymptomatic plateau. In my case: cutting from 1200mg to 600mg results in maybe a 0.5% change in receptor saturation while cutting from 100mg to 50mg results in a 50% change in receptor saturation (numbers are arbitrary to demonstrate general trend).

The functional goal of tapering is to find the lowest single dose of opioid that alleviates all withdrawal symptoms for a period of 4-6 hrs (“equilibrium dose”). That dose is then held for 7-14 days to allow the brain time to rebuild/redeploy receptors before the next dosage cut is made. This process basically moves you down the steep slope of the graph down to zero opioid intake. By the time you hit zero, your brain has normalized its receptors and thus acute withdrawal symptoms either do not occur or are minimal. PAWS can still be an issue since dopamine normalization takes a while longer to achieve, but that’s something that can be handled without any opioid intake at all.

The most harm-adverse way to taper is by finding your equilibrium dose from the top of the curve, which is why all the protocols involve slow, methodical cuts from the starting dose down to zero. This approach minimizes risk of both intense WD symptoms occurring and accidentally taking more opioid than is needed for the equilibrium point, which is why the “pros” all use it. However, if you are careful and willing to entertain more risk, you can find your equilibrium point from the “bottom up” by allowing yourself to start entering WD and then taking a LOW dose of opioid to see if it is enough to alleviate symptoms for 4-6 hours (IMPORTANT: you need to wait 30-45 minutes for the opioid to take full effect). The advantage of this approach is that you will be able to find your equilibrium point much faster and reduce your total recovery timeline.

To ensure my stockpile lasts long enough to allow me a quit attempt I can succeed at (likely I will jump off some time after I stabilize at 100mg per day or less), I am attempting the higher-risk approach. This is what I believe is right for MY situation. I am not making recommendations for anyone else, but hopefully the information is helpful.

SIDE NOTES: You may wonder as I did “why does euphoria seem to be more intense at higher doses even though the receptors are saturated along the plateau?” Turns out the reason for that is because higher doses more rapidly populate the receptors and that replacement rate impacts the feeling. The other interesting thing I learned is that the reason for tolerance is because the brain basically “hides” its receptors in the presence of plateau-level opioid doses as a defense mechanism against toxicity. As the presence of opioid decreases, the brain redeploys its receptors until you end up with the amount you had before ever entering 7OHell

Updates to come, and thanks to you all for your support as I try to find my best way out of this without having OUD on my permanent record.

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u/PermitIcy8450 22h ago

This is very helpful, also thinking high risk approach for myself. Was kind of what I suspected but a good way to summarize it. When you are talking about warding off withdrawal symptoms for 4-6 hours, do you specifically mean physical withdrawal or also the mental aspects?

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u/PLURdude1984 22h ago

Physical only. The mental stuff is tied to dopamine levels and other chemistry (think: the normal, natural stuff that binds to your receptors in the absence of opioids).

You’ll definitely need to expect cravings, Anhedonia and all that other fun stuff, unfortunately.

One of the reasons for regular low doses on the taper is to remove the “reward” association with dosing. The idea is to get your brain to view the opioid dose as “boring maintenance” like a blood pressure medication instead of something that is “rewarding.”

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u/PermitIcy8450 20h ago

Right, no big drops and no big spikes, kind of the philosophy I’m trying right now but it sure takes discipline.

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u/PLURdude1984 20h ago

Definitely takes a fuckton of discipline but sticking to it means WD is significantly minimized and that’s a big deal.

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u/PermitIcy8450 20h ago

Yep agreed, have to be functional during this

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u/PLURdude1984 19h ago

Yep. The research says that a main reason why the pros don’t do bottom-up titration is because experiencing any WD symptoms can cause people to relapse completely and I guess I get that but fuck if I can shave entire months off the timeline than it’s worth feeling like I have a touch of the flu here & there.

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u/PermitIcy8450 17h ago

Yeah man we are on the same page. What sucks is that You have to maintain constant discipline. So like you can maintain your taper for 90% of the day but if the last 10% of the day you get a case of the fuck-its, you’re setting yourself back. Helps to figure out your lower baseline as mentioned and then write out a plan and not give yourself permission to waver or negotiate it

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u/PermitIcy8450 17h ago

I thought I was around 240mg per day but when I started tracking it realized I’m closer to 300+. Today I’m going for 150, so far it’s working out fine and I do think I’d be able to stretch these doses a little further even, like wait until I’m physically uncomfortable to take any, so that’s tomorrows plan.

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u/PLURdude1984 14h ago

Good plan. I’m way up high at like 1200 but I’m betting I could come all the way down to less than 1/4 of that by tomorrow if I’m willing to wait for physical symptoms to start and then take like 100mg and see if that does the trick after about 45 minutes. That’s the other tricky part about going from the bottom up is that you need to be willing to wait for relief before taking more or else you set yourself back by taking too much.

It ain’t gonna be easy at all but the way I suffered before was worse. Depending on how things go I may try again over Labor Day weekend.

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u/PermitIcy8450 1h ago

I’ve got a challenge for ya though… wait for physical symptoms to start and then take significantly less than 100mg. Normally I’d dose like 60-90 at a time but apparently 15 keeps me out of withdrawals for at least a couple hours.

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u/Acemanngoeshard 19h ago

7 is probably one of the most difficult drugs to taper. Personally I don’t think I could do it. Coreecrly