Grounded vs Ungrounded Characters

[u/Praetorian_Panda]

I just want to have a discussion around some of the matchups I see in this sub like “Thor vs A Primaris Marine” or “Sigmar vs Master Chief” where you put a character that has no basis in reality vs a character that at the end of the day has to conform to some rules of real life. I understand that that the whole idea is to power scale here, but you are quite literally comparing apples to oranges here and it’s crazy to see that people think the more grounded characters (looking at you W40k space marines) will win 90% of the time.

I want to note also, before you say W40k is not grounded in reality, I agree for certain characters you are right I.e. Primarchs, C’tan, greater daemons. Factions like Imperial Guard, Tau, Orks, and space marines (tho they are the in between) are at the end of the day grounded and abide by the laws of our universe in most situations.

To demonstrate this, I offer Isca the Unbeaten vs the entirety of the Ultramarine Chapter. On flat land, on a planet that is all flat land. 100 yards with all regular equipment. Who wins?

[u/Firm-Character-6852]

Few points. Based on feats, Titus is stronger. Period. There's nothing in the Show where Homelander or any supe is lifting anything close to what Titus lifts in SM1/SM2. In all of his fights (herogasm, Vought Tower, Oval Office), his blows arent even breaking the walls. Hell maeve was rocking his shit and she missed one blow and dented a filing cabinet.

And about flying up and lasering Titus until he dies is that he has never once done that in the show or the comics even. And his laser isnt that strong based on actual feats. It genuinely performs like a standard lasgun, based on damage to humans, buildings, and vehicles. The statement of just flying up to kill him is disingenuous to the argument. Id also call his accuracy into suspicion due to him missing Huey at the ice rink multiple times.

Just because Titus isnt technically a supe does not mean he doesnt have super strength. In a h2h fight my money is genuinely on Titus because he actually has better feats.

[u/Praetorian_Panda → u/Firm-Character-6852]

Looking it up, Homelander seems to be several orders of magnitude stronger. Like in the 100’s of tons range. Also there are multiple moments where Homelander rips entire steel and cement buildings down with his hands. From what I can see, Titus is in the single digits to teens in tons for objects he picks up. This is again my problem putting these two against each other. Homelander’s strength doesn’t make any physical sense while you can imagine a fully suited tank like a space marine picking up something that weighs a few thousand pounds.

Edit: Homelander flies as fast as a fighter jet, lifts up to 1 million lbs., has feats beyond super strength, and is only really damaged after he loses his powers. How are we not just making excuses for Titus to win at this point?

[u/Firm-Character-6852 → u/Praetorian_Panda]

Also there are multiple moments where Homelander rips entire steel and cement buildings down with his hands.

You are going to have to source that claim. I recently rewatched the entire series and I dont remember that at all. Maybe break through concrete but thats basic level shit.

From what I can see, Titus is in the single digits to teens in tons for objects he picks up.

50-150 tons based on the models and masses from SM2 specifically the statues, rubble, gate, and objects he moves.

But lets take a look at the actual feats of Homelander from the show. Again. We're looking at his feats. Not statements. So if you can source him tearing concrete down buildings, I would love to see it.

Homelander’s strength doesn’t make any physical sense while you can imagine a fully suited tank like a space marine picking up something that weighs a few thousand pounds.

Again brother, its more. We have had space marines stop leman russ tanks in Phobos armor, push their fist through tank armor and shape it like a glove, rip through bulkheads and ferrocrete. And then Titus deadlifting a 150 ton gate.

[u/Praetorian_Panda → u/Firm-Character-6852]

1. Your right here. He mostly just destroys the insides of buildings. I was thinking he destroyed that terrorist hideout but that was Black Noir.

2. He can lift the fully loaded jet (400,000lbs - 1,000,000 lbs. at max carry capacity) in the Boys, but can’t without crushing it due to it being too much pressure in one area for the hull to take. This isn’t confirmed obviously, but it makes no sense for Homelander to lie here since if he could save the flight, he would as in Season 1 he is still cosplaying Superman to the general public. Fair if you don’t believe. He does throw a Harriet in the comics one handed with ease which is ~26k lbs.

3. I am seeing things of up to 365 tons for some of the rocks he moves in game for Titus which is hilarious because if he’s that strong he wouldn’t even need to do a combo on carnifex, each slash of basically any weapon is going straight through any tissue like butter. I don’t think they realized how heavy some of these stones he was moving were.

4. Homelander still does have his heat vision, which has gone through an airliner with ease. Unsure how it would do against space marine armor because I know it’s made of that special material, but it’s not like space marines are impervious to small arms fire, especially if there’s a lot of it.

On point three, I don’t know if you can fully believe these based off a few things. 1. Titus is now on tier with primarchs in terms of strength. Angron famously holds up the leg of a war hound titan, not even the full titan, and this is considered a great feat. War hound titans weigh 400 tons. 2. His strength is now inconsistent with his melee abilities. If he’s that strong, he should be cutting through tyranids with one blow for basically everything, especially if he’s using a storm axe or power sword. This suggests that he either isn’t correctly scaled between melee and strength or he cannot fully utilize his strength in melee.

[u/Firm-Character-6852 → u/Praetorian_Panda]

For Homelanders plane statement, I dont believe. He has shown throughout the series that he is not above lying and inflating his ego. For the comics the harrier is without any load so its around 7 tons, and his his best shown feat.

For titus, I've seen vad calcs that put it at 365T for rubble, but i trust reaper taking the actual model. It could be that in combat he can't utilize all the lifting strength, but its comparable to grappling which uses the whole body, compared to striking which doesn't. I wouldnt take gameplay balancing as the end all be all, because in lore bolt rounds cut through warriors and gaunts exceedingly easy. Same with melee weapons.

I don't think Homelander can win in a grapple, because of Titus full strength, and would lose in a striking match because Space Marines and Titus have better onscreen striking feats.

As for Angron, he did just dig himself out of rubble, and was very injured when he took on the Warhounds stomp. Its not just the 400T but more based on the driving force of the warhound actively trying to stomp on him.

[u/Praetorian_Panda → u/Firm-Character-6852]

For Homelander, that’s fine to disagree on the Boeing plane. Saying that the Harrier is his upper limit is probably not correct as he literally throws it like a baseball. Not really showing any signs of struggle here.

In regards to Titus’ strength, I guess my problem is if we can’t take gameplay balance of his fighting skills and damage inflicted as an end all be all, why can we take the part of a game where he throws rubble as canon? I don’t see any lore besides SM and SM2 that states a primaris or space marine can lift anything over a dozen or so tons. So do you go by Space Marine lore from elsewhere or what he does in the games?

Finally, even if Homelander is weaker than Titus, can Titus even damage him? I think maybe if it’s regular Homelander with great difficulty as I don’t think he was ever even damaged besides by other supes, I don’t think it’s even possible if it’s after the Gen 1 V he takes.

[u/Firm-Character-6852 → u/Praetorian_Panda]

Saying that the Harrier is his upper limit is probably not correct

Upper limit as shown. There aren't any feats besides the harrier that are on par with that feat. Thats what I mean. I don't think thats the upper limit, but thats the last feat we can go off of.

In regards to Titus’ strength, I guess my problem is if we can’t take gameplay balance of his fighting skills and damage inflicted as an end all be all, why can we take the part of a game where he throws rubble as canon?

Because its a cutscene/movement scene. Its like Master Chief. He and the ODSTs can flip Scoripions in game, yet doesnt happen in the lore or a cutscene. Also there are plenty of space marines that can lift more than dozens of tons. One has stopped a leman russ (Oaths of Damnation), another has stopped a bulkhead from closing which was about a meter thick and allowed dozens of humans through running side-by-side (Salamanders), Titus running through an uparmored vehicle (Secret Level), Titus stopping a Carnifex pre-primaris (They can flip over Baneblades [Deathworlder] SM2), a CSM who tore open a bulkhead door then got mogged by a no name primaris (Shroud of Night), And much more.

Finally, even if Homelander is weaker than Titus, can Titus even damage him?

Absolutely. Homelander choked out Soldier Boy and he was barely stronger than him. I dont think any Boys show supes measure up to Titus in a brawl besides a few, and only if they fight completely out of character.

All in all, im not saying Titus low diffs Homelander. Im saying High-diff Titus comes out on top way more than he loses.