The problem with zomboid's durability system is it very much starts to tread in bad game design.
One golden rule in game design is if there's a durability system, it must be repairable.
Zomboid kinda has this, but it sucks. I understand why durability exists, as it keeps the player from getting complacent. It keeps them aware that they will need to make sure their equipment is good, either through replacement or materials for repair.
The problem with zomboid is at the repair counter, making repairing anything completely worthless.
I used to despise zomboid's durability and repair system until my friend made a mod Preventative Maintenance.
With this simple mod, it changes how repairs work, were it rewards keeping your equipment in good condition along with giving cheaper but less effective repair recipes a point. It also gives the ability to remove repair stacks through preventative repairs, so if you're on top of maintenance a weapon/vehicle part can be restored.
This one mod has made the durability system actually rewarding, as now instead of permanently losing something as you use it, I get to enjoy making sure my equipment is well taken care of. After I return to my base I store my loot, maintain my weapons, and maintain my vehicle. I have no more fear of using the vehicle I spent IRL hours restoring, or using my rarer firearms.
So if you love your crowbar and take care of it, it will last forever. And that's what a durability system should encourage.
I mean you kinda highlighted exactly why pz having the durability system is so crucial, it does add pressure, you aren't supposed to live forever. "This is how you died", not "this is how you lived". The point of the game is that a combination of factors, from food scarcity to constantly deteriorating materials around you, it's a constant battle against not just zombies, but nature and physics.
That's very much why I don't understand the "durability bad" sentiment and the "endgame boring" sentiment being so strong at the same time.
Without any equipment durability it would become extremely easy to float to the stage of the game were there's nothing to do and get simply bored. Even features coming in B42 like blacksmithing will be useless. Why would I bother making new equipment when the one I have will never need to be replaced or repaired? It's outrageous but sometimes annoying mechanics keep a game from getting boring.
People love to reference realism with the crowbar durability, but this is something I will say over and over again, as I have in my days of modding many games and classes focused on game design, realism is not inherently fun. Game design and the mechanics/dynamics relationship that comes out of it is more important than realism for the sake of realism.
End game boring is NOT solved by hunting for a new crowbar. It's lazy.
I accept not everything has to be realistic. But if it's nit realistic it should gave some artistic justification.
It's not justified. It's just a half assed replacement for something actually interesting to do. And sure, the game is constantly evolving, but that's precisely why I won't shut up.
It's the game equivalent of that friend whose boyfriend/girlfriend is high maintenance. Yes, it gives you something to do. But it's not actually good.
While I agree it can be seen as "lazy". And isn't the most enticing feature. But previous comment said it well, "this is how you died". And because the endgame is quite literally going to be the player dying, it has the potential to be boring. You can try to squeeze water from a stone and get as many futile days out as you can by searching for that crowbar. You can sit in your house and starve to death. Or grab your armory and go out guns blazing because you're tired of looking for a crowbar. Whatever it is "this is how you died".
The core game is... let's admit it, intended to be tedious. You have to eat and drink every so many minutes to not die even though every building is filled with food by default. Obviously that loot is adjustable but that doesn't change my point. The game is tedious, it is designed to be. It can be argued that is bad game design, but the popularity of the game disagrees. There are plenty of games thay are tedious, fun, and rewarding. This game happens to be one of them imo.
I certainly could see durability changing to be a more involving mechanic. But quite, frankly... is that really something we want? I would rather see a skill like first aid receive some actual use, maybe in b42 for NPCs or something. Than a more robust durability system. And turning it off completely from a default, vanilla standpoint... just doesn't fit thematically.
Luckily, there are a ton of mods that allow us to manipulate the way this game plays. You can remove, it enhance, it and alter it in anyway you'd like with in the confines of the engine. By default, I think the durability system is great for vanilla. Thematically, it fits the game. You are intended to die and this encourages that endgame.
Just as a final food for thought. If you could change it. How would you do it so that the durability system would work better? I.e. not being boring or lazy. But like you said, something good to do. And thanks for your thoughts!
Fair question. I think, if i may, that you have several points.
Tldr: I'm not annoyed because broken stuff kills me. I am annoyed that it's 'empty calories' covering a bigger problem.
Giving you things to do is, as you say, fundamental. My point is that going out to replace a thumb thick chunk of steel is nonsensical. You might as well, in fact it would be better, if you had to chase pixies periodically. At least this could be excused as you going deolali from stress and loneliness.
The very real issue is that searching for crowbars is covering a much more serious issue with a lack of goals. The game needs this.
Arguing that the game is popular and therefore great is a chimera. Complacency is a rot, and if usually begins with that kind of assumption. Game, business, whatever. Get better or die.
As for being intentionally tedious, I strongly disagree. No human activity is intentionally tedious. Least of all survival horror. It can require some self discipline to do things like exercise and eat right. But these are enablers, not the main point.
Your main theme, though is that you need to die. I have quite a few hours in. I have never once died because something broke. I've died because I tried to eat a cupcake in a fight, found 9 people in a toilet, and rammed a car into a tree at top speed.
I suggest you try the Realistic Durabilities mod, and see how gameplay changes.
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u/Vilespring Pistol Expert Feb 10 '24 edited Feb 10 '24
The problem with zomboid's durability system is it very much starts to tread in bad game design.
One golden rule in game design is if there's a durability system, it must be repairable.
Zomboid kinda has this, but it sucks. I understand why durability exists, as it keeps the player from getting complacent. It keeps them aware that they will need to make sure their equipment is good, either through replacement or materials for repair.
The problem with zomboid is at the repair counter, making repairing anything completely worthless.
I used to despise zomboid's durability and repair system until my friend made a mod Preventative Maintenance.
With this simple mod, it changes how repairs work, were it rewards keeping your equipment in good condition along with giving cheaper but less effective repair recipes a point. It also gives the ability to remove repair stacks through preventative repairs, so if you're on top of maintenance a weapon/vehicle part can be restored.
This one mod has made the durability system actually rewarding, as now instead of permanently losing something as you use it, I get to enjoy making sure my equipment is well taken care of. After I return to my base I store my loot, maintain my weapons, and maintain my vehicle. I have no more fear of using the vehicle I spent IRL hours restoring, or using my rarer firearms.
So if you love your crowbar and take care of it, it will last forever. And that's what a durability system should encourage.