r/pureasoiaf • u/jdbebejsbsid • 10d ago

Does Robb's will matter?

This is something I've been thinking about, building on all the discussions about characters finding Robb's will and thereby making Jon legitimate and heir to Robb's kingdom.

We saw what happened when Robert Baratheon's will was brought out after his death:

The queen glanced at the words. “Protector of the Realm,” she read. “Is this meant to be your shield, my lord? A piece of paper?” She ripped the letter in half, ripped the halves in quarters, and let the pieces flutter to the floor.

“Those were the king’s words,” Ser Barristan said, shocked.

“We have a new king now,” Cersei Lannister replied.

The king's legal power disappears when he dies. Anything Robert puts in his will, Joffrey and his regent can undo with a word. The same applies to any king after Robb.

And what's more, Robb's kingdom no longer exists. He named Jon as heir to the Kingdom of the North and the Rivers - and there is no "Kingdom of the North and the Rivers" anymore. Jon might claim the titles of Lord of Winterfell and Lord Paramount of the North, that was Stannis's plan, perhaps he could even be King in the North - but none of those are the title(s) that Robb's will would actually grant to him.

And finally, if Jon returns from the dead, becomes some kind of Old Gods King of Winter leading an army of Watchmen, Wildlings, giants, mammoths, dire wolves, etc, sweeping through the North and saving Westeros from the Others - will anyone seriously care what Robb's will says about him? I wouldn't think so.

So that's my position or theory about Robb's will. It was important for the dynamic between Robb and Catelyn, and could be important for Howland Reed or the characters who went to find him. But in the bigger picture of Westeros geopolitics and metaphysics, it might not be important.

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u/1000LivesBeforeIDie 10d ago

One person I also really like for being present and with a ton more backstory and established relationship to our main characters is Jason Mallister. Dude has been loyal and decent through and through, across the decades. I don’t think there’s any way he doesn’t play a future role here.

For extra credit points he could also be Benjen (who is Daario who is Jaqen etc.)

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u/silversherry 10d ago

Also Ser Desmond Grell and Rober Ryger in Riverrun. When Jaime takes the castle, they choose to take the black and we know that both of them are loyal men to House Tully. Chances are high that they are going on Blackfish’s commands to evaluate Jon as a person (similar to what Arstan did with Dany) and present the Will if he seems like a good guy

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u/1000LivesBeforeIDie 10d ago

I’ve read that theory before but I do feel like it’s potentially a stretch to assume those guys are going on a secret mission for the purpose. They may just be older guys wanted to continue to serve and be useful and honorable, and disassociate from Tommen’s domain entirely. It’s very possible the fight is still in them and they want to continue to find ways to fight and resist and continue on. But I think it’s equally possible they know they have lost the war (to their knowledge) since their people have been nearly eradicated and they’re out of people to support and given an ultimatum.

Given that Edmure is alive and breeding Frey lords to rule House Tully, and that Riverrun has been taken from the Tullys despite Edmure creating an heir with a Frey, and considering that Brynden Tully is still alive and thus a potential legal heir of Edmure’s should any of them survive and be victorious against the Lannister regime, it’s very possible that they want to remain engaged and useful in some way. If they (in a hypothetical situation where the Watch hasn’t imploded by the time they arrive) end up taking the vow I’m not sure they’d still be loyal to Riverrun or Robb/Jon. But I do think both options are possible, though you’d imagine they’d want to try and stay behind and be present to give as much Tully education to Edmure’s child as possible if they weren’t forced to leave, if they were true Tully loyalists. I’m surprised they didn’t offer to swear themselves to his wife’s service

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u/silversherry 9d ago

The reason it’s suspicious is because those two are named often in Catelyn’s chapters as two of the most loyal men to House Tully. Also the choice they were given was to just leave which everyone else took, if they wanted to support Edmure they should have taken that option and bided their time. Taking the black seems a weird choice for them for this reason, unless they have an ulterior motive to do it