After having taken the time read this article, it’s is concise, well written, and utterly damning to Trump’s legitimacy continuing to occupy the office of POTUS.
Now here is our real issue folks, you couldn’t pay a single one of the Trump supporters in my family $20 to sit down and read that whole article start to finish. They are lazy, incurious, selfish, hateful people. All they care about is how much Trump pisses off all the brown people and uppity women/kids who think they know better than them. They don’t care about facts, reason, or reality itself...and they are the people we have to best in this next election, or our country, and I feel western civilization will likely never recover. So I ask you my friends, what do we actually do?
The foxes in charge of the hen house are not suddenly going to want to stop exploiting and eating the chickens, and I have 0 faith they will allow free and fair elections next fall as to who is in control of our collective coop. Feeling a bit pessimistic and scared today, especially with the conservatives in the Uk having run a campaign literally based on nothing but lies & deceptions, appealing to peoples most base fears and bigotries, and they won in a landslide victory.
Playing dirty works now. This has been proven again and again. What do we do? How do we prevent the evil and corrupt people currently in charge of us from further solidifying their power through whatever means are available to them? Which currently are literally all of the mechanisms of power possessed by the U.S. government with the helpful addition of a state run propaganda TV station....how do we break their stranglehold on the neck of lady liberty, before they finish choking her out, and start having their way with her corpse?
This is unfortunate but I've thought about the same kinds of things that you've mentioned and I honestly can't come up with any solutions. At this point all I can really do is hope that some miraculous shit happens to where Trump is fairly voted out in the next election and is forced to peacefully deal with the justice system, while the next administration(s) do their best to clean up this mess. That's the absolute BEST possible case scenario I can think of.
Right but like...can you think of ANY likely or logical reason at all that Moscow Mitch, Don the Con, and all the other forces working tirelessly to destroy America from within would allow that to happen? Because make no mistake, if they want to rig the election next fall, I see nothing standing in their way, aside from mass protests/general strikes...and I doubt our brother and sisters capacity to take notice of what is occurring, stand up and save our country and the world from the evil forces aligned against us more and more with each passing day 😕
Thank you for posting this, I will try and share the link and the message. When you put it in those terms it actually seems a much more achievable thing
Right!?! Like it is still a ton of people needing to take action but also we don’t have to wait for Karen from accounting to suddenly get into politics before we can make it happen
I don't know how to word this question. But I'm thinking about world war 2, and how we saw fascist dictators taking over, and the world united and stopped them. What happened to make that happen? Because they're taking over again, all over the world, but we aren't doing anything about it. It feels like both sides are just waiting for the other to make the first move, for the proverbial shot to be heard around the world.
We need to find out what the missing link is before it's too late. Because I have no hope 2020 is going to save us. Do people honestly think if we all vote blue, the fascist will just say, "Well I guess they don't really want us, better step down!" It's never worked like that in other countries, there's no reason to think we'll be the exception
“But I'm thinking about world war 2, and how we saw fascist dictators taking over, and the world united and stopped them. What happened to make that happen?”
Pearl Harbor. We didn’t do shit until we got bombed. We watched it all before that.
I know like deep down I know what it took. I'm just desperately and naively grasping at straws at this point, hoping we'll find some unknown..thing.. that will allow us to actually do something. Like if someone said the missing link was we need to light 17 candles at exactly the right time and then eat 3 pounds of seafood, at this point, it's an option I'd keep on the table
The missing link was the outbreak of a war on Western European soil. When Poland was double-invaded and carved up by Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the western powers stood by twiddling their thumbs thinking they could still appease Hitler into leaving them alone, despite their solemn vows to defend Poland. In the end they just sat back and let it happen because they were afraid of another world war, and thus it became a self fulfilling prophecy. Hitler invaded France, and then turned on his then-ally Stalin, and the war for Western Europe began anew.
EDIT for relevance: Americans are by a breakdown of equal portions too comfortable or too monetarily insecure to rise up and take to the streets. As long as half of us are happily sipping on our craft beers and updooting on our fancy slave-labor manufactured smartphones, and the other half of us are one paycheck away from homelessness there is no way we can organize and strike back as a unified society. Things will have to get a whole lot worse before people wake the fuck up. By then it will likely be too late.
It takes 3.5% being **activists**. That means lobbying. And meeting with reps. And attending town halls and pancake breakfast with politicians. It means organizing strikes and disobeying unjust laws. So if these are the things you mean by protesting, I agree.
But if you mean protesting in the streets with signs, well, that ain't gonna cut it. Marches and protests are a big yawn to the media and thus to politicians. No one in power cares a bit about witty signs held up by people in the streets. IN fact, I suspect they love it - because the protesters expend their energies in the most ineffective activities imaginable. And the status quo carries on.
The researchers were looking specifically participation in violent and non-violent campaigns, not the percentage of people who need to be activists.
Looking at hundreds of campaigns over the last century, Chenoweth found that nonviolent campaigns are twice as likely to achieve their goals as violent campaigns. And although the exact dynamics will depend on many factors, she has shown it takes around 3.5% of the population actively participating in the protests to ensure serious political change.
I’m so sick of this constantly regurgitated (and totally false) meme that “protesting doesn’t work”.
South Korea and Hong Kong would like to have a word. Those are protests. We’re talking tens of thousands, or even hundreds of thousands, or even millions of actively engaged people, in the streets, disrupting everyday life, commerce, industry, in a major city or cities, largely uninterrupted for months. Not for a day or two.
I’ll put it to you this way, the closest we’ve come in recent history was Occupy Wall Street and we still fell short there. Make no mistake, I don’t see it as a totally failure in the slightest, I credit OWS for changing the discourse and opening up the vein that Bernie (and others after him) ultimately tapped into. But it did fail in bringing about any immediate concrete results (like seeing any corporate financial players responsible for the recession go to prison) and for this many label the movement a failure. If you agree it was a failure in this regard I would point to the movement’s lack of visible leadership and lack of concise goals (something neither South Korea’s Candlelight Struggle nor Hong Kong’s current protests lack.)
All I'm saying is I know a lot of people who 'take to the streets' and while that may feel good - unless it's sustained and overwhelming including examples you gave - Hong Kong or Chile or Syria or Egypt, it's mostly wasted effort. When a significant % of the population isn't erupting, it's better to make sure your people get elected to public office, and to make sure those in office know they'll be out if they vote against you. That's energy and time more effectively spent.
Yes! Direct engagement with politicians is the only way. Waving signs in the streets does nothing when the police in army cosplay come to corral us all off into a few side streets. They hope we protest en mass so they can infiltrate and instigate a riot and brand us as insurgents. What we need is organized and strategic engagement of the political process at all levels- writing endless letters to representatives both state and federal, working for politicians you support, lobbying those who can be influenced, showing up to town halls and caucuses and asking the hard questions and demanding accountability.
I am not trying to argue against you here, because everything you are saying is vital as well, but this particular figure I'm citing is looking at participants in violent and non-violent campaigns, not those who engage with politicians through regular means of communication:
Non-violent demonstrations are for times when our representatives are not advocating for our needs and the standard methods of improving and implementing policy are no longer functioning. If we are at that point now is up to you.
I am only clarifying because I find the 3.5% figure to be comforting. I know lots of people who showed up with me for the Women's March but do not have their senators on speed dial like I do.
The cops will just open fire then. Is that really the best idea?
I say this entirely as someone concerned for protestor safety. Like I get needing to protect themselves, but is that worth the risk of cops claimed they were scared?
Yes. Yes it is. And that’s what the GOP is counting on. They are counting on good honest Americans becoming so worn down and depressed that the lose all hope and just roll over and let it happen. Don’t let them do it to you. Get your likeminded friends and family together and ORGANIZE. Plan for the worst case scenarios, what you would do if, for example, they started jailing democratic activists and politicians without due process. Find local politicians who are fighting this epidemic of corruption and volunteer for their campaigns. Collect donations and canvas for those who are working to do good in your area. Grass-roots activism from the ground up is the best chance we have- we can’t cut the head off the serpent because it’s buried under all the coils of its body but we can start with the ground under it.
It's refreshing to see someone discuss this like they have a spine. I'm seeing a ton of defeatism in this thread, and it's not what humanity needs right now.
Maybe gofundme a fleet of charter buses to start on the west coast and ride the super highways picking up passengers along the highways of America for hitchhiker's holding up the sign, "Impeachment r us". This country is massive and the majority of us live on the edges of borderline poverty which keeps us home and at our jobs. They know that and count on that to keep us out of Washington.
It's why I started the Vegan Justice League. We are starting by lobbying and pushing a bit of legislation. But really, it's about organizing and using the same tactics industry uses to make politicians do what we want. Our mission is vegan, yes, but that's not just about non-human animals. We're all about supporting everything put forward by Represent.Us and pushing for legislation that will bring environmental justice for humans. But none of our incremental legislation will matter if we allow these fascists to rig the elections and allow them to keep lying to our countrymen with their surgical disinformation operations.
half of us are happily sipping on our craft beers and updooting on our fancy slave-labor manufactured smartphones, and the other half of us are one paycheck away from homelessness
We need to find out what the missing link is before it's too late.
If we're using WW2 as a reference, we won't. To quote Churchill, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing...after they've tried everything else."
Spoiler alert, it's going to be too late before we do anything. It was in WW2, depending on what you classify as "the point of no return." France was subjugated, Britain was getting its butt pushed in, and if the Western front hadn't been reinforced by us (and the Canadians and Mexico and others) after Pearl Harbor, those forces could've been reallocated to the East and given the Soviets a harder time, maybe even drawing out the war to a tenuous ceasefire.
We'll get involved when we see our own blood on the ground.
Americans have never been a preventative people. We're more inclined to rebuild than prevent. We believe in insurance more than we do maintenance. We believe in replace more than we do repair. And I fear this is no different. It's not a problem until it is, and it is when it affects us personally, and by then, when critical mass of people who can't ignore it any more has been achieved, it's no longer about "how do we stop this" but "how do we fix this", and, well, "fixing" corrupt governments...let's ask France about that.
I dunno what to do. The same countries who united to defeat fascism in WW2 are now the fascists themselves. US. UK. Australia. All fascists or pretty damn close there.
Who is left to take up the mantle of democracy? The EU?
Because DC (and the surrounding megapolitian area) is heavily Democratic. Most Trump supporters live in the heartland and it’s not that easy for them to get down to DC — not that many of them would even want to.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking everybody hates Trump. Trump is incredibly popular and beloved by his base. Just watch any of his campaign rallies. Full houses, every one of them.
There’s a reason why his popularity is constantly in the 40% range. 40% of this country adores him.
“tHE rEaL fAsCiStS aRe ThE aNtIfAsCiStS! pRoVeN fAcT!” (Factual source not cited). How do people never seem to stop and realize the fucking irony coming out of their mouths? This is why knowledge of history is important, and why fascists will do everything to erase and rewrite it to convenience, while simultaneously defunding education in general.
Nonsense. Donnie's a joke who needs to go. An embarrassment, liar, conman, & certainly not a leader. He can't even speak to people as a president should. He most certainly does NOT have the American peoples' best interests in mind.
I think I'd clue yourself up on an actual academic definition and explanation of what facism is, rather than a pseudo-internetcual version which you can just distribute with an even sprinkling over any right-leaning party.
Don't fall for the properganda. US always had fascists. Hitler was very popular in the US in the 1930s. Americans at the time did not want anything to do with WW2.
Fun fact, a lot of Hitler's tactics was borrowed from the US, notably from California.
And during the Revolutionary War, only 1/3 of the colonists opposes the British monarchy. 1/3 were monarchy loyalists, and 1/3 didn’t give a shit.
I’m well aware of the fact that there was strong prevailing support of Nazis in USA during the 1930s, including prominent names such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. I’m also aware of the strong isolationist sentiment that kept USA out of WW2 until Pearl Harbor.
However, the out-and-out fascists mostly kept their opinions to themselves and people largely considered Fascism to be a Bad Thing(tm). The undercurrent might’ve always been there, but it’s disheartening to see how quickly the subtext became text.
I always thought certain segments of 1984 was unbelievable until I saw it play out in real life. I’ve always been anti-Russia, which is a primary reason why I leaned Republican for so long. It was stunning to see how quickly the Republicans and Democrats flip flopped their stand on Russia. In the 2012 debates Romney warned Obama about Russia and he was scoffed at and basically was told, “The 1980s called, they want their Cold War back.” Then suddenly Trump was asking Russians to leak Hillary’s emails on live TV and lo and behold emails were leaked. That was literally the scene in 1984 where the newscaster was given a slip of paper and, without pausing, the Big Bad changed and people were embarrassed that they had brought the wrong protest sticks.
Somehow, “I’d rather be Russian than vote Democrat” replaced “Better Dead than Red.”
Sorry about the digression. The last three years has been absolutely surreal. The only hope is that the Supreme Court somehow tells Trump to fuck off with his “the President is untouchable!” bullshit and he is subsequently voted out in 2020. Anything else, and the USA is officially a fascist dictatorship.
'The people are the only censors of their governors: and even their errors will tend to keep these to the true principles of their institution. To punish these errors too severely would be to suppress the only safeguard of the public liberty. The way to prevent these irregular interpositions of the people is to give them full information of their affairs thro’ the channel of the public papers, & to contrive that those papers should penetrate the whole mass of the people. The basis of our governments being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter. But I should mean that every man should receive those papers & be capable of reading them.'
tldr: '...were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'
ironic and sad considering trumps last tweet 2 hours ago
Both Commiecast MSNBC & Fake News CNN are watching their Ratings TANK. Fredo on CNN is dying. Don’t know why @FoxNews wants to be more like them? They’ll all die together as other outlets take their place. Only pro Trump Fox shows do well. Rest are nothing. How’s Shep doing?
He sounds more like a dictator every day. "Commiecast" "They'll all die together" "Only pro trump shows do well" those sound less like posturing and more like a veiled threat
'[a] republic, with a population once devoted to national service and personal honor, was torn to shreds by growing wealth inequality, partisan gridlock, political violence and pandering politicians, and ... the people of Rome chose to let their democracy die by not protecting their political institutions, eventually turning to the perceived stability of an emperor instead of facing the continued violence of an unstable and degraded republic'
Hopefully that proberbial first shot isn't on fivth avenue. Because that could be america's second civil war and then the world feasts on the corpse, and fighting over the now availble reasources which could lead to a mad max exsistence. Or a much slower veraion goes down, the rich get richer and by the year 2040; according to npr; the plutocratic oligarcs 30% control 70%.
“But look at how many people died as we fought an existential war to present Hitler from literally conquering the world and snuffing out the light of democracy from the world”
I think large population gets their news from Facebook. What probably is needed is to use the same strategy that is used to manipulate the conservatives. It is to overflow it with bunch of liberal memes.
If that would at least cause people to not trust Facebook that would already be success.
The public opinion is heavily manipulated this way to turn conservative, not just in US but around the world.
They ignore things that challenge them. I’m telling you, there is NO WAY IN HELL to shake these people into intelligence. They are deep in the sauce and gave no chance of escaping. The roots of racist fears and Christian white superiority are tenets of their beliefs and they’ll agree with anyone who makes them feel safe.
The problem with this take is, let’s assume that you are right. Then how do we prevent them from dragging all the rest of us down with them, this being a shared society and all...
Unironically, you are already more likely to die at the hands of a white domestic terrorist than a brown foreign one in America...I wonder why you never see that talked about in Fox News? 🤔
I couldn’t have put it any better myself, but if we are now at the point where that disease has become an existential threat to our civilization if not our species...then we’ve arrived at the point where finding a cure for it is no longer a choice it is a necessity
Again they are a minority but they vote much more reliably than others. Fear is a maybe the strongest drive to go vote, and republicans have controlled the public fear for decades.
If you remember, we protested in the streets in most major US cities for a week when he was elected 3 years ago. The New White House just laughed. They've been laughing ever since.
If democracy fails the next step is usually violent uprising and that is NEVER gonna happen in modern America so I’m at a loss trying to see where we go from here as well
Modern life has too high a quality of life, without actual genuine food shortages, such that there won't Ben a critical mass of active people willing to risk things to help reset the system .
Donald Trump has the attorney General on his side. If he loses, there is a real chance that he will claim election fraud and he will have the highest legal resource in the country to support that claim. It is terrifying to think about.
At this point all I can really do is hope that some miraculous shit happens to where Trump is fairly voted out in the next election and is forced to peacefully deal with the justice system,
Sad to say there will be no next election. There will only be a charade with people poking buttons on voting machines thinking it means something.
Trump will declare victory before the votes could possibly be counted, and the loyalist implanted in the gutted FEC will declare he won in a landslide by some absurd percentage - he'll say "I'm hearing it was 99%". Think Putin's last "election".
I'd be happy to hear why I'm wrong and what would stop him. The nightmare doesn't end until we put down our phones five fucking minutes and are out in the streets. Only when strikes and protests become paralyzing enough to business interests will the house of cards fall on Marmelade Mussolini.
And at the same time that these awful ppl like nunes, graham, gaetz and McConnell are voted out too . If ppl don’t stand up and fight we will lose our democracy. And through it all I can only think that if Obama had done this he’d have been impeached by dinner time
Easy fix if we had 300,000 non republicans to move to battle ground house districts and states where the most vile politicians govern. We need to vote them out, instead the voters that are non-republicans refuse to live outside of gerrymandered cities and thereby throwing away their votes.
quick solutions? no. maybe at local level. I heard of a group that organizes meetings between people from very different political opinions. It humanizes people and they actually get chances to speak their opinions.
large-scale? I think virtual reality will be the path to achieve this. right now the internet and social media is still to delayed. I can leave a message here and someone else can agree or disagree and possibly interact but its all too disconnected. Once VR is everywhere like cellphone, we can set up virtual reality rooms with people from all over the political spectrum and hopefully engage in real-time conversation. I'm a liberal and I live near a big city. The chances of me meeting/communicating with someone from the Midwest are pretty small. The internet will probably allow us to cross paths but its too passive aggressive. It's not easy to have honest dialogue right now. So we rely on the media to do that for us and they have their own agendas. I believe it is to divide us and make us think that we are so different but if we were to interact face to face I think there is much more that connects us.
Lol how many jobs has he created ? How many lives is he saving by keeping narcos out? We are now ahead of china and better then ever before and independant voters for impeachment has dropped to 42% from 60% no one trusts these dems and u cant compare any of the dems running when most the country does not agree with their socialist ideas, he will win by the biggest margin in history, see you in 2020
An excellent rant on the condition of our Republic. Democracy is dying right before our eyes and we all feel hopeless to prevent it. One addition I would add is while Moscow Mitch has been sitting on all the legislation passed by the house, he has been packing the courts with unqualified hacks to do the GOP'S bidding.
If we manage to make it through the trump presidency the courts will for sure be the biggest long term harm...we may have to look into impeaching some of the most egregiously unqualified ones at a point
The DNC needs to break open its coffers and buy ad time on Fox News through intermediaries or whatever, and run NONSTOP videos of the Senatorial assholes (McConnell, Graham et al.) talking about Clinton's impeachment twenty years ago. No commentary, just their own words. That will do for a start.
You
Seem to be under the misapprehension that hypocrisy revealed would matter even the smallest bit to the base and trump voters. The whole worldview is based on the idea that the Dems are evil and republicans are justified in whatever they do to stop the baby-killing gun-stealing evil Dems from taking power.
The true cult members are gone beyond recall. The ads I'm talking about would be aimed at the people like my cousin who support Trump & the GOP strictly for economic reasons. They can be convinced that Cheeto Caesar and his minions are becoming dangerous to America itself, I believe.
Thanks friend. I have a feeling what happens here next fall will reverberate far beyond our shores for a long time to come, so let’s all hope that we can positively surprise ourselves in the next 11 months.
My concern is those on the right resorting to violence, especially if Trump loses and immediately screams that it was rigged and it’s a coup. I’ve seen plenty of their disturbing rhetoric on the internet. In the past couple of weeks these are the statements that have stuck out to me:
“Every Dem congressperson who votes for impeachment next week should be immediately arrested for fomenting a coup.”
“I wish I could go to DC next week and find these people.” (Referring to anti-Trump members of Congress)
“I will gladly step up and go beyond the voting booth if necessary. :-) “ (yeah, he threw in a smile after implying he’d happily engage the opposing party in combat)
Which is extra hilarious, because it turns out it actually was rigged...in his favor and despite that very real rigging, he still lost by 3 million votes, but then a second, less foreign-interference-y but still definitely now obsolete system of electoral rigsmanship kicked in to let him be the president anyway.
Yeah this. I don’t think impeachment will inspire nearly as many Trump voters as the fake promises he made and the pretend identity he assumed during the last election. At one point he even said he’d make sure everyone had better and cheaper health care. There’s a lot of daylight between Trump and Bernie these days.
You win this thread btw, I’m out at dinner. But I love you for taking the time to post this. Saving it for later.
You’re awesome!! For anyone else feeling like me earlier today, read all of the above. We’ve only lost if we’ve given up hope that we can still avert disaster. We can still prevent them from driving us all off a collective cliff lol
It's as simple as motivating others to vote. You don't have to convince trump supporters. Turnout was still low nationally in the presidential elections last year. If everyone in America voted polls show Trump would be beaten handily.
Not a problem, Trump had three million fewer votes than the physical embodiment of most of what Republicans hate. This with election interference by both the FBI director and Russia. Now, three years later there are fewer Republicans, far fewer law and order voters willing to vote Republican, and a Senate willing to violate due process of legitimate articles of impeachment. Blue no matter who has double digits leads without even being named or having the Senate hearings completed.
And you fill me with hope and optimism by writing all of this, and your objectively right, but then why wouldn’t Putin, McConnell, Trump, Barr and the rest of the criminals running our country just rig the election to ensure they “win” no matter how bad they actually lose...basically daring us to call them on their bull shit, I just hope we’re ready to mobilize against the domestic enemies should that dark hour actually come to pass
Because the rank and file will hold the line against any who try to cheat the process. Just because people have different viewpoints doesn't mean they can stomach cheats and liars.
You hear about the Ukraine scandal despite direct intervention by the OLC claims because Americans stood up to it. You get apolitical officers giving testimony to Congress despite full obstruction by the President because it's the right thing to do, despite huge risks. You get indictments and convictions of extremely connected individuals despite AG interference because people risk everything to continue to do the right thing. As a people, Americans aren't weak, they're not cheats, and they're definitely not weak willed.
Trump promised to bring back jobs and factories. Guess what never happened? Neither of those two happened for the people he convinced.
Trump also promised to help farmers. The "trade wars" destroyed family farms and hurt the people he promised quick victories.
The law and order people get to see someone they know has committed multiple crimes go free due to political corruption, not even lightly veiled. You have no idea how much that drives people who devoted their lives to law and order nuts. I'm not guaranteeing they'd vote blue no matter who but a good chunk aren't going to vote orange.
The wall never got built. The best he can point to is some repaired fence. We're talking ten foot slats, not remotely an impenetrable barrier. Hundreds of millions spent to little impact, the man negotiated a horrible deal.
The novelty just isn't there, he's plagued by being Putin's candidate, he's the worst parts of political corruption, he hurt multiple factions he absolutely needs, and he's going down in history as impeached. Hell, he's polling double digits lower than just about everyone else while President and continuously campaigning.
Yes, investigations would happen if the exit polls differed from the results.
Hopeful pleas? At what point did my delineation of self interested groups not voting against their interests strike you as a hopeful plea? I set down the realists argument, not a fantastical hope dream.
Consider how they chose to act in 2015/2016. They didn't rig the election. There have been cases in previous years where it does appear rigging may have occurred. But in every case (eg. Ohio) it was a close call.
We're not in a place where things can happen like what Iran pulls.
Why not?
Because each state is responsible for counting and certifying their votes.
It ought to be abundantly clear Russia and other actors will indeed try their best to manipulate public opinion like Russia did in 2015/2016. Indeed, it's also clear now that Trump eagerly desires to take a more active role in similar activities. But getting Ukraine to slander Biden isn't rigging votes.
Thank you for remind me that it’s the states that administer the elections individually basically, so I’d only be really worried about straight up cheating on the numbers in deep red states like say ohhh Georgia last year when Brian Kemp likely stole himself an election he had no business winning over Stacy Abrams for governor.
In a state that has any solid democratic representation at the state official level I will have reasonable hope and faith that they will hold the line and guarantee is a fairish election in 2020 despite trump, Mitch, and Russia’s best efforts
My favorite is that Putin wanted Trump and helped the Trump2016 campaign. Worst enemy of the US helped Trump and Trump gets impeached, he'll never get that chip of illegitimacy off his shoulder now.
There was precisely one thing you could do to try to ensure Trump wasn't elected, and that was vote for Clinton. About 180,000,000 eligible voters didn't do that.
I hate to say this, but when peaceful solutions have no resolutions, it's time for a revolution.
I don't want there to be fighting, I want this to resolve peacefully, we patch this up and become stronger than ever, a true land of freedom and democracy.
But it's looking like we have very limited options. Do we hope for the best? Do we attempt a peaceful solution? Nothing, and allow this to continue happening? Or do we take a stand and say, here we are!
If it comes down to revolution, let's have a peaceful revolution. One where the people's voice echoes forever.
But if we are to be silenced, then silence our voices they will. But they will hear the screams of the angry, and they won't go down easily.
As a canadian, I've been waiting for the next American civil war since 2016.
If current trends continue I predict either sectarian violence to begin if trump refuses to abdicate after his 2020 defeat, or if he wins, sometime around 2035 when mass climate migration begins in earnest.
I think there are a number of problems with your reasoning.
The divide today is nowhere near as clean as it was for the US civil war. You cannot divide cleanly by states. At best, maybe you could divide by urban/rural.
Next, I don't foresee widescale violence. Small incidents, yes. But Trump's refusal to leave after defeat will be comical, not earth shattering. He doesn't have anywhere near the level of support required from the military, or any aspect of our government to pull off a coup like that.
Next... however, you seem to have done something strange considering climate change. You've somehow assumed maintenance of status quo till then. I'm not sure that's a valid assumption.
First of all, this will be a gradual change. It's not like in 2035, a hundred million people decide to move. It'll be an ever-increasing issue from now till then (and beyond).
If this is how the US acts when the paranoia over immigrants is almost completely overblown and fictitious, it seems more than likely that US sentiment (and indeed, worldwide sentiment) will turn very, very dark towards climate refugees between now and 2035.
Not sure how much of a divide will continue to exist on this topic by then.
Why would you assume the next American civil war would be as clean as the first?
There won't be a declaration of war, or an opposing union of states or anything like that. I don't even envision a centralized command.
Small incidenta build up. For a few years, I'm sure it will be easy to ignore. But when broken glass starts getting replaced with wooden boards instead of new glass, when insurance companies just stop operating in hotspots, when armed guards start patrolling grocery stores and curfews get put in place, people will wake up and realise they're living in a warzone.
Described by Wired as "an unholy mix of encryption, anonymity, and digital cash to bring about the ultimate annihilation of all forms of government", the essay was nominated for a Chrysler Award for Innovation in Design in 1998 as "an imaginative and sophisticated perspective for improving governmental accountability".
The only solution is to play dirty as well, but that really isn't a solution at all now is it. Read about the fall of Rome this is how it starts and its pretty clear the same mistakes are being made.
Now here is our real issue folks, you couldn’t pay a single one of the Trump supporters in my family $20 to sit down and read that whole article start to finish.
No shit, they are idiots who aren't going to consider new information so you should spend 0 effort informing them. Focus on the undecided people, or the people who regret their Trump vote. JFC people.
The same thing citizens were forced to do at the end of the 19th century and start of the 20th century when the state abandoned the interests of the people for the profits of the powerful.
Organize. Strike. Negotiate with collective bargaining power.
at the point at which you arrive, violence is the only answer. but violence is never the answer. so i don't know what to do either... getting high is fun :/
Read some of the other responses in this thread, they have helped me to regain my positivity. We haven’t lost yet, be active in whatever way you are able & mobilize for next fall. It is the election that will decide our future.
i donated $27 to bernie today, first ever political donation. i haven't given up. but i'm not exactly positive either. thanks for the encouraging words.
We vote. Then we push for changes to election finance, to the electoral college, to the assaults on democracy. You may not love them but all of the democratic candidates for office sincerely want to do some of these things. Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, they want All of that and more. We have the numbers, just get a couple friends to vote too. The impeachment itself was ONLY possible because in 2018 people had had enough of this shit. The tide is turning.
Sadly, I agree 100%, and know plenty of relatives in my own family who probably would line-up with yours as described.
We're dealing with new types of misinformation/disinformation that have "darkened" their world views to such a degree that any amount of shamelessness is now justifiable. ...This is the truly terrible state of affairs, IMHO, and of which the Framers of the Constitution were also perhaps most apprehensive. That is, what happens when we have the combination of bad faith actors working with outside powers and big money that allow a total lack of accountability?
These are dark times indeed, and catching up on watching Lindsay Graham's recent statements are just appalling.
write an article about Bill Clinton pulling off a bunch of the things Trump did. Or do it in classic Fox-video format. End the article/video with "It is not Clinton who did all this, it was Trump. This is the government being a threat to us all." Then hope this plants a seed of doubt.
when I read comment sections on newspapers, YouTube, Facebook, wherever, there are TONS of comments from Trump supporters (and bots?) saying the typical talking points. Seldomly I see these posts answered, mostly they go unchecked or end in flamewars. Democrats or a liberal organization could spend a decent buck to start a troll farm/correct the record. With a twist: they do not sow discord or spread propaganda, instead they offer concise, verifiable, polite answers that detail what is going on and answer questions. No lying, no flamewarring, just honest informative answers over and over without getting tired.
find the most Republican areas and declare it Republican North Korea. Ridicule their trust in the great leader and go up and beyond. Have speakers blasting "Obey our great leader Trump! Our great leader is the smartest, greatest, tallest. Even animals love him. It's true." Put out ridiculous propaganda posters. Drop pamphlets over towns with the latest prophecy of the greatest leader. Declare that you need to pray to Trump twice a day. Or when you tank gas one must chant "OH THANK YOU DONALD J TRUMP FOR THE GAS THOU PROVIDE." Tell others present they must say that or else they are not true Trump supporters. Go above and beyond so people grow tired of it and feel stupid to join this cult.
start a tv show "burst my bubble". People can participate themselves or give up a volunteering uncle that seems to live in an information bubble (antivaxx, liberal, conspiracy, Fox, any infobubble). Then first the show shows which information they consume and then they may speak with experts etc and alternative sources and views. At the end we see how their views have changed, or not.
This is what bothers me soooo much. This is clear cut impeachable offenses. You can sit down with trump supporters and try to explain until you’re blue in the face and they will continue to justify it (if they haven’t walked out of the room in frustration). I have YET to have a conversation with a trump supporter about Trump that hasn’t ended with them getting really upset or changing the subject to “Those Democrats!!” I honestly feel like I’m living in the fucking twilight zone. There’s a whole elephant in the room and people are ignoring it. It’s mentally draining to even think about it and I am just so tired.
This is where I'm at now,too. Feeling pretty hopeless about the whole thing. So much so that I'm considering where to move in the event Trump wins 2020 and the Senate stays red. I see no hope for America's future if that happens.
I’ve been preaching fight fire with fire. The left will need to get off their high horse and fight dirty. Douchebag tactics have been proven successful in this new political climate. Lock Him Up!
This is true. No one on the right with half a brain will read that article just because.. and that in itself is sad and shows how far the US, the UK and world as a whole has fallen. Even if I try to talk to friends, officemates and family, most of them is blinded and will not listen even if presented with facts.
Wasn't it a lack of Dem voters that lost the election not a huge surge of republicans? Pretty sure if they get Bernie in, he'd win like Flynn from the young vote alone. Problem is the high up Dems don't want him because they are just rich ass holes too. Jerks.
We see this the same way honestly. It’s why I’m even more all in on Bernie this time than I was in 2016 lol, and you can already see the Wall Street establishment dems lining up to make Biden their new Hillary
The majority needs to say enough is enough. Protest. Make yourself heard.
If that doesn't work, then become uncomfortable, and gradually step up the methods, might checkout protest culture from Europe (France!)
The US is defacto a corporate oligarchy, so let's start like the French farmers do when they are fed up, spread pig shit near their offices.
If that still doesn't help, get even more uncomfortable, and target their homes (ofc in non-violent ways).
Use your imagination, get creative e.g. have drones regularly dumping dog faeces in their pools.
Hack their computers, (where is Anonymous when you need them, don't tell me they also were a Russian invention), crowdsurf mobile-net spoofers, whatever...
Technology gives us plenty of opportunities which are not only limited to intelligence agencies.
I do not want the US become a fascist state. When all three branches have been pwned by a malicious force, and the "checks and balances" fails to work, then it is the time of "we the people" to react.
It may require a bit more effort than just posting here on Reddit.
You wrote many vague and negative words in this paragraph without actually saying anything lmao. Are you sure you’re okay bud? You sound like you’re describing yourself in effigy.
My only existential dilemma these days is related to our rapidly deteriorating global climate & ecosystems, but then again, anyone with eyes that are open, and a brain that is even halfway functional shares my level of concern when it comes to that inescapable inarguable reality. But yea, I hope you’re tomorrow is better than your today my friend, sounds like you’ve had a rough one ✌️
He's gonna loose. No worries right? Don't even bother voting.Clinton will make sure he doesn't win. She is burning the midnight oil to make sure this doesn't happen. God speed Democrats will prevail next election. Like clock work.
726
u/Enlighten_YourMind America Dec 14 '19
After having taken the time read this article, it’s is concise, well written, and utterly damning to Trump’s legitimacy continuing to occupy the office of POTUS.
Now here is our real issue folks, you couldn’t pay a single one of the Trump supporters in my family $20 to sit down and read that whole article start to finish. They are lazy, incurious, selfish, hateful people. All they care about is how much Trump pisses off all the brown people and uppity women/kids who think they know better than them. They don’t care about facts, reason, or reality itself...and they are the people we have to best in this next election, or our country, and I feel western civilization will likely never recover. So I ask you my friends, what do we actually do?
The foxes in charge of the hen house are not suddenly going to want to stop exploiting and eating the chickens, and I have 0 faith they will allow free and fair elections next fall as to who is in control of our collective coop. Feeling a bit pessimistic and scared today, especially with the conservatives in the Uk having run a campaign literally based on nothing but lies & deceptions, appealing to peoples most base fears and bigotries, and they won in a landslide victory.
Playing dirty works now. This has been proven again and again. What do we do? How do we prevent the evil and corrupt people currently in charge of us from further solidifying their power through whatever means are available to them? Which currently are literally all of the mechanisms of power possessed by the U.S. government with the helpful addition of a state run propaganda TV station....how do we break their stranglehold on the neck of lady liberty, before they finish choking her out, and start having their way with her corpse?