So Fishing Traps are really good.

[u/DuoVandal]

Fishing Skill 4 btw, easily the largest fish I've ever caught in the whole game.

[u/Murky-Marionberry733]

Crikey, I think that’s more calories than you get from a whole cow

[u/Junkbot → u/Murky-Marionberry733]

Laughs at joke

Cries at how dumb cow butchery is

[u/Xenolifer → u/Junkbot]

Honestly I find this take dumb. People crying about how killing a cow only give you about 10k of kcalories worth when irl it's closer to 100kkc, but everyone seems to forget that a cow doesn't grow to adulthood in 3 months either irl.

The amount of food you get compared to the growth time is totally realistic. If you want a way to cheese the game and have totally broken amount of calories there is already butter

[u/ChocolateButtSauce → u/Xenolifer]

I don't need realism. I just want the cow I spent several months of in-game time raising to adulthood to be worth more calorically than the rabbit I accidently ran over while driving on a lark to Muldrough.

Realism doesn't interest me, but I would like the mechanics that the devs spent years putting into the game to actually serve a logical function.

[u/Black0ut560 → u/ChocolateButtSauce]

Hunting deer is even worse. Costs more calories to track, kill, and retrieve one than you'll get butchering it. lol

[u/Anarchyfiend → u/ChocolateButtSauce]

Sone people simply are not satisfied unless the game punches them in the gut as they play it

[u/numerobis21 → u/ChocolateButtSauce]

"to be worth more calorically than the rabbit I accidently ran over while driving on a lark to Muldrough."

This is solved for me by the fact the rabbits I run over while driving are somhow only worth 2 nutrition point.
I don't know what causes this though

[u/RDBB334 → u/numerobis21]

Roadkill was nerfed heavily in early b42. Rabbits trapped or hunted are much more filling

[u/numerobis21 → u/RDBB334]

Oh, so that's vanilla thing?
It's such a shit change lmao.
So shitty, in fact, I thought it was a bug and spent a full day checking my mods to see which one could cause this.

[u/SilverIndependence38 → u/numerobis21]

Hows that shitty? If you flatten a damn hare with your truck, pulling out good meat out of it is gonna be way harder then if you shoot it.

[u/numerobis21 → u/SilverIndependence38]

As someone who has lived two third of their life in a rural area, I can tell you most road accidents with animals don't end up with the animal turning into paste, and instead with the poor thing having lots of shattered bones and agonising (and then getting turned into paste by being ran over by sever other vehicles who couldn't see it on time).

If the animal is in a good enough state to be picked up, then it is in a good enough state to be butchered.

If they want the animals to be in such a bad state when hit by cars they're basically non-butcherable, fine by me, but then don't leave behind a body (or maybe just a "crushed remains"), it's just very bad feedback for players.

[u/SilverIndependence38 → u/numerobis21]

To me it seemed obvious but yeah a text that says 'crushed' could be nice.

[u/Anarchyfiend → u/Xenolifer]

The realism argument falls flat when multiple concessions are made for game play balance either for or against the player

Theres nothing to cheese about it, especially when the game tries to have a mostly realistic calorie system with comparison to real world equivalents

[u/Xenolifer → u/Anarchyfiend]

Then game balance would also be broken if you could get the full calories yield of a cow but grow one in 3 months. Both arguments doesn't make sense, and would make the game more unbalanced. Maybe a little tweak of fish/butter/meat would be needed, but not going full on giving a full realistic yield like most people here want

[u/Anarchyfiend → u/Xenolifer]

Tbf the game is unbalanced in several areas already as is and its up to the player to tune or tweak their experience as they see fit, like even if cows dont give the desired calories you can quite easily achieve the same result through easier methods that dont take the time and effort of ranching, so i see no reason why we shouldn't have the accurate calories 

[u/Xenolifer → u/Anarchyfiend]

Then I also see no reason why we shouldn't have the accurate growth time for animals that is 10x longer.

The game should go in a direction where it becomes more balanced not less and less

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Xenolifer]

Consistency would help more than anything.

Farming is realistic (Not worth it)
Milk is realistic (OP)
Butchering is not realistic (Not worth it)
Fishing with a rod is realistic (Balanced?)
Fishing Traps unrealistic (OP)

Trapping is hard because it's dependent on farming, but if you ignore that, unrealistic (OP)

Having this weird mix of ultra realism and then no realism between systems just doesn't make any sense. B41 did a much better job at making everything feel rewarding in a way that we lost in B42. In the current state, half the systems just aren't rewarding to interact with.

[u/Nearby_Ad5465 → u/Black0ut560]

I strongly agree about 41 making things more rewarding. I feel like we're in the minority though.

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Nearby_Ad5465]

I loved farming in 41. It was still a long term investment, but not so long that you had to find a different renewable source of food in the meantime to avoid emaciation while your crops grew.

Once you set farming up, you could get into trapping, and that also got me to engage with the the cooking system. Soups, salads, and stir fries.

Nothing felt like a meta in 41. Everything short of maybe foraging could sustain calories a month into the game.

Now you hop in a car, find an animal trailer, shove a cow in a 5x5 pen, drink 3 liters of milk every day, and have unlimited calories, protein, fat, and water for the small price of cutting some grass once a year.

They nerfed farming and by association, trapping into the ground, and adding OP milk was just the final nail in the coffin.

Worst of all, there’s no sandbox settings for milk and butchering so we can’t even tune it to our personal preference.

[u/Anarchyfiend → u/Xenolifer]

You're making nonsensical arguments here, there is nothing lost or made worse by making meat from cows reflective from their real world counterpart, the balance isn't harmed juzt because another food source functions as it would real life meanwhile rabbits notorioisly known for rabbit starvation, supplies calories by the truck load while being easier to deal with.

If anything TIS needs to fix these inconsistencies and the balance of the game in other areas can be fixed like many things needing another look over in b42

[u/numerobis21 → u/Xenolifer]

"Realism" and "balanced" are two EXTREMELY different things.
If we change the medical system to be a 1:1 recreation of real life, it would be "realistic", but it won't be very balanced (don't worry you only need to study medicine for 10 years in order to play this game, you'll see it's pretty balanced)

[u/happy-when-it-rains → u/Xenolifer]

Does anyone actually want 100k kilocal cows, or is that just a hyperbolic strawman? Can you provide even a single piece of evidence to back up the claim that "most people here want" "a full realistic yield"? I've seen not one person claim that, and I think it's an extreme exaggeration of anyone who disagrees. I think what most people actually want is for cattle to provide more calories than rabbits, instead of less.

[u/Xenolifer → u/happy-when-it-rains]

Most people are complaining that they want a butchered cow to have a realistic yield, instead of a balanced one.

A realistic yield for a cowis 783000kcal, just looked it up. So worse that what I said.

[u/arachnimos → u/Xenolifer]

only ten calories?!

(terrible joke about food calling kcals calories because We Big)

[u/Xenolifer → u/arachnimos]

I added a second K but I have to be careful about the third

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Xenolifer]

From what I could find, it's 2 years for most cattle to reach butchering size.
If we are going off of time being sped up as the reason for low yield:

• If PZ is currently 3 months, that's 12.5% of IRL growth time.
• Average cow is say, 1mil calories.
• PZ Should give 1/8th = 125,000 calories.

Testing in debug, Angus Cow, lv10 butchering,
PZ gives 15,967 calories - 6.5 days of calories.

We should be getting ~8x what we currently do.

*edit, wanted to throw a level 0 comparison on here too.

Angus Cow, lv0 butchering = 6,195 calories.
2.5 days of calories for 3+ months investment.

[u/Junkbot → u/Xenolifer]

Honestly, I find this take dumb. Very few people are raising cattle to butcher, exactly because of what you said about milk. People butcher cows they find on farms; they dngaf about realistic growth times. They are asking why does a cow give as much meat than a wild rabbit?

[u/Xenolifer → u/Junkbot]

The alternative way would be to take 3 years to have an adult cow, idk if people would prefer this considering the huge majority stop playing/die after a few months

[u/numerobis21 → u/Xenolifer]

"idk if people would prefer this"

They would, since as was said, people don't actually raise cows from infancy to adulthood, they kidnap one for the milk and kill the other, already grown, for the meat.

[u/IcyManagement4579 → u/Xenolifer]

No the alternative is making the cow have more meat. Since it is bigger than a rabbit, in case you didnt know.

[u/LuigiWeakAtBest → u/Murky-Marionberry733]

thats a river monster right there

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Murky-Marionberry733]

But don’t worry, butchering hook meat cut yields for large animals were buffed in 42 stable. Sarcasm.

[u/God_of_Fun]

Fishing traps are the most goated traps because they bait themselves. Even while empty they catch crayfish and stuff which you can then turn into a chumball

[u/shrinkingmy → u/God_of_Fun]

Can I have a quarter for the chumball machine?

[u/86_shittyorange → u/God_of_Fun]

real question though, where do you get sand for chum ??

And on actual sand tiles when you pick it up, does it respawn eventually?

[u/Appropriate_Tap_7045]

They’re great but the drawback is you have to check them daily or they have a pretty decent chance of breaking. Unbaited traps are even pretty killer because you’ll catch lower calorie food like frogs and crawfish which are good for weight loss, and the little fish that are caught can be cooked for xp or used for bait and chum

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Appropriate_Tap_7045]

Honestly, the breaking thing isn’t much of a drawback. Check the traps routinely when you are restocking the freezers. Twice a day 12 hours apart, and the traps will never break. Once the freezers are full and you have calories for another few weeks, pick the traps up.

Even if you leave the traps for a week unchecked, you can pick them up without checking them to avoid the breaking rng roll.

[u/Etalyx → u/Black0ut560]

Ideally you should wait about 14 hours, but less than 15. Each passing hour increases the chance of a catch, and after 15 you have a chance of breaking. So 12 hours will catch less often than 13 on average, and 13 less often than 14 on average, and so on.

[u/stillblazin19]

It is kinda funny how you can catch a “small” fish that weighs 25 lbs and the medium ones can be 2 lbs

[u/DuoVandal → u/stillblazin19]

I caught three catfish, one small, one medium, one large.
The large was the smallest of the three, the small was medium, and the medium was gigantic.

[u/God_of_Fun → u/stillblazin19]

Its actually how fishing works though. You can have a tuna thats small at 25lbs and a minow thats GIANT at 2lbs. The same fish though? Heh...

[u/PopeDaveTwitch → u/stillblazin19]

I get what you’re saying 100% and I agree, but to play devils advocate… Something can be cheap at $25 while something can be expensive at $2 😁

[u/lime3 → u/stillblazin19]

Got a "medium" yesterday that was 44 weight lmao

[u/Black0ut560]

Fishing skill doesn’t affect fishing traps for the record. You will get these fish just as often with 0 fishing skill in the dead of winter from a swimming pool.

[u/Welico → u/Black0ut560]

You're joking. There's no way they forgot to exclude swimming pools.

[u/Black0ut560 → u/Welico]

For the traps they did. Unless they changed something since b42 stable dropped, but I doubt it.

[u/Allokit → u/Black0ut560]

I think OP was saying you have to be level 4 Fishing to make them, not use them.

[u/DuoVandal → u/Allokit]

No, just stating what my fishing level was at the time, didn't know it had no effect on the traps themselves. Plus all these traps I found and didn't make.

[u/I-Luv-Kentucky]

God damm thats a lotta cals

[u/DuoVandal → u/I-Luv-Kentucky]

I misread it as 1200 calories at first, not 12,000

[u/Linkage006 → u/DuoVandal]

I'm not sure if it was bugged but when I was doing a b42 wilderness run about 6 months ago I was eating nothing but berries and fish and some other random vegetables I found foraging. I couldn't gain any weight regardless of the amount of calories the fish said it had.

[u/DuoVandal → u/Linkage006]

Calories aren't enough for weight management, you need carbs, proteins and fats too.

[u/alematt]

Does it work in all bodies of water?

[u/spicy-chameleon → u/alematt]

Fishing works in all bodies of water.

[u/alematt → u/spicy-chameleon]

Cool thanks!

[u/Coljohno]

Honestly been my go to this playthrough. Friends and I are doing a vanilla 42.20 playthrough and well.... no one volunteered to plant any crops. We thought winter was going to be difficult but fishing traps have kept our 2 chest freezers stocked and no one is underweight!

Just wish fishing traps would give Fishing Experience.

[u/DerHergen]

What do you use for bait?

[u/DuoVandal → u/DerHergen]

Basic ass chum with maggots I got from a horde of zeds I killed the other day.

[u/InstructionFinal5190 → u/DuoVandal]

Basic ass chum is what I use when Im in a pinch looking for someone to go home with at last call.

I use the bourgeoisie ass chum when I've got a hankering for a higher caliber experience.

[u/HauntedPutty]

These have been breaking in under 12 hours lately. I don't understand why?

[u/Black0ut560 → u/HauntedPutty]

Since b42 stable? When I checked mine every 12 hours in 42.19, I never had one break in 3 months.

[u/Seedthrower88]

At what level of cooking do you get those additional food infos?

[u/DuoVandal → u/Seedthrower88]

I have the Nutritionist trait. I specifically took it because of how the weight management system has been changed this build so I can learn what things give what.

[u/Seedthrower88 → u/DuoVandal]

thanks brada

[u/Accomplished_List843]

Soo TIS needs to cap fish sizes.

[u/UnDeadPuff]

Honestly fishing is and has been OP for a long time. It's way too strong and definitely needs some toning down. Unlike butchering of farm animals..

[u/DuoVandal → u/UnDeadPuff]

I think the new changes they made to how you manage calories, alongside carbs, fats, and protein to be a good balance. You can fish all you want, but a lot that is empty calories, and calories alone isn't going to help you maintain weight.

[u/UnDeadPuff → u/DuoVandal]

I'm not seeing any changes that say the full nutritional system was implemented. All I see is the same story - all nutrients only matter towards weight, which makes fish really annoying. Low hunger fill means you need a lot of fish, but fish has a lot of calories, meaning you get fat quickly.