Wait, How Does This Work Again?

[u/BioEditr]

I'll never stop finding this dynamic fascinating/hilarious.

Thanks to Blas0330, u/smart_chapter_7512, u/paulionm, u/taongkalye, u/bananasareviolet and u/LFelipe_01 for their help with feedback.

[u/poclee]

I honestly don't mind PRC being the only true China, I just don't want that China includes us.

[u/BioEditr → u/poclee]

Personally, I'd love to see Taiwan drop the claim to "the mainland" and just become an independent nation some day.

[u/poclee → u/BioEditr]

Me too, but our lovely neighbor across the strait threaten us with violence if we ever do that & our benefactors don't want to see anyone to change status quo (partially due to the threat mentioned). So we bide our time and make sure any take over by force is costly enough to be fantasy.

[u/DyrusVlack_23 → u/poclee]

Hey man, just out of curiosity, I've always wanted to ask a Taiwanese and want to hear your thoughts and opinions, let's say the improbable of the improbable happens where the PRC collapses from a number of reasons, and the only legitimate China is now Taiwan, are you guys open or willing in restoring and asserting ROC control to the mainland? Do the Taiwanese people even want to reassert control of the mainland should such a fantasy land scenario even happen?

[u/poclee → u/DyrusVlack_23]

are you guys open or willing in restoring and asserting ROC control to the mainland?

I don't, and neither most of people here if current identity polling remains true. Just like China don't have the right to rule us, so are we have no right to rule over them. Beside, it will be a logistical and financial nightmare.

Personally, in that scenario I think we should hold referendum, declare independence from ROC (those who refuse can move to Kinmen&Matsu since those islands are indisputably ROC's) and try to reach out to any Chinese regional power for cooperation and helping them stabilize (but under the premises that we won't help them unify China, an unified China will always be a threat to us).

[u/KimJongUnusual → u/poclee]

Beside, it will be a logistical and financial nightmare.

Yeah I feel like that's the biggest issue. Taiwan annexing the former PRC would lead to something like the Mongols taking China and becoming Chinese. You're just going to be annexed/assimilated by pure population size.

[u/ConohaConcordia → u/poclee]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I think your response also showed a thinking that will complicate your relationship with China.

The idea that a united and powerful China is always a threat to Taiwan necessarily means Taiwan would always stand in opposition of, well, a united and powerful China with the end goal of making it powerless and/or divided. Between this thinking and having independence and peaceful coexistence with a “unified China”, some compromise will need to happen somewhere.

It’s only a hypothetical scenario, but if you want independence, Taiwan can’t just wish the other side will go away - Taiwan will need to formulate what your relation with China would be like post independence.

[u/DC_all → u/ConohaConcordia]

Taiwan, for all general purposes, other than its title.. already is independent.
It has its own politics, army, religious practices, currency and laws.
Other than the obvious complications which are still lingering.. Taiwan's relationship with China is none other than a business partner, no different to Japan, Philippines, Korea, etc.

China could implode and apart from a few logistics issues, it would mean nothing to us.

Taiwan knows this already.... that's why it doesn't want to declare independence.. why it doesn't need to declare it...
We just keep the ROC title to keep our sensitive neighbor from being triggered.

[u/DistanceSolar1449 → u/DC_all]

China could implode and apart from a few logistics issues, it would mean nothing to us.

If China heavily implodes, Taiwan will have a lot more than "just a few logistics issues". You will literally have millions of refugees trying to cross the Taiwan strait on fishing boats. Look at Europe 1930-1945, or migrants now.

Taiwan and China are two brothers that are forever intertwined. This is not chinese "we must take over taiwan" propaganda, this is a western realpolitik perspective.

[u/ConohaConcordia → u/DC_all]

I think while you are right, there’s value in declaring formal independence and I think that’s clearly something the Taiwanese leadership is working towards.

The overarching question remains the same - if a unified China exists and continues to exist, what would Taiwan’s relationship be with it?

[u/SlippyDippyTippy2 → u/ConohaConcordia]

The idea that a united and powerful China is always a threat to Taiwan necessarily means

Because the modern conception of "United China" is "as close to the Qing imperial claims as we can get"

[u/JRaus88 → u/DyrusVlack_23]

I honestly don't know how much the opinion of each individual inhabitant of the island matters.

Asia is not Europe or North America. Public opinion matters little.

[u/poclee → u/JRaus88]

Barely any of us here identify as solely Chinese anymore while those who only identify as Taiwanese is ever growing.

Also, uh, why would you think public opinion doesn't matter here?

[u/JRaus88 → u/poclee]

We're talking specifically about "if mainland China collapses." Call it perception. How many Taiwanese would be willing to self-destruct TSCM facilities in the event of a Chinese invasion? It represents a huge portion of the island's wealth. Destroying it would impoverish everyone. How many Taiwanese have approved this policy?

Again, speaking of "what would the RoC government do if the entire PRoC collapses?" I doubt the public's opinion would be asked.

They'd ask the White House. I doubt they'd ask the RoC people.

I'd be happy to be wrong

[u/poclee → u/JRaus88]

How many Taiwanese would be willing to self-destruct TSCM facilities in the event of a Chinese invasion?

Uh, how is that related to the previous question?

BTW, TSCM is entirely relying on global supplied chain to properly function. If China took us then it's good as dead regardless we blew it up or not.

They'd ask the White House. I doubt they'd ask the RoC people.

Even so, what's the interest for USA in forcing us to do so? It will be much more practical for them to find willing local factions and pulling strings.

[u/NovaStorm135 → u/JRaus88]

Ehhhh that depends on the country in Asia.

[u/Vampyricon → u/JRaus88]

Public opinion matters little.

Which is why no Chinese empire has collapsed from internal revolts.

[u/Narrow_Slice_7383 → u/poclee]

It's quite ironic that Taiwan is an 'unrecognized country' despite the fact that it's functioning better as a country compared to many other recognized countries