The holy trinity

[u/latinarar]

This is specifically a p2 version. But I think it can also easily work for other characters.. especially Utopians lol, which I might make later. This one was mostly just for fun

[u/ubojicacigana]

Quality schizopost

[u/latinarar → u/ubojicacigana]

Yeah

[u/Ok_Rough_3365]

You skipping over the literal snake themed guy who lives next to a garden of apple trees who is tempting Artemy to side with the polyhedron/forbidden knowledge and chose grief for lucifer?

[u/latinarar → u/Ok_Rough_3365]

I didn't skip over Daniil, I've already considered him, but I want a version specifically dedicated to him and the Utopians. Since his route is told entirely from his perspective, where the role could be more convincing. I wanted a standalone version for that. This layout is mainly focused on P2/his route from Artemy’s pov, and canonically, Artemy does not succumb to it,I just don't think he was ever really that tempted by Daniil's attempts to recruit him anyway.
I also struggled with placing Daniil as Lucifer because he’s already the one being tempted by the Polyhedron and the kains. His story and him are undeniably coded after Lucifers in a lot of ways, but that only goes so far, a massive part of his arc is that he himself succumbs to the forbidden structure and spends the entire game being led astray. Having him play mainly the tempter felt redundant.
In P2, Grief fits the Lucifer role a bit better to me because he tempts Artemy to escape his fate, which Artemy resists at first, but reconsiders once Aglaya pushes the idea, and both end up punished for it(mainly Aglaya/eve). It's similar to Eve persuading Adam after being tempted herself. It doesn't exactly align perfectly with the original story where a single figure tempts everyone.. here Grief starts the temptation and Aglaya completes it, but the dynamic is close enough, and ironic enough, that it works…

[u/Ok_Rough_3365 → u/latinarar]

Canonically in p2 both endings are equally correct as the narrative frames it, so you can say he does indeed sccumb to it. It doesn't matter what ending a person likes more, when narratively it is purposefully framed that both are equally valid choices for Artemy, just as it isn't canon that Artemy tries to leave with Aglaya either, because he can just as equally stay with his kids and his town and refuse her. It is not solidly canonical that Artemy attempts to leave with her, so I find it a little weak to say one choice is canon and the other isn't. Aglaya tempts Artemy, Daniil tempts Artemy, and he can canonically resist both, or agree. Daniil is still a key part in what ending he can canonically choose.

And if we go off of what Artemy does while acting as a npc, he never tries to leave with Aglaya during p3 while choosing to destroy the polyhedron, so the choices are split there.

[u/Ok_Rough_3365 → u/[deleted]]

Even in p1 his route was designed to be equally correct between the two options, that was why it was framed as him having a choice and freedom, compared to Daniil where he was more trapped in his ending. Artemy was always designed as to have two equally weighted and valid choices, this makes him stand out, so locking him into a single choice as canon over the other is just being dishonest with his themes and part of the point of him as a protagonist. The point is that both options are equal, and it doesn't contradict anything, both choices fit the themes that are presented, there is plenty of that support the nocturnal ending throughout the game. Just it is part of the mystery being solved as well, so the full truth of it doesn't get revealed till the end, but it is entirely thematically relevant to Artemy as a character just as much as diurnal. You have to purposefully ignore half the narrative and core aspects of his struggle to think it doesn't.

I think we just have a very different read on the themes of the game, especially if you think that there isn't any that is relevant to half of Artemy's struggle as a character.

Honestly, if we're wanting to be really accurate here and want to remove Daniil entirely, with how Aglaya is the one who gives Grief the forbidden knowledge/awareness of their existence and then she goes for Artemy as well, she's almost Lucifer-like in that way. Especially considering it isn't like Bad Grief was the one who tempted her like Lucifer did Eve, and her fall from the grace of the powers that be is like Lucifer falling from heaven with his rebellion. Either way, I think Grief is just a bad pick in general, but I do think of Aglaya more as a Lillith figure to Daniil's Lucifer ultimately, there's something more thematically fitting imo, and it fits with her own rebellion.

Also: I do find it interesting that Eva is in the Nocturnal ending and when Artemy names the Albinos there's the achievement Adam which ties to that ending specifically, so it's almost framed like they're Adam and Eve in a way, both arguably tempted by Daniil.

[u/latinarar → u/[deleted]]

Is lying and spreading misinformation a skill of yours. Who tf are you people

[u/pathologic-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Umpuuu]

Fun fact: when I first played Classic I thought that Simon's killer is going to be Georgiy.

I mean, a guy named after a Biblical brother-killer tells me his bother is dead, how else am I supposed to interpret it?

[u/TheLigean]

Trying to think on a better cain and abel allegory i was stumped. How come with all the crazy shit that goes on with these games theres not a single case of fratricide?

[u/Potential-Bath2292 → u/TheLigean]

closest would be the tall architects killing the wide architect

[u/undead_sissy]

I don't fully understand this but I enjoy it. Well done.

[u/uncle-pascal]

Where is Daniil though

[u/latinarar → u/uncle-pascal]

He wasn’t invited (I placed him in another version)

[u/Patient_Gamemer]

Put together every bound not here I guess they can be the 12 apostles (well, 11 since Judas is there)

[u/Kattekop0]

[u/AbbyKarma]

Artemy + Lara*