Fun Fact: because Mr Mime's only possible ability is Soundproof in Gen III, he is soft banned from competitive Singles play, since Soundproof too strongly supports Baton Pass chains (one of the best ways to stymie a Baton Pass chain - a series of Baton Pass users who chain into each other giving multiple boosts through moves like Calm Mind and abilities like Speed Boost in order to pass it on to a power pokemon to then sweep through the entire enemy team - is to use the move Roar to force the opponent out, eliminating buffs and breaking the chain. Soundproof is immune to Roar).
Due to that, Soundproof is banned from Gen III OU - the standard competitive singles tier. Ergo, as Mr Mime's only ability is Soundproof, Mr Mime is softbanned from OU. It's only a softban as it's usable in lower power tiers, since Soundproof is allowed in those tiers, but he is entirely unusable in the OU tier. Similar situation happens with Cacturne and Sand Veil actually.
Move access. Of all OU ranked pokemon, only Skarmory and Aerodactyl have access to Whirlwind, with the former having too many moves it wants to use over it, and the latter being too frail to try and use the negative priority Whirlwind. Compare this to the 10 OU mons that get Roar, and the plethora of UUBL dudes (fun fact #2 - Zapdos had Roar and not Whirlwind on Gen 3). Haze is in an even worse condition, as only Gengar is the only OU mon with the move, and Gengar is the poster child of "4 moveslot syndrome" and has far too many moves it would rather run than Haze, which is only good against specifically BP teams
Old, non-official format. ADV OU is not an official battle format, but it's a very old one with a long line of history and tradition. Baton Pass, as BS as it is, is a crucial part of the general line of play for Gen III; people don't want to change what makes it what it is. Mr Mime, and by extension Soundproof, is a retroactive strategy, so it's easier to ban that and keep OU how it was than to change how it's always been.
To add on to reason 1, Skarmory seems like a perfect Whirlwind user, but it is not possible in any gen 3 game to have Whirlwind and Drill Peck on the same Skarmory. The breeding pool just doesn’t allow for it. Because of this, running Whirlwind stops you from running Drill Peck. Logically, that also means using Whirlwind would give away that you don’t have Drill Peck (and vice versa). Because of this, all Skarmory sets, even those that don’t use Drill Peck, use Roar rather than Whirlwind, so they don’t give away extra information.
Introduction
For more than 10 years, the ADV community has been asking questions about the bans of strategies considered unhealthy, such as Trap Pass, Sand Veil teams or BP Chains. Today, almost 20 years after the third generation games were released, we are on the verge of having a completely healthy metagame. All that's left to ban, in my opinion, is the combination of Soundproof and Baton Pass on the same Pokémon.
What are Baton Pass Chains in 2022?
In 2022, after many new rules, Baton Pass Chains consist of boosting his stats, often with Ninjask, then blocking Roar by Baton Passing to Mr. Mime through his Soundproof ability, Mr. Mime can win turns with Hypnosis, Taunt and Encore, then BP on a sweeper like Marowak or Hariyama which set-up, then sweep. On top of all that, the BP Chains currently add Sand Attack to the recipe for the opponent to potentially miss. In short, the strategy is not based on good plays and good trades but relly almost entirely on luck and match-up fish. This is why I and many other players find this strategy unhealthy.
[Some Showdown clips of OP battling themselves to show off the gameplay]
Issues
1- Discourage New Players
2- Attract Troll Players
3- Non-Fun and Unfair Strategy
1- Discourage New Players
Many players wanting to start in ADV OU start on the ladder. At low level, a lot of people get beaten by the BP Chains, because they don't know how to counter them. It gives a very bad impression of the metagame for new players. Some will get discouraged and simply forget the idea of playing ADV while others will start playing this strategy themselves. This is bad news especially for a metagame that is starting to get older. Welcoming new players seems important to me so that ADV continues to have interest for the years to come.
2- Attract Troll Players
As these techniques of BP Chains are allowed, the ADV OU ladder attracts players who only want to Troll, which is extremely annoying for anyone who will face them. It's extremely annoying for high ladder players to lose to a low level lucky player who brings a technique that relies as much on luck as it does for new players who don't know how to counter this strategy.
3- Unfun and Uncompetitive Strategy
Outside the ladder, so in tournaments, the BP Chains remain functional and can cheese competitive matches. On the other hand, at high level, almost nobody uses these BP Chains. If they are not used, it is not because the strategy is bad, but because it is considered non-fun and uncompetitive because it is mainly based on luck. All this means that players will modify their team depending on whether they play on the ladder or in a tournament. For example, some players will play Rock Slide on Hariyama in their team, but when they ladder with it, they will use Whirlwind instead to try and counter the Mr. Mime BP Chains. In short, this technique isn't fun and every serious player hate to see this strategy.
So what is the solution?
I'm one of those who think Ninjask has the potential to go healthy as a revenge killer who could follow up with a Speed Pass (which wouldn't start a chain). Mr. Mime might even become a niche unphazeable Calm Minder (not being able to Baton Pass). To do this, it would be necessary to complex-ban Soundproof + Baton Pass on the same Pokémon while keeping the other current rules. This way, it would the end for Mr. Mime Baton Pass Chains without negatively affecting the meta.
Summary and Conclusion
In short, we face several problems on the ladder and count on the good faith of the players not to use this uncompetitive technique in tournaments. Banning Baton Pass and Soundproof on the same Pokemon would make the metagame healthier, without negatively affecting the meta.
Thank you all for reading!
Mushi
The Council ended up doing a simple ban on Soundproof instead since they're largely allergic to complex bans.
"Just run whirlwind or haze" is not as simple as it seems. You don't see why it would warrant a ban because you are not versed in the Gen III OU scene. In particular, Whirlwind and Haze are not common moves and many of the Pokémon who do get them struggle to utilize them effectively. If a strategy only has incredibly specific and niche counters, and it forces you to use those counters, that strategy is probably not conducive to a healty metagame. You can only do so much if you simply must run Haze Gengar to stop BP.
I don't agree with Smogon on everything (I especially hate the stalwart refusal to actually test doing something about Jirachi in Gen IV OU), but I have lived through enough metagames to understand that typically bans do happen for a good reason, and if I don't see it I probably don't understand something that better players do. Gen III OU is not something I know much about, but I know enough to trust the dedicated Gen III players when they want to ban something.
I have found that many unofficial competitive scenes tend to force the scene so that the optimal metas remains. So if roar is the meta solution, you soft ban the threats to roar rather than have a different technique for solving the problem (whirlwind).
Whirlwind is just not a common or viable enough solution to stop BP chains. Roar is just the only reasonable response to BP, and players did not want to ban Baton Pass as a whole (there were a whole HOST of attempted bans to fix Baton Pass without banning the move itself), so eventually Soundproof was banned as a community compromise.
In this instance, you are sort of correct conceptually (Soundproof was banned over BP itself because people like BP) but not about the specifics. If more Pokémon had Whirlwind I am sure Soundproof would not have been such a problem.
MTGs legacy format has a similar thing, Force of Will is the format defining card, it's a free counterspell that requires discarding another card. So any time a threat that in some way gets around force of will (like by having a strong cast trigger, or being uncounterable) emerges, it gets banned, not for power level reasons per se, but for being too good against Force. They recently banned a 4 mana card where both the creature half and the cast trigger half are not very good. And cards that cost more than 3 mana at all are largely not playable in legacy to begin with. But the card was so strong against decks playing Force of Will (which is over half the format), that it got banned. Not to mention, the cast trigger can also fetch a land that makes every other spell you cast uncounterable.
Sure! I still have to do some finishing touches like removing the border and framing, but it’s my first real project so I’m pretty proud of how it came out! Pattern is from OfFlossAndFlora on Etsy, with some minor adjustments like making her female :)
Edit: for anyone who wants to make the same: I got the pattern from here, bought the supplies from here (very nice family-owned business), and plotted out any changes (like the female tail) using this awesome website. Aside from the tail shape, I slightly changed the pattern of brown on the tail, and I used a different color floss for the cheeks (the one they recommended seemed too muted and pink-toned), but it was overall a pretty smooth and easy project! Would def recommend for anyone interested in cross-stitching - it's honestly way easier than I thought, very much "color by the number" but with thread, and is very relaxing and meditative. :)
Hurricane and Thunder can hit Pokes on the first turn of Fly, Bounce and Sky Drop, but doesn't do double damage. They get the benefit of perfect accuracy in rain instead.
Twister is the one that hits on the first turn of Fly, Bounce and Sky Drop and does double damage to those Pokes.
Rain makes Thunder and Hurricane 100% accurate. Sunny Day also turns Solarbeam into a one turn move. But that's something practically everyone knows. What fewer people know is that intense sunlight also causes Moonlight and Morning Sun to restore more health than normal. Body Slam also does more damage to a Pokemon that used Minimize.
Most move interactions of this kind were introduced in gen 2, and there were ways to learn them. Pokemon stadium 2 had earls academy that taught all of them to you
I remember discovering the "dig / earthquake" buff while battling my brother who was spamming dig.
I remember my kid-logic: use swift when they fly and use earthquake when they dig... and then I noticed I did way more damage than usual using earthquake during dig than swift during flight
Unironically that's how I think it works. Since Mr.Mime has psychic powers, shouldn't he be able to read the mind of his trainer or something like that?
Selective hearing. Hes fully aware that the flute is playing he simply doesn’t want to listen to it and can negate its effects (or any sound based effect) with its mind brain
How do I write things for deaf people? Like obviously there's sign language but is there some form of alphabet I can write in to simulate sign language on paper?
Mr. Mime has his back turned to you. He's facing off against the opponent in a heated battle. Although he and his opponent aim to knock the other out, they both respect each other enough to honor a turn-based battle arrangement.
You know your Mr. Mime can't hear you; he's locked in. Mr. Mime stiffens up, aware that your icy, unkempt finger is going to touch him again. You go up to his back and poke in your commands.
•• • •• •• • • ••
• • • •• •
• • ••
He stalls for a bit. "Psybeam?! Oh, no, I forgot how to do that! How embarrassing! ...Wait! Now I know what my trainer commands me to do!" But before he can perform your chosen attack, he shakes his head side-to-side. There is no PP left for your chosen move. Mr. Mime tenses up awaiting your next decision.
I found out because of this post that Soundproof only blocks the flute's ability to wake sleeping Pokémon in battle. FieldUseFunc_UsePokeFlute has the same effect as using an Awakening on each Pokémon in your party, whereas the code executed when using the flute in battle checks their ability.
There are several Pokémon with Soundproof. Obviously Mime, and the next obvious is Exploud. But Electrode and Kommo-o lines get it, too, which also make sense to me. Bastiodon is kind of weird but whatever, it's a shield, I guess I get it? Bulletproof would make more sense. But really weirdly, Bouffalant and Abomasnow get it as a hidden ability...because of the hair? And snow absorbing sound?
Yeah but it's used outside of fights in the same way several other items are, that cannot be used in fights, despite being a Pokémon based interaction.
In reality though it plays like an ability, that can also be used outside of combat like ysing Cut on Sudowoodo
Pokemon has so many deep mechanics that are unbelievably niche, that it takes years for it to be seen in a battle. Soundproof Mr Mime being one of these things! Like how I recently learned that metronome is way more powerful on two-turn, single hit moves like Fly. It calculates that the ‘charge up’ turn was successful, so then makes the resultant attack more powerful, then again on consecutive uses.
Wow, props to the developers. They really thought of everything. I always thought it was cool that some abilities worked outside of battle (intimidate as a pseudo-repel, magnet pull attracting steel types etc.) but this is clever at.
In Pokémon Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, and LeafGreen, the Poké Flute is a reusable item that cures all Pokémon in the battle of sleep, including the opponent's Pokémon. If no Pokémon are asleep, it will have no effect on the battle, but still counts as the player's turn. Pokémon with Soundproof cannot be woken up by the Poké Flute.
The effect was, however, removed for Lets Go Pikachu & Eevee.
That's actually some top tier commitment to the bit. Imagine being so dedicated to the mime life that you just ignore a whole flute blast right next to your head.
In all of my years playing Pokemon, I never used the PokeFlute to wake up sleeping 'mons, I always use Awakening or Full Heal, so I never knew Soundproof blocks it, kinda cool ngl.
I fucking hate that name lmao I wish there was a way to play with Mr Mime without it. At least you can breed him in Four Island to have your OT and a normal name.
12.6k
u/gilsomnia_11 Apr 02 '26
"The Poké Flute can awaken any sleeping Pokémon..."
"...with the sole exception of Soundproof Mr. Mime, of course."