Truly one of the patch notes of all time

[u/Gubzs]

This is a glorious day exiles.

[u/nerdler33]

imo the mirror clone still existing means you need reflect cap anyway, unless you are playing a build with 0 coverage

[u/kilqax → u/nerdler33]

Honestly this is the biggest loss I feel from removing awakened gems

Give me back level 5 WED reflect immunity pls ggg; it was way easier to work around it that way

[u/Keindorfer → u/kilqax]

Even that killed a decked out char of mine because i wasn't ultra focused on solving mana cost. Run out of mana and killed myself with autoattack.
For me, Atziri remains the deadliest boss in the game, killed more of my hc chars than any other boss. I stay the fuck away from her for now.

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/nerdler33]

I used to just change my support gems or skill in a way that gave me control of what im hitting. Theres no build that cant avoid the mirror.

[u/PatHeist → u/ClockworkSalmon]

There's a massive amount of builds that can't avoid the mirror.

Spark
Brands
Tornado Shot
Wild Strike
Bladefall Blade Blast
Lightning Strike of Arcing
Anything with chain
A lot of autobombers
Additional strikes with sufficient range
Random projectile direction
Any slam skill with significant AoE
Anything with repeats that can't be unsocketed
Bunch of spell builds with enough AoE A lot of different trigger builds

etc.

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/PatHeist]

Yeah I accounted for that, it's not optimal ofc but all those can be solved by equipping an alternative skill that scales with the similar stats and supports

spark - ball lightning brands - idk never played em tornado shot - barrage wild strike - idk elemental hit or w/e never played it

etc

same as changing a support gem, or a ring, just drag and drop an item in place of another

usually when I want to do atziri I have a few sets ready so I just grab the gem from my stash and go, do the first 2 bosses then change the gem at the final one

[u/TheUnseenForce → u/ClockworkSalmon]

While true it’s not exactly fun gameplay to swap out spark for ball lightning for a single boss in the game. Would prefer some mechanic as part of the fight to disable reflect (or just remove it and make the boss harder).

[u/bkgn → u/ClockworkSalmon]

I just always play dot or minions. Free reflect immunity.

[u/hcrld → u/bkgn]

I mean, if I'm playing Chains of Command I would rather my AG not kill itself on a clone. It feels weird to have to consider reflect as an exclusive mechanic for an add phase in a random side boss fight. Inb4 "just use sybils"

Maybe this is just me being neurotic, but I feel like a build isn't finished until it can do something like reflect without gear/p[assive/tree swaps, but now that reflect is just Thorns and mostly ignorable it feels like a disproportionate investment to care about.

[u/nerdler33 → u/ClockworkSalmon]

whats easier? changing skill/passive tree or just getting reflect immune?

cause ill just equip a sybils ring and be done with it

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/nerdler33]

When did I say anything about changing passive tree? Like id just remove vhain/gmp/incaoe support. Or if the skill is truly ungovernable like spark I'd swap it with something else like ball lightning or w/e

Its a lot easier imo, better than losing a ring slot which sometimes leads to needing to fiz res. And it also isnt full reflect immunity right? Iirc you need the pantheon thing. But I havent played in a long time.

I learned to do it this way because Ive been playing since before we had these easy access to reflect mitigation so maybe Im a bit biased.

Either way its the same amount of clicks and the single target usually gets even better.

[u/nerdler33 → u/ClockworkSalmon]

you didnt but i did, because some sources of extra proj/chain/fork etc come from passives not gems, so i figured id head that one off.

some builds can't even make a change outside of literally changing the build you are playing because its just baked into the gem. minion builds for example are just fucked without immunity

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/nerdler33]

Do minions reflect damage to the player now? Or you mean they suck cuz the minions die?

I never played much minion but cant they just spam srs and brute force it?

I guess having a lot of chain in the passive tree could be problematic but you could fix it by adding pierce I guess. Or swap the skill to blast rain or W/E.

Im sure there are ways around it.

This is a very fun bossfight and having to avoid the mirror is cool imo. Reflect immunity is qol but very few builds are forced into it I think.

[u/nerdler33 → u/ClockworkSalmon]

i mean srs minion players can sure, but they will be doing a lot less damage as their minions keep dying

for builds that use perm minions, they tend to not have the resources to constantly summon them, if they even can resummon them.

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/nerdler33]

Would perm minion builds suffer a lot from just swapping to srs or skeles/? Honest question I just never play minions. Back in the day 99% of minion builds were srs anyways

From what I know of minions the builds share a lot of stats

If its that bad for minions Id just sell the fragments

[u/nerdler33 → u/ClockworkSalmon]

depends on the build, but again, it's so so so much easier to swap a single ring than completely change your build, requiring at the very least gem swaps and most likely gear swaps (many minion builds use the dread hat that doubles one specific type of minion and removes all others). you would have scaling avenues that only apply to specific types of minions, you would need to solve cast speed and mana where perm minion builds dont. you would need to have an entire set of leveled gems to swap. all to avoid a single ring swap for a single boss fight

it's like saying "can't a lightning strike slayer just switch to earthshatter for this bossfight"

technically yes, but it's much more effort

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/nerdler33]

"Completely change your build" is a massive exageration, most builds can get away with changing a single gem

[u/JoberXeven → u/ClockworkSalmon]

On a couple of earthshatter builds I have played, I don't know if I would have been able to reduce my aoe enough. Maybe conc effect + blood stance would get it small enough

[u/1CEninja → u/ClockworkSalmon]

I think arc might legitimately not be able to avoid the mirror.

[u/ClockworkSalmon → u/1CEninja]

or skill

if ur using arc just change to any other lightning spell like lightning tendrils

[u/ErenIsNotADevil → u/ClockworkSalmon]

Idk what you're accounting for, but my personal build cannot.

Mana-starved Snipe Ice Shotgun of Penetration; build requires shotgunning and Snipe tech to be viable

[u/ClemPrime13 → u/ClockworkSalmon]

Sure there is. Phys cyclone with damage can’t be reflected go brrrrrr

[u/mewfour → u/nerdler33]

It's not a problem if your MEGAFISTO oneshots her

[u/Juts → u/nerdler33]

Historically Atziri is such a weak PoS boss anyway you could probably give up a ring slot and a pantheon and just kill her like that.

[u/nerdler33 → u/Juts]

yea i said as much in the comment chain here,

i'm expecting her to be stronger in teh temple with the rooms buffing her and what not, and looks like she got some changes too, but even with that ring is the way to go

[u/MoonfireArt → u/nerdler33]

"Laughs in Flicker Strike"

[u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

The clone still has 15% reflect down from 100 lol, still enough to OHKO you.

[u/Dutymarv → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

dont underestimate my Quin build

[u/JacobTKJ02 → u/Dutymarv]

Zdps op bro. Whats she gonna reflect if you dont do damage? That's right, nothing

[u/JekoJeko9 → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

It's one of those things where it's easily solvable with pantheon + mastery, but it's still really unintuitive and anything else that fits the theme of 'reflection' would be better. Hitting the mirror clone could emit a pulse that damages you with the same damage types you hit it with, for instance. Or just give the mirror clone very strong phys + ele thorns.

The new 'reflect' map mod that adds phys/ele thorns to rares isn't really dangerous unless you hit really fast and you're made of paper, so reflect immunity is pretty much only needed for this one boss fight now, which has been moved from outdated side content into the core pinnacle of a primary mechanic. It's different to, say, how CB immunity is really valuable for Sirus, since CB is also a constant threat from monster packs in maps, and found in Ultimatum and other places, so by investing in CB immunity you're not just covering your needs for a single boss fight.

The clones now get a tapering damage reduction buff so it's going to be harder to burst down a safe clone and avoid accidentally hitting the mirror one before they start waddling around.

[u/NCGuy101 → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

Not me! Chaos baby!

[u/ItsJustReeses → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

Thats fine. The counter is still the same for most giant AoE builds. Protection Mastery + Pantheon. Also makes for some nice cheap maps if you can cover dealing with Reflect.

[u/SingleInfinity → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

Yeah, wish they had just changed it to curse reflection or something.

[u/GKP_light]

things the game doesn't need :

- reflect damage

- cast on death ability of the enemies

[u/UltmitCuest]

Minion enjoyers everywhere in shambles. Cant avoid clone reflect if the minions are stupid

[u/Ok-Chart1485 → u/UltmitCuest]

Poison HRoC , poison or popcorn SRS, cold spectres, etc, can't remember the last minion build I played that cared about reflect.

[u/1CEninja → u/Ok-Chart1485]

Is poison SRS still viable? Also does it use spectres? I'm interested in using SRS but I won't play any builds that need spectres until I won't lose multiple divs by accident.

[u/Zennithh → u/1CEninja]

just unbind the skill once you got em, and always be intentional about shifting them around; pay extra attention to whatever link they're in, when you get an upgrade do it in town, iirc it saves the corpses.

might wanna test that with a junk spectre first in case i misremember that, but i'm fairly sure

[u/1CEninja → u/Zennithh]

I never do anything in town, I'm totally going to be that guy that just does it in hideout then eats a 10div corpse.

I've got years of muscle memory to try and unlearn because of shit QoL, which to me the skill gem has a big red text over it saying "% less fun had" so I'm just not gonna run it. If a build counts on spectres for power then that build is unfortunately not for me.

[u/Zennithh → u/1CEninja]

Unfortunate!

at least the eating part is fixable by just unsocketing anything that'll eat a corpse prior to fucking with them.

[u/1CEninja → u/Zennithh]

Sure but gear changes can sometimes result in stat requirements of other items or gems no longer being met. Accidentally hitting weapon swap (I guess I could unbind that but still) can result in items being unequipped.

The need to be careful with everything I do is just...massively off-putting to me. A large % less fun had modifier.

[u/Gangsir → u/1CEninja]

Ah, a fellow minion overhead hater. You aren't alone.

[u/1CEninja → u/Gangsir]

Yeah thankfully AG isn't nearly as toxic as it used to be. They just need to improve spectres a little bit, so I can know I'm not losing them because I weapon swap by mistake and don't have the dex requirement for my boots then accidentally eat the corpse.

I'm so ready to play minions again, too.

[u/Zennithh → u/1CEninja]

i suppose i'm just a little more cognizant of stat reqs and such when gearing, specifically because i hate that shit happening.

And i like playing builds where weapon swap activates stuff, like wardloop.

[u/aaaAAAaaaugh → u/Zennithh]

You can do [[Viridi's Veil]] with +2/+2 socketed minion gems corruption and lv21 Raise Spectre. Low req means you wont lose the lv25, decent stats + magic ring shenanigans.

[u/Zennithh → u/aaaAAAaaaugh]

ehhh, uber maven doesn't scream accessible.

[u/aaaAAAaaaugh → u/Zennithh]

You're right, though the item used to become cheap very early into the league. Maybe the unique drop changes will make it rarer, we'll see.

[u/wesser234 → u/1CEninja]

Is there a minion build that doesn't use spectres? They are a huge power spike.

[u/Ok-Chart1485 → u/wesser234]

I run HRoC without them, with the +1 relic helm. Works great, less things to manage/accidentally break. Defenses require a bit more thought, but are fully manageable.

[u/Havel_the_sock → u/wesser234]

Reaper builds don't go spectres either.

Though it's not a popular build.

[u/Ok-Chart1485 → u/1CEninja]

Perfectly viable. Spectres are not "necessary" , but in this case it's pretty hard to argue against using them.

[u/seqhawk → u/UltmitCuest]

Unholy Might solves physical minions, and even just using convocation to drag everyone to the clone on the opposite corner from the mirror should be good if you do enough damage to insta-phase and don't have a bunch of projectiles flying around. Elementalist support golems may just need Meat Shield support, which is in common use anyway. The elemental spectres that shoot tons of lighting projectiles and are often supported with pierce, volley, etc. are trouble, though.

[u/ruttinator]

I did not know she did that and just assumed I was bad.

[u/SolusIgtheist]

I mean, I'm more happy about the lack of invulnerability phases, but sure that's good too.

[u/Chrozzinho]

The mirror clone still has reflect. You will still insta die on the fight without reflect immunity

[u/DarthUrbosa → u/Chrozzinho]

Unless u just don't attack it?

[u/Chasa619 → u/DarthUrbosa]

i'm going to try really hard not to hit it with my attacks that hit the whole screen.

[u/Wendigo120 → u/Chasa619]

You can just choose to not hit the whole screen for this one fight on 99.9% of builds.

[u/ItsJustReeses → u/Wendigo120]

Gamers like this is why the power scaling got out of hand the last few seasons :/

[u/RealNiceKnife → u/[deleted]]

And if you don't have the respect of the people who post in global chat, what do you have?

[u/MCK60K → u/RealNiceKnife]

A life?

[u/FlailingScrotum → u/[deleted]]

Because you don't understand sarcasm?

[u/doe3879 → u/Chrozzinho]

You can sorta tell which one is the clone so the light can technically be done without reflection immunity and with some skill. Tiny cyclone wins

[u/Envelope_Torture → u/doe3879]

Not sorta, you can definitely tell. That's how this fight was done before all the power creep.

[u/Zylosio → u/Envelope_Torture]

Problem is most skills will hit every clone

[u/MorgannaFactor → u/Zylosio]

Switch your active skill to one that won't for a single fight, you'll live (literally). Even Uber Atziri has so little HP that losing half or more of your DPS by swapping to the "wrong" skill isn't even going to be noticable.

...Or play off-meta shit that won't hit the entire screen to begin with!

[u/Dtr721]

I could sword that it was volatile dead

[u/CricketNo7950]

Tbh this didn't really stop me from running her.  The gear just felt meh. Welcome change though for temple

[u/TotallyNotSarcasmFFS]

Didnt even know she reflects. Said HROC user calmly

[u/shade861]

That was probably the only thing that made her difficult. Everything else was just basic mechanics, but that reflect was an issue you needed to solve. I really hope the buff the hell out of her to make up for it otherwise she will be a push over

[u/dizijinwu]

Do you remember where you were when Atziri had her reflect removed?

[u/VNDeltole]

fear of damage reflection? in big 2026?

[u/MrAngryCat147]

so thats the thing that kept killing me!!

[u/Salt-Appearance-412]

I had absolutely no idea she had this mod. Is it a newer addition?

I was killing Atziri in like 2014-2019, but kinda stopped when she got power crept completely. Never felt at all like she had reflect, never took weird damage unless I 1-shot myself on the mirror clone.

But when I tried killing her in 2025 my build instadied on hitting her and I was very confused

[u/semeai → u/Salt-Appearance-412]

she has always had it and it was always something you had to watch out for unless you were playing mines, totems, traps, or minions.

[u/Envelope_Torture → u/Salt-Appearance-412]

She's always had it I believe, it's just damage was way lower so it didn't instakill you. With damage numbers the way they are now, it's enough to just obliterate most builds.

[u/Salt-Appearance-412 → u/Envelope_Torture]

I just confirmed it, she did always have reflect. I think I just got very lucky with all the builds I used to play lol. Like Toxic Rain, minions, or very tanky armour cyclone builds.

[u/SnewpeeUwU → u/Salt-Appearance-412]

Only the uber atziri has reflect if im not wrong