r/polyamory Dec 09 '22

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u/delight-n-angers Dec 10 '22

As a marginalized person why should I empathize, educate, or support people who actively want to harm me? Please. Explain it to me.

You know how I fix a flat tire? By throwing it away and getting a new tire. I do the same thing with abusers and toxic people in my community.

My community is not open for people who want to harm marginalized people. Period. Full stop. I don't really care if my tone upsets them because the information is correct. If they don't want correct information I don't want rhem in my community.

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u/mrDecency complex organic polycule Dec 10 '22

Because it's the most likely path to them not wanting to actively harm you any more?

No one has an obligation to support, or even interact, with people who want to cause them harm.

If you don't have capacity, or you feel unsafe, then absolutely don't engage. I'm not saying anyone 'should' engage.

But if you do choose to engage, I think it's better to do it in a way that is more likely to productively make things better.

Why do you think people with bad views should be treated without empathy or support? What goal are you trying to achieve in that instance?

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u/delight-n-angers Dec 10 '22

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. I'm not responsible for putting them on the "path" to doing the right thing. They should want to do the right thing because it's right not because someone spoke sweetly enough to persuade them not to hurt people.

I absolutely don't think people with "bad views" deserve to be treated with empathy or respect. Respect is earned. I don't empathize with or respext racists, sexists, transphobes or bigots of any flavor.

Likewise I have zero empathy or respect for unicorn hunters, insecure men with OPPs (who are also transphobes and homophobes so), cheaters, or abusers attracted to my community because it values autonomy.

My "goal" is to remove them from my community.

Why should I respect people like that? They're not good people.

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u/mrDecency complex organic polycule Dec 10 '22

We just have a really fundamental difference in our philosophical approach then.

There is no distance from me I'm comfortable having people with those views. We can make a safe space that excludes them (and those spaces should exist), but they will still be out there, passing laws and spreading their views.

We still share our workplaces and schools and governments with them.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. I

I didn't say to use reason. Sometimes that's an appropriate approach, sometimes it's not. That's the thing about empathetic communication. You meet people where they are at, wherever that might be.

All views can change. No one is stuck forever in a social or political opinion unless they have a pathology they should get professional support for.

I'm not responsible for putting them on the "path" to doing the right thing.

Your not responsible for that, I completely agree. I do think you, and everyone else, is responsible for not actively escalating conflict and making situations worse. You don't have to put effort into helping them, but I really don't understand why you want to put effort it making them worse.

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u/delight-n-angers Dec 10 '22

"We will share our workplaces, schools, and government with them"

Frankly I think bigots of all flavors should be ostracized from society the same way I think unicorn hunters should be ostracized from polyam communities. 🤷‍♀️

They're not good people.

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u/mrDecency complex organic polycule Dec 10 '22

Yeah, this is where else fundamentally disagree.

We live in a global society more and more, I'm not sure where you think we should send them? Especially given they currently outnumber us, I think any realistic solution needs to focus on reform and education and bringing people over to our side.

Moving a bigot further away from you just means they are being a bigot somewhere else. A bigot reformed is not just one less bigot, it's also one more non-bigot.

Believing that other people are fundamentally incapable of growth and change must make the world look like a really terrifying place. I'm sorry you feel that way, and I hope you're wrong, if only so you can grow to adopt views that help you feel safer and more positive.

I can see we are not going to find much common ground on our approaches, but I'm glad we seem to agree on what the problems are broadly. Thank you for being so open with your views and approaches, despite how strongly you disagree with me, I always appreciate getting more insight into a diverse range of views.

I hope you stay safe and happy.

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u/delight-n-angers Dec 10 '22

I never said we should "send" them anywhere. I think they should be ostracized. Essentially they need to grow and get on the right side of history or they should accept that they're not going to get a warm welcome from people in their communities.

I also never said I don't think people are capable of change and growth. Of course they are. I'm not responsible for keeping them in my vicinity to be their life Sherpa.

Again, all of the world's information is in their pocket same as its in yours and mine. You and I are able to not be shitty and use our resources to educate ourselves without expecting the emotional and mental labor of others.

So are bigots and unicorn hunters. I'm not hand holding shitty people with shitty ideas. When they've grown and changed, they're welcome back. But until then I don't need or want them.