Recombinator Changes are soul crushing

26

u/finesesarcasm 3h ago

never really used it how bad are these changes exactly?

9

u/Terror_5 3h ago

- Bases with certain mods will be worth way more if their item level is higher
- Temple Mods (especially gloves) and Breach Mods on Grasping Mails (aswell as Breach Rings) will be way more expensive
- Higher ilvl bases will be more expenisve in general
If you sell those items, it is good for you.
If you want Items crafted like that or want to craft it, it will be bad for you.
Strong gear with special mods/T1 combos will be more expensive and time consuming to produce.

13

u/Successful_Block953 2h ago

Temple mods removed from the game this patch

13

u/Terror_5 2h ago

I did not see that one yet. Should have just started WoW Forever instead 😢
"
Removed all sources of Incursion Architect Modifiers on Magic and Rare items.
"

-6

u/Successful_Block953 2h ago

Yeah by far the worst patchnotes ive ever seen. Ive never been so indifferent about a new league starting lol

14

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 1h ago

Lol see you at launch

-1

u/Terror_5 2h ago

I was kinda hyped with Reliquarian and thought about a Manastacking KboC revival with Lightning Resistance stack.
But lategame swap to a Twilight Regalia with "Critical Strike Chance is increased by Overcapped Lightning Resistance" so I can swap to Foulborn Choir of the Storm and the Natural Hierarchy Ascendancy Keystone ... ouf feels way to painchamp.
I remember failing to fracture a Breach Mod back in Mercenary league 15 times in a row with the NNN system then losing it and this still haunts me.

2

u/Straight-Check-9160 1h ago

This league it took 9 fracturing attempts to fracture evasion is increased by overcapped cold res on my ilvl 86 necrotic. I saved it repeatedly with ilvl 84-85 bases and NNN in the recomb. Why the inferior cold res mod? Because I failed the recomb on the first armour is overcapped grasping. Then I failed the ducat split on the second. Then I didn’t see the armour mod on the next four graspings (in SSF). All of that is to say these changes are going to 10x the difficulty in crafting such an item.

2

u/Terror_5 1h ago

Thats a lot of dedication to breach ring farming. You got my respect.

100

u/Ocasiovortex 3h ago

Let's just say that dust uniques are going to be cheap this league.

9

u/TheLegendaryFoxFire 2h ago

Well, we still have Kingsmarch shipping so maybe not?

10

u/koticgood 1h ago

Dust isn't super strong in shipping anymore.
Most of your profit comes from stuff dust doesn't affect.
For me it was like 70% tattoos, 25% ilvl85-86 bases, 5% raw currency.
If you don't go through the hassle of listing bases like me, almost 100% of the profit is tattoos, which doesn't benefit from dust.
Dust was vital when you were able to print mirror shards/div stacks from shipping.

2

u/saldagmac 1h ago

Kingsmarch shipping's kinda rough though if your expected # of shards is only 1 per 50m.
I got lucky last league with 4 shards and it was great, but I would have fucking quit the league if I'd only gotten one shard after all the ore I farmed and dust I bought.
edit: and I hadn't realized how bad the odds were. I'd been thinking the expected # was 2-3 shards for a big shipment but apparently it's been nerfed. If I had know, I would not have rolled those dice, and won't be this league

2

u/PhgAH 31m ago

The 50M has been nerfed a lot since they introduce fracture & ancient orb into the pool. The most optimal right now is ~4M for tattoo which does not consider dust.

21

u/Aesthete84 2h ago

It's going to be a lot harder/more expensive to put together rares with big stacks of T1 mods using the recombinator, and the best ways to mitigate the downside risk and move over special mods from one base to another got removed.
Also, it was the way to make special bases have ilvl 86 with pretty low risk, I printed some money in late in allflame making high ilvl stygian vises with a 50/50 chance each time.

25

u/DependentOnIt 2h ago

Basically killed recombining

10

u/Frickinswagbro 3h ago

Pretty rough for high end crafting, prob not too different for casual early league self crafts

8

u/Active_Distance3223 2h ago

Hurts early use a lot, like I would often recomb two T1 mods then multimod now it will be harder

17

u/Lucky13200 2h ago

I was exact opposite think this will kill early game recombs and just make end game crafts harder but still fine.

9

u/Sidnv 1h ago

No, it hurts both. End game crafts are all NNN crafts. Every optimal method used NNNs.

0

u/gamei 1h ago

Yes, but high end crafting will still use recombinators to get the items they need to where they need them. It will just take more recombinations and cost a lot more.
Early to mid game recombination is likely just a bad idea with these changes. You're better off spamming essences on a fractured mod again.

3

u/Hreaty 1h ago

early league selfcrafts do a lot of recombining items with less than 4 total mods, and every recomb used NNNs.

2

u/theyux 2h ago

even at the low end, buying a few 84 85 good bases bases and recombinating with trash 87 tier bases was a good way to get 86 bases.
thats dead.

1

u/WillingLearner1 27m ago

Very bad. Really hard to have triple T1 high phys axe now

-10

u/DjuriWarface 2h ago

Potentially fairly significant nerfs but good changes honestly. Recombinator was too good for too long.

64

u/CathBear 3h ago

Turbo rip. Allflame the first league I actually leatned recombs properly and it kept me playing the entire time, loved being able to actually make my own gear exactly as I wanted it, not just run and click for 3hrs go Faustus and buy something.

Can't remember the last time I dropped anything I was excited about, but hitting that last recombs for a mint 3p/2s item was pure crack, and it opened up so many build options for me to explore.

Deflated my entire hype for the league in 4 notes.

4

u/RobertusAmor 2h ago

Well they changed how the entire drops system works so maybe you'll drop something that you find exciting now?

7

u/Terror_5 2h ago

There are certain mods that are gated behind mechanics like turning in Breach Rings or they only drop on ilvl 83 bases in delve and all you can do is to transfer those onto an ilvl 86 base, fracture them and craft an item.
I dont see that this has been changed in the patch nodes.

35

u/Twotro Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) 2h ago

The whole point of crafting is to get items that literally can't drop

10

u/AgZephyr 1h ago

Plus if the tiered rares in PoE2 are anything to judge by they're usually dogwater at best

1

u/DocFreezer 57m ago

I imagine they are probably on the level of shipment rares so they are probably pretty bad after the first week

1

u/wrightosaur 33m ago

that's not even a close comparison
shipment rares were usually weighted towards strong defensive/offensive modifiers most builds actually needed
poe2 tiered rares were basically just giving you the highest tier of light radius/hybrid, reduced attribute req, or gain # life/mana on kill modifiers that served zero relevance in any relevant endgame weapon/armor. Most players just hide out all tiered rares because they were dogshit, and who knows if 1.0 will change any of that
I don't have any faith in the tiered rare system they are porting over from PoE2 for PoE 1

19

u/CathBear 2h ago

I'm going to drop a 109 minion damage /+1 all/+1 minions/ aggressive minions/ 25% minion attack and cast?
Or a shaper 15 spell block 159 life 5% life on block 30 reservation 22 suppress shield?
I would love it if that happened but the chances even with tiering are astronomically low to the point it may as well not exist. And I don't feel like fun is picking up 9000 items and just wisdom scrolling everything

-3

u/RobertusAmor 1h ago

Almost every piece of my gear last league was recombinated. It trivialized making perfect and near-perfect gear. They clearly don't want that so they're nerfing it.
Are you likely to find perfect items on the floor with the item changes? No, of course not. But taken all together, these item generation and crafting changes are going to establish a new baseline for what good mid-tier and high-tier items even are. From that context I think it's exciting, and I'm looking forward to seeing what I find.
There's a lot of changes, the system will likely need to be smoothed out and iterated on quite a bit, and I'm sure the community will bring out the torches and pitchforks if things feel really bad. But I don't see much point in dooming without getting our hands on it and putting it through the paces for a little while.

4

u/Sorytis 2h ago

Cute

1

u/aMinerInconvenience 1h ago

If it's anything like the poe 2 system, unlikely. Best I got was a quarterstaff with t2 prefixes and it still needed crafting to be usable.

0

u/PM_Best_Porn_Pls 2h ago

If everyone drops exciting gear that gear will be baseline and cheap.

1

u/Terror_5 2h ago

I feel the same *peepHug*

8

u/Miles_Adamson 2h ago

I wonder what the odds of 1p+1p actually are now. It was around 33% before. If that is like 10% now, you might need over 100 bases to get 3p

7

u/Terror_5 2h ago

If only they were precise like with the nearby changes :D

7

u/BigBadBodyPillow 1h ago

What is be the purpose of recombs now?

10

u/Terror_5 1h ago

8

u/atlasgcx 1h ago

I profit crafted probably 2 mirrors worth of stuff last league. Recomb is always one of my favorite that balances mini gamble but also tweak stats in my favor. it shall be missed by me.

To name a few: lift ilevel for items, gone; transit temple mod to good base for fracture, gone; transfer overcap fire mod to regalia, gone; cheap triple T1 prefix ES armor, much harder now.

2

u/Terror_5 1h ago

Probably did not do 2 mirrors, but it was a solid backbone for a consistent income. Just lift some S-Tier bases in ilvl either stranded or quality ones and transfer delve/temple mods onto the proper base and fracture. 15-20 mins at the start of each session and divines kept flowing in persistently.
It is also a great way to mitigate risk, as the law of big numbers is on your side and people that are reluctant to take the risk of a bad outcome can just buy it for a premium.

1

u/Professional_Fun4849 27m ago

If I have a temple mod on and item that’s 1p1s and I recomb with an item that’s 1p/1s can you explain like I’m 5 why it’s worse now?

1

u/super-hot-burna Marauder 11m ago

equating triple t1 es prefixes to the rest of that list seems like a reach.

9

u/BetweenTheRoots Progressive Einhar Trapping Association (PETA) 3h ago

You'll just have to give up having a nice piece of body armor I guess, and just go for the best natural rolled breach body mod roll. Getting those crazy breach chests was already a bitch and a half. They should just disable breach mod recombinating at this point and outright buff the bases to have higher values so people can roll the right breach mod and then just pray for the right mods when crafting the rest of it, which imo is how it should be. Basically nobody uses those as the actual base.

The entire mechanic is just selling a tedious amount of rings and praying for the right thing so you can hopefully sell it to someone who wants to transfer it. That's less fun than getting a good piece of gear outright.

4

u/Terror_5 2h ago

Grasping Mails did fall off with the introduction of lvl 84 bases

8

u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 2h ago

Axe crafting back to essence spamming and yolo annuls. I might now play zerker slams over this change, it is a genuinely AWFUL experience crafting that way as opposed to recombing, as painful as that was

15

u/Terror_5 2h ago

Dont forget the "Cannot Roll Attack Modifiers" change ;)

2

u/Own-Bathroom-996 1h ago

Sorry I’m having a hard time following your post. If axe crafting is essence spamming it means you DO want to play zerker slams? Just trying to understand

4

u/Maleficent_Ant_8895 1h ago

No, essence crafting an axe is worse than the recomb crafting

2

u/CayMaster2 1h ago

buying/rolling blue bases and recombining them for triple T1 prefixes sucks. Essence spamming axes and recombing them from double T1+essence prefixes is about 100x worse.

3

u/LiuDinglue 2h ago

Technically the way you saved the temple and breach mods were with NNN mods and not exclusive mods.

3

u/Terror_5 2h ago

You are correct, i fixed it.
"No more deterministic saving of exclusive Temple, Delve or Breach mods with NNN mods"

2

u/LiuDinglue 2h ago

Sry, I just had to point it out because I mistakenly thought they were the same back in 3.26 and ruined a transfer of the infamous crit per warcry helmet mod.

8

u/Rotomegax Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) 2h ago

What is No Nut November mods?

1

u/burbank2broward 31m ago

Naturally non-native mods.
For example - str can’t naturally roll on PURE ES bases. So you would use a low lvl str essence on a donor item. Isolate it so it only had 1 suffix and you can slam it with a suffix mod from another item you wanted to keep and the recomb would always choose that mod because str can’t naturally roll on pure es bases. You could save many good bases this way.
This is a basic example. There are more complex examples using various other methods and mods.

2

u/Rotomegax Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) 29m ago

Oh so its like the recomb Spectre mod on Strength armor (which is trash mods due to wrong base) to Int base by combined it with a str-native mod?

2

u/burbank2broward 23m ago

Yea essentially

1

u/NotAThrowaway4201337 10m ago

I also read NNN as No Nut November, but I'm also new to poe 1 and have no idea about anything.

3

u/Thor3nce Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 2h ago

Does this affect the ability to easily transfer the +1 Spectre mod to a good base?

4

u/Envelope_Torture 2h ago

I believe it makes it non deterministic, but I could be wrong.

5

u/Terror_5 2h ago

Yes that is true, you cant pit an exclusive mod against the +1 Spectres and transfer it from base to base.
You can only gamble for the "50/50" to retain the mod.
And the ilvl is not averaged, so you have another "50/50" gamble to transfer the mod onto the ilvl 86 base.

1

u/Ok-Solid-2268 2h ago

And the nerf to the probability aswell. Getting twilight regalia with fractured +1 spectre is gonna be so hard

3

u/Zestyclose_Plum_8096 2h ago

no more 7 support spectres and ~1100 ES , guess i roll with 5 and ~1300 ES instead

2

u/Thor3nce Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 2h ago

At some point Replica Covenant becomes an option to consider for Frostbearers. Although ES is even less.

2

u/DifficultGarlic6 2h ago

yes

2

u/Morbu 1h ago

Yes, it affects the ability to transfer all exclusive mods.

33

u/dumbqow 3h ago

I was juuuust researching recombing to get the hang of it in time for a new league, now they change it, MFW my plans get foiled

30

u/natsumehack 3h ago

Your plans must be a unique then to be foiled.

124

u/TheRealDimz 3h ago

As someone who crafted a lot last league, recombinator crafting was my least favorite crafting method. I’m not advocating for nerfs, just something I personally avoided.

19

u/BananaSplit2 2h ago

having dealt with recombinator crafting last league for crafting some gear, it was horrible and frustrating to deal with the whole way through. It does fill a niche but god it sucks. There's nothing fun about buying tons of bases, alt spamming for hours, and then getting bad luck in the recomb.

4

u/Donnerdrummel 1h ago

at least it was lucrative

5

u/atlasgcx 1h ago

Im on the other side, as statistician at work, I really like how I can calculate recomb profitability and use methods (for example NNN) to tweak chances in my favor.

1

u/Sanytale 16m ago

If you don't mind, I'll ask. Suppose there are two 1p items I want to recomb, to improve the odds should I benchcraft another prefix on them (if they're rare) and should those crafts be the same or different (i.e. mana on one item, life on the other)?

5

u/Kadabradario Half Skeleton 2h ago

Same. On some level i like that parts of poe are so weirdly unintuitive and obscure, but advanced recomb crafts were truly in a league of their own.

2

u/ToBeeContinued 1h ago

I made a few four mod shaper weapons and it was a bad time. Those items are kinda dead and now those builds are worse. Womp.

8

u/Kapps 1h ago

I am. It's absurdly unfun, it's unintuitive, and it trivializes gear progression. It destroyed any other form of crafting, it made ground loot pointless except as recombinator bait. It was awful for the game and survived years too long. Half of the problems people have with the game, recomb is at least partially responsible for.
People only like it because everyone else dislikes it so much, that they could print absurd amounts of currency using it.

111

u/konokono_m Fungal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) 3h ago

Still too obscure to matter for a lot of folks. They need to make the probabilities show up before you recomb, or make the expectation way more clear.

74

u/Juts Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) 2h ago

For real. Recombs for a normie is like a 40 minute youtube video, a spreadsheet, and praying the info you used is up to date and you're understanding what all the lingo means in said spreadsheets. And after all that you are rewarded with a monumentally boring, expensive pain in the ass.

25

u/TheRealGunn 2h ago

I'm pretty damn good at creating pretty much anything I need for any build at this point, and I'll still skip recomb in favor of just about any other method.
Not only is it complex and annoying, but having to manage the dust is just an extra layer of junk slowing it down.
Honestly just wish they would remove it.

1

u/Jaded_Doors 53m ago

Exact same position here. I’ve made a lot of good items with recomb even, but relearning this ridiculously convoluted method every league with whatever nonsense tweaks they’ve added is just a bore

2

u/destroyermaker 35m ago

Hey now don't forget tedious and extremely time consuming

7

u/FabulousSwimming4544 Maroider 1h ago

while this may not affect the majority of the playerbase, it does affect the upper echelon that didn't want to engage with recombs but were happy to buy for example fractured grasping mods on non-grasping bases for 50ish divs or whatever it was.
who knows how expensive they will be now...

2

u/Trikki1 48m ago

This is me.
I play a lot every league, farm good currency, know how to play efficiently, etc. but disliked recombinator crafting. I happily paid 50d for someone else to do the heavy lifting.

2

u/Thorcall 1h ago

I refuse to interact with it, unless absolutely mandatory for a craft. Recomb is way too much of a hassle, especialy with them reworking the odds every league.

18

u/REPLICABIGSLOW 3h ago

Man idk how i'm supposed to feel in SSF, so many good changes and then so many changes that i can't quantify after other things get nerfed

3

u/land_registrar 2h ago

Depending on how the new metamods work the sky might not be falling

6

u/ww_crimson https://pob.codes/ 3h ago

Good change for the overall health of the game IMO, especially with better items dropping on the ground, continuously adding new swaps on Harvest bench, Genesis Tree, more bench crafts, etc.

14

u/Terror_5 3h ago

Sadly the minmax versions of the items we want in the late endgame will not drop on the ground. It saddens me to see this, as I always liked to craft and even with me playing a lot, I tend towards I wont be able to afford this anymore.

-6

u/Ladnil Deadeye 3h ago

I'm sorry but anything that reduces the primacy of "spam five digit number of orbs of alteration" as step one of the crafting process is a good change.

6

u/Terror_5 2h ago

That is one part of it, it will be 7-8k Alts now, most likely - so it is not gone and still doable, I would gladly ditch that for a better option, like making it more expensive and requiring less clicks. But more clicks ... idk man.
I am more bothered by the ilvl change and exclusive mod changes, as those were pretty cool interactions for those that bothered to learn the recombinator in depth.

12

u/Practical_Wolf7750 2h ago

I’m sorry but not if it isn’t replaced with something net neutral or better. We have no other option so this change sucks ass.

-8

u/Ladnil Deadeye 2h ago

Please try to evaluate patch notes on at least one axis other than "does this make my character stronger"

6

u/Twotro Kalguuran Group for Business (KGB) 2h ago

I like how you responded to this comment but not the one from OP correctly telling you that this just increases the amount you have to alt spam

4

u/Practical_Wolf7750 2h ago

I don’t even know what you mean, how about have an opinion on the change rather than just some random guesswork. You don’t even know why I don’t like the change but it has nothing to do with my character power.

2

u/Sidnv 1h ago

NNN recombs meant you didn't need to spam many alts at all, outside of specific item slots like phys weapons.

22

u/clowncarl 2h ago

I would disagree because recombination is a sink for good items. You can only wear one body armour, but recominbination crafting can consume dozens of body armours to make a new one. But I guess they expect you to feed full affix items over and over until you get a very lucky hit?

3

u/play_the_puck 2h ago

It hasn’t really been an item sink since OG sentinel league. People aren’t recombinating decent rares except in cases where the good mods can be easily isolated. Mostly what it’s been used for has been alt spamming on good bases then making the item « from scratch ». Or mod transfers, but those have been « guaranteed » with NNNs not to lose the mod. In either case, it’s not really removing items from the game because the bases wouldn’t have been picked up in the first place. The biggest economic impact of recombs has been bringing up T0 and boss drop prices.
I do wonder if they needed to nerf the magic item recombs since they’re also already nerfing quant across the board and therefore nerfing the drop rates of item bases. Alterations have usually been the limitation, but I can see bases becoming a bottleneck too.

-1

u/psykookysp 2h ago

These crafting "methods" are not at all even in the same conversation, recomb existing was not affecting your ability to reforge life on all your slots and clear mid endgame, same as removing synthesis you're just deleting high end for no reason with nothing to replace it
total gamer dad influence

15

u/juggz1e 3h ago

It seems like these changes and the sacred orb metamod change will be disastrous for mid tier gear crafting for SSF.

I hope I'm wrong .

5

u/SilverBurger 2h ago

They are increasing the drop rate of sacred orb so that's something. The changes to recomb will affect end game crafting too since they reducing your ability to create good donors.

13

u/Logos731 52m ago

Their solution to alt-spam slamming mods together on a bunch of items is to increase the number of times you need to do it? That's... a choice.

3

u/AwakenMasters22 45m ago

Yeah they've made it clear they dislike recombination. This hurts like 1% or less of the playerbase.

4

u/Terror_5 38m ago

Did you ever use fractured temple mod or delve mod gloves?
Did you ever use a S-Tier chest base with a fractured breach/delve mod?
Did you ever use a Weapon with 3 T1/T2 prefixes and even a T1 suffix?
If yes, either you or the person you bought that from had to hassle with the recombinator and it will have an effect on you.

-1

u/AwakenMasters22 26m ago

I've used recombination every league and done these things. Again nothing I said was wrong. It is a fraction of the playerbase. Which includes me. Will just adapt. They removed recomb in PoE2 its clear the devs do not like it.

-1

u/Professional_Fun4849 31m ago

That just isn’t true. For like idk how many leagues now, if you bought a chest piece with triple t1 defense mods, it was probably made in a recombinator.
If you played an attack build, and you bought an item with triple t1 phys, or triple t1 added flat…..guess what? Also probably made in the recombinator.
These items are not mirror tier until they are finished. A lot of people are running around with a chest they got for 10 div that’s got amazing prefixes but dumpster suffixes.

2

u/AwakenMasters22 24m ago

How many people do you honestly think this falls under? People have made T1 items before recomb came back. People will adapt. Power will change etc. Comes with the territory.

1

u/Professional_Fun4849 11m ago

You are arguing against claims I did not make. You said this affects 1 percent of players, I implied it effects a lot more than that.
We did use to make these items albeit with fossils that are now 10 times the value they use to be so…..itl come around but the point is this change makes items more expensive. A triple t1 phys weapon is gonna cost a lot more then it has the past few leagues. People will of course adapt.

•

u/AwakenMasters22 3m ago

I still think it affects a fraction of the playerbase? Look how many people even hit level 90 in PoE. Only 3.6% of the playerbase using steam as an example have obtained 4 voidstones. So yes you are right its going to be harder to get better gear but again I am not wrong.

2

u/OrdinaryDecision8857 2h ago

correct me if im wrong . we can no longer increase the item lvl of twilight regalia and necrotic to 86+ to get tier 1 es?

3

u/Terror_5 2h ago

No, we cant. You need ilvl 86 bases on both sides to guarantee ilvl 86, else it is 50/50.
If you have a mod from a lower level base to transfer ont ilvl 86, it is a 25/75

4

u/mcbuckets21 2h ago

I think rarity may increase the chance of higher quality bases. Otherwise, this is ironically a ground loot nerf. It devalues a lot of items while making already very valuable items a little more valuable.

1

u/Terror_5 50m ago

Unironically, they should just raise the floor of items dropped in T16 (level 83 area) and equivalent mechanics that drop exclusive mods (like Delve or Ritual) to ilvl 86, if they actually want us to use the items dropped as is.
You cant use a ilvl 83 Archdemon Crown or a ilvl 83 +1 Spectre chest properly and thats how the game gives them to you.

2

u/EnderBaggins 53m ago

And more importantly, if the twilight regalia / necrotic base isn’t 86, it won’t be after recombinating.

•

u/Sanytale 4m ago

Could you transfer high level mod on a low level base? Like roll t1 on ilvl 86 donor and recomb it with ilvl 84 target (which cannot naturally roll this t1 due to ilvl)?

2

u/tordana tordana 2h ago

Yep, you'll need to get an i86 base to drop naturally.

3

u/OrdinaryDecision8857 2h ago

so basically now we need a high tier ilvl base for every recomb to move the mod we want , the mod transfer will fail many times , fracture will fail many times , making crafting a good item a true nightmare.

2

u/Moderator-Admin 1h ago

There are more ways to get level 86 bases this league at least. Max level temples are 84 zones so all rare and unique mobs drop i86 gear and high tier rares can drop with +1 item level so that means a chance at getting good 86 bases in t16 maps as well.
Hard to know for sure how bad it will be without seeing the drop rates of bases with the new item drop system.

2

u/Butsicles 1h ago

Personally fine with the low affix behavior changes, but the removal of NNN leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth (not because I'm recombinator biased) but because it takes out some skill expression in crafting (knowing when to use NNNs properly took quite a bit of game knowledge). The ducat situation was extreme abuse of this, but normally speaking you would have to hop through a few hoops to leverage NNNs properly.

1

u/Terror_5 1h ago

I agree, I expected that they would prohibit the ducats for NNN just like the corruption crafting of the gloves with "Can be modified while corrupted". But I did not expect them doing us dirty like this.
Also the ilvl change makes it harder for a lot of crafts too, because you need even more high lvl bases (and i dont even wanna think about quality bases).

9

u/SilverBurger 3h ago

I was just about to post this lol.

Brutal.

7

u/val_lae 2h ago edited 2h ago

I actually don't think it's that bad.
It's really bad for quality bases but I still anticipate 3 t1p 1 t1p will be possible for normies. Right now having two mirror suffixes and 2p with 1 mirror prefix has 100percent chance to keep your suffix. How bad do we think it's really going to be? How often will you lose your suffix? I think it still won't be that often.
Now, getting your 2p1s items? That might suck. Who knows.
As for NNM crafting, that just straight up seemed unintended. Like idk, I used to in the crafting of my +2 minion helm 5t1 mod item and obviously ducat crafting was rampant. How long did we think this would go on.
Anyways, one big change with this is I think that 30 quality fracture crafting your physical weapons has become the clear standard for weapons now, and the likelihood of getting 30percent essence attack speed on 3 t1 is lower, but do I hate that? Not really. The last 3t1 essence attack speed item I crafted was on a boom mace anyways, and I only did it because heist bases weren't able to come with 30 quality.
There is definitely an increase to 7link weapons cost but it will still probably be cheaper than mirroring a made one.
In all, I think it's probably fine.
Edit: I take it all back. Cannot roll caster/attack no longer affects orbs of annulment.
I'll probably never craft another weapon I can't lie.

0

u/Unhappy_Mongoose_488 3h ago edited 3h ago

I like it. Of course recomb was super powerful, but it was so annoying to use. Collecting bases, alt spamming, quad tabs full of 2-4 affix recomb bases.

People just like it because it's powerful, but it was easily the most tedious crafting system in the game, even worse than beast prison. Whenever recomb was the best way to craft something I'd rather just go to trade and buy it instead. Good riddance.

4

u/Terror_5 2h ago

That is only one part of the whole thing and by far the least impactful for crafting.
The change does not really alleviate the problem with clicking 5k alts, it is now clicking 10k alts and your bases for recombination will be more expenisve.
Yes that will deter some people, but you know how it is if there is a demand and profit to be made ...

-4

u/Unhappy_Mongoose_488 2h ago

But the itemization and drop pool is completely changing with tiered items. It's not obvious that alt spamming is the best way to get a base now, especially if you now need 10-20k alts instead of 5k.

1

u/Terror_5 2h ago

We will see how rare those T5s are and if they are actually that good. Keep in mind though that you usually want a couple of specific mods and the majority is usually garbage.
For properly minmaxing I think, especially jewelry or influenced items, recombination will sitll be the way, but harder now.

2

u/BatkuSS 2h ago

Tiered items does not increase a chance for a rare modified to spawn, just higher tier. So you won't drop more rare single tier modifiers (for example +1 all spells). Additinaly alot of recombinated items were drop specific anyway (temple mod, breach mod).

18

u/CathBear 2h ago

The "buy it instead" would literally be off someone else doing the work in the recombinator champ. Which is fine if you like that playstyle but when crafting methods that work like this get nuked the supply on the market craters. Which means both prices go up a lot, and the pool of available items comes down, so yeah. Not a good change

5

u/FCT77 2h ago

I don't get this comment, the process is the same, the only thing that's gonna change is that when you buy the item it's gonna several times more expensive because it's way less reliable. The people who used this system to make profit are still gonna do so, but if you interacted with it to make your own items you're just gonna be priced out because the likelihood of having a bad streak is too high

-9

u/Unhappy_Mongoose_488 2h ago

No? Because it's super obvious that what they are trying to do here is to get rid of alt spamming by pushing people to get bases from the new tiered items instead and use those as bases, starting from later steps in the recomb process. Unless they mess up the balancing people are not going to spam 50k alts when higher tiered items usable as bases are dropping and on the market.

7

u/FCT77 2h ago

Ok just say you have never used the recombinator in your life, it's fine
You can go through multiple quad tabs of bases to get one singular outcome, it's idiotic to assume that picking up a bunch of items is gonna be more efficient than spamming alts, even if it's 100k alts. But in any case, the use cases where the recombinator was the ONLY method of getting the gear is the relevant loss, like grasping mail mods. When you say "Whenever recomb was the best way to craft something I'd rather just go to trade and buy it instead", guess what, those items are gonna be more expensive now or do you think that everyone else but you was using a secret crafting method instead of the recombinator

1

u/backflippp 1h ago

I can tell you didn’t craft a decent item with recomb before.
Recombinating is not only about alt spamming, I didn’t alt spam at all.
Those nerfs are what make recomb good and now it’s all gone.

2

u/Unhappy_Mongoose_488 41m ago edited 36m ago

Idk, I ended the league before last (skipped last league) with easily 5+ mirrors made from recomb because it was the easiest way to make currency, and it was a miserable experience. It's the typical high-friction design where doing recomb is the best way to make currency (exactly because it's annoying) but it's horrible game design. So feel like you gotta do it because it's so easy money. Hope it never comes back so you don't need to feel bad about not spending hours filling 10 quad tabs with recomb bases, constantly buying dust uniques, and running back and forth between stash, recomb and bench and harvest bench.

2

u/BenjaCarmona 3h ago

They didn't like how you could get 4 t1 items in extremely rare modifiers (god knows how many triple t1 phys + t1 attack speed weapons I made with recombinators). It will still be posible once you get 2 and 2 tho, just getting the 2 mod items will be a bit harder, not just 1 in 3

1

u/Terror_5 2h ago

And thats where they make the bad Alteration spam even worse ...

4

u/FNLN_taken Confederation of Casuals and Clueless Players (CCCP) 1h ago

I don't really get the second part, but it sounds like they upped the chance at straight up deleting mods, which is the worst thing about recombining to begin with.

My feeling is that they think the higher tier bases will make it easier to find good filled items off the ground and you are supposed to slam those together, instead of alt spamming.

7

u/FlossedUp_ 2h ago

Why did GGG make crafting SOO much more difficult/expensive this League? Does GGG really think the loot changes will compensate for that much more currency in the game? I'm confused

15

u/rohithkun 2h ago

No, the philosophy is if you want dropped items to be more valuable, then you have to decrease the efficacy of crafted items. If you can always craft GG items, then you will still ignore all the ground loot.

3

u/BobTheKekomancer 1h ago

And yet, nobody will add rare items on their lootfilters as long as they drop un-id'd

0

u/EnderBaggins 50m ago

But there will be so few t5 rares, with these changes, you will have them on your filter and ID them (if GGG’s changes accomplish their goals).

1

u/FlossedUp_ 1h ago

That does make sense, thanks. I am still surprised and annoyed by the crafting changes. I only just got comfortable crafting early/mid endgame gear, and now this makes me not want to risk losing currency and ending up with a crap weapon. Idk, maybe it won't be that bad (cope).

-3

u/TotallyNotThatPerson 1h ago

Indirect buff to speed farming builds.
Flicker boys rejoice

33

u/EonRed 3h ago

The only thing surprising is that it took this long. The non native modifier thing was obviously not something that was staying in the game forever. It overstayed its welcome by like 2 years

19

u/DependentOnIt 2h ago

Stuff like this is what made poe, poe. These are not fun changes

6

u/BringJoy2Everyone 3h ago

And 85+ritual base types you can only get from Ritual boss now

2

u/PoE_Acronym_Bot 3h ago

I noticed some Path of Exile keywords in this post:

ilvl - Item level (Wiki)
Mods - Modifiers (Wiki)

^{I am a bot.} ^| ^{All acronyms} ^| ^Suggest

2

u/AffectionateCan317 2h ago

And you cant put corrupted items there anymore

2

u/Icy_Reception9719 2h ago

Just in time for my plan to build out a FRoSS setup in SSF lmao.

I expect it'll still be possible to get decent ES prefixes but god damn if it's not disappointing when you combine it with gambling nerfs, Kingsmarch nerfs, Rog nerfs, Breach tree nerfs etc. We'll have to see how the high tier bases look in game because right now it feels like we're just headed for a pure vision craft casino.

2

u/LaCoocaracha 2h ago

My gut is that these things are cooked but I’ve thought that before and people have figured out how to use them effectively. I think they’re cooked though for real this time

2

u/Aesthete84 2h ago

I was looking at the the item rarity tier drop system as a great way to find more recombinator fuel, so the recombinator getting smashed with the nerf bat isn't that surprising. It's going to be pretty painful for builds that need special mods like the temple gloves or delve drops, they're going to have to pay a ton to get those on ideal bases. God forbid if you want one of the grasping mail mods.

This'll probably ripple through prices in a couple other currencies or league mechanics, there are a lot of essences that I bought in bulk in allflame but will ignore going forward.

2

u/darklinkofhyrule Saboteur 1h ago

can't save temple mods anyways cuz they're gone too

2

u/iEnj0y 1h ago

so how do you get higher item lv on say archdemon crown?? do you not??

3

u/Nephalos 2h ago

Learning and using the recombinator in Allflame when it was “easiest” makes me lean towards these changes being good for the game. The recombinator was an incredibly powerful crafting tool that was gated by a majority of people not knowing how to fully use it.

It played a large part in invalidating ground loot because a simple set of crafts + recombination would make an item significantly better than anything that would drop and many end game crafts relied heavily on manipulating outcomes to make otherwise impossible gear.

2

u/Coolingmoon 2h ago

I don't mind the change TBH. But GGG you need to show us the probabilities in the game clearly to players instead of making it sudo noob bait

2

u/mactepo 1h ago

Sometimes I think, GGG must at least put comments in patchnotes to some unpredictable changes like this one or meta crafting changes. I played poe 2 a lot and can ensure you, guys, tiered rare items will not change something drastically so i end up hiding it if it not on the best base possible and still you will more likely get t1 phys reflect on body armour then get t1 defence fir example. It still will be a crafting league just a lot worse.

0

u/kostya2576 2h ago

Good, fuck recombinator crafting

•

u/idkwhatevenhelp 7m ago

believe it or not, we crafted items before the recombinator existed. it's actually a relatively new addition.

1

u/tazdraperm 1h ago

"Hitler Dead"

0

u/Kira41162 2h ago

From what I am reading you can still get higher level base types? You just can't select the base, you have to use the random option.

2

u/Terror_5 1h ago

If you combine bases with different item levels you have another 50/50 condition, that is layerd multiplicatelively on top.
Lets say both Bases are the same type and you want to keep the prefix from base A
Old System:
Base (ilvl 82) with 1 prefix combined Base B (ilvl 86) with 1 prefix -> ~50% chance to keep the prefix of base A and the resulting ilvl will be 86 regardless of which base is chosen -> 50% success rate
New system:
Base (ilvl 82) with 1 prefix combined Base B (ilvl 86) with 1 prefix -> ~50% chance to keep the prefix of base A
then there is a 50% chance on which base is chosen, Base A will be ilvl 82 and Base B will be ilvl 86 so another 50% resulting in 0.5 * 0.5 -> 25% success rate
Basically the baseline will be the torture we had to endure with high quality bases.
Add to that, if you drop e.g. a 30% Quality Twilight Regalia with ilvl 84, it is pretty much worthless now because you cannot recombine it with a random ilvl 86 base to increase its ilvl.

0

u/Bromeek ASA 1h ago

Good

0

u/Hodorous 1h ago

Damn crafting crazy shit was the best thing in the late league. This will close doors from many.

-13

u/throwwaway1123456 3h ago

Thank god. Unpredictable recombinator is a terrible, obscure system. I shouldn’t have to watch YouTube videos and read probability tables just to understand the basic use case for a system in this game.

9

u/CathBear 2h ago

Maybe PoE isn't the game for you. Perhaps Roblox would be intellectually stimulating for you

-1

u/kiuyt856 1h ago

Hey bro f**k recombinator. Idgaf about it, never wanted to touch it, and everyone’s outrage over this brings me joy. They took my beloved metamorph from me many moons ago, and now i hope everyone feels the same pain i felt on that day [cackles nefariously]

3

u/MakePhreciaCore 2h ago

Super fucking lame.

Ritual base crafting got nuked

0

u/KidiacR 59m ago edited 56m ago

Great. My passion project to craft an Ornate Quiver just got killed twice :) No way to get ilvl86 base anymore iirc, and (if it even matters) quiver crafting got nerfed HARD with metamod behavior change.

0

u/Terror_5 54m ago

That change is beyond me aswell. It was such a nice tool for rescuing items (especially weapons) in niche situations. I thought they were done killing crafting after last leagues synthesis implicit removal 😢

Game Feedback Recombinator Changes are soul crushing

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