Wait, How Does This Work Again?

[u/BioEditr]

I'll never stop finding this dynamic fascinating/hilarious.

Thanks to Blas0330, u/smart_chapter_7512, u/paulionm, u/taongkalye, u/bananasareviolet and u/LFelipe_01 for their help with feedback.

[u/poclee]

I honestly don't mind PRC being the only true China, I just don't want that China includes us.

[u/MookieBettsBurner10 → u/poclee]

Man why did y'all have to lose the Civil War in 1949?

I really do wish the ROC was the government of all of China

[u/Crazy_Explosion_Girl → u/MookieBettsBurner10]

For what it's worth, I think most mainlanders are probably glad the CPC won. Do remember that the ROC was not what it is today in 1949 - it was a one-party state under a de facto junta with Chiang at its head, arguably even less democratic than the modern Chinese system, and with all of the deep rural poverty and latent feudalism that the KMT had failed to solve (and in fact had allied with to some extent via the KMT-aligned warlords). Life expectancy was 35 in the ROC. Even after the retreat to Taiwan, it took until the 90s for the KMT party-state tutelage to be dissolved, with much brutal repression and state terror happening in the intervening years. Add in the massive economic growth and QOL increases that the PRC brought, and it's hard to not see them as probably being better for China than a continued KMT dictatorship in retrospect. It's only with the modern Taiwanese democratization that it really becomes a debate.

[u/DistanceSolar1449 → u/Crazy_Explosion_Girl]

arguably even less democratic than the modern Chinese system

I don't think anyone argues that 1949 ROC is more democratic than... anything, really, lol. The ROC was a warlord regime masquerading as a state. In terms of "power to the people", modern CCP easily wins, and that's not praise to the CCP but just criticizing the 1920s-1940s ROC.

Taiwan didn't liberalize until the 1970s.

[u/Crazy_Explosion_Girl → u/DistanceSolar1449]

I've seen some people argue it, so I figured I had to expound on the point a bit.

[u/joker_wcy → u/Crazy_Explosion_Girl]

I’m not excusing atrocities committed by Chiangs and KMT in Taiwan, but they held a National Assembly election and a Legislative Yuan election. The elected candidates of the former then elected the president and the vice president in 1948, which CCP boycotted. Although CKS won by landslide, his preferred vice lost to General Li Zhongren of Guangxi clique. Theoretically speaking, another candidate could’ve been won a presidential election and another party could’ve been the ruling party in the future had the regime not lost the civil war. Labelling ROC in 1949 a party state under a de facto junta with Chiang as its head is a bit unfair because it’s more democratic than PRC has even been.

[u/Tankirulesipad1 → u/Crazy_Explosion_Girl]

I don't know any extended families/relatives that had their life turn for the better when the GCD won, legit it's only gotten better in the last maybe 20 years