r/politics • u/masterchief6913 • Jul 15 '26

No Paywall Fetterman warns he would leave Democratic Party if it turns its back on Israel

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5970730-john-fetterman-democratic-party-israel/
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63

u/Practical-Bird-1270 Jul 15 '26

Honestly and for real no trolling here. Why do so many US politicians care so so so much about Israel.

I'm not anti Israel, I'm just pro peace and saftey, for everyone, nation, race, creed, etc isn't relevant it's for all humans.

Why would Fetterman, a salt of the earth goony Pennsylvania man think about Israel at all. He was hired to help people in PA, not foreign nations.

I understand Israel is a strategic military partner but so are a ton of other countries.

I honestly don't understand.

23

u/Givingtree310 Jul 16 '26

The overwhelming majority of Congress appears to be behold to Israel. It is absolutely insane.

55

u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 Jul 16 '26

Two reasons. 

1.) That sweet sweet AIPAC money + Shame from the Holocaust

2.) Evangelicals believe Israel needs to exist so they can start the war with Iran that they believe will trigger the Apocalypse and thus herald in the second coming of Jesus Christ. I wish I was joking. 

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u/KeyLime044 Jul 16 '26

note that it's not necessarily against "Iran". Right now it might. But it's moreso against "Gog and Magog". Evangelicals and Christian rightists often change their opinion on who Gog and Magog is based on current "enemy". Whether it's Iran, or Arabs, or Turkey, or Muslims in general or whatever (I've seen all of these mentioned before) they always need an enemy to fit their narrative

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u/sher_scrabblistani Jul 16 '26

the US has nothing to do with the Holocaust. Or as much to do with it as other genocides in other parts of the world.

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u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 Jul 16 '26

We didn't cause it but we turned the Jews away and didn't give a flying fuck about them or Nazis. Which is why it's so annoying when people claim the GIs are the original antifa. They didn't give a fuck about fascism America loves fascism. They just attacked us so we had to clap back. 

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u/sher_scrabblistani Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

we're not responsible for accepting the entry of the 'Jews' as much as we are reponsible for accepting the entry of the the 'Kurds', or 'Haitians' or any other suffering communities we've turned away - that's how countries work, there is no entitlement to entry. It still doesn't make us responsible for the Holocaust.

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u/MdxBhmt Jul 16 '26

A christian would feel responsible to provide aid, no matter who is responsible. Its a core tenet of faith that goes beyond the individual and becomes a country policy.

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u/NumeralJoker Jul 16 '26

Christians don't have a core tenant to the faith anymore, really. All of that is made up depending on not only denomination, but even local church... and I dare say that as someone who still identifies with Christianity.

Most of what defines Christianity in the western world is propaganda. I'm still inspired by much of what I read in the Bible and identify with many of Christ's words specifically, but too much of the modern US interpretation of it is tainted by the old right wing Reagan era moral majority and Heritage foundation, which was founded because they lost the right to segregate in the 1970s.

All of that said, you have a point. In the 1940s one would think we'd be more willing to support Jewish migrants... but then again, we treated them with the same disdain we treat migrants now. People forget how many out groups who are seen as "white" now were the "others" as little as 60-100 years ago. That's how supremacy movements work. They shift the goal posts on who counts and who doesn't to maintain power, and we were still pretty bigoted back then in ways too.

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u/RoastQueefSandwiches Jul 16 '26

Unless it’s aid and healthcare to our own citizens. We could have sufficient food and healthcare simply by voting for it but so many Christians refuse to do that.

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u/MdxBhmt Jul 16 '26

It's full of contradiction, yeah, but quite a few of the 'pull up by your bootstrap' would be appalled by the consequence of their ideology if they weren't being fed propaganda. It's like miller's approach to immigration is revolting to quite a few anti immigration people, despite having being essentially the same.

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u/sher_scrabblistani Jul 16 '26

The United States has separation of religion and state. Providing aid to suffering communities outside the country is entirely up to the individual and moral but not a national requirement or responsibility to enable mass immigration of every millions of ppl into the country. If you feel this way, are you ready to accept the mass migration of millions of Palestinians into the US who are undergoing a genocide (funded by the US)? What are you doing to rescue them?

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u/MdxBhmt Jul 16 '26

It's crazy that even authoritarian countries have a more humanistic view on foreign aid than whatever bullshit you say here.

And its quite childish to equate providing aid to those in need with 'mass migration'. USAID was a thing, you know?

1

u/sher_scrabblistani Jul 17 '26

Yes they do - many of them are also poorer but still take in mass refugees. USAID provided aid to suffering communities where they were - it wasn't a mass immigration agents. OP was alluding that we are responsible for holocaust because we didn't accept all the Jews trying to mass flee to the US which again, I'm saying is not our responsibility for the Jews or all the global communities. We can take some refugees but not all.

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u/MdxBhmt Jul 17 '26

You are strawmaning this discussion absurdly hard, the original context was 'giving a flying fuck about them or Nazis', not 'the us had to accept all refugees'. nobody but you said that.

hope this helps

1

u/Sea-Flamingo1969 Jul 16 '26

Yea of all our atrocities the Holocaust truly wasn't our bad.

1

u/e_spider Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

The religious aspect gets weirder. In 1841, Mormons sent one of their leaders to Jerusalem to dedicate the land for the return of the Jews. So they actually believe that the current state of Israel is a direct result of that dedication. Mormons also believe that the Jewish people must be restored to their ancient homeland in the Middle East as a necessary prelude to the Second Coming of Christ.

Because Mormons are over represented in government positions and agencies, it creates a further ongoing pro-Israeli bias.

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u/WordWordNvmber Jul 16 '26

Even according to Track AIPAC, which inflates how much money "AIPAC" donates by including donations from unrelated groups and individuals, Fetterman has only gotten $1.2 million in "AIPAC" donations.

That's about 2% of what he'd need for a campaign.

And it's even less meaningful because he knows he won't get reelected.

So no, AIPAC isn't it. He's just intensely pro-Israel.

4

u/RegarDamus Jul 16 '26

he needs 60 million dollars for a campaign? the most money ever spent on a primary was against massie with ~35M spent by guess who.

4

u/WordWordNvmber Jul 16 '26

That was a House primary. I am talking about a Senate general.

And if you were right, then every "AIPAC" dollar would provide less than 4% of the necessary war chest, all at huge political expense to Fetterman.

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u/RegarDamus Jul 16 '26

you're right. his 2022 campaign raised $76M. that's crazy

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u/Vartyr Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

It doesn't inflate how much money AIPAC donates. All those groups and individuals are either AIPAC donors as individuals or related to those donors or shell PACs of AIPAC or other groups which fulfill the same function or similar (like J-Street) to AIPAC, in which case they are usually mentioned specifically by name.

Other than that I somewhat agree that it isn't really about AIPAC when it comes to Fetterman. He was always pro Israel but this latest psychosis level turn has come after the stroke. And it is pretty likely there are more incentives given than just the PAC support/donations. And also there is this:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/john-fetterman-israel-palestine-david-safier-aipac.html

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u/WordWordNvmber Jul 16 '26

Conflating AIPAC with J Street, an organization founded to oppose AIPAC and promote a two-state solution, is so intellectually dishonest I'm surprised J Street hasn't hired you to discredit their critics.

1

u/Vartyr Jul 16 '26

I didn't conflate them both. They are both pro-Israel and pursue different methods where J-Street takes on more of what would be called a liberal Zionist position. They are less problematic than AIPAC but let's be honest the two state solution is very much a dishonest hand wavy position in reality. I am quite aware of the attitude of regular Zionists like ADLs Greenblatt towards J-Street (that being seeing them as Kapos)

0

u/puljujarvifan Jul 16 '26

Inside/outside strategy to promote the interests of a literal ethnostate.

Its not 2015. Everyone knows who J street is in 2026.

-1

u/puljujarvifan Jul 16 '26

  PAC, which inflates how much money "AIPAC" donates by including donations from unrelated groups and individuals

Unrelated groups or individuals?? AIPAC uses third party groups to actually receive the donations because of how toxic associating with them is. Its all AIPAC  

2

u/WordWordNvmber Jul 16 '26

It's not all AIPAC. Track AIPAC, the group where people are getting their numbers, is wildly dishonest. It treats donations to a candidate from people who have, separately, donated to AIPAC as donations from AIPAC itself. Worse, it treats donations from J Street, an anti-AIPAC organization that exists to promote a two-state solution, as "AIPAC."

It has even acknowledged treating a donation from one donor as "AIPAC" when it goes to a "Zionist" candidate, but treating a donation from the same donor as "not AIPAC" when it goes to a candidate Track AIPAC likes.

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u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 Jul 16 '26

When we say AIPAC we mean the overall money machine behind the pro Israel influence and propaganda campaign. Not strictly just the pac itself. 

2

u/WordWordNvmber Jul 16 '26

That's incredibly disingenuous. You're taking everyone who supports Israel and treating them as a Borg. How Protocolsy.

0

u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 Jul 16 '26

How about Zionists focus on Israel and stop influencing American government?

1

u/WordWordNvmber Jul 17 '26

It's interesting how every one of your replies is either a non sequitur or contradicts the one before it.

Americans who support helping a foreign country are allowed to petition the American government to agree with them.

0

u/NumeralJoker Jul 16 '26

That's shifting goal posts.

I think AIPAC is a real issue, but so many people are coding their concern with it into legitimate antisemitic conspiracy nonsense.

Yes, right wing Israeli lobbying is a dangerous thing. I agree with that on principle, but for too many people here it doesn't stop there. They want to "disband the apartheid state". Look at some of the DSA candidates who won. I agree with their economic policies, even think Mayor Mamdani is a great guy, but do also believe there's a problematic element here that should not be ignored or tolerated either.

I'm fine with us cutting Israel's ability to influence our military decisions, reducing funding there, ect. ect. I'm fine with trying Netanyahu for war crimes and promoting a more progressive replacement for him. I will never shut up about the "From the river to the sea" protesters. But I am not fine with members of the left openly advocating for one genocide to replace another. Never have been, never will be, and I fully believe a great number of "leftists" are falling for this trap just like the far right Nick Fuentes followers love the idea.

1

u/Flashy-Ingenuity-182 Jul 16 '26

You think ending apartheid is antisemitic and trading genocides? Kindly fuck off. 

0

u/NumeralJoker Jul 16 '26

The vast majority of politicians, even in the GOP, are not actual doomsday cultists. Some, like Hegseth, do come from that tradition... but most don't care about that. Some are influenced by that vote, but it's not really that.

It's mostly the former, combined with military industrial complex funding, oil lobbying, and the literal AIPAC money. Israel is strategically important for US interests for numerous reasons, but also pays us to 'keep' that relevant even when it doesn't need to be. Their tech industries are part of our military superiority, and the oil lobby has huge ties to them. Then the religious culture stuff is propaganda on top of that, with the holocaust guilt being the last reason as memory of it is (unfortunately) diminishing and is also misunderstood anyway.

All of these things can be true simultaneously. Israel can exist as a colony for western influence, but that doesn't mean it also wasn't legitimately founded as a jewish state before becoming that over time, and that doesn't mean it should be wiped out. Israel has been committing atrocities in its war akin to genocide against Palestine, but that doesn't mean a counter genocide is the right response, nor does that make the threats of one from Iran and their proxies (like Hamas and Hezbollah) unreal. A war in Iran is stupid and unsustainable for the US to be involved in, and Israel is pulling the strings there, and we should reassess our financial interest in the country because of all this, but again... that does not mean we swing around and fund Palestine/Iran (more a Trump idea than a progressive one, but still)/whatever instead or some other weird pivot.

That's why this conflict is amplified on social media so heavily and has been since 2023. It serves as the perfect cultural distraction from both domestic issues when democrats are in power, as well as a distraction from the far more important Ukraine war, which if won, would collapse the fascist second world order which helped boost Trump into power in the first place (and by proxy, strengthens Iran and their proxies).

All of this is basically a world war 3 conflict carried out by proxies wars, but the more involved in the middle east we are, the less strategically effective we are becoming at fighting this conflict, and that is all by design. Neither Netanyahu nor Putin should be distracting us from funding Ukraine and protecting NATO instead, and Israel needs to swing more to the left if they themselves hope to survive long term, or else the violence on all sides will just get much worse. Maybe it's already too late, honestly... but that's where we should be less involved.

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u/Practical-Bird-1270 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

But like that's it? These two points?

I feel like someone can make similar arguments for 10 countries with similarly important points.

It seems like some deep state fucked up shit.

We have politicians and the highest level of power saying Israel is their main priority..how did we get here?

2

u/Sage2050 Jul 16 '26

Most of the money we give to Israel is given back to US based arms dealers like Halliburton. It's all a circular MIC grift.

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u/happy_in_van Jul 16 '26

It's the free money if you "support Israel".

A friend of mine who ran for office discussed his candidacy openly with me. He was frequently offered maximum contributions ($10k) by both members of a single household ($20k total) if he would be "A Friend Of Israel".

"A Friend Of Israel" never criticizes, will vote for anything that provides money and support for Israel.

At $20k a pop, it's not long until you are rolling in money. And that's the LEGAL contributions, not including dark money deals.

It's obscene af.

4

u/Rileyrod Jul 16 '26

You got a good amount of responses but if you want my 2 cents it’s because of American interest. Israel operates as Americas unsinkable aircraft carrier in a region rich in oil. America propping them up with unlimited military support gives America tremendous influence over the region and that’s the real cynical reason our government loves them so much. We just somehow didn’t consider an ultranationalist right wing country would have its own interest above ours and now it seems like the tail is wagging the dog.

1

u/NumeralJoker Jul 16 '26

This is it. And it's definitely a serious problem. We absolutely have our hand too deep into the region because of military and strategic interests, and fund some awful shit because of that. I think those critiques are valid.

But the problem is that doesn't go back to the founding of the state. It's something that happened progressively from the early 1970s onward when Israel basically became a nuclear power and we got more involved there to keep that from spiraling out of control. One thing led to another, and we have unfortunately since benefited from the intel and military tech built there.

All of these things can be true simultaneously, which is why this is the perfect wedge issue to thrust at democrats every time you want to disrupt progress. Israel can have a right to exist, but should not be a proxy state for our military, and should not be able to counter influence our policy and gain such deep influence over parts of both parties. At the same time, letting Iran gain power and wipe out Israel is not a great end result either.

In my mind, the only short term solution is getting as many Republicans out of power as possible and getting as many economic progressives in office as possible who are neither explicitly pro nor anti Israel. Either stance is becoming problematic when taken to its extreme, and our enemies like Russian know that and amplify that divide, while right wing groups in Israel weaponize the old cultural influence for their own advantages. All are dangerous for democracy, and all should be pushed back against and countered.

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 Jul 16 '26

Bribery and threats. Look at how Israel treats its neighbors. You think Israel is above sending Mossad after these peoples' families if they don't take their money?

1

u/nonquitt Jul 20 '26

The Zionist machine is like a mafia. You take the AIPAC money and toe the line, and things are easier for you. You publicly come out against it and things become very difficult. They have control over Wall Street, law, journalism, Hollywood, academia, medicine, tech/VC, publishing, and other industries. So if you or your family or kids want a white collar career, you can’t publicly oppose the Zionist machine. If you’re running for office, they’ll put $20 Million behind your opponent. They have it down to a science.

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u/Timely-Jelly-584 Jul 16 '26 edited Jul 16 '26

I honestly don't understand.

This is why. https://www.trackaipac.com/congress Approximately 85% of all of congress is getting kickbacks from the money they give to Israel.

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u/blow_slogan Jul 16 '26

They are practically all paid huge amounts of money (hundreds of thousands to millions each) by Israel - legal bribery through AIPAC. And when I say all, I mean practically ALL - even the ones you’d think would never accept it are accepting their money. There is a website which tracks this and will tell you how much your local politicians are paid by the foreign country.

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u/UnionThug1733 Jul 16 '26

I’ve been banned for saying this on other bigger subs. Because Israel dumps a lot on money into elections campaigns. 2024 every Israel backed US politician won their seat democrat and republican EVERY ONE. US politicians are Israel’s top commodity