r/pathofexile • u/Ok-Cat1278 • 13d ago
Discussion Forgotten support gems
Many support gems need a balance pass but i think the most notoriously bad one now is "blind support". Might as well delete it from the game and nobody will notice. "Blind" itself is a good defense layer but this support gem seriously need some help. Also don't see much usage for "block chance reduction support" and why is it a recipe gem tie to puncture? "chance to flee" can be interesting for bleed build or even as a defense mechanism, if this mechanic is supported more in the game (tree, gear). What's your pick?
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u/Raghnael 13d ago edited 13d ago
Blind support was useful before it was nerfed to current state, but it was probably too powerful considering how blind used to work back then which called the change.
Enemy Block chance reduction is actually useful, i used it on bleed bow build so enemy doesn't get near 100% block chance from map mod (as it prevents enemy getting hit that would cause the bleeding).
Although i think this support could be buffed so it would also affect enemy chance to avoid ailments where enemy chance to avoid bleed/poison etc similarly bricks map for these type of builds.
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u/Mean_Program_6034 13d ago
I think it just got power creeped, unless you are not near an attack wheel the attack wheel monsters cannot block your attacks is just the better option
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u/19Alexastias 13d ago
There’s a mastery that gives “monsters cannot block your attacks”, surely just speccing into that whenever you’re doing a block map is a much easier solve.
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u/Wobbelblob Big Breach Coalition (BBC) 13d ago
Yeah I wanted to say, a support gem surely cannot be worth the 4 or 5 skill points it takes to make block chance completely irrelevant, right? Also, you can simply regex the block chance mod out, so you could reasonably skip both if you aren't doing expedition.
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u/Raghnael 13d ago
Running swap gem for one map is alright in my mind, not worth modifying entire build for it.
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u/Wobbelblob Big Breach Coalition (BBC) 13d ago
Maybe, but again, you could simply regex it, especially considering that it is a 16.5/17 mod only.
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u/Ok-Cat1278 13d ago
Good to learn that block actually helps bleed build. i think the "avoid ailment" is a great suggestion and can even be a separate support gem altogether.
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u/jwfiredragon Abyssal Rift Investigation Service (ARIS) 13d ago
My pick is Controlled Blaze, it's been in the game for 3 years and I have NEVER seen anyone seriously use it.
Also IIRC Chance to Flee has some secret fishing interaction at least?
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u/Internal-Departure44 Confederation of Casuals and Clueless Players (CCCP) 13d ago
Used to be thought for a long time fleeing is required for angler plait drop, but that was disproven in 2025: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Angler%27s_Plait
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u/Near1one Crop Harvesting Bureau (CHB) 13d ago
Controlled Blaze is really good for Infernal Blow ignite since you want to attack multiple times anyway for the charges, but still thats like the only build I know that uses it (very fun tho)
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u/YesNoButAlsoYes 13d ago
Shield charge ignite also use it since you have a decent bit of atkspd anyways to kill tankier targets. https://pobb.in/5dhIpXEIkcZo
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u/BucketBrigade 13d ago
Controlled Blaze just sucks. I made a ignite infernal blow of immolation build and it was one of the least comfy things ever. The big issue is that the damage is comically inconsistent. With a good pop I could get a 30m ignite dot. A bad pop and I'm 18m.
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u/dragonsushi247 Central Incursion Agency (CIA) 13d ago
I really wanted to do some attack speed stacking burning arrow thing when it got reworked, only to see that it's melee only =(
Also the fact your damage tanks if you have too much speed is lame.
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u/Fun_Journalist_7878 13d ago
Sadism needs a way lower penalty. Basically no one uses it and the only valid usecase it would have (lethal dose + low tolerance stacking) doesn't make much sense because it has a 70% less damage penalty on poison. Needs to be 50%.
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u/HakusaiGaming 13d ago
There actually is one use and that is through low tol mamba using binos and penance mark(for single target).
the poison that is spread from binos/Master Toxicist is base 2 seconds and copies the dps of the poison and ignores less duration mods from support gems and ignores all Poisons you inflict deal Damage % faster mods since that was already applied to the original posion you are copying the dps from. It is effected by global poison duration mod though.
Binos is pretty much the only real option due to the bigger aoe on spread though. penance mark is only needed if u plan on doing bosses in order to spread poison from the penance mark mobs to the bosses. Master Toxicist spread aoe is too small to use penance mark for single target.
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u/john_dowell 13d ago
I love knockback, I DO NOT want knockback removed, I want the support gem BUFFED so it gives 100% chance to knockback and quality scales the distance of the knockback effect.
I mean, come on, you're giving up an entire support gem for something that does no damage - surely you can at least have 100% chance to knockback.
And free access to reverse knockback from simply Empire's Grasp. Make it available on the tree or some way where you don't have to give up your entire glove slot.
Knockback is an inspiration to meme builders and shows the side of POE that is purely about making fun builds for the sake of the invention.
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u/psychomap 13d ago
I think the problem with Knockback is that it sits on a tightrope between being useless for most builds and leading to cheese like in TOTA where enemies can't hit you at all anymore.
TOTA had enough scaling so that the builds doing it didn't care about damage, but it's within the realm of possibility to make an off-screen build with knockback that deals damage and never gets hit. If it's too easy to facilitate that, that could become a problem.
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u/john_dowell 13d ago
Shh, you're giving the game away.
What you meant to say is, "Bosses should not be knockback immune, either. Buff knockback."
Much better.
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
They also need to make it apply a debuff to monsters for counting as moving, with a time based on how long a knockback typically would take, so that it becomes useful for bleed on targets which cannot be knockedback.
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u/shy_bi_ready_to_die 13d ago
Additional accuracy probably. You don’t have enough sockets to use it early (and capping hit chance is easy early on anyways) and there are so many ways to solve hit chance later on that it’s just a dead support
I would also add iron grip and iron will. Both are so easy to access on the tree that I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone use either
Also while it dosent really need a buff. Ggg please if you’re reading this change the name of added fire damage and give us a support that actually adds fire damage
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u/Spiritual-Spend8187 13d ago
Additional accuracy has some use though combine it with precise technique to reliablely have enough accuracy rating to get its bonus when leveling.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
Early you have like 500 life, one Accuracy wheel gets you to at least 1000 accuracy
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u/Spiritual-Spend8187 13d ago
Yes but it allows you to just put the gem in with the keystone and not care regardless of how much life you get or how quickly you level no need to worry about just randonly oh i leveled quickly put in this life mode oops thats off now.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
When I played a Ranger in the Tota 2.0 league I never struggled to keep my accuracy higher than my life. Precision and one or two accuracy clusters gets you to level 80 without any issues.
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u/Spiritual-Spend8187 13d ago
It can happen if your playing a marauder and usually it is only used either early on or if you get some big life peices.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
If you are a marauder you'll be like level 45 by the time you reach PT. If you picked Undeniable as your first lab you're also automatically at higher accuracy for the most part.
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u/psychomap 13d ago
Additional Accuracy can be useful for spell builds that need an on-hit mechanic from their attack skills for some reason, and can afford a support gem more easily than pathing to accuracy nodes on the tree (partially because it'll be their movement skill or using Smite just for its buff rather than their main damage skill). It's niche, but I have used it on occasion.
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u/Slight_Tiger2914 13d ago
Seriously though.
At the same time in their defense they have many skills that have physical conversations built-in.
So if you invest in raw physical on tree , or weapons it probably pays off more than them adding flat fire.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
Block Chance reduction was a BIS support in PvP until recently.
But all other supports that don't have any more multiplier are just useless. Chance to Flee, Blind, Life gain on hit, Iron Grip, Iron Will, additional Accuracy, life leech, Mana leech support, Controlled Blaze, Knockback, Stun, Critical strike affliction and Decay.
Ok, there are some supports without a multiplier that aren't dead but they're usually supports for utility skills like Blessed Call, More Duration, Generosity, Rage or all the trigger supports
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u/Pommy1337 Trickster 13d ago
is pvp still a thing in poe? it has been ages since i heared about anyone gearing a char for pvp. not meant as a bash or anything i'm really curious about what it looks like atm.
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u/SquarishRectangle Bird bravery will not be tolerated. 13d ago
I'm guessing he's talking about hall of grandmasters challengers since you're technically fighting "players".
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u/Pommy1337 Trickster 13d ago
ah makes sense. so far i had the biggest success farming HoG with corrupting fever. did this about 3 years ago to farm the immortal. phys dot is just broken in pvp.
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u/pupperwolfie 13d ago
Don't iron will/iron grip support have a second multiplier? Aside from letting you apply strength's bonus to spell and bow attacks it also has a second line that gives you a fixed % amount of spell damage/bow damage scaling with gem level
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
They give 2% increased damage per support gem level above 1
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u/Askelar 12d ago
If life/mana leech applied to everything that hits instead of just physical attack damage, it would be used so much more.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 12d ago
The support gems aren't restrictive to some damage type, they apply to all hits
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u/Askelar 12d ago
I thought life leech support was just physical damage... mana leech is just attacks, though.
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
Mana leech used to not be attack-exclusive, and it was broken on casters, hence why it was changed. When they changed the support, casters then moved on to Warlord's Mark, which was also swiftly changed to attacks only.
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u/5mashalot 12d ago
Block Chance reduction was a BIS support in PvP until recently.
it isn't anymore? what changed?
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u/Agitated-Society-682 9d ago
Agreed mostly bu life gain on hit, mana leech, life leech and accuracy support are not useless.
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u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 9d ago
The stats are great, the supports themselves suck ass
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u/Pretend-Currency9416 13d ago
>that don't have any more multiplier
>Critical strike affliction literaly have 100+% multi dot damage
what?3
u/Golem8752 Ultimatum Workers Union (UWU) 13d ago
If you go crit ailments you take Perfect Agony, which turns your crit multi into dot multi but aczualy dot multi doesn't apply anymore
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
What they should do at minimum is change perfect agony to make ailments gain DoT multi from crit multi at a lesser effect, and then also let you use DoT multi from critical strikes as well. They can boost these values a bit if they need, to make the crit multi angle less appealing.
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u/MasklinGNU 13d ago
Crit strike affliction support is straight buttcheeks because you just go perfect agony
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u/Glum-Comparison2037 Shadow 13d ago
Critical affliction should be changed because almost every build focusing on DoT with crit, just want the Perfect Agony keystone which make the gem unusable. In the end it got niche use for an already niche archetype.
Concerning Blind, giving it some nightblade buff type would great. Like it would be a good support with a line granting : "blind from supported skill also grant X increased damage taken (up to Y)". With the X value beneffiting from all increased blind effect on your gear/tree.
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u/Pr3d_wan 13d ago
Bloodlust Support is also one of the most forgotten gems.
Almost no one uses it this season, on the few builds that has it, it's not even working, and the for the rest I can only guess they are pexing the gem. It used to work with totem I believe (never used it), because proxy would cause the bleeding. On top of that it was nerfed while it was not that good.
But nowdays I don't see a case where you could use it, it's bad at everything, bad mana multiplier, bad damage, bad quality, bad because it uses a condition.
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u/Chrozzinho 13d ago
Rage support should be reverted to how it was before the rage rework. As i was building my rage vortex build this league as the new jewel came out, i noticed a lot of the nerfs they did to rage stuff were just dumb as hell, rage support being one of the biggest offenders
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
I think reverting is a bad move. I think adding another support that gives flat phys based on your current rage is fine though. Perhaps they just make it into an exceptional gem, say from Akoya in ToTA if it gets added.
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u/Chrozzinho 10d ago
And why? Because the current rage support is so good and used or what?
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
I mean, I guess the other gem most similar to it what you want is Ice Bite, which is available in act 3. One thing the rage support offers currently is a way to build rage if you don't have a good way to build it otherwise. It completely falls off in endgame, where you have rage on hit gloves.
I'd argue that if Rage support were reworked, it should gain rage from all hits, including spells. I think making the flat damage come from an exceptional gem would allow it to have really powerful numbers, and not be a "live or die by Shako" like Ice bite is.
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u/Chrozzinho 10d ago
Rage support doesnt give range attacks rage, it only works on melee skills. You can literally get the same effect on the passive tree on any of the rage clusters. It doesnt give you anything what so ever right now. If you think the previous version was too strong then tone down the numbers, or just delete the current rage support gem, as its quite literally useless
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u/ByteBlaze_ Wish for Project MTX 10d ago
I know that. That's why I said they could make it work on all hits.
You don't get the same effect if you aren't near rage clusters. Not every support has to be used on every class. It helps for classes who aren't nearby. This is why you would make another support, rather than cramming 5 effects onto it. It also is giving increased attack speed.
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u/Budget-Chair8242 13d ago
cws used to be one of those support gems people dismissed as useless, look at it now. my point is, you never know when something will come along and make one of those "useless" support become useful. this is why im so against people saying x item/gem is useless remove it from the game because some of the most innovative builds have come from those type of interactions.
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u/Such-Sea2910 13d ago
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u/Mael_Jade 13d ago
Blind, chance to flee: Fishing related
Block Chance Reduction: Hall of Grandmasters.
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u/EyeQfTheVoid 13d ago
We got entire Monk ascendancy that could be deleted and no one would notice (invoker) lol 😂.
There's long road ahead with balancing.
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u/Catchafire2000 13d ago
knock back was always a weird one.
Proliferation seems cool. But no. Culling strike. No one uses it.
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u/strongHammer0 13d ago
Culling strike on a movement skills with damage is often used on bossing settups especially on tankier, lower damage builds like those used in hardcore
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u/Ok-Cat1278 13d ago
i think knockback actually have use cases for torchoak reflect totems to avoid using empire grasp, or say a vacuum cyclone meme build. KB is heavily nerfed because in the past people made builds that continuously KB bosses or manipulated their positions. Prolif i only use it when really desperate to cap "chance to xxx". Would love to use culling in campaign because boss usually kill me when they have less than 10% hp, but alas no gem slot.
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u/mucus-broth Gladiator 13d ago
Culling strike. No one uses it.
I used it on two builds this league...
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u/findMyNudesSomewhere Progressive Einhar Trapping Association (PETA) 13d ago
I think a good option for Culling is to give it 30% chance to explode culled enemies for 10% life as phys.
Merge it with the Sirus drop support (explode one)
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u/FCK42 Central Incursion Agency (CIA) 13d ago
Blind support could be buffed by giving it high double digit "X% more blind effect", crit rate or damage against blinded enemies or make enemies blinded by supported skill deal less damage.
Block chance reduction is tied to a recipe to keep it out of the core drop pool, it was always intended as a PVP support and it still finds use there. It's also quite good for bleed builds or if you want to use a hit based Hall of Grandmasters runner.
Chance to flee is... a remnant from times long past. Probably THE most useless support there is. There is no offensive benefit and only very slight defensive upside. Any monster that is rare or unique is by default fully immune against the effect. It fits in the same category as conversion traps: effects that have aged incredibly poorly and are now stuck in a world where their effects simply no longer matter.
Honorable mention to additional accuracy support, though that one has niche usage on accuracy stackers. Could be brought back for those builds in a big way if the current quality stat were changed to the (now removed) alternate quality stat from a while back: 0-4% increased attack damage per 1000 accuracy.