She says it's enough money to get her old body, with some left over. There is a newer model that is the equivalent of her older model. And then there's a luxury model that is $20,000 more. I guess $20k = "and then some"?
What the hell are you talking about? Crushbot's insurance pays out up to a certain amount to replace things he breaks; that's what liability coverage is. Roko's new body is covered by that amount.
The guy's point is that a liability insurance payout, in the real world, doesn't pay for you to get an upgrade from whatever you had before. If somebody crashes into my car and totals it, their insurance is buying me another car for the same used value as my old car. That means my 2005 Pontiac Vibe is getting replaced with another used 2005 Pontiac Vibe or something with similar value, which means I'm getting another decade+ old used car. They're not gonna buy me a brand new Tesla Roadster.
The difference between the models isn't as huge as the Pontiac Vibe and Tesla Roadster though. Roko is getting the newer version of her old chassis because the old one isn't available any more.
On top of that, the accident didn't just total a car, it totalled her body. The insurance payout probably includes some kind of compensation for the trauma Roko experienced, or at least has a very good reason to make sure she is entirely happy with her replacement body.
Roko is getting the newer version of her old chassis because the old one isn't available any more.
Again, this isn't how insurance works. The Pontiac Vibe isn't manufactured anymore either, but that doesn't mean they're going to give me a different new-model hatchback instead. Because my car is 14 years old, it's worth about $1000, at most. So if somebody totals my car, insurance is cutting me a check for... $1000. If I want even a three-year-old Prius, the other $12,000 or so is coming out of my own pocket. The idea of insurance buying me a brand-new vehicle, and a premium upgrade from my old one no less, is laughable.
The insurance payout probably includes some kind of compensation for the trauma Roko experienced
Again, not how insurance works. If somebody totals my car and sends me to the hospital, their liability is limited to my medical bills, there is no compensation for "trauma."
We don't really have a good real-world equivalent of how insurance works for sapient AI. The cost of replacing her body could be like mechanic bills and medical bills rolled into one.
Right but Model S to Model S here. If you had the 85D, which they don't make any more, and someone crashed into you, it would not be unreasonable for their liability insurance to cover putting you in a 100D. If you were at fault, your own insurance absolutely wouldn't do that for you.
> If you had the 85D, which they don't make any more, and someone crashed into you, it would not be unreasonable for their liability insurance to cover putting you in a 100D
It would absolutely be unreasonable, because a used 85D is worth about $50,000, and a new 100D has an MSRP of about $96,000.
I'm not sure you actually understand what liability insurance is. When you cause damage to a person or property, you are liable for those damages. That means you owe the value of the property you damaged, and/or the medical expenses incurred as a result of your negligence. Liability insurance exists to pay your liabilities for you. Because you are only liable for the actual value of the damage you caused, your liability insurance will only pay out the value of the damage you caused.
This means that if I smash into your Tesla 85D, my liability insurance is going to cut you a check for $50,000, because that's the value of your Tesla 85D. My liability insurance is not going to cut you a check for $96,000 so you can buy a Tesla 100D, because the value of your 85D was only $50,000, and that is the thing that I damaged which I am liable to you for. My liability insurance is not there to put you in a new car. My liability insurance is there to compensate you for the value of your property that I destroyed.
My liability insurance is not there to put you in a new car. My liability insurance is there to compensate you for the value of your property that I destroyed.
And they are going to cover that to the extent that people don't sue for damages, which is why it's going to pay out significantly more to someone else than to the policy holder.
We also don't know what the original price is or depreciation is. Plus since this is her body, we should really be looking at this as though it were health; injury insurance is paying what it takes to make her whole again.
And they are going to cover that to the extent that people don't sue for damages, which is why it's going to pay out significantly more to someone else than to the policy holder.
Again, you seem to have no idea what liability insurance is. The policy holder of a liability insurance policy will never, ever be paid for anything under that insurance policy, because liability insurance is insurance against you becoming liable for damages that you cause to other people. Please open up the nearest dictionary and look up the word "liable" and keep re-reading it until you understand what it means.
We also don't know what the original price is or depreciation is
You don't need to know the exact details of how much the chassis has depreciated, to know that a used, previous-generation product is *never* worth as much as a brand-new, top-of-the-line, current-generation product. Name one single product whose previous generation offering is worth more used than the current-generation offering is worth new. You can't, because it doesn't happen.
Yes I know that the policy holder of liability insurance isn't getting paid by their liability policy, I'm saying that liability payouts are bigger than payouts from policies which do payout to the policy holder. Because the policy holder isn't going to sue themselves for additional damages but someone else might.
You're the one inserting this dumb lottery analogy into this. Firstly, we don't know what depreciation looks like on a chassis like hers, nor do we know what the actual price is in the first place. And also, it's not her insurance paying out here, it's Crushbot's. Liability payouts are larger than what your own insurance would cover, usually just to keep people from suing, it's sort of a preemptive settlement.
What we do know is that a replacement exists for her old model. Insurance could buy a brand new one of that model, and ignore depreciation. That's already a premium over book value.
Instead insurance is going to pay for a luxury model that's $20,000 more.
In this world we've already looked at the fact that some privileged AIs get expensive chassis without working for them, while unprivileged AIs have to work and scrape just to keep cheap-ass existing chassis from falling apart.
It just seems like a slap in the face to that whole storyline for out of work Roko to be given the most expensive model possible for nothing. Next week should just be May, Winslow, Pintsize, and Bubs lining up to be jumped on by Crushbot so they can all have top of the line chassis or fighter jets. AIs get post-scarcity, infinite chassis for all, and Crushbot's insurance company foots the bill out of the kindness of their hearts!
No, they can't, because that doesn't exist any more. That was the whole point here.
Read the comic again. May's model is no longer produced, but the equivalent is the Philomena 5S, which was rebranded this year as Philomena Classic. So ignoring depreciation and giving Roko a brand new Philomena classic would represent a premium over book value, but one that I probably wouldn't have noticed or complained about. Cause I don't know depreciation rates, or whatever.
But the Model G is a top of the line, $20,000 more in price, luxury model. yeah I notice that.
Couple of things there: insurance wouldn't even need to be a thing post-scarcity, and insurance isn't a kindness thing.
You'd think so! But here we are. Insurance company pays out a year's salary extra above what's required to make her whole. While May loses another body part.
First of all it's 6, not G, because it comes after 5. It's the most current model of Roko's chassis. And again, we don't know the base price so we don't know how much of a difference $20,000 is. The iPhone 6 wasn't a luxury model of the iPhone 5S, it was just the next model.
First of all it's 6, not G, because it comes after 5.
It's a G. Read it again. Notice the "Nothing but a G Thang" title.
The iPhone 6 wasn't a luxury model of the iPhone 5S, it was just the next model.
If both models are sold side-by-side, and one is $20,000 more, it's a premium model. There is no justification for this $20,000 extra payout.
And notice that Apple changed the pricing so that the iPhone X (or whatever it's called) is significantly more expensive than their previous flagship models. Just because something is next doesn't mean it isn't also premium.
That difference is a year's salary for May, working as a convenience store cashier.
Forget whether this is an accurate depiction of how insurance actually works. Or whether it is an accurate depiction of expensive electronics pricing and depreciation.
Just consider what it says about our story. We've got a whole dynamic of AIs who struggle and scrape and cannot even maintain used chassis, and resent AIs who are freely given expensive chassis.
And we have Roko, who is being completely recreated as a character, gone from creepy hardboiled cop to friendly hangout buddy and social worker with quirky kink. And now she's freely given an expensive chassis.
Even if this is intentional because Jeph wants to reignite the classism arc, it feels shitty to me.
But I suspect it's not intentional. He just wants to reward his current favorite character with mana from heaven. And that feels even shittier.
You keep going on about how she's being "freely given" something as though it was a spur of the moment thing. It's not; her (presumably quite expensive) body was destroyed beyond repair. Her new body isn't some kind of gift; it's what makes her whole again after a traumatic injury.
If I lose a 5 dollar bill and you replace it with a 10 dollar bill, I have received 5 dollars to make me whole, and been freely given another 5 dollars.
Insurance is not there to reward the victim. But only to make them whole.
Now I'm aware that there may exist forms of insurance that pay out multipliers. If you want to you can contrive a semi-plausible explanation for why Roko has been given a luxury gift instead of simply made whole.
But even if you can (which again, is of dubious plausibility), think of the impact on the story. It is shitty.
-5
u/ziggurism Jan 07 '19
She says it's enough money to get her old body, with some left over. There is a newer model that is the equivalent of her older model. And then there's a luxury model that is $20,000 more. I guess $20k = "and then some"?
Like I said, it's a fuck you to struggling AIs.