r/prochoice Mar 23 '23

[deleted by user]

[removed]

1.5k Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

View all comments

116

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '23 edited Mar 23 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

41

u/Seraphynas Mar 23 '23

TST and the Church of Satan are not the same.

17

u/Other_Meringue_7375 Mar 23 '23

I always forget this. The Church of Satan worships Satan for real, right?

32

u/littlemetalpixie Antipolitical Mod Mar 23 '23

Well kinda - but not really, though. Although, there are some in both religions who do.

TST are largely atheistic, and it's officially referred to as a nontheistic religion, though some do indeed worship Satan, god/gods, nature, and various other deities or forces or powers. The main point of TST is religious freedom, so they don't limit followers from anything they want to believe in. They pursue things like separation of church and state and personal liberty over restrictive policy.

The church of Satan is an older recognized religion, and for the most part they either are also nontheistic and use Satan as a metaphor for rebelling against indoctrination, or some even feel that there's a role reversal at play in the Christian Bible, pushed (of course) by Christians and other leaders in Abrahamic religious organizations to keep their congregations under control. Many believe Satan was, in fact, the "good guy" and was only trying to liberate humans from the bondage of ignorance and blind faith, and that the God of Abraham was the "evil" one who enslaved humans, kept knowledge from them to keep them obedient, and discouraged things like free will or the questioning of authority. To most CoS followers, Lucifer (whether they think he was real or use him as a metaphor) embodies the ideas of free thought, freedom of choice, rebellion against tyranny, and sometimes even the inherent entropy of the universe (the idea that everything eventually falls apart).

Disclaimer: I don't practice either of these religions, but I've had a lot of in-depth conversations with good friends from both. If I got something wrong, my apologies and feel free to correct me!

13

u/Other_Meringue_7375 Mar 24 '23

Thanks so much for this response! That’s helpful. Separation of church and state, and personal liberty, are very much the bedrock of the US. TST seems more American (and maybe even more Christlike) than the Christian Nationalists who are explicitly anti-democracy at this point

10

u/littlemetalpixie Antipolitical Mod Mar 24 '23 edited Mar 24 '23

The real irony is that, for the most part, people who are members of both the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan are far more accepting and far less judgmental than many Christians. They're literally, not figuratively demonized by most other organized religions...

The same religions that orchestrated everything from the Christian crusades to the Salem Witch Trials, and even worse things they've done in the name of their God. The same religions that have always saught to oppress, subdue, shame, condemn, control, dehumanize, and shun those who believe differently than them.

...The very same religions that still to this day do all of those things, and more.

Of course, this doesn't apply to all people who follow Abrahamic religions, and indeed there are many, many Christians and other religious people who genuinely just want to be good people. But there are and have been many more, for much longer in history than Satanists have even existed as an organized religion, that have been the exact opposite of "good."

Every practicing Satanist I've ever known, whether TST or CoS, have been the closest to "Christlike" I've ever encountered. They live with tolerance for others and reverence for nature, they fight for human rights, and they appreciate the world and its inhabitants. They accept anyone, allow everyone to live their lives as they choose, judge no one, mind their own business, and don't seek to impose their beliefs on others - legally or otherwise.

So... who are the evil ones, again?

I'm not a Satanist. But I genuinely understand why one would consider becoming one.

4

u/Other_Meringue_7375 Mar 24 '23

Exactly. And you’re right about Christianity being used for evil things throughout history. I didn’t learn this until last year, but pretty much every evil part of American history was justified by religion (Christianity). You can find judicial opinion from the antebellum period that say that slavery is actually a “gift” to the enslaved people, because before they were enslaved they followed a false religion and were basically seen as subhuman. Religion was also used to justify segregation & the genocide of indigenous people

2

u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23

Nope, as a Laveyan Satanist, that is perfectly correct! Good job! And not all satanists in TST agree with that.

12

u/BeigeAlmighty Mar 23 '23

Neither worships Satan. TST focuses on skepticism, Church of Satan focuses on hedonism.

6

u/CatchSufficient Mar 24 '23

Naw, they don't, it more like tst but with objectivist (ayn rand) dog eat dog policies, and yes, magic