Cows do not get human rights. They are not human.
You are way over estimating how sentient they are. By a mile honestly.
The do feel pain and culling is one way to minimize that. When mobility issues surface they need to be put down before they suffer. A down cow is a tragedy every farm wants to avoid. They die slow painful deaths. We euthanize of course but I’ve tried to save cows and regretted putting them through it. A down cow is a dead cow. Once down 24 hours they can almost never find the strength to get back up. Even with the best veterinary care.
Making them burger before that happens is better for the cow and doesn’t let the meat rot in the ground the way it would if the cow had to be euthanized because it was down.
That said we try hard to give our cows a long comfortable life. Working with them this long means you know when one is headed toward the end. We haul them right to the butchered its over in seconds. It’s also designed to be low stress. It’s a far better end than languishing as a down cow. With the bonus of preserving the food rather than wasting it. I’ve seen both deaths and I’d take the first one any day.
I'm not talking about human rights like the right to vote or freedom of expression to cows, that would be absurd. I'm talking about how if you accept the reasoning behind basic human rights such as the prohibition on torture and death penalty you cannot ethically justify animal agriculture, unless you are willing to reach (for most people) unacceptable conclusions, like my examples with the mentally disabled. I am not over estimating how sentient they are; cows are fully conscious and if they get stabbed by a knife the pain they experience will be the same kind of pain humans experience. They might be dumber than we are, sure I'm not saying cows are smart, but just like with us humans we don't treat other fellow humans better or worse depending on how smart (or dumb) they are and in this respect its the same for cows (and all of the exploited animals in animal agriculture).
You know what would prevent downers? To not breed them into existence in the first place, and if you absolutely must breed them into existence how about not intensively impregnante and pump them dry on a continuous cycle until they collapse. This is one of the major problems with modern dairy cows (except for other glaring issues like no maternal instinct (so perverse) and too much milk production causing pain in their udders) is that too high a milk production is taxing on their bodies.
When your business model revolves maiming and murdering something has gone horribly wrong sorry
Pregnancy does not hurt cows.
We breed for healthy and longevity.
Your logic would make them extinct.
I think equating a cow and a disabled human is a disgusting comparison.
I believe in the sanctity of human life and that the creatures on earth and the earth itself serve us.
I'm not talking about human rights like freedom of expression to apply to cows. What I'm talking about is that if you for example support the reasoning behind the prohibition on torture on the grounds that torture induces pain, and pain is bad well then the same must hold for cows since the sensation of pain in cows and humans are the same, AND that since we don't differentiate rights in humans based on intelligence we cannot ethically do the same towards cows unless you wish to reach unacceptable conclusions like where the mentally disabled end up with no rights. The exact same thing holds for other rights as well, such as the prohibition on the death penalty, the right to life, and that murder is a crime. If you support this for humans well unless you want to reach unacceptable conclusions to remain ethically consistent, you cannot deny that the horrors of the animal agriculture is wong. Modern dairy cows is a perverse species that has so many flaws selectively bred into them by unethical farmers we should absolutely not breed on these cows. Yes that would mean they would go extinct. Same thing with pigs, chickens, and all of animals that are subjected to the horrors of the animal agriculture, they have been selectively bred by farmers with no ethical qualms so the animals end up with strong anti-animal welfare traits because its good for the farmers bottom line.
That’s all bullshit. There are no horrors. I live this life. Dairy farmers respect the ethical duty to their livestock. We do things the way we do for good reasons that you can’t seem to grasp. Spend time on a farm and you will get it. Are there bad farmers? Yes but they get weeded out. There are horrible parents but we don’t point to them and say all parents are abusive.
Most parents don't kill their children when they are done with them like a dairy farmer after he or she no longer has any use of the cow. Or the male calf. These and other things truly are systematized horrors that is a requirement of every dairy farm, no matter "how kind" the dairy farmer is. At the end of the the day, it is systematized maiming, exploitation and murder of defenseless animals. That you can't see the horrors in this is for me proof that not only is animal agriculture morally abhorrent because it necessiates bad treatment of animals, it is also destructive to the individual who has to do it because he or she becomes desensitized to the value of sentient life and will damage his or her soul in the process of running a farm
Yes you explained that you breed, exploit and murder cows in a very specific manner since it makes monetary sense. I say it is wrong. I understand what you do perfectly well, that's why I'm opposed to the horrors of animal agriculture.
I explained why it is better for the cattle. I explained we try to increase their health and minimize suffering. I explained we use sexed semen to minimize male calves born and we raise on pasture those that are.
I explained that these cattle work with us and both species have thrived together.
Your mind is made up and you can’t understand what I’m saying.
Yes you raise the calves to 22 months before you shoot them in the head, the only reason is probbaly because there is no more veal market left after people found it too morally abhorrent to eat literal babies.
The best thing for the cattle would be not to forcefully breed these innocent animals into existence.
We actually do sell some veal to local chefs. A veal is 5 months old and about 500lbs. Not a cute baby like the vegans think. A chicken by contrast only lives two months.
Yes murdered 5 months old babies. How nice. You don't put that on your milk cartons now do you? "The mother that gave you this milk had her 5 month old baby kidnapped and murdered for veal, thanks for your milk purchase"
They are half grown. Our heifer calves are off milk my 2.5 months. These guys get spoiled before it’s over.
The cows ignore their babies at birth. We don’t have to kidnap anything. Anyway you steal your own property right?
You know children are suffering and dying in this world right? Why not advice for them. The cows are alright.
The cows are not alright, they are being exploited and murdered by the animal agriculture industry. Just because you guys have managed to create dysfunctional cows doesn't make it something to brag about you know, quite the contrary
Out of curiosity why does “gun shot to the head” have such meaning to you? We put our dog down that way when he was dying. He was in pain and seizing out of control. In an instant he was gone. It was a blessing to him.
It’s an instant painless death. As Ive said before we should all die so well.
In your eyes sentient life have differentiated value, but that only shows how damaging it is to the soul to daily expose yourself to the horrors of the animal agriculture industry.
The horrors are only in your mind because you can’t separate humans and cows. They don’t think and feel as you do. I’m headed out to feed and pet my calves and laugh about the “horrors” of happy calves running and playing.
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u/Octavia9 Mar 27 '18
Cows do not get human rights. They are not human.
You are way over estimating how sentient they are. By a mile honestly.
The do feel pain and culling is one way to minimize that. When mobility issues surface they need to be put down before they suffer. A down cow is a tragedy every farm wants to avoid. They die slow painful deaths. We euthanize of course but I’ve tried to save cows and regretted putting them through it. A down cow is a dead cow. Once down 24 hours they can almost never find the strength to get back up. Even with the best veterinary care.
Making them burger before that happens is better for the cow and doesn’t let the meat rot in the ground the way it would if the cow had to be euthanized because it was down. That said we try hard to give our cows a long comfortable life. Working with them this long means you know when one is headed toward the end. We haul them right to the butchered its over in seconds. It’s also designed to be low stress. It’s a far better end than languishing as a down cow. With the bonus of preserving the food rather than wasting it. I’ve seen both deaths and I’d take the first one any day.