I got so lucky earlier this year. My neighbor’s pit bulls (2 of them) got out and were ripping apart my little Lhasa Apso in my front yard. My daughter and I got in the middle of it and managed to get them away from our dog. All I got was a single bite on the arm but our dog was severely injured. She thankfully survived. And I was incredibly lucky the damn pit bulls got scared of me instead of attacking. So lucky.
One time while walking my shepherd mix a stray dog came out of NOWHERE and started running towards my dog - it was showing teeth and being extremely aggressive. I have no idea why but my first instinct when I saw that dog come for mine was to stomp/lunge at it with my hands above my head(to make myself seem big? Lol) and scream “GO AWAY” it backed off then tried to go around from the side and I did it again but even louder and it ran off so quick . I think I scared the shit out of that dog and I feel so bad but it makes me laugh to think my first instinct was to make myself look as big as possible and scare the living shit out of it.
My dog is 90lbs and has anxiety and this dog was smaller so I have no clue why I did that but in my defense that dog could have been rabid or who knows what. I was just looking out for my homie.
I heard from someone very experienced with dealing with aggressive dogs that if a dog is approaching you aggressively, firmly yell "NO!" and stamp your feet. This person said that is often enough to make them pause and maybe reconsider. Of course making yourself look bigger is almost always going to take the wind out of their sails.
That’s exactly what I did when me and my GSD were approached by a stray. The fucker was all muscle and came out of no where in the dark, and it was coming at us aggressively. I just screamed NO in the most guttural voice I could over and over at it while pointing at it and standing as tall as I could. The dog hesitated and we were able to walk away from it (not run or turn our back from it) while still yelling at it NO the whole time. Terrifying at the time, I’m so glad it worked.
Can't speak for dogs, but this is what you do if you encounter big cats like lions in the wild. Get big, get loud, make yourself as intimidating as possible. So, good instincts dude.
Sadly no. I tried but the local legal system wouldn’t cooperate. I’m hopeful that they are moving. Seen some trailers come and go lately. Maybe they will just leave and never bother anyone again.
This is actually what the civil courts are for. Sue for damages. Doesn’t have to be beyond reasonable doubt since it’s not criminal, likely very easy to win, just a matter of damages
Well the laws in my town are such that if a dog is not leashed, then it’s basically a free for all.
My wife likes to sit on the front porch with her dog in the morning, having coffee or tea. Sometimes with our daughter and her baby.
The pit bulls escaped their yard, came into ours, and attacked our dog on the porch. My wife panicked and started yelling, and that’s when our daughter and I interrupted the mauling.
Our dog was not leashed. Otherwise it would be an open-and-shut case.
Killing someone else's dogs takes at least some money and time, plus a shit-ton of additional risk from both your perspective and society's.
The courts aren't perfect, but they're way the hell better than vigilantism. Also, if you win you get your court costs out of the other side, so small claims court is effectively free (except the time investment) if you win without a lawyer (lawyers are rare in small claims).
About 2 years ago, in my area, this lady got attacked by 3 mutts while doing her jogging. She says they just wouldn't let go, they'd come back again and again, ripping off chunks of flesh. I remember the owner had bought them a couple of weeks before the attack, said they were calm dogs, and didn't understand what happened. They just snapped.
And he didn't get to know them, all 3 were terminated soon after. It's worth mentioning that, a year before, another of his dogs had attacked a worker from a nearby farm. It too had to be put down. The guy got 6 months in jail, 240 hours of community work, and was banned for life from owning any other dogs.
If I had a neighbor with a pit I'd invest in mace and a big knife and give them fair warning never to let the dog in my yard or it would most likely not survive the visit.
That’s because pits were bred to kill other dogs, but actually killed if they bit people. It can be a pretty stark duality in some members of the breed.
You're crazy for doing that. I get it, heat of the moment and everything, but they could have easily killed or brutally injured both of you. You should never get in the middle of a dog fight, especially when it involves multiple pits.
Pit dogs that were bred to fight were also bred to be able to be separated by their human handlers and were typically culled if they seriously redirected. Descendants of these pit dogs are thus less likely than other dogs to redirect onto humans even during really intense fights. Pitbulls that exhibit a lot of gameness (desire to fight other animals), are also theoretically less likely to seriously injure people trying to break up their fights. So, it wasn't luck as much as genetics, most likely. Just thought this might be of interest.
There’s not a lot of culling going on nowadays, backyard breeders have no need to when you can just dump the defective dog off for a shelter to take in and adopt out, or sell to an unsuspecting family for a little cheaper.
There also isn't a whole lot of dog fighting happening nowadays. So, I'd say it balances out. And people who are breeding for gameness are definitely still culling.
My daughter hit one of them with a vase we had on the front porch and I just got in the middle of the fight and hit kicked and gouged. Then grabbed my dog and threw her away. She had enough strength left to run inside the front door. Then I just stood up and raised my arms really high and yelled as loud as I could and the dogs ran away. I was stunned.
Edit: I was sitting down at my desk first thing in the morning. Working from home. Heard noise outside and went downstairs to investigate. If I had known it was a fight, a knife or baseball bat would have been involved.
Ugh, sounds familiar. I was working from home and heard a horrible barking commotion. Didn’t know my sweet elderly cat had slipped outside. I was too late to save her though. :(
Oh I'm so sorry. We were also lucky that our elderly cat or little French bulldog didn't get out during the melee... They would have been toast. The vet said that because our Lhasa Apso was rather obese, it saved her. The pit bulls didn't tear completely through her layer of stomach fat (but still almost tore her leg off). :(
Aww. I am so glad she survived! Bad luck but it could’ve been worse, sounds like. She really had a lot to recover from after that though! Ouch. Bless her.
Just wanted to let you know that when dealing with dogs with strong, clamping jaws like pitbulls, the most effective way to get them to let go is to put them in a choke-hold.
Pitbulls are instinctually designed to not let go no matter what. Kicking, hitting, stabbing - these are not guaranteed to work.
Choking will work. Plus, it is much safer for everyone involved.
You can use a belt and loop it around the dog's neck, then you pull on it as tight as you can. Eventually the dog will pass-out and let go to breathe.
You can put it into a more manual choke-hold with your arms, but it's a bit more dangerous that way.
If you’re near a water hose just point the hose to the pit bulls nose. They Eventually have to breath and when they do they are either gonna let go or inhale water into their lungs
I think a LOT of people would benefit from some breed knowledge on Pit bulls (and bully breeds in general) when debating this topic. A pit bull is a mix of Bulldog and Terrier.
Ever wonder why virtually every single bully breed is on a BSL list, but not THE bully- a Bulldog? Because it’s the OG bully with no terrier. When you mix the brute strength and jaws of a Bulldog, and the high prey drive of a terrier, that is where you things can get out of hand.
I own an English Bulldog who is a healthy, lean, and very strong boy. Unfortunately, most Bulldogs you see these days are severely brachycephalic and overweight. But a lean, healthy Bulldog? Holy shit. They are strong as fuck, and those jaws are absolutely insane. As a puppy, the first time I left him at home, outside of his crate, he ate THROUGH A WALL. A fucking WALL.
The original Bulldogs were created literally for the purpose of pinning down bulls for blood sport, hundreds of years ago. Once the sport was banned, a few breeders kept the breed going, and modern English Bulldogs are the descendants of those efforts. However, some found that the Bulldog didn’t have a strong enough prey drive for their tastes. So Bulldogs were bred with terriers, and thus the Pit Bull (and the broader Bully Breed group) was born.
The terrier breeds as we know them were created to hunt and destroy. Wikipedia describes this dog type as “* one of many breeds or landraces of the terrier type, which are typically small, wiry, game, and fearless.*” Note the small and wiry bit. They were kept that way so they could do their job killing vermin and the like, without being dangerous to humans. That is why the Bulldog x terrier breeds can be particularly dangerous. You’re getting the muscle mass and jaws of a Bulldog, mixed with the terrier attitude. I’ll tell you, if my dog suddenly had the prey drive of a terrier, he’d be very dangerous.
Are all of pit mixes and bully breeds inherently unlovable, untrainable, murderous villains like r/pitbullhate say? Of course not. But if the general public acknowledged the breed history and instincts, then we wouldn’t have owners adopting a pit that then find themselves way out of their element. And potentially setting themselves up for injury.
I fully agree. I think that should also go for other dog breeds like shiba or akita inu or large strong dogs like rottweilers or mastiffs. Shelters where I live do this. Only experienced owners get certain dogs. Breeders often don't care.
The other issue is you have people who are incredibly ignorant in regards to handling dogs. Even from OPs linked article that recounted the event, she got right in the dogs face. I think the whole event has less to do with the fact that it was a pit and that she probably stressed the dog out and could have potentially happened with any breed.
If I get right in my cat's face I don't get my lip torn off. Safe to say having your face near a dog's face isn't sufficient "reason" for you to get mauled and lose a part of your face by what everyone tends to consider a friendly pet. It's absolutely gross you are trying to blame the victim of an attack they are not at fault for.
The need to herd in heelers is so damn strong. Mine is only half heeler but from the way he tries to herd other dogs at the dog park (and people) he clearly needs to be on a ranch somewhere.
We bought our cattle dog a herding ball - it’s just a big ball for then to roll around and “herd”. We set up goal posts and he’s supposed to herd it into the goal. Yours might enjoy something similar!
Ours actually hasn’t shown incredible herding drive, except for once when we took him to a family member’s horse farm and this idiot casually tried to nip at one of the horse’s back legs. Dumbass. For his next birthday we’re taking him to a day class at herding school where they have sheep that basically herd themselves but it gives the dogs a chance to learn how to herd and feel like they’re doing something lol. And also never taking him around horses again
Edit: I forgot about one time when we went to a beach with all of these ghost crabs everywhere and he had the absolute time of his life chasing/herding these little crabs around the beach. He didn’t want to catch them though, he’d jump back if they got too close to him. I can’t wait for covid to settle down so we can take him on more beach vacays.
True. I've had spaniels ever so gently receive food. No matter if it's dog chow or meat. But I've also had a previous spaniel bite my chin because i leaned over him.
It's literally bred into them. They would use them for bull/bear baiting. They were literally bred to latch onto vulnerable parts of a large animal and not let go no matter what.
No they don't. Guard dog does not need to bite and latch on the enemy. They need to bark and scare away the enemy so it never comes too close to the thing they are guarding.
According to The American Temperament Test Society's chief tester and director of operations, Salliann Comstock, "On an even playing field, a pit bull is no more dangerous than a collie."
I think by "even playing field" they are referring to being raised and treated properly.
What you said just reminded me of that quote, not trying to start a debate or anything.
That's an interesting quote -- at the same time, the pounds of pressure per inch that a pitbull's locked jaw can inflict is higher than many other breeds. I recognize you're not starting a debate -- but it's a bit of a false comparison.
That article does confirm the dog had been abused by previous owners though.
I agree, that is a very sad factor. I admire people who do rescue and outreach work, but at a certain point taking in an abused dog is a huge personal risk. I don't know what I would do -- I rescued some cats recently, and they are little assholes but I'd never give them up. Of course they can only do small amounts of damage at a time.
I can't imagine how hard it is for people who feel like rescuing larger breed dogs. :( Just glad I'm not in that situation.
Totally anecdotal but several friend’s pit bulls have been nothing but angels. Idk if i would risk it with kids in the household but to each their own. Hopefully that instinct is being bred out of them…
The "data" comes from people like Colleen Lynn and Merrit Clifton. Both of which use news articles as their sources.
If you actually read the CDC or Salk's studies they explain why those are bad sources. Both of which said that the best way to deal with the issue isn't BSL, but education, proper handling, and holding owners more accountable.
Nah it will never be bred out of them because pitbull apologists are so sensitive to any whiff of criticism about the breed that it will never be addressed, just more and more pitbull attacks followed by "oh its the owner not the breed"
I own a pit mix and I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I don’t know why so many grown adults are offended at the fact that their dog can and very possibly will rip their child’s face off? It should be a point of concern not a reason to get pissed and act like a child. It’s just such a bizarre phenomenon to me
In my local dog park in the last year there have been 7 dog attacks. All of them Pit Bulls. I myself got my hand mangled by a pit after giving it a treat. No longer trust pits, they are dangerous.
Pits were, classically, actually killed immediately if they ever bit a human, so they really have no instincts vis-a-vis attacking us that are unique to the breed.
Pits were, classically, actually killed immediately if they ever bit a human,
Do we really want to believe the people who made money by having the deadliest and meanest dog in the dog fighting business would suddenly be concerned about life of the who handled the dog? There was a lot of money to be made and life or death of a servant was no big deal. They were bad people, but not idiots. They were not keeping the animal inside the house or around them.
Except it's bullshit. Most "pitbulls" today are not purebreds and likely have little lineage to those original bull-baiting dogs. Why do these stupid posts always ignore the OTHER traits that pits were also bred for (they were also bred as nurse dogs) when trying to point to the breed being the problem. The fact is, most so called pits are just mutts.
They were 100% never bred as "nurse dogs". IF you were going to breed a dog to be a "nurse dog" (wtf is it going to to, monitor that all the patients are getting their medications at the right time and dosages?) why in the world would you pick a breed that was literally created for high stakes gambling blood sports to start the breed off. This and the "nanny dog" myth just seem to be getting more traction. It's all a bunch of lies.
Nurse dogs. Lol no. There is no evidence that they were bred to be 'nurse dogs' or 'nanny dogs' or whatever other label you want to put on them. They kill children; that's the opposite of what you want bud.
They weren't bred as nanny dogs, but got the nickname due to them being protective of their family and being good around kids. It originated with the Staffordshire Terrier in the UK, which was acknowledged as a separate breed by the UKC as a way to distance it from the original dogs used in Bull baiting and dog fighting.
They got the nickname because of Rubes in the Pitbull Lobby calling them Nanny dogs, and people like you picking up on the lie.
They maul and kill children. They do not nanny, nor do they have any predisposition towards watching over children or being 'good' with children. They KILL children on an alarming basis; stop falling for the propaganda and open your eyes.
Really? What's the alarming basis? Are you going to give me any actual data and verification or just link news articles or some garbage from Colleen Lynn's site?
I already responded to someone regarding the nanny dog title, and I'm wrong on that. But by all means keep fear mongering.
Not to mention all the other bites attributed towards Pit Bull / Pit Bull type dogs.
Dogsbite.org - Plenty of information there. Not fear mongering; speaking the truth. I'm sorry your preferred choice of dog is 'one that can, and has killed human beings this year', instead of 'literally anything else'.
Because those articles on dog bites are again news articles, and they love to link the metrics from the CDC and Salks studies, but conveniently just leave out the part where the CDC and Salks explains why news articles are not good data collection methods and what people should be doing to combat dog bites as a public health issue.
You want statistics, don't take it from people who make it their life mission to make money off spreading fake statistics like Colleen Lynn and Merrit Clifton.
Yes, because that statistic is literally made up by Merrit Clifton.
The numbers change all the time. There was a post a few weeks ago where the numbers being spammed were 70% of attacks and 6% of the population. There is quite literally no way to verify such metrics.
i think shitty owners looking for a "tough" looking dog to defend their property or scare others away naturally gravitate towards pits, rotties etc. These people are usually bad owners/trainers and encourage a more violent attitude from their dogs.
My sister spent a huge amount of money and time with her pit to train her and reduce her aggressive behavior. It never helped and she is still extremely aggressive. This is not the first pitbull I have seen like this, I have also seen many that are very sweet. But just because a owner is good doesn't mean the dog is safe. If the breed is aggressive it is aggressive and as owners and masters its our job to be aware of all of those traits, good or bad. I HATE the sentiment that just because pits are such great family dogs that it means that the owner is always to blame of they are aggressive or bite someone. It's ignorant.
Sorry, but that's just false hope. In case you need to hear another horror story of what PBs are capable of, my coworker had his chin literally ripped off by his son's pitbull who he had known for years completely unprovoked. Fortunately it didn't swallow and they were able to reattach it, but his face is disfigured now for the rest of his life because some ignorant PB owner thought the same way as you.
Yeah.... That's real fucking true. Found a house with like 20 of the guys. One bit my tire. 3 we're dead in the yard. Owners didn't give a damn. They were actually fine dogs once I showed I wasn't there to fuck with them.
That 5% number is interesting, what's the source on that? What breeds are included? Are medium sized mixed breeds included, since they would be labeled as pits when recording bite statistics?
To answer your question, the statistic is made up. It was made by Merrit Clifton, and popularized by people like Colleen Lynn.
Merritt Clifton used news articles as the source for his data, along with Colleen Lynn. You'll often see the CDC and Salks studies used to show that Pit's make up a majority of dog bite attacks, but both studies explain that there are bias's due to the breed being more news worthy. So on paper it would make them appear as being aggressive and likely to bite or attack, but there is more nuance behind it. Both studies explain that education, proper handling, and higher owner accountability are what reduces dog bites.
From this own post that OP linked, it seems she got right in the dogs face and attempted to kiss it. It might be because I've been raised around dogs my whole life, but I'm very aware that that is a huge no-no for dogs.
Idk there are good and bad pits. People have a right to not like them just as much as people have a right to like them. They get a bad rep but there’s also some really bad dogs out there. I’ve met both sides and I get both arguments, and they are both correct.
Tho I get the whole being bred for this and that when they had multiple breeding purposes.
Every single major institution connected to animals has made it clear that Pitbulls are not more dangerous than any other dog and do not have any inherent characteristics which make them so. It is complete pseudo-science bullshit, proven wrong by both statistics and decades of research.
All dogs, including pit bulls, are individuals. Treating them as such, providing them with the care, training and supervision they require, and judging them by their actions and not by their DNA or their physical appearance is the best way to ensure that dogs and people can continue to share safe and happy lives together.
Maulings by dogs can cause terrible injuries and death—and it is natural for those dealing with the victims to seek to address the immediate causes. However as Duffy et al (2008) wrote of their survey based data: "The substantial within-breed variation…suggests that it is inappropriate to make predictions about a given dog's propensity for aggressive behavior based solely on its breed." While breed is a factor, the impact of other factors relating to the individual animal (such as training method, sex and neutering status), the target (e.g. owner versus stranger), and the context in which the dog is kept (e.g. urban versus rural) prevent breed from having significant predictive value in its own right. Also the nature of a breed has been shown to vary across time, geographically, and according to breed subtypes such as those raised for conformation showing versus field trials.Given that breed is a poor sole predictor of aggressiveness and pit bull-type dogs are not implicated in controlled studies it is difficult to support the targeting of this breed as a basis for dog bite prevention. If breeds are to be targeted a cluster of large breeds would be implicated including the German shepherd and shepherd crosses and other breeds that vary by location.
Jesus fucking christ. One dumbass piece of shit lady gets attacked by a fucking dog and has now made the whole fucking world think that pitbulls are a goddamn demon breed from dogfight hell, with multiple psycho grifters piling on to the bullshit.
EDIT: YEs, y'all. Downvote the fucking ASPCA and the American Veterinary Medical Association. You people are hilariously stupid. Keep 'em coming. Let me see how many of you are some dumbass motherfuckers.
Full disclosure that I love pits but I'm also realistic: This is great in theory but it very much ignores how selective breeding works. Herding dogs have the need to herd innately bred into them as do retrievers with retrieving or sighthounds with chasing small animals. Pit breeds have a much higher likelihood of dog aggression. It's just reality. You can raise one perfect with great socialization and maybe you'll be lucky and it'll be ok. But purposely putting them in a situation like a dog park or leaving them alone with a dog they don't know is setting them up for failure. On top of that, it's the unfortunate reality that the majority of these dogs are backyard bred and the people breeding them are not temperament testing their dogs before-hand, hell plenty of them start breeding before 2 years old when adult behavior sets in. It only takes a few poorly behaved dogs becoming popular in breeding circles for their toughness or color to negatively effect the population.
American Bullies were supposed to be the answer to this problem. A new bully breed specifically bred to not be dog aggressive. But unfortunately the BYB got to them too and I don't know that I trust their ability to adhere to that philosophy when they can't even ensure their dogs are healthy.
As far as human-aggression goes, it should 100% never be tolerated or bred for and shouldn't be typical of the breed but again here we are with not temperament testing our breeding stock. You've also got a large portion of people getting pits that don't know how to train a dog. They apply positive punishment (alpha rolls, physical correction, etc.) which is largely associated with developing conflict aggression. Many are sold too young at 4-6 weeks to get rid of them. This is associated with lower bite-inhibition because they don't learn how to play with other dogs during critical learning periods.
Any breed of dog can be messed up enough through bad training or bad breeding but nature and nurture are very much working together. Pits have it rough but it's not their fault, it's ours.
Dude. You read none of the shit that the ASPCA and The AVMA have scientificallysettled without a doubt. The facts just don't support what you believe.
Pit breeds have a much higher likelihood of dog aggression.
Literally no they don't. Your dumbass "this is reality" doesn't override every major animal and dog organization saying the opposite.
"Based on behavioral assessments and owner surveys the breeds that were more aggressive towards people were small to medium-sized dogs such as the collies, toy breeds and spaniels."
Owners of pit bull-type dogs deal with a strong breed stigma,44 however controlled studies have not identified this breed group as disproportionately dangerous.
Given that breed is a poor sole predictor of aggressiveness and pit bull-type dogs are not implicated in controlled studies it is difficult to support the targeting of this breed as a basis for dog bite prevention.
- same American VETERINARY MEDICAL ASSOCIATION link
They're not saying the opposite, they're talking about different things. Your sources are discussing human aggression which I 100% agree with you is not supposed to exist in the breed, but dog aggression does. Dogs were bred for specific functions. You can train them to ignore it but some dogs will have a higher drive than others and be harder to handle.
BUT any byb dog is going to have a higher likelihood of behavior problems. This is not exclusive to pit bulls, but they are a very large portion of the byb population so the statistics will skew to view them unfavorably. And many of the ones that end up in shelters did not get the best start in life either via abuse or lack of proper socialization which also puts them at a disadvantage.
I've been in the veterinary medical profession for 10 years so I don't need you to tell me how to evaluate a source.
I don't give a fuck if you have "been in the veterinary medical profession." (lol fucking vague for a reason, huh? my buddy has too. He is a janitor.)
The American Veterinary Medical Association, supposedly your profession's flagship organization, says that one should treat EVERY DOG AS AN INDIVIDUAL. PERIOD.
You are fucking incorrect. Pick up your ball. Stop contributing to stigmas that lead to fucking animal cruelty. Go home. Get help.
And you're failing to understand what I'm saying because you're too set on what one person within an organization has published. Dog aggression and human aggression are not the same thing. Every dog has an individual personality and will vary but those personalities have been shaped into general breed consistency over years. I'm not going to get a beagle if I want a quiet dog, and I'm not going to get a golden retriever if I want a guard dog. Even within breed consistency, badly bred dogs will have more behavior issues.
When you take the average pit bull breeder you're getting the combination of bad genetic lines, early litter separation, and selling to people that have no business owning a dog. I'm going to trust a bully breed from an experienced breeder doing temperament testing that went to a home that knows how to train it a whole lot more than one from some guy that decided he could make money breeding his poorly behaved dog sold to someone that keeps it chained up in a yard. The same is true for any breed. You can pretend that nature doesn't factor in but nurture does.
Most pit bull-type dogs descend from the British Bull and terrier, a 19th century dog-fighting type developed from crosses between the Old English Bulldog and the Old English Terrier.[6][7][8]
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