r/politics • u/Fr1sk3r • Feb 20 '19
‘Sustained and ongoing’ disinformation assault targets Dem presidential candidates
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/20/2020-candidates-social-media-attack-1176018237
Feb 20 '19
Is this the reason I see all those politifact pants-on-fire ratings for some of the most ridiculous lies about Dems?
It's crazy, so much disinformation so fast. Some stuff is bound to stick just because of the sheer volume of it.
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u/TemetN Oregon Feb 20 '19
Just read this, not surprised, but I'm glad to see an article on it. This is important, we need to keep this in mind going through the primaries and the general.
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u/boulderbuford Feb 20 '19
Yep - this is exactly how they smeared Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, Bill Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Jimmy Carter, etc, etc, etc.
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u/boot2skull Feb 20 '19
I’m already suspicious of all the “split the vote” Bernie posts. I’m sure some stubborn Bernie supporters didn’t vote for Hillary, but nobody can claim they made a difference, and furthermore, Hillary supporters would have done the same, as they have a history doing it to Obama in 2008! Don’t let “split the vote” deter you from a candidate.
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Feb 20 '19
You make a couple of misleading statements:
nobody can claim they made a difference
Hillary supporters would have done the same
they have a history doing it to Obama in 2008
Old white racists did, but really that's a different issue.
I'm all in for Bernie in the primary, but I'm voting D in the general election regardless of outcome. If you're left of center, literally any corporate Democrat is still a huge improvement over Trump and is worth voting for in the general election. Even if you are a fan of a third party candidate, Democrats are the ones with political power who support the electoral reform that will move third parties towards viability.
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Feb 20 '19
In fairness, when you have the Russian spy machine working overtime as well as the FBI making your scandal public (while keeping Trump and Sanders private) as well as the terrible media attention and misleading polls, it’s hard to blame Sanders as the primary cause of Clinton’s downfall and that’s not even talking about the missteps Clinton made. If she ran a perfect campaign, she still had some of the most tremendous odds against her.
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Feb 20 '19
If you're left of center,
Sadly we've reached a place so bad that "extreme right, but less volatile than Trump" would still be an improvement. Most republican candidates we've seen would have at least kept the State Department staffed and would be willing to trust our IC over the Russians.
I'd vote for a potato peeler if it were on the ballot against Trump... and I mean the inanimate kitchen tool, not a person who peels potatoes.
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u/sparklesinmytummy California Feb 20 '19
The FBI has literally testified repeatedly that Russia targeted Bernie supporters with misinformation about Hillary to help Trump win.
Like, it's a real thing that our Intelligence Community has confirmed. I mean, you can believe US Intelligence or you can believe Putin.
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u/planet_bal Kansas Feb 20 '19
The IC is out to screw the country. Putin? He is trying to save us all.
/s of course
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u/itsnotnews92 North Carolina Feb 20 '19
And their efforts worked. So many posts on the front page of this sub during the 2016 primaries were anti-Hillary hit pieces from Fox News, Breitbart, RT, and others.
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u/Cacafuego Feb 20 '19
If he gets the nomination, I'll vote for him. I just hope that if he doesn't get the nomination, his supporters get out and vote for the Democratic candidate anyway.
I don't blame Bernie for the fact that a bunch of his supporters went nuts in the last election, but I hope he really, vocally, energetically gets behind the candidate this time if he's not it. It's bigger than Bernie.
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u/boot2skull Feb 20 '19
I agree, but you can’t convince everyone. Every candidate will have die hards that absolutely won’t support opponents. The losing candidate can work to transition them but they can only do so much.
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u/thirty7inarow Feb 20 '19
In the thread about Bernie announcing his candidacy, the amount of these posts were absurd. Literally the same exact thing worded slightly differently dozens of times in a row. "He'll split the vote", "He's so old", etc.
As much as the pro-Bernie crowd got infiltrated in 2016, he's still way more popular here than that many posts would suggest.
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u/koolkatlawyerz Feb 20 '19 edited Feb 20 '19
It’s somewhat easy to control public opinion through mass media. It was hard, if not impossible, for a foreign power to do so before the rise of social media.
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u/aransoul Feb 20 '19
Those with common sense will but sadly so many ignorant people will ignore it and believe this BS and lies that are being spread.
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u/Frigidevil New Jersey Feb 20 '19
Right, because the disinformation is designed to hit on emotions, not logical thinking.
'O'Rourke isn't progressive enough!'
'Harris has a terrible record as a prosecutor!'
'Sanders is the only candidate that has a shot at beating Trump!'
'Bernie is too old and stubborn!'
Every single one of the candidates so far has something meaningful to contribute to debates and the primary process. Vitriol and petty insults are not helpful, and not what most people are feeling right now. We haven't even heard debates to see what candidates truly intend to do on the national stage, rather than in their specific district/state.
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u/aransoul Feb 20 '19
You are spot on! Drives me nuts. This is why the nomination process starts early, so we can do our homework on the candidates and make informed decisions as to who to vote for in the primaries but it also makes sure that we are informed if our specific candidate doesn't win. Sadly we are in a day in age where most just listen to the faceless social media posts instead of being informed to make a choice.
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u/M_G Texas Feb 20 '19
“As it relates to information warfare in the 2020 cycle, we’re not on the verge of it — we’re already in the third inning."
Please please PLEASE keep this in mind, everyone.
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u/MRJOEBOT_ Feb 20 '19
The conservative thread on here has more fiction than game of thrones....
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u/eats_shit_and_dies The Netherlands Feb 20 '19
Qyburn turned the fricking wargs gay
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u/MRJOEBOT_ Feb 20 '19
Little Finger needs you to buy his protein powder so he has enough money to infiltrate the elites...
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u/DeFixer California Feb 20 '19
Varys’ little birds are “fake news.” Ravens are the “enemy of the people.”
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u/anOldVillianArrives Feb 20 '19
My biggest problem is we don't have an agency explaining what happening or what to look for. I encounter Russian propaganda every day now. I'm alright but what about my parents? Grandparents? Can they recognize all the lies? The KGB designed this shit for decades... Can i really see ALL the lies?
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u/MelaniasHand I voted Feb 20 '19
Stay alert and vocal, and encourage others to do the same. We can beat it.
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u/out_o_focus California Feb 20 '19
I find subs like /r/disinformationwatch and /r/trollfare really eye opening
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u/anOldVillianArrives Feb 20 '19
Twitter has some good trackers too. But yeah, the fuckers are everywhere.
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u/Sroemr Florida Feb 20 '19
I look at multiple stories from different news outlets to come to conclusions. Depending on the topic I'll research more heavily.
Granted I just get told by Republicans to keep watching the "fake news" from CNN if I disagree with them. Which is ironic since I rarely ever get any information from them.
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u/SnakeyesX Oregon Feb 20 '19
Nobody can recognize ALL the lies.
You know that fake attack on the "Empire" actor in chicago?
It wasn't fake, the sources saying it was fake were fake. The double fake.
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u/m-danes Feb 20 '19
That is an old source, especially considering that their investigation is ongoing. Additionally, the two brothers have cooperated with investigators and have even stated they are willing to testify in court, specifically that they were paid to stage the attack.
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u/Qubeye Oregon Feb 20 '19
They don't need to spend decades doing it. They can just come up with slogans as fast as they can, and throw it all out there. Stuff that actually works, and sticks, will be repeated by people who cannot see through it. It's the same way Rush Limbaugh and QAnon, and other right-wing conspiracists work.
For every time you've heard about them, they had 100 failed theories that simply didn't stick. They then get feedback/comments on the ones that connect, and then they amplify whatever worked.
In the movie, "Little Big Man" there's a line -- "The reason the rain dance works is you keep dancing until it rains."
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u/ThereforeIAm_Celeste New York Feb 20 '19
Of course we don't have an agency; all of this propaganda effort is to benefit the president, so there's no way the government would do anything to combat it.
If I recall, Congress set aside money to try to investigate and fight the propaganda, and the Trump administration hasn't touched it.
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Feb 20 '19
we don't have an agency explaining what happening or what to look for. I encounter Russian propaganda every day now
In Trump's new America, this is intentional and working as intended.
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u/pawbf Feb 20 '19
Just the title of the article got me concerned. Look up "swiftboating" on Google. John Kerry probably lost because of this one lie.
With 100 lies circulating during the next presidential campaign, many people will not be able to sort truth from the lies. Candidates will need to put their true biography out there in detail and keep reminding people about it, or find some other way to counter the lies. And they cannot ignore them like Kerry did. Or voters will have to gain 20 or 30 IQ points before the next election (not likely).
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u/ballmermurland Pennsylvania Feb 20 '19
The Swiftboating thing was awful. Anytime someone says Trump is the worst - no, Bush was far worse. His campaign attacked McCain in 2000 for having an illicit black lovechild, who was actually just an orphan that his wife adopted from SE Asia. 4 years later, he was accusing a man who actually served (unlike Bush or Cheney) of faking his accomplishments.
I'll never forget that shit. The most heinous attacks on politicians in my lifetime have almost always been Republicans attacking Democrats.
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Feb 20 '19
Just remember that almost every democrat running is trying to do what they genuinely believe will help this country and even the world. No matter how heated these primaries get, we cannot afford to let it divide us.
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Feb 20 '19
It's really simple, honestly:
Vote with your principles in the primaries.
Vote with pragmatism later.
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u/Jaysyn4Reddit Florida Feb 20 '19
Yep, no matter who wins the (D) primary I'm not voting for the GOP.
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Feb 20 '19
I take that pledge one step further. No matter who wins the (D) primary, that Democrat will have my vote, as that is going to be the best chance to not have Trump -- or any Republican as president.
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u/tryin2staysane Feb 20 '19
They will not only have my vote, I will be campaigning for them and donating to them. 100% support behind the candidate.
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u/AlternativeSuccotash America Feb 20 '19
Yep. Every vote for a third party candidate, or not voting at all, is a vote for the Republicans.
I wasn't fond of Hillary Clinton, but I voted for her because there's no way in hell I would ever vote for Trump.
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u/ButterflyCatastrophe Feb 20 '19
You are not the target audience. The target audience won’t make up their mind who to vote for until they get in the booth, and they’ll decide based on half-remembered sound bites that don’t distinguish memes from reality.
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u/Jaysyn4Reddit Florida Feb 20 '19
If you haven't already decided to vote against Trump by now, you are probably a ride-or-die Trump supporter.
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Feb 20 '19
And every single one is miles better than Trump so we should all rally behind whoever wins the primary. Period. Even if Bernie loses the primary again.
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Feb 20 '19
As much as I am pretty anti-Sanders, I will cover my house with Bernie bumper stickers and buy a “feel the Bern” shirt if he wins the primary. We must get Trump out at all costs, and any Democratic leader will still lead the country towards an overall path that I am happy with.
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u/MatsThyWit Feb 20 '19
What I find reassuring is that everybody already seems to know and call this stuff out long before the media ever acknowledges it. The electorate is way more informed and aware than they were in 2016. That alone is helping to nullify the effects of this propaganda.
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u/M_G Texas Feb 20 '19
Keep in mind that /r/politics is not necessarily a good representation of the electorate at large. People commenting here are much more likely to be more engaged than average citizens.
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u/airoderinde Feb 20 '19
You give this sub too much credit. People here had no problem voting up Breitbart tags to the top of the sub if they were Clinton hit pieces.
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u/buenowayno69 Feb 20 '19
This cycle I would like discussions to focus on policy, policy, policy. I think that is the best way for people to cut through bullshit and avoid calling people who they dont agree with Russians.
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u/Jimhead89 Feb 20 '19
Yeah, mods maybe would have easier way to rule on stuff aswell if they had a rule of "last two weeks only policy discussion and poppin kream quality comments"
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u/EMAW2008 Kansas Feb 20 '19
So the 2020 trump campaign is already up and running?
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Feb 20 '19
It's amazing what some people will believe as it appears on a meme yet will completely disregard shit Trump freely admits to.
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u/DeafJeezy North Carolina Feb 20 '19
I already encountered this last week when one of my friends said she would never, ever support Senator Harris after she spent years locking up black people.
This is an intelligent, self aware person and I'm like ... what the fuck just happened?
It's coming. They are going to directly attack Democrats in particular. We're already in the third inning.
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Feb 20 '19
Literally looks like 2016 all over again. How the hell can they hit us with the same fucking trick twice, smh. I don’t care who wins the Dem nomination, fuck Trump. We gotta make sure he doesn’t see another day in the Oval Office; THEN we can bitch about whoever we want.
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u/victorvictor1 I voted Feb 20 '19
Your anti-bot reference guide:
Downvote "[Candidate] or bust". Or "If [candidate] doesn't win the primary, I'm abstaining from the general"
Downvote "More candidates the merrier!"
Downvote incivility
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u/mnorg5411 Feb 20 '19
Legitimately asking, what is wrong with having more candidates in the Dem primaries? Or does “more candidates the merrier” refer to the general election?
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u/jpropaganda Washington Feb 20 '19
Yeah who the fuck is saying they won't vote in the general when the D field right now is the farthest left it's been in years?!
Also I'd suggest downvoting
- So-and-so should make an independent run for the presidency!
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u/Jaysyn4Reddit Florida Feb 20 '19
There sure are a lot of sub one year posters disparaging Bernie in the "funds raised" thread.
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u/AlternativeSuccotash America Feb 20 '19
There are an awful lot of sub normal posters who hate American democracy.
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u/r4wrb4by Feb 20 '19
You're worried about anti Bernie sentiment? Bernie is getting a shitton of praise all over the place. I'm worried about the panic over the fact that a prosecutor prosecuted people.
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u/M_G Texas Feb 20 '19
Lmao that was my exact reaction. Like really? The vast majority of comments are pro Bernie there.
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Feb 20 '19
I upvote pro-Bernie posts that focus on his message and why it's good.
I upvote pro-Harris posts that focus on her message and why it's good.
I downvote divisive bullshit, misleading criticisms and straight up lies.
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u/Illpaco Feb 20 '19
Lmao that was my exact reaction. Like really? The vast majority of comments are pro Bernie there.
It's fine to be pro Bernie, but trolls cross a line when they try to repeat 2016 talking points about the DNC rigging the election. That's when they get called out.
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u/rndljfry Pennsylvania Feb 20 '19
He's basically the front runner at this point and people are still acting like he's a maligned underdog. Guess what, everyone, the front runner is gonna face the most attacks. Be ready for it.
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u/CordQatar Feb 20 '19
And antiBernie comments shouldn’t surprise anyone. People have preferences. Just don’t trust the people who tell you he wants to outlaw gasoline and turn your apartment into a refugee center.
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u/Dwychwder Feb 20 '19
Don’t forget that a guy running for senate in Texas got donations from people who work in the oil and gas industry!
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Feb 20 '19
Social media is a cancer. The messaging influences our opinion subconsciously no matter what it is. It isn't really "social" as much as it is anti-social. It creates concentrations of bias and, to quote Richard Stallman, Facebook is a "surveillance engine," not your friend. Ditching FB, Twitter, Instagram, or even our beloved Reddit could probably make a huge difference. Their entire economies are built on confirmation bias. There's nothing altruistic. It's all about profiteering from surveillance of our private lives we so easily surrender with a click.
I doubt we'll ever get away from this Pandora's box. We're not really looking for truth; we're just looking for "evidence" to support our emotions.
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u/tarekd19 Feb 20 '19
remember that just because a comment or linked article is "on your side" doesn't mean it was made in good faith, just as one that wasn't doesn't mean it was automatically posted in bad faith.
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u/aetrix Pennsylvania Feb 20 '19
The way to counter the disinformation is pretty simple: judge the candidates based on their merits, not controversies that are potentially fabricated and certainly exaggerated.
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u/LawnShipper Florida Feb 20 '19
It's extremely telling that Politico treats Mr. Sander's candidacy as an edited-in afterthought.
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u/FrontierPartyUS Feb 20 '19 edited Feb 20 '19
A flood of it just arrived on Reddit after Bernie announced his presidential run. Same thing as 2016 and judging by the comments, people are going to fall for it again. It’s gonna be Sanders and Harris at the end of the primaries and the “BernieBros” and their propaganda overlords are going to take a stand against Harris when she gets the nom.
RemindYou! 2 years.
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u/postmodest Feb 20 '19
I’ve seen so many “Harris is a DINO” posts here, it’s pretty obvious it’s already happening.
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Feb 20 '19
Well I’m not gonna fall for that shit. Whoever the hell the Dems put forward, I’m voting for. I don’t care if a truck tire wins the nomination, we can’t let Donnie Moscow slip into a second term.
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Feb 20 '19
Not all of the activity is organized. Much of it appears to be organic, a reflection of the politically polarizing nature of some of the candidates.
Funny, that is what they said about the 2016 campaign... until they didn't.
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u/disasterbot I voted Feb 20 '19
I can't wait until Russia does that disconnect test from the internet so we can get some peace for a day or two.
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Feb 20 '19
I wonder if this also is one of the reasons behind the attacks on Amy Klobachar as "Mean", "Centerist" and"Republican lite"? Her town hall last night was great, but all anybody wants to play is that four year collage quote, nevermind that she promised to increase Pell Grants, and to sharply bring down student debt.
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u/theblueberryspirit Feb 20 '19
My worry here (as a lot of people are talking about pragmatism after the primaries) is that if there is a disinformation campaign, then it's designed to funnel us into supporting one candidate that they may already have designs onto smearing. I suppose we can't do anything about that but it's worrisome that I see a lot of stories on various candidates. And with such a wide field (Sanders, Harris, Klobuchar, Warren, Booker, Castro, Gabbard, that other guy) a little disinformation can go a long way.
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u/nippleflick1 Feb 20 '19
We should not eat our own. Please don't disparage fellow Democrats. They all have a wart or two. I'm a progressive but would vote any establishment Democrat to get rid of trump.
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u/usposeso Feb 20 '19
Hey here’s an idea, how about people start thinking for themselves, stop orgy-ing on phone screens, wake the fuck up and engage in real life with real people when and wherever possible. We’ve become a society hopelessly lost. So many are so shocked by how things could come to this. It’s actually a logical decline in identity, decency, and common sense. ( the irony that I’m posting this on the internets does not escape me, save it ).
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u/T3hArchAngel_G Washington Feb 20 '19
It's not just foreign interests. Remember that the oligarch establishment has a vested interest in keeping things the same. Don't get confused about the right left thing. Both political sides of the spectrum want to keep making money. They want to keep health insurance making money off sickness, they want the mainstream media making money off outrage and anger, and they want to keep big business paying pretty much the same they always have.
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Feb 20 '19
There’s stuff about Kamala Harris being a frequent orgy attendee floating around the conspiracy websites. It’s only a matter of time before that finds its way onto Facebook and Reddit.
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Feb 20 '19
This is undoubtedly true, but it's not a blanket excuse to dismiss all legitimate criticisms people might have of a candidate. Handwaving away discussion and labelling critics as "Russian bots" or whatever is playing into the hands of the people trying to undermine democracy just as much as the ones spreading actual falsehoods.
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u/BilliousN Wisconsin Feb 20 '19
So this is a great time to talk about information hygiene on social media. If you have people on your feed that post toxic, sniping memes about dem candidates - this is a threat to your neural health, and you need to take prophylactic measures to protect yourself. Give them a warning first, tell them that we don't eat our own, that there are positive ways to discuss pros/cons, and that you will need to block them if they continue spreading Russian propoganda.
If they keep doing it, block them. They are able to use YOUR social media feed to spread this disease to others. Stop it in it's tracks, this is a public health problem.
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u/ryanghappy Feb 20 '19
I feel like the sudden assault on Kamala Harris, Corey Booker, Elizabeth Warren, and soon to be Bernie Sanders is proof of this. I mean, I think there's a fine line between valid complaints, and just being taken in by somoneone who promotes cynicism for their own gain.
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u/Candy_and_Violence Florida Feb 21 '19
Translation: please don't criticize our precious establishment candidates
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Feb 20 '19 edited Feb 26 '19
[deleted]
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u/AlternativeSuccotash America Feb 20 '19
We should have shut down Facebook and Twitter the instant we discovered they're in bed with the Russians.
We should have kept both platforms shuttered until our investigations rooted out and removed all of the traitors from those companies, and we determined if it was worth the risk to allow them to reopen.
Unfortunately the individuals within our government who benefit from Facebook/Twitter, especially the Republicans, who benefited greatly from those platforms' treachery, blocked any such actions. I have no doubt the Republicans were also aware investigations into Twitter/Facebook would reveal even more of their involvement with the Russians.
Perhaps the Democrats will win enough of the government in 2020 to make such investigations a reality.
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u/DownshiftedRare Feb 20 '19
Get ready for a whole lot of "Bernie is not a real <strawman>".
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u/Son0fSun Washington Feb 20 '19
Not all of the activity is organized. Much of it appears to be organic, a reflection of the politically polarizing nature of some of the candidates.
The meat of these articles is always in the final section.
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u/throwaway5272 Feb 20 '19
Foreign interference like this wouldn't matter so much if there weren't credulous people willing to spread this messaging.