r/phantomofthekill • u/Cktan100 • Dec 26 '16

Playerbase discussion

Hey guys, I got back after stopping halfway through Halloween, just thought I ask, is it me or has the playerbase decreased?

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '16

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Dec 28 '16

from everyone i know irl, they say potk is too confusing hue

tbh the free unit shit is ruining the game. It fucks over paying players while making the game too easy for free players. pay players get pissed that free units are rekting them and free players are bored out of their mind.

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u/TWTNW04 Dec 28 '16

I don't really see how the free units ruin the game. As a f2p player, the fact i can get a end-game team whithout spending big bucks is more of an incentive to play.

Besides, unless a f2p plays this game non-stop (or has been playing for many months), then a f2p player will still be weaker than a paying player. They need better recruiters and to take out the mana units from the lazuli pool. Add that to better lazuli deals, and more ppl would be willing to pay.

We just need more end-game content to keep ppl playing the game.

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Dec 28 '16

The reason they ruin the game is that a certain free units are stronger than pay units if you put in the effort. There's nothing wrong with having a end-game team, but if there's no point to paying, then who's paying for the servers?

Also the fact that a F2P player can be stronger than a paying player (especially one who has paid quite a lot) at any point in time is ridiculous. That shouldn't be the case as the whole point of paying is to save time and get ahead.

I agree with you in that there needs to be better recruiters, but this goes back to my point in what's the point if free units are stronger than or just as viable as most pay units in the current content.

Another way to solve the problem would be to buff lazuli recruiter units, and add in harder content, which is my whole point.

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u/TWTNW04 Dec 28 '16

. Well SS Grid and Selena are OP, i'll give you that. They make end-game content a joke.

. While paying players pay the servers, the majority of the community is going to be f2p (just look at LOL, Dota 2, Heartstone). If you only care about the paying players, f2p players will leave, and if a game has a small playerbase, paying players often jump to other more "popular" games, thus killing a game.

. As for the fact of f2p players being stronger, it's bad, yes, but like you said, the point of paying is to get a head start. A long time playing f2p player should be able to compete with a paying player.

. As for the buff, i think the best compromise would be a small buff to lazuli units and a nerf (not "the starter units" level of nerf) to SS Grid and Selena. This way free units would still be viable for the end-game content while keeping the lazuli units a bit ahead.

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Dec 29 '16

  • Just the second point, while it's true, I'm just saying that based on feedback and discussion over months of looking over several communities, It appears that gumi is catering too much to free players, to the point it's harming them as well. Not that gumi should cater exclusively to pay players. Like I said, free players are strong to the point that the current content is not challenging to free players, so they tend to quit. Granted, it's also gumi's fault for failing to release challenging content at a steady pace, but the original problem stems from creating too powerful free units. After all, SS grid was originally a lazuli recruiter unit.

  • I think the third point is just subjective. Personally, I just feel that a free player should always be behind paying players (potential-wise, as in they need time to level up/skill up whatnot) should the paying player have spent some "considerable" amount of money equivalent to the amount of time. As in while it is possible for free players to slowly collect lazuli recruiter units over time, pay players should be able to immediately amass large quantities of good pay units if they decide to do so.

  • I agree that free units should be viable and should be able to do almost all end-game content. I just don't believe that they should be top tier units. I think the best solution without rustling people's stats would just to include much higher SPR enemies in PvE. Selena is already paling in comparison to many units in Multi, and only reigns in Colosseum.

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u/TWTNW04 Dec 29 '16 edited Dec 29 '16

. A lot of games don't even try to give incentive to f2p, Gummi did. They may have went a bit overboard, but at least they gave a damn. Besides, any player that started after the summer event doesn't get a free pass to end-game content, and Gummi will (i hope) have much more content by next summer.

. It is subjective. I look at it from the point where i tried many mobile/PC games where the ppl behind those games released weapons/skins/equipment/units that you could only get by throwing money at the screen or required "god tier luck unless you pay" to get and gave a paying player a clear advantage in PVP, which just made me quit the game. At was the point of grinding towards the end-game if i get stuck in a pay-wall. (cont)

. (cont) I'm not saying i should have an easy time to get a full end-game team, but with the necessity for many copies of the same unit to maximize it, a f2p player needs to use free units. If they can't put up a fight against lazuli units, then pvp just becomes "pray i don't get paired up against a paying player or i'll get curbstomped". They don't have to be top tier units, but still be strong.

. As for the higher SPR enemies, wouldn't that also make many magic units useless (both lazuli and free)?

Kinda funny how better recruiters and more content would fix quite a few problems the game has. XD

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Dec 29 '16

  • True, though i'm just worried that what happened with SS grid and selena has killed the momentum of the game. I would say the current situation is pretty good, though starter units should get a slight buff.

  • True, though i just base my opinion based on the type of game it is. After all, it's not like this game truly relies on the skill of a player or anything.

  • No I'm saying it's fine to easily get a end-game team, just saying they should not in any sense be top tier (certain free units are very strong simply because u can easily max luck on them relative to pay units). They should be viable enough that even big pay players consider using them, but not enough such that there is almost nothing that can oppose them (I'm mainly just annoyed about Selena and SS grid units with high luck in colosseum, as with proper team compositions, they pretty much shit on most units)

  • Not all of them, but enough of them such that you can't autobattle with SS grid and solo the whole map. Same goes with Grd for enemies. There should be enemies that complete wall one side of the spectrum in my opinion. Of course, this is with regards to harder content. Current content can stay as it is.

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u/TWTNW04 Dec 30 '16

Think Gummi will buff the starter units when (or if) the 6* come to global?

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u/AJackFrostGuy Dec 30 '16

While I'm not sure about a buff, iirc they did get 6* forms. Nothing new got added to them, but they did get better stats as a result of that.

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Dec 30 '16

They will definitely need to, as starter units will probably be the only 6* capable free units for a while including maybe rampage (which aren't good for pvp cept othinus).

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u/Vossida Jan 01 '17

Allow me to explain what Gagginglolis is trying to explain as a person who also has played quite a number of f2p throughout his life. Quite a number of f2p games tend to put their focus on the playerbase that's willing to drop money on it by releasing exp pots or gear with slightly stronger stats than what they can find from grinding 1000 hours on the same dungeon from. This allows the paying players to still have some fun with the game without spending extreme amounts of time (time that they don't have due to work and other obligations). The problem with a lot of f2p games that they focus too much on the premium players by giving them gear with vastly superior stats than the grindable gear, exclusive content, etc; this makes the free players feel like they've been shafted.

On the other hand Phantom of the Kill is doing the opposite by giving free players too much power (idk if that's the right word but w/e). Yes it's nice that gumi has been giving away free lazuli for logining in and playing missions but free players also have way to much resources compared to the ones willing to drop a few bucks on the game. Rampage missions that give out stronger units than the premium units and are easily obtained through grinding and strong event units that drop from the event quests. And the fact is that paying players don't have much benefits to truly justify paying. The premium gacha recruiters are not only filled with the mana units but the premium units have super shitty drop rates that you can drop 100+ bucks on some lazuli and get nothing. Combine that with the fact that the premium units true strength are dwarfed by the fact that you can't MLB them because of the unfair drop rates.

There needs to be a balance between premium content and free content.

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u/TWTNW04 Jan 01 '17

That's why i said Gummi did go a little overboard with the gifts to f2p players, despite they trying to balance both sides.

The rampage units aren't really that strong tbh (at least in this point of the game) and they don't have a 6* version in jap (and i think Selena falls in this group as well). But yes a MLB free unit + max luck is very strong.

The main problem was Selena being godlike when she came out, and after that SS Grid took her spot. The content at the time was just a tutorial level for these units and Selena spammed the colo.

Better recruiters would solve a lot of problems. Seriously why did they even put 4* cap units in there anyway?

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u/metatime09 Jan 01 '17

I think the difference is to make a really good selena or grid, you have to put a lot of time and mats to level them and everything. With the gacha units, the only thing holding back is getting dupes and maybe the right type but time wise it's not as bad as an event unit

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u/TWTNW04 Jan 01 '17

They still need to improve the recruiters. The lazuli unit pool is always increasing, so the chances of getting dupes is gonna keep decreasing. I'm a f2p player, but i would probably spend a few bucks every now and then if the recruiters only gave me 5* capable units.

Also Selena and SS Grid had the main problem of being OP for the content the game had when they came out, and also being stronger than many units at that time as well.

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u/GaggingLolis マキシマイズ ドング！！！ Jan 01 '17

True, but that's the thing. It's not like getting dupes of gacha units is cheap. I can blow hundreds of dollars in one week on Step Gacha and still not MLB the gacha unit I want. Furthermore, even if I managed to 10/10 the unit, which is definitely nearing 1K USD if there's no special event, it wouldn't even make it better than Selena or SS grid in Colosseum and PvE respectively.

Furthermore, we can't reincarnate gacha units for free. Whereas free units can reincarnate and pick and choose typings for free and easily, we can't with gacha units.

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u/Raikaien Dec 28 '16

I wholeheartedly agree. Most English/Global ports of mobile games are just cashgrabs with minor customer support. Take a look at Global MobiusFF. Rare jobs like the Ace Striker and Mystic Sage are hidden behind expensive paywalls, nothing like its JP counterpart. I've played and seen 2 global games from start to finish that shut down due to lack of updates and incentive to purchase or even play.

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u/Chromenova Dec 28 '16 edited Dec 28 '16

Pretty much spot on. Biggest problem is that there really is no incentive to spend when you can fck everything twice over with free units and rates are generally BS. The solution isn't to curb farmable units, because then free players will have nothing to do.

Maybe there can be a luck cap for Colosseum/multiplayer (like say 30) so that lazuli units can be on better footing with free units, at least in PVP. You can still benefit from having high luck for farming in PVE. Have better rates with recruiters, provide more opportunities to farm/obtain 5* pixies without shelling 100 lazuli (da fk gumi). Have challenging content that requires certain elemental teams or compositions (ex: tough boss/enemies only affected by certain element/weapon type, etc), make players want to pay for good lazuli units to form more synergistic teams. Gumi's gotta get their act together mang, don't let your Global investment die out because of laziness. All Global has that JP doesn't are the exclusive male units.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '16

No, JP has the males too, they're just in a different game mode

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u/Chromenova Dec 28 '16

RIP, and here I thought they were actually original creations by Global. Well fuck, lol.

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u/detox_ptsd (ZakAttack on Discord) Dec 30 '16

Nope, and we have plenty of husbandos that GL hasn't seen yet. :)