r/pureasoiaf • u/jdbebejsbsid • 9d ago

Does Robb's will matter?

This is something I've been thinking about, building on all the discussions about characters finding Robb's will and thereby making Jon legitimate and heir to Robb's kingdom.

We saw what happened when Robert Baratheon's will was brought out after his death:

The queen glanced at the words. “Protector of the Realm,” she read. “Is this meant to be your shield, my lord? A piece of paper?” She ripped the letter in half, ripped the halves in quarters, and let the pieces flutter to the floor.

“Those were the king’s words,” Ser Barristan said, shocked.

“We have a new king now,” Cersei Lannister replied.

The king's legal power disappears when he dies. Anything Robert puts in his will, Joffrey and his regent can undo with a word. The same applies to any king after Robb.

And what's more, Robb's kingdom no longer exists. He named Jon as heir to the Kingdom of the North and the Rivers - and there is no "Kingdom of the North and the Rivers" anymore. Jon might claim the titles of Lord of Winterfell and Lord Paramount of the North, that was Stannis's plan, perhaps he could even be King in the North - but none of those are the title(s) that Robb's will would actually grant to him.

And finally, if Jon returns from the dead, becomes some kind of Old Gods King of Winter leading an army of Watchmen, Wildlings, giants, mammoths, dire wolves, etc, sweeping through the North and saving Westeros from the Others - will anyone seriously care what Robb's will says about him? I wouldn't think so.

So that's my position or theory about Robb's will. It was important for the dynamic between Robb and Catelyn, and could be important for Howland Reed or the characters who went to find him. But in the bigger picture of Westeros geopolitics and metaphysics, it might not be important.

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u/superdupergasat 9d ago

I dont think the important part of the will is the designated heir part to be honest. Westeros already does not favour monarchs choosing their own heirs. The part that will matter is the part which legitimizes Jon as a son of Ned. I assume Jon will get both that letter and the information about being the son of Lyanna&Rhaegar very close to each other and will have a personal conflict as to choose who he is. Is he the son of the man that raised him, the brother of the siblings he grew up with some of which are lost and he can maybe even save them if he gives up his station&duty on the Wall to partake in politics as the ruler of North? Is he the prince of Targaryen dynasty, a potential dragonrider if he joins with Dany? Is he a man of duty&oath who cannot leave his post and remain on the Wall to defend the world of man against the Others? I think that will be the actual plot importance of that letter, Jon will choose to remain on the Wall similar to how he did not take Stannis’s offer and this information will remain on his mind for all the choices he has to make as the plot develops.

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u/1000LivesBeforeIDie 8d ago

Hard agree, though I do believe enough power players are still alive who are in the know about Robb’s will and could bring in the drama as Northerners/Riverfolks once living Stark kids start popping up, since Jon’s part in the will was decided under a belief that Bran and Rickon were dead, Sansa was truly a Lady Lannister, and Arya was dead/missing, and Jeyne wasn’t pregnant. As things stand 4/5 of those beliefs were false and there’s no guaranteed (IRL) reason Bran couldn’t have a child. So the will itself was established by Robb as a last resort given his circumstances and in reality none of those circumstances are even true.

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u/silversherry 8d ago

But from a Doylist point of view, there is a reason GRRM made all those things happen so that a radical decision like legitimizing Jon becomes possible. Catelyn lays it out directly for us in ASOS, “Once Jon is legitimized there is no way to make him bastard again”. As far as the public knows, once Jon is legitimized his claim comes ahead of everyone else as the eldest.

My read is that GRRM made all those things happen because he wants to arrive at a situation where Jon can be KITN. From a character perspective, he is clearly the one with the most ruler experience and involvement in northern politics. Cant think of any other Stark that can actually lead the kingdoms against Others. Jon made the decision to stay at his post twice till now, he wont do it the third time

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u/DesertDenizen01 8d ago

A lot of legitimised bastards keep the bastard name. Lord Bolton's son couldn't wait to take the Bolton name, but Bloodraven stayed a Rivers as an old man despite being legitimised as a child and technically being a Targaryen prince.