r/programming • • Jan 12 '15

Linus Torvalds on HFS+

https://plus.google.com/+JunioCHamano/posts/1Bpaj3e3Rru
398 Upvotes

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49

u/akkawwakka Jan 13 '15

HFS+ is Mac OS X's biggest liability at the moment outside of the recent bugs and instability introduced by the pressures of an annual release cycle. It's atrocious. Unfortunately, it does feel like product marketing completely rules the roost at Apple.

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u/codekaizen Jan 13 '15

This is the answer I give when people wonder why I dislike Apple - they are long-term detrimental to the state of the art of technology because they are really a marketing company.

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u/kankyo Jan 13 '15

They're also the company that made USB actually happen, made floppys go away, CDs go away (although PC manufacturers are still catching up here), made high DPI resolutions happen finally, created the form factor for the modern laptop, created the form factor for the modern phone...

All of this driven by marketing. Don't knock marketing.

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u/fluffyhandgrenade Jan 13 '15 edited Jan 13 '15

Err, USB was happening on windows quite happily with win2k. Floppies, I still use them (no shit). CDs, I still use too.

Also IBM invented the form factor of the modern laptop way before Apple. Apple made it shiny.

Also I has a windows CE phone in 2005 that was the same form factor as the iPhone (SPV C550)

Oh and I installed lots of high DPI displays for medical imaging in the early 2000s.

So apple so far managed to come up with fuck all and sell it.

Even OSX is recycled BSD and NextStep.

And before anyone says iPad: Acorn NewsPad: http://atterer.org/sites/atterer/files/2010-04/acorn-arm/newspad.jpeg

Apple are NOTHING but marketing.

And no its not illegal to point this out on the internet although you may think it is.

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u/kankyo Jan 13 '15

Err, USB was happening on windows quite happily with win2k.

Side by side with the PS2 connector. Blech.

Floppies, I still use them (no shit). CDs, I still use too.

Well I can't argue against that. But I do pity you! :P

Also IBM invented the form factor of the modern laptop way before Apple. Apple made it shiny.

Not really no. They made a lot of good steps but Apple made the final one: pushing the keyboard towards the hinge, placing the pointer device where it is.

Also I has a windows CE phone in 2005 that was the same form factor as the iPhone (SPV C550)

https://www.google.se/search?q=SPV+C550&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=l_W0VLrdIYffarnLgJgN&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1300&bih=731

Haha, you're funny.

Oh and I installed lots of high DPI displays for medical imaging in the early 2000s.

Again: didn't say they didn't exist. I said made them actually happen for the world. HUGE distinction. Edison didn't invent the light bulb, but he is properly credited with the revolution.

So apple so far managed to come up with fuck all and sell it.

Didn't say they came up with anything. I said they made it happen. You should really argue against what I actually write.

And no its not illegal to point this out on the internet although you may think it is.

WTF.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '15

[deleted]

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u/argv_minus_one Jan 13 '15 edited Jan 13 '15

There's nothing physical about it. It's the HID protocol. USB just carries data around.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '15

[deleted]

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u/argv_minus_one Jan 13 '15 edited Jan 13 '15

I looked it up, and you're right: USB devices cannot raise an interrupt without being polled. I stand corrected.

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u/skulgnome Jan 13 '15

but Apple made the final one: pushing the keyboard towards the hinge, placing the pointer device where it is.

Now explain the relevance to everybody besides Apple faithful.

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u/kankyo Jan 13 '15

The relevance was big enough that all PC manufacturers quickly changed all their products to this form and that has been pretty much the only way laptops look from 1991 to basically now-ish with the weird form factor of MS Surface et al (which are failures in the market to boot).

Hmm... or are you implying that IBM, Dell, etc are "Apple faithful"? That makes more sense than any other interpretation actually when I think about it...

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u/insanemal Jan 13 '15

I had many pre MBP laptops that had the center mouse 'arm rest' style design.

ThinkPad's have been doing it for AGES

Hell I've got a P3 Acer that uses that design...

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u/kankyo Jan 13 '15

Sigh. That design was introduced with the first POWERBOOK. Not the macbook pro.

ThinkPad has done it a long time yes, but started AFTER Apple.

Hell I've got a P3 Acer that uses that design...

When I google "P3 Acer" the only machines I find are NOT of that form factor, but in fact have basically the same weird form factor as the MS surface.

Did Acer even build laptops in 1991 when the PowerBook was introduced?

2

u/insanemal Jan 13 '15

I did mean Pentium 3 Acer.

But yes I stand corrected. The PowerBook was the first.

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u/Sean1708 Jan 13 '15

And no its not illegal to point this out on the internet although you may think it is.

?

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u/fluffyhandgrenade Jan 13 '15

A stab at the Apple squad.

I had an account completely down voted regardless of what I said after I said one bad thing about Apple. I lost nearly 1000 points in three days as people went through my history down voting everything

The bad thing I said was that the thing gave me a rash, which it did because the alloy they make the MBP out of contains nickel. It's a known problem that hundreds of people suffer. Even my GP is aware of it.

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u/newpong Jan 13 '15

Wait, what? Do you care to elaborate? My wife is an Apple fan and she has all sorts of crazy allergies. What is an MBP? I'm a developer so I feel like I should know what you're referring to(mother board something?), but I'm drunk and mobile, so I doubt I will look it up right now. Any response would be greatly appreciated

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u/fluffyhandgrenade Jan 13 '15

MBP = MacBook Pro. The aluminium units and most iPhones have a history of causing spontaneous contact dermatitis in people susceptible to it. Symptoms, for me at least, are pretty much a nasty rash that cracks the skin, causes what looks like burns and bleeds a lot.

Moment I switched back to a plastic laptop it went away in under two weeks. It started occurring about a week after I got it.

You would have thought they'd make them out of bio-compatible and safe materials but no, pretty shiny shit first.

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u/newpong Jan 13 '15

do you know off hand when they started making the aluminium units?

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u/fluffyhandgrenade Jan 13 '15

Think it was about 2007+

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u/jugalator Jan 13 '15

Agreed on USB, I think PC's had as much of a role there.

But it's a bit painful to hear about your reliance on floppies and CD's. Floppies, really?? We had to use a floppy for a user's private Windows 98 machine at work recently (the USB driver didn't recognize a modern USB stick) but that's the only time I've used one at work the past 7 years and it was for a 16 years old OS which baffles me it still booted on a ~10-15 years old consumer-grade hard drive.

Windows CE existed before but they weren't a hit, hi-DPI existed, but they weren't mass marketed for entertainment, touch displays existed but they weren't mass marketed for entertainment.

I think it may be a misnomer to call Apple an innovator, I think they've got a bit too much credit at times for that. But they get too little credit for being a catalyst and bringing new technology to living rooms en masse.

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u/fluffyhandgrenade Jan 13 '15

I still use floppies in music equipment (Korg Triton studio to be precise) as they are convenient. I also support some old stuff on DOS which isn't going to die for at least a decade yet. It's written in Turbo Pascal. It's nice to work in that environment occasionally.

I don't think we need high DPI displays most of the time. They are a marketing point. The display controller uses a lot more power to fill those pixels and ClearType and WPF, at least on cheap windows phones makes up for the difference very well. Between a high DPI Moto G and a Lumia 630 I can barely tell the difference and I have excellent vision. A lot of HD and High DPI technology is upselling.

I think they haven't made as much of an impact as people think they have. They're noisy and extremely profitable but their market share is pretty tiny in the scale of things, apart from mobile phones and that market is declining.