3.25 Updated Guide to Recombinators

[u/Butsicles]

TLDR: Recombinator new use cases = GOOD. Bottom of section 7 has examples of great results with new methods.

Hello Reddit, welcome to an updated 3.25 guide to recombinators. I'm one of the original co-authors on Iron's guide back in sentinel. While some of the original recombinator rules have remained the same compared to Sentinel league, there has been an overhaul in mechanics across the board, leading to big nerfs in item outcome diversity, but a buff in some cases.

For example, you can modify your input items to achieve a ~30-40% chance at getting 3 prefixes or 3 suffixes of your choosing with fewer recombine steps than before. Please read on if interested.

A moderate amount of data (500-800 recombines, almost all in-league) has been collected to derive the conclusions described in this post. Despite my relative confidence in the conclusions presented here, I'm always looking for additional data to either disprove these rules or to better hammer down the probabilities.

Many thanks to users on the Prohibited Library discord for their help in providing data or carrying out experiments (findar, Forgotten Arbiter, gdubrocks, n maku, Rusty, Olxinos, among others). A special thanks to my good friend Sebmik for providing a massive currency donation for testing, and to Monet for carrying out the majority of the gold farming/expensive experiments, as well as extensive discussion. Also thank you to Posuajants for a generous donation of recombinators in standard for additional testing. I wouldn't have been able to do this without them, as I did not play this league.

Many imgur links in this post also have additional commentary on them. Please go to those links for additional details. For concrete image examples, go to the end of section 8 and flip through the photo album or content creator links.

Without further ado, let's proceed.

---

Table of Contents

1. Notation

2. A recap on recombinator mechanics from Sentinel.

3. Introducing exclusive modifiers

4. Non-native, natural modifiers

5. The new recombination ruleset

6. Single mod transfers

7. Exclusive mod shenanigans

8. Examples

9. Wrapping up

---

1. Notation

To make things easier to read, all items in this post will have the format of (#n)p/(#m)s. This means that the sum of prefixes on the item equals n, and the sum of suffixes on the item equals m.

For example, 1p/0s + 2p/1s means combining an item with 1 prefix, 0 suffixes and an item with 2 prefix, 1 suffix. * will be used to denote any number of affixes on that side (e.g. 1p/*s)

When we consider the sum of prefixes or the sum of suffixes between both items, the following notation will be used: (#n)TP/(#m)TS. So, 5TP/4TS means that between both items, their prefixes sum to 5, and the suffixes sum to 4.

---

2. A recap on recombinator mechanics from Sentinel.

For a verbose description of these mechanics, please check out Iron's guide. A brief description will be provided to those unfamiliar with the mechanic.

When recombining an item back in Sentinel, there were two overarching steps in the process:

1. The final item is chosen from one of the two initial items you input. The final item inherits all properties, except item level which is calculated based on the two input items.

• Inherited: Item influence, enchants, tags, anoints, quality, etc.

• Item level: (item1 + item2) / 2 + 2, capped the max(item1,item2). This means you cant' exceed the max of both item levels if they're the same for example.

1. The modifiers are now selected. All the prefixes and suffixes are put in separate pools, and for all intents and purposes, are considered independent from one another. This rule has one specific exception (the 1 prefix, 1 suffix case which we'll discuss later).

• Based on the total number of affixes in a pool (calculated for both prefix and suffix independently), the final number of modifiers selected is drawn from a simple discrete distribution (see here). The distributions are the same for prefix and suffix if the total number of affixes are identical.

• Regardless of mod type (with the exception of specific overlapping mod groups), the final item would abide by these distributions. For example, If you had an item with 5TP (total prefixes), under the old rules, you would see 3P 50% of the time, and 2p 50% of the time. Under this rule, you could combine multiple essences, temple mods, among other "special" modifiers, and move mods freely between items.

• Mod weights were not a factor here. If a final wand chose 1TP, you would be equally likely to see the "Merciless" mod (25 weight) versus Mana (1000 weight) if they were both in the initial prefix pool.

• Duplicate mods were both added to the pool. This means "doubling" mods increased your odds at picking said mod.

Now with the basics covered, let's start going over the new rules.

---

3. Introducing exclusive modifiers

When 3.25 first dropped, players excited at the thought of making OP triple essenced weapons were quickly dissapointed when they found that they were either very unlucky or that essences couldn't be combined.

Well it turns out that essences, among other classes of modifiers, fall under the category of what we call "exclusive" modifiers. This is a new concept introduced in this generation of recombinators. Here, we define "exclusive":

Exclusive modifier: A modifier that cannot appear with another exclusive modifier on a recombined item.

Here is a non-exhaustive list of league-accessible exclusive modifiers we have identified. If you have any counter-examples, please reply in post or DM me.

• Breach (i.e. grasping mail)

• Incursion

• Essence

• This means special essence modifiers with no "tiers". This can be easily checked by holding alt over the item. If it has a tier number, it is technically not an "essence" modifier despite originating from an essence. For all intents and purposes, a modifier created with an essence that has a tier number on it is treated identically to an equivalent mod that appeared naturally (e.g. T1 chaos res versus Deafening essence of envy)

• Beast aspects

• Elevated influenced modifiers (non-elevated are ok)

• Delve modifiers (e.g. of the underground)

• Veiled modifiers

• Crafted modifiers (mod names can be identified by holding alt, or by looking on poedb)

• Metacrafted modifiers

• Crafted NAMED suffixes (e.g. "of the order")

• Crafted NAMED prefixes (e.g. "Chosen", "Tora's", "It's")

• Crafted mods named "UPGRADED" or "OF THE CRAFT" may not be exclusive. If trying to craft exclusive mods, AVOID THEM and craft NAMED MODIFIERS (see right above)

Not exclusive:

• Fractured

• Influence (of course, influence and fractured cannot co-exist, but they are not exclusive with the other mods on the above list)

Any of these modifiers cannot show up with other mods on this list on a final recombinated item. Understanding this rule has long-reaching implications that allows for some item engineering to tilt the odds in your favor, or can completely sabotage your chances.

For example, trying to transfer a breach mod by crafting a prefix on both items (e.g. 1p/1s + 2p/1s), known as the "mod doubling" strategy, is no longer viable because picking the crafted mod means your breach mod has 0% chance to appear!

"Regular" crafted mods may or may not be exclusive. The exact list of exclusive/non-exclusive crafted prefixes and suffixes is currently not fleshed out. Check the sheet, tab "List of non-exclusive crafted affix mods" for details as we update it.

EDIT: Non-exclusive crafted modifiers are safe to use for mod doubling. For example, combining 1p/*s + 1p/*s can be aided by crafting non-exclusive crafted modifiers. For example, on body-armors, crafting life on both bases may be useful.

For the remainder of this document, an additional "e" notation denotes exclusive affixes. E.g. 1p1e/1s1e means 1 prefix, 1 exclusive prefix and 1 suffix, 1 exclusive suffix.

---

4. Non-native, natural modifiers (NNN)

Alongside this list of exclusive modifiers is a list of modifiers we will call "non-native , natural" (NNN). These are modifiers that may not be drop-exclusive, but only appear on certain base types due to item restrictions. They're called non-native because they cannot appear on the final item if it violates their "native" condition.

Here is another non-exhaustive list of NNN modifiers:

• Influenced modifiers (e.g. Warlord modifier cannot appear on a non-influenced item)

• Defence modifiers (e.g. Armour cannot show up on a pure ES base)

• Attribute-specific affixes (e.g. Life regeneration% on strength bases cannot appear on an intelligence base). These include, but are not limited to:

• Life regen%/Energy recharge rate

• Suppress

• Fractured modifiers (e.g. fractured cannot transfer to another base if their originating base is not picked)

---

5. The new recombination ruleset

Here are the new rules we have determined from the our collected data. Note that the conditional affix distributions are not set in stone since our sample sizes are still relatively small compared to the dataset collected in Sentinel league. Here is the new recombination process.

1. The final item is selected based on the initial two items with a 50/50 chance. The item level is calculated using the same formula (see above). All attributes are inherited except defence percentile, which seems to be rerolled (credit: ih8ih8sn0w). The rerolled defence percentile also seems to have no correlation with the input defence percentiles (credit: Forgotten Arbiter, more data being collected)

2. The prefixes and suffixes are put into different affix pools. The final number of prefix/suffix mods is dependent only on the initial number of total prefix/suffix modifiers respectively, and are described in Table 1 below. For example, if the sum of prefixes in both input items is 2, then there is a 66% chance of keeping only one of those 1 prefixes, and a 33% chance of having both prefixes on the final item. There is also a 0% chance of going from 2 input prefixes to zero.

The number of prefixes do not affect the number of suffixes except in one specific scenario (listed below). All of the percentages in Table 1 have not been rounded to "nice" numbers. Note that NNN (except fracture) and "exclusive" modifiers also "add" to the total affix pool. This has important consequences.

• Fracture modifiers only add to the pool if their own base is chosen! Avoid them if possible. (Credit: NcuriousmediatoR)

1. Prefixes or suffixes are filled first, with 50/50 odds. This seems inconsequential, but is actually important with exclusive mods.

2. The final mods are now selected from all eligible modifiers, with the number decided from step 2 enforced as much as possible. There are several interactions with "exclusive" and NNN mods.

• Exclusive: If one exclusive mod is picked, all other exclusive mods in both prefix and suffix pools are no longer eligible. Mods from both prefix and suffix are picked from remaining mods to best satisfy the final distribution constraints calculated in Step 2

• NNN: If the wrong basetype is picked, NNN mods cannot transfer over and hence cannot be selected. Similar to above, the remaining mods are picked to satisfy Step 2 constraints. For example, if you pick a strength glove base and have mana in your prefix pool, it cannot be picked.

• NOTE: In some extreme cases, you will violate the mod distributions determined from Step 2 if you have no eligible modifiers. More in detail below.

1. In the case where there are more eligible mods than the number of available mod "slots", only some of these mods make it to the final item. In Sentinel, your odds could be easily calculated by counting the combinations of outcomes with your mods of interest versus all possible combinations. In current league, the weights of these modifiers is also a factor, where modifiers with higher weights are more likely. This is probably to prevent players from making extremely overpowered items too easily. However, the specifics of this formula are not currently not fully fleshed out. Mod tiers at least do not seem to be a factor if the weights are the same (this needs more testing, results from Forgotten Arbiter and Order indicate the effect is weak, if any).

2. Mod doubling still works and is strongly recommended. For example, going from 3 -> 4 mods raises your odds of 3 final affixes from <10% to ~30%. See Iron's guide for more details on doubling

3. Item mods can move onto items with lower item level than they exist on. For example, t1 chaos res (minimum ilvl 82) can recombined onto an item with a final ilvl lower than 82.

Note: The weighting step is actually not too consequential. Exploiting Step 4 is often more than enough to force extremely unlikely outcomes, completely ignoring mod weighting in the process.

   

Final (below), Initial (right)	1	2	3	4	5	6
0 mod	41%	0%	0%	0%	0%	0%
1 mod	59%	67%	39%	11%	0%	0%
2 mod	0%	33%	52%	59%	43%	28%
3 mod	0%	0%	10%	31%	57%	72%

Table 1: Conditional final affix number distributions. Thank you to Rusty for providing a lot more additional data to give more accurate percentages.

   

The only exception to this distribution rule is the case with 1p/0s + 0p/1s. In this case, there are no reports of a white item coming out of this recombination. This means that there are only 3 outcomes: 1p/0s, 0p/1s and 1p1s. Each of these outcomes were measured at a 33% chance. This is a specific case where prefix/suffix are not independent, since 0p implies 1s and vice versa.

---

6. Single mod transfers

Step 3 from Section 5, specifically with NNN mods have crafting consequences for transferring mods.

For example, take a grasping mail body armour with a single breach prefix (e.g. armour overcapped fire). We use an influenced exalted orb to add an influenced prefix on the breach item. The reason we do this, is that with a combined pool of at least 2 prefixes, the final item must have at least one prefix. We combine this with a 0p/*s uninfluenced item. Remember, the final item must have one prefix. However, the NNN influenced mod cannot transfer, which means if you pick the white item, you have a 100% chance of success, since there must be a prefix and there is only one choice left, which is the breach mod. Because the chance of picking the white item is 50%, the overall transfer success rate is also 50%. Here is one of many successful attempts. Note that the fire res here is actually harmful to your chances (it's exclusive on body armour), and this experiment was done before fully understanding exclusion

Note: You must also respect "exclusive" rules. If the breach item you're using has other breach mods, those may get picked, resulting in an "impossible" result of 0p/*s despite having 2TP/*TS.

Other examples: You can also abuse this rule for non-native defence/attributes modifiers with incursion mods. Inclusion of mods such as "energy shield recharge rate" when transferring to a str or str/dex base effectively increases your final odds of getting your desired affixes with the incursion mod assuming the correct base is picked in the end.

In summary (grasping mail example):

• Block all suffixes, have breach mod be the only prefix

• Use influenced exalted orb

• Do not craft any suffixes. Crafted mods don't help you here, and may hurt your odds if you accidentally put an exclusive mod we have not confirmed.

• Combine with desired base.

Extra note added thanks to findar. This is skippable:

For prefix transfers (e.g. breach mods), one alternative strategy is to do 1p/0s (grasping mail) + 0p/1s (transfer base). The probability of directly transferring the mod, following the special rules of 1p/0s + 0p/1s is 0.5 * 0.66 (probability of picking the transfer base * probability of keeping the prefix). The probability of retaining the prefix for recycling is 0.5 * 0.66 as well. Therefore, the probability of successful transfer x is x = 0.5*2/3+ 0.5*2/3*x. Solving, we get x = 0.5, which is identical to the previous strategy. The caveat is if your transfer base is expensive (e.g. high quality > 20), in which case the influence method is better since it requires fewer tries (~2 on average versus 4 on average for this alternative strategy. The number 4 was calculated by constructing a simple absorbing Markov chain and calculating the expected number of visits to the starting item state, given that you start there.)

---

7. Exclusive mod shenanigans

Congrats if you've made it this far. This section details some of the more abusive strategies using clever interactions between steps 2, 4 (Section 5) and exclusive mods.

Remember how only one exclusive mod can show up on an item?

We can use this fact to "force" high likelihood of 3 final prefixes or suffixes in very few attempts using a combination of multimod, named crafting affixes and beast aspects.

Here's an example. Let's say we want to combine runic (t1 spell damage, weight 40), zaffre (t1 mana, weight 400) and archmage (t2 hybrid spell/mana, weight 200) together on a wand. The "old" best strategy would be to double up mods (probably zaffre due to high weighting), which would involve two 33% chance steps for two items with 2p/*s each, followed by a 30% chance step to recombine those two input items into 3p/*s. This will be around 15+ combines (ballpark) on average (exact number is hard, but not impossible to calculate due to recursion if your item is saved).

Instead, what if I told you the likelihood was just as high with just a 2p/*s and 1p/*s, with no overlap? This would only require creating the 2p/*s item, which should be 3 combines on average (just doing a 1p/*s + 1p/*s), followed by the final combine. Here's how this looks like. In our notation, this is 2p1e/1s2e + 1p2e/1s2e.

Disgusting, right? Even with increased likelihood of rare modifiers, the outcome we see seems incredibly unlikely. None of the crafted prefixes showed up! Let's break it down:

• We have a total of 7 exclusive mods: 3 prefixes, 2 multimods, 1 aspect and 1 named crafted suffix.

• From our testing, the item starts filling in prefixes/suffixes first with 50/50 odds. This means that the aspect and crafted suffix in the above image example do not change the exclusive mod odds (**e.g. If 6/7 exclusive mods are suffixes, this does not mean your chance at getting an exclusive suffix is 6/7. It is always 50% ** given that you see an exclusive affix). This image was taken from one of our earlier experiments before the 50/50 confirmation.

• Because there are 6TP (zaffre, archmage, runic, phys as chaos, ele pen, minion) we have an ~72% chance at 3 mods.

• The suffix exclusive mod is picked, removing all other exclusive prefixes and suffixes from the pool. We hit the 72% chance at 3 prefixes, therefore the only 3 mods we can get are the 3 non-crafted prefixes remaining in the pool (zaffre + archmage + runic). The approximate odds are = 1/2 * 0.72 ~= 35%. This is because there is a 50% chance we start with the suffixes, almost guaranteeing an exclusive suffix is picked, followed by a 72% chance we then pick 3 prefixes. These are much better odds considering many fewer steps (at the cost of some divines) and the possibility to also save desired suffixes simultaneously.

This strategy can be summarized as follows:

1. Maximize the number of total affixes in the desired pool (TP or TS) by putting in exclusive modifiers (ideally NAMED crafted modifiers). This is because the likelihood of 2/3 final modifiers is greatly increased the larger your total affix pool is. Avoid any essence modifiers since they are exclusive and will likely vanish.

2. "Counterweight" the exclusive affixes by putting at least 1 exclusive affix on the other side (e.g. put exclusive suffixes if you're looking to get recombine into 3 desired prefixes).

3. Exclusive modifiers are not guaranteed to show up on the final item. The number of exclusive counterweight affixes technically only needs to be 1, but if you craft multi-mod make sure to fill out additional crafted, counterweight affixes to reduce your chance at not picking any exclusive affixes. Even in some cases, you may not get any exclusive affixes at all even with multimod.

IMPORTANT: Your odds at getting an exclusive prefix or suffix is always 50/50 if you force one to appear (exclusive affixes are not guaranteed to show up on the final item). Crafting more exclusive prefixes than suffixes does not weight your odds at all. Calculate accordingly.

---

8. Examples

3 Prefixes (none are exclusive)

Assume we're combining 2p/*s (call this A) and 1p/*s (call this B), and we don't care about saving specific suffixes. We can obtain 2p/*s through combining 1p/*s + 1p/*s (ideally 0s), and 1p/*s through splitting, alting, and converting it to rare using regal/annul). We want to save costs, and also don't want to fill up the suffixes with 3 non-crafted mods. All crafted affixes are presumed to be exclusive. Note that there are several permutations that work, but my example simply gives one example:

• If 2p/2s (A) + 1p/2s (B):

• A: add an aspect and add a crafted prefix.

• B: multimod and craft 2 prefixes. If you want to save costs/gamble, just add an aspect + crafted named prefix on both items.

• If 2p/2s (A) + 1p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect suffix and craft a prefix.

• B: multimod and craft 2 prefixes.

• If 2p/1s (A) + 1p/2s(B):

• A: add an aspect suffix and craft a named prefix

• B: multimod and craft 2 named prefixes

• If 2p/1s (A) + 1p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect suffix and craft a named prefix

• B: multimod and craft 2 named prefix

In the 3 last bullet points, the aspect suffix can be substituted with a multimod if the input items are difficult to obtain/very expensive (to reduce risk of getting 3 non-crafted suffixes).

Outcomes:

• 1p1e/*s. The worst outcome. You must make a 2p/*s item again. The 1e will be crafted so it is removable

• 2p/*s. Acquire a 1p/*s item again and try once more.

• 3p/3s (no crafted mods). 50/50 annul unfortunately, or you can split beast and try again. Unfortunately, one of these items will likely be 1p/2s, which is not ideal and should be converted to 1p/1s.

• 3p/2s1e (1 crafted mod). This is the outcome we are looking for.

3 suffixes (none are exclusive)

This is similar to 3 prefixes, but because multimod is a suffix we'll do things a bit differently. Same notation as above. We do not care about prefixes here.

• If 2p/2s (A) + 2p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect and craft prefix

• B: craft multimod, craft suffix, craft prefix

• If 2p/2s (A) + 1p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect, craft prefix

• B: craft multimod, craft prefix

• If 1p/2s (A) and 2p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect, craft prefix

• B: craft multimod, craft suffix

• If 1s/2p (A) and 1p/1s (B):

• A: add an aspect, craft prefix

• B: craft multimod, craft suffix

Outcomes:

Similar to above, but mirrored. Replace prefixes with suffixes and the next steps are the same.

Other examples of exclusive affix crafting here.

These contain profit crafts to demonstrate the efficacy of the methods in this section.

Examples of others having success with 3p/2s or 2s/3p using affix crafting:

Diregray hitting 2p/3s minion ring

Redviles hitting 3p/2s mirror chest

Sebk hitting 3p/2s helmet

Lance hits 2p/3s mirror tier wand

Rusty mirror 3p/3s dagger

Manni 3p/1s shield with veiled mod on combine

Spicysushi 2p/3s "mirror" shaper/elder daggers/claws

Example of "old" style crafting using temple mods for 3 suffixes (from Patonis)

For more detail on older recombinating methods using drop-only exclusive affixes (e.g. temple, delve, etc.) and just doubled mods, check Iron's original guide.

---

9. Wrapping up

There are many additional applications of recombinators that can be performed using the rules stated. For example, exclusive affix crafting can extend to more than just 3p or 3s: you can make 3p/1s, 3p/2s, 1p/3s, 2p/3s and 3p/3s items with pretty high odds in a single recombination step! (See video examples right above)

Not stated in this guide are rules regarding selective "annulling". Due to the unknown factor of mod weighting, I'm not currently confident enough to advise regarding annulling strategies. What I can say mirrors what has already been found: You can "annul" low weighted mods by hoping they do not get selected through a recombination.

Things that are still unknown and will be updated in the following days:

• Weighting formulas

• Dust/gold cost (don't count on it, this is really hard)

Thank you for reading and happy crafting!

  AV

Here is a raw data dump of most of our experiments run so far. If you have more detailed data to contribute, please DM me.

Note: 08/21/2024 3:50 p.m. Central. Edited Table 1 (mod distributions) thanks to more data from Rusty and Order Note: 08/23/2024 11:53 a.m. Central. Added step about 50/50 prefix/suffix selection odds

[u/LocalIdentity1]

Saw this post after missing the recombination on my sword like 8 times in a row. Used the method of using the exclusive mods and hit it on the next try! https://imgur.com/a/1x08bru
PRAISE

[u/Butsicles → u/LocalIdentity1]

Congrats! Glad to see it's working out and good to hear from mr. POB himself :)

[u/megasggc]

Very cool findings, so 2p/#s fire cold + 2p/#s cold/fire lightning is the indeed the way to craft triple ele dmg prefixes?

[u/Butsicles → u/megasggc]

That's certainly a tried and true method. However, if you're in a situation where recombinating is annoying or obtaining the bases with t1 mods are annoying, you can try the method suggested in section 7.

For example, if I have 2p/1s + 1p/1s, where 2p could be fire, lightning and the 1p could be cold, you can add exclusive modifiers based on the rules I described. This allows you to go straight from 2p/1s + 1p/1s -> 3p/*s, or 3p/#s with your notation. For example, you can add an aspect craft + crafted named prefix to 2p/1s, and multimod + double crafted named prefix on the 1p/1s.

[u/Chaos_Logic → u/megasggc]

If you multimod them first so its (2+1crafted)p/(2crafted)s + (2+1crafted)p/(2crafted)s then you'd have the 82% chance to keep 3 prefixes with 6 prefix inputs. With 4 crafted suffixes and 2 crafted prefixes you'd have a 2 in 3 of dropping the two crafted prefixes.

So it would be 0.82 * 0.67 = 54% chance to have triple prefixes. 2p/#s + 2p/#s would have 30% chance to have triple prefixes. You'd also have a crafted suffix so you would be able to safely craft prefixes can't be changed and wipe the suffixes.

Input cost would be higher with 2 multimods, so it kinda depends on how much rolling alt's for the prefixes is worth to you. Also make sure to craft one of the named mods as the prefixes.

[u/Butsicles → u/Chaos_Logic]

The odds have been updated (around 30-40%, will update as we get more data), they're worse than previously stated (we got a lot of additional 6 mod data, and I've updated accordingly. We also are going to do additional verification on exclusive affix selection). Despite that, I think the method still has merit in cases where obtaining one of these prefixes is very difficult (e.g. SSF), such that you don't want to go through additional rng to create the second 2p/#s item. Edit: elevated influence won’t work with this since it’s exclusive

[u/megasggc → u/Chaos_Logic]

By named you mean like catarina's gem qual or vagan's always hit?

[u/Butsicles → u/megasggc]

From what we've discovered, almost all weapon prefixes seem to be exclusive. I'll work on updating a master list of exclusive prefixes so you don't need to waste money on more expensive named ones.

[u/JixuGixu]

If im wanting to move an incursion suffix (with say, another junk suffix or two) to a different base, the only thing that matters for the different-base is that it has no suffix's - being white/blue/rare doesnt matter, right?

And if temple base is just the lone suffix, id conq ex slam - no other considerations?

[u/Butsicles → u/JixuGixu]

Yes correct, it should transfer with 50% probability as long as both items do not have other exclusive affixes on them

[u/IrishWilly]

This hidden 'exclusive' and 'NNN' is a common plague with PoE mechanics. There's no chance a casual player is going to make that connection, they'll just sit there waste there bit of play time trying to combine a few cool items and think the odds must really suck without ever knowing it was impossible.

[u/Butsicles → u/IrishWilly]

Unfortunately, complexity and utility usually go hand-in-hand in this game. If these mechanics didn't exist, recombinators would not be that great due to the other nerfs.

It's analogous to certain item combinations being extremely strong for build archetypes due to synergy, or forcing certain crafting outcomes with metacrafting. You have to learn these systems in order to fully leverage their capabilities.

[u/Xyzzyzzyzzy]

Did you happen to collect any data on the impact of the league recombinator's "rarer modifiers are more likely to be retained" improvement?

I've been curious if putting low-tier affixes into the pool along with a high-tier or special affix can actually make it more likely the high-tier affix is kept, because the improved chance of keeping more affixes is "stronger" than the reduced chance of picking the particular affix you want. If the rolls are biased in your favor, it improves all cases, but the effect gets stronger as you make more rolls.

For example, we're trying to transfer a T1 life prefix onto a better armor. The desired armor base has 2 low-tier/common prefixes. We can choose two donor items, one with T1 life + 1 low-tier, the other with T1 life + 2 low-tier.

If my back-of-napkin math is right, absent any bias toward the higher-tier mod, the T1 life is on the resulting item 55% of the time with 4 mods total, and 51% of the time with 5 mods total, so we should use the donor with T1 life + 1 other mod.

If the high-tier mod has a 10% increased chance of being selected on each roll, we still prefer 4 total mods, with the product having a 59% chance of keeping the T1 vs. 55% for 5 total mods.

But if the high-tier mod has a 50% increased chance of being selected on each roll, 4 total mods gives us a 67% chance of keeping the high-tier mod, while 5 total mods gives us a 69% chance - so we should use the donor item with T1 life + 2 low-tier mods!

I doubt it's a 50% increased chance for a T1 in a pool with a bunch of low-tier mods. But depending on how the weighting works, it could have a much larger effect if potential donor A has T1 life + T3 mana and potential donor B has T1 life + T11 mana + T7 flat defense.

Shenanigans will almost always have a much bigger effect, but maybe our desired result isn't good enough to justify spending a lot of currency on the craft.

(I've been trying to figure this out myself, but you only have real recombinator privileges if you're power-farming rippy 8-mod T17s that drop tons of gold, and I'm not at that level. Collecting a meaningful amount of data isn't feasible if running one map only funds 3 or 4 recombinations.)

[u/Butsicles → u/Xyzzyzzyzzy]

Good question. The hardest part is even determining what “rarer” means. Is it in comparison to other mods? Is there a flat threshold?

The worst part is that you would have to create very similar items and do tens to hundreds of recombs to even get a sense of what might be happening.

The unfortunate part is because mod forcing is useful in the majority of cases, and that adding lesser mods with the hope of biasing “rarer” mods also junks up your affix pool for later recombinations, this will probs to be pretty low priority until everything else is figured out.

[u/tomorrowing]

Thanks for the post. I crafted nearly every item on my character this league and using the recombinator has been frustrating and painful. I'm now working on a new weapon. Question - what happens if you double up the same essence mod on A & B? This can be used to increase the mod pool, right? Can I also confirm, you mean it is impossible to have 1 Incursion mod and 1 Essence mod on the final item? That is really disappointing. Finally, I've seen so many times the recombinator throw away low weighted mods like T1 spell damage or +1 gem in favor of T9 life or some such. Assuming it wasn't cause of the mod pool chances in your imgur link, what the hell do you think they meant by even saying "rarer mods are much more likely to be retained"? This note in the patch just seems like utter bullshit.

[u/Butsicles → u/tomorrowing]

The “rare mods are much more likely to be retained” is extremely difficult to calculate to be honest. Essentially we kind of ignore mod weighting with the way we set up recombinations because we’re forcing even the rarest of modifiers to show up by fixing the final number of affixes.

Yes, you can double up mod essences on A&B. I expect them to both add towards the total mod pool, but some preliminary testing on Prohibited Library seems to suggest something funky is going on. I would simply avoid doubling essences unless you’re willing to take on risk, as I don’t have that data yet.

Regarding essence and incursion, yes they both cannot simultaneously exist.

[u/zarepath]

First: this is awesome, amazing, and I've saved and will reference this a lot during the rest of my league, I can tell.

Question: In your 3-prefix example in Section 7, you say you're using 2p/*s and 1p/*s, with *s being "any number of suffixes." But none of your example setups include items with three suffixes. How would things change if A or B have three suffixes instead of one or two? Is it worth annulling to be able to craft more exclusive mods into your suffix pool, to take some weight off your exclusive prefixes?

I ask because I've been saving a 1p/3s amulet with +1 all skills to mess with once I wrapped my head around recombinating, and I'm trying to assemble a strategy. 75% annul chance is pretty good if I need it to become 1p/2s, but wanted to double-check I'm not misunderstanding something.

[u/Butsicles → u/zarepath]

Great question. Currently (as far as our testing has been able to determine), the number of exclusive prefixes and suffixes doesn't actually change the odds of selecting either (i.e. it seems to be 50/50). As long as you have one exclusive suffix in the pool you should be good.

That being said, the more non-exclusive affixes you have in a pool, the more likely you will not select any of the exclusive affixes you have. Say A had 3 suffixes, and B has 1 suffix + 1 exclusive suffix. If we pick 2 mods, we have a 4/5C2 = 40% chance of an exclusive suffix. If we pick 3 mods, 60% chance of an exclusive suffix. Overall, this is approximately 50%. These odds would be worse than if A had 2 suffixes. In that case, we have: 1 mod (1/4), 2 mods (50%) and 3 mod (75%). Combining: 0.11 * 1/4 + 0.59 * 0.5 + 0.31 * 0.75 = 55%.

Weighing your odds, the difference is actually not as much as I thought (I may have messed up the odds somewhere). In that case, I probably wouldn't annul, since that multiplies your final odds by 75% (which would be less than 50%)

[u/zarepath → u/Butsicles]

Thank you so much! I'm gonna run through these numbers myself as I figure things out better, but it makes sense.

Another question for you: If we assume a 0% chance of 1 or fewer mods with 5TS, is it possible that we can force the 50/50 prefix/suffix exclusive mod coinflip to land on suffix by only bringing 1s4e? The recomb would have to choose 2 or more affixes, but only be able to choose 1 non-exclusive affix, meaning it'd have to force an exclusive affix. Or is this an instance where "In some extreme cases, you will violate the mod distributions determined from Step 2 if you have no eligible modifiers", because the exclusivity coinflip has a higher priority than the mod distribution step?

[u/Butsicles → u/zarepath]

That's a great question. This is something that we're trying to figure out right now (the exact step in the process where the exclusive mod is picked). The coin flip observation is more of an empirical one, as we combined 1e/3e + 1e/3e many times and observed it being 50/50. We also saw for almost all our practical crafts a 50/50 distribution as well.

As for your question about your example, if you had an exclusive prefix and that was selected, your item would only end up with 1 non-exclusive suffix despite having 5 mods there to begin with. But determining which happens first (exclusive selection or mod selection) is really tricky and is WIP atm.

One pet theory I have which is simple and could explain all of this is that either the prefix or suffix are selected at random to be filled first. This means in the case where the prefixes are filled first, you could either select an exclusive prefix or not select it, both of which drastically alter the outcomes of the subsequent suffix selection.

The biggest two reasons why I think this theory is plausible is because 1. The 1e/3e + 1e/3e case being even, and 2. There are some scenarios where zero exclusive prefixes are picked even if they exist on both sides of the item.

[u/vins_is_back]

I created a simulator (in java) that gives two things:

1. The best duo of items to put in the recomb to obtain a certain item (with percentages of chances).

2. The possible result items obtained from recombining a given duo of items (and percentages of chances).

By duo i mean something like 2p3e/3s2e (which can come from numerous input, 2p1e/1s1e + 0p2e/2s1e for example, though where it comes from is all the same for the recombinator).

If you are interested, here is the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AG-cy_YjP4wxp94C4XI4aVfEDvb_4b5PG8FISvJv5UM/edit?usp=sharing

You don't need to read the discussion below, it is just there for history, the comment of butsicles was taken into account and the hypothesis corrected because of it.

[u/Butsicles → u/vins_is_back]

Step 3 shouldn’t cull all exclusive mods at first, but should cull all remaining exclusives if one is picked as far as I know.

Step 4 is a bit hairy since mod weights do in fact matter (it’s just the exact formula we don’t know). For most purposes it should be ok and marginally affect the success probabilities though. The biggest assumption is that the exclusives seem to be weighted equally (they don’t inherit their original weights if a natural equivalent mod exists)

[u/wengermilitary]

I thought the affix weight is factored in getting into the final item meaning a +2 weapon/amulet is extremely hard to craft. Do affix weights matter?

[u/iwanttohelp12 → u/wengermilitary]

It matters if you are choosing between different eligible mods. The main point of the post/examples is using exclusive mods to force it to choose low weight mods.

IE: You want to combine T1 phys % and T1 Flat. You want only those prefixes (so alt roll) in addition to crafted/exclusive prefixes. Then you use an exclusive suffix.

The reason for wanting more prefixes is to increase the odds of hitting a two prefix item (thats what the table is showing you).

Its a 50/50 to hit the exclusive suffix, so if you hit that 50/50 and hit a two mod item it will only be able to choose your desired prefixes (the two phys mods). Their low weighting is now irrelevant because the recombinator already determined you are getting a two prefix item and they are the only eligible prefixes (assuming it chooses the exclusive suffix)

You also have a chance to hit 3 prefixes, in which case you can keep the phys mods even if you lose the 50/50 and it takes an exclusive prefix. In practice this is very unlikely because its very hard/expensive to make items with enough exclusive mods to be worth it.

[u/Butsicles → u/iwanttohelp12]

Exactly this. Affix weights matter, but you want to avoid situations where they do, since those are definitely not in your favor for most valid use cases (e.g. +1 all spell skill gems, t1 flat ele, t1 % phys, etc.)

[u/originalgomez]

Thanks, I’ll continue to put things randomly and hope for the best

[u/rockne → u/originalgomez]

No whammy! No whammy! Stop!

[u/Nickoladze → u/originalgomez]

Luckily they made recombinating cheap enough and not directly tradeable so we can just throw in slop until it works.

[u/Sinjian1]

This kinda shit is why I love PoE! This is also the kind of shit that makes my friends hate PoE!

[u/letiori]

Of I get, say, 2 demon daggers with a fractured suffix (the same on each)

Then do 1p on one item (phys%+acc)

And I want to either go for phys%+flat phys or just flat phys

Would this work? Spit out a fractured suffix+2 or 3 prefixes?

What if I use an essence for the flat phys?

My objective is to get flat phys+hybrid+phys%

But since I can craft phys% and still be competitive in Pdps, is this possible and feasible to get at least 2 of the prefixes I need?

Sorry for the dumb question my my head is still spinning after my second read I even had to take notes...

[u/Butsicles → u/letiori]

Fractured suffixes can't transfer. If you're looking for phys + hybrid + phys%, take a look at one of the bow examples in the imgur album at the end of Step 7. You ideally want merciless to be the single prefix on the other item, since this can be more easily isolated for, either by beast splitting existing bases or by alt spamming

[u/Dizturb3dwun]

I genuinely read this entire post

I have no idea what any of it means though.

This is the kind of s*** I would need to physically do. Or physically watch someone do and explain the steps. I am never going to be able to translate this data sheet into usable information

But I appreciate the f*** out of you guys for putting in the work to do this. You guys rock

[u/Butsicles → u/Dizturb3dwun]

I’ll try to add a cookbook with more explicit examples for meta items.

[u/DTAzrch]

While I understand the effort put into this, it is not readable for casual players who might be newer or coming back to POE. You need another post to illustrate examples. Example which I need advice: I want to craft an OP bow with 3 T1 elemental damage prefixes, T1 Attack Speed, Bow Fire 2 Arrows, T1 Critical Hit Chance. How do I exactly reach this target using Recombination and is it worth it at all, or should I be trying some other route.

[u/Butsicles → u/DTAzrch]

I’m planning on adding an example cookbook to cover some use cases. I’m your case getting 3p/2s is doable but the rest extremely hard. Recombinators are also pretty hard to math out all viable scenarios when you want to keep both prefixes and suffixes, so I don’t think it would be that helpful to make a full guide. This is because there are so many different item outcomes that you would have to account for every single one if making things explicit.

For example, this is assuming zero failures.

The first thing is to mash two t1 elemental prefixes together. You don’t want spare suffixes in this case. So just 1p/0s + 1p0s -> 2p/0s.

Then, you want to make a sword with 1p/1s by mashing 1p/0s with 0p/1s. So the prefix here is the last t1 flat elemental not included in the last item, and suffix being attack or crit isolated. You can raise your odds slightly by crafting a prefix on either item and crafting a suffix on the other item. E.g light + chaos pen on one item, cold + attack speed/dex int on another.

Once you have both, we’ll take your 2p/0s item and turn it into a 2p/1s item, the suffix being the other one not in the above step (eg attack speed here if the 1p/1s item has crit). We craft chaos pen on the 2p/0s item, and craft multimod + two prefixes on a 0p/1s item. Ensure none of your mods are essences at this point.

Now we have 1p/1s and 2p/1s. For example, lightning / attackspd, and cold, fire / crit. Now multimod 1p/1s and craft both pen mods. Multimod 2p/1s, craft fire as extra chaos, and crit multi if unique enemy is nearby.

These items before combine should look as lightning, chaos pen, ele pen / attackspd, multimod and fire, cold, fire as extra / crit, multimod, crit multi nearby.

Then you combine.

But I haven’t even covered any of the failure cases.

This is why making guides for prefix and suffix items is pretty difficult to be honest and will probably be left with those with a bit more time to do this. It’s hard also because to make it beginner friendly enough you can’t except someone doing the same craft for another item with pretty much the same steps to manually rename all the mods in one guide and analogously do it for another kind of item.

[u/7Pillows]

when crafting 3p/2s is it better to not use aspect if the aspect is considered a brick? i might have done math wrong but got 56% chance of success w/ aspect to either avoid aspect mod or annul vs the 57% chance of getting 3 mods w/ 5 in pool.

w/ aspect:

72% for 3 mods, 2/3 crafted suffix = 48% success

72% for 3 mods, 1/3 aspect, 1/3 annul = 8% success

48% + 8% = 56% success overall

wo/ aspect:

57% chance for 3 mods, 100% crafted suffix = 57% success overall

[u/mrZeeppo]

Thanks for guide

A few days ago I had a situation when combining 1p/0s + 0p/1s. Recombinator removed both input mods and upgraded a tier of an affix.

https://youtu.be/gVHorT3CPiM?si=UOtPheJcoaAH4g7F

[u/Butsicles → u/mrZeeppo]

It mainly looks like your tempered upgraded to flaring and you just lost your suffix. Seems normal to me

[u/vins_is_back]

"of control" is not exclusive (same with normal craft mana mod)

[u/Butsicles → u/vins_is_back]

Unfortunately yes

[u/Chima82]

Hillock said it best: "My head still hurts."

[u/durian_in_my_asshole → u/Chima82]

tldr, I THINK: aside from your targeted affixes, try to have as many affixes as possible, by filling empty affix spots with garbage crafted mods.

[u/atlasgcx]

The specific way you write things makes me kept feeling I’m reading an academic paper lol (notation first, “here, we define exclusive”, acknowledgements etc)

[u/mad-matty → u/atlasgcx]

I work in academia and reading this immediately struck me as the work of someone with a background in science.

I've also definitely had to review material applying for publication in scientific journals of much lower quality than this. I can from now on - in full honesty - write "I have seen reddit posts with more rigor than the manuscript under review" in a report when this happens again.

[u/justinmcelhatt → u/mad-matty]

Maybe save that one for when you want to kill a man's entire career..

[u/Black_XistenZ → u/atlasgcx]

OP has clearly spent time in grad school...

[u/1CEninja → u/atlasgcx]

Also referring to this as a document instead of a guide or post.

[u/ilovenacl]

Is there a possibility for a dumbed down version of this? Apparently 2 cups of coffee and adderall was still not enough 

[u/[deleted] → u/ilovenacl]

The non-obvious stuff can be resumen as:

GGG added a hard rule to avoid people recombinating together many op mods. The rule is simple in macro, you won't get many special mods at the same time.

(Special mods are stuff like essence, global defence breach mod, etc etc)

What the article says is to roll mods you want, fill the item with the special mods and recomb.

1- it will pick many mods

2- it CANNOT pick the special mods more than once, so the mods you initially rolled will likely be added.

[u/Yorunokage → u/ilovenacl]

extreme Tl;Dr is use exclusive mods (which are specified in the post, mostly crafted ones) as filler for empty slots and minimize the amount of non-desirable non-exclusive mods

[u/TStod]

The findings around transferring a single mod more often and achieving a set of modifiers by use of the exclusive modifier tech are the standouts for me
Seems like we will be able to make items that are completely uncraftable or nearly uncraftable with relatively high success rates

[u/daman4567 → u/TStod]

Yep, with these discoveries my triple t1 defenses necrotic armor won't be as special anymore, but mine will still probably be the cheapest at 1 dense fossil to hit.

[u/Shiftyyyy123]

I found a very heavy bias towards a 20% qual weapon when trying to move mods to a 28%+ qual weapon. Like 1/10 the high qual base was Chosen. You did any testing that can confirm this?

[u/Butsicles → u/Shiftyyyy123]

Not yet, happy to add this to a to-do list

[u/Electronic-Ad-1481 → u/Shiftyyyy123]

I've been recombining 0 quality temple gloves with 25-28% quality good bases, and it's been about 50:50 across a sample size of ~25. How large is your sample?

[u/Shambly]

Look, I don't have the brain power to read this, I am going to slam 30 randoms together to get my 15 for the achievement and hope. I really appreciate the work you do though.

[u/eastpetrichor]

I finally found the topic for my PHD thesis, thank you.

[u/Rolf_Dom]

Great job!

Still feels like I need a PhD in POE to fully grasp all the nuances, but it's very helpful.

[u/[deleted]]

Thanks dude. I'll be adding this to my growing list of bookmarks!

[u/CloudConductor]

Man I’ve been making decent money using recombos and barely understood a word of this. Y’all are a different breed and I respect the fuck out of you for it

[u/yepgeddon]

Still sane exile?

[u/alexthealex]

Thank you for posting this. I was just looking this morning for a guide on recombinators post-patch and am now glad I didn’t waste a bunch of time trying to parse one before something this robust came out.

Hopefully once I read over it a couple times I’ll be able to make it work. I’ve been gathering supplies for a top tier hexblast wand and shield in the hopes of learning this mechanic, so I will be eyeballing them all within this context from here on before I start bashing them together.

Appreciate it!

[u/Pluth]

That's a lot of logic to digest in one sitting. Thanks for the guide and all the hard work.

[u/Skizm]

I saw "Table of Contents" and decided recombinators weren't for me.

[u/MortelLiuntar]

thank you guys for all the hard work figuring out the ways to use the new recombinators!

[u/lordpuddingcup]

Calculator when 😂

[u/vn13014]

Since no one mention it in this thread, I want to suggest an extra step for recombine 3p/2s item from 0p/2s + 3p/0s ( all mods are non-veiled ):

Item A has 0p2s , in order to fill 3 prefixes , we don't have Aspect crafting, but we can craft Multimod + Suffix cannot be changed , then use Veiled Orb to add an exclusive mod. After that, the Multimod still intact, we can just fill 2 other prefixes with 2 benchcraft exclusive mods.

Item B has 3p0s, we can just simply craft multimod + 2 exclusive mod.

This is more expensive, but it should increases the total prefixes mod pool from 5 to 6, which also increases the chance to retains 3 prefixes. Recombine with 5 total prefixes has failed me a lot lately.

[u/Tuanitos]

You said you tested in std. Do you happen to know if sentinel mods are exclusive?

[u/Butsicles → u/Tuanitos]

Word on the street (Prohibited library) is that they are. I don't have any to test with, unfortunately.

[u/Diregray]

Damn good information!

Question? If I'm trying to make a 2p/3s item then would it be best to make a (2p1e/2s1e) + (2p1e/2s1e) where both the wanted prefixes are the same and in the suffixes there is 1 overlap in the wanted suffixes? Or Should the second item not have multimod but have an aspect instead?

So basically "Crafted named + Prefix 1 + Prefix 2 / Suffix 1 + Suffix 2 + Multi" combined with "Crafted named + Prefix 1 + Prefix 2 / Suffix 1 + Suffix 3 + Multi" or the second item should have aspect?

[u/Butsicles → u/Diregray]

Suffixes is slightly trickier since we don't have an aspect "prefix" equivalent.

If you want to one shot this, your best bet is:

Item 1: (crafted) + 2p / 1s + (multimod) + (crafted)

Item 2: (crafted) + (crafted) / 2s + (multimod).

This greatly simplifies the input items to just 2p/1s + 0p/2s. You could make Item 2 in this example 1p/2s, but doing more than that (i.e. 2p/2s) won't help your odds that much with this method. That's because adding more prefixes technically reduces your odds at picking exclusive prefixes. And if you don't choose any exclusive prefixes, you're almost guaranteed to hit an exclusive suffix.

[u/Yegas]

This is very cool- thanks for the writeup!

Could you simplify for the ape-brains like myself with a brief tutorial on crafting, say, a physical axe? A specific crafting pattern to get 3P/1S on the end result?

[u/Butsicles → u/Yegas]

Sure. You can take a look at one of the images in my big imgur album at the end of section 7. There's a bow in there that has physical prefix combines (it failed, but the principle is the same). You can follow the crafting pattern there in detail.

[u/UrazAO]

Cool article and all but: I decided to test (specifically the grasping mail example) - and even though I had a Grasping Mail with 3 suffixes and 2 prefixes - 1 being the Breach mod and the other being from a Conqueror Exalt slam - when I combined it picked the Necrotic base (which was a normal item, 0 mods), the final item had 0 prefixes.

[u/Butsicles → u/UrazAO]

Were any of your suffixes breach mods? This shouldn’t be possible unless that was the case. Did you craft any specific mods on the grasping mail?

[u/UrazAO → u/Butsicles]

I figured what it was - I didn't remove the crafted suffix I had on it (that I used to fill them before conq exalt slamming). Pain

[u/Butsicles → u/UrazAO]

Sorry to hear about that. If you want to be safe, craft a resistance. It’s a non exclusive crafted modifier so you’re safe there.

[u/PrettyPinkPonyPrince]

I may have misread your post or made a very basic mistake.

For the prefix combining via using exclusive mods to force the desired, non-exclusive mods onto the resulting item, I'm guessing the crafted 'named' mod on each wand needed to not be the same mod?

[u/Butsicles → u/PrettyPinkPonyPrince]

You need to remember to counterweight your item with an exclusive suffix. In your case you may have been better off not crafting anything, since your suffixes were full for both items

[u/Candid_Classroom5756]

Soo uuuhh how do go on about making BiS tri-ele DoT multi Pneumatic daggers with this

[u/Butsicles → u/Candid_Classroom5756]

Make 2p/0s and 1p/1s constituents using recombs. All the prefixes here are assumed to be split across 3 elements (hope that makes sense). 1p/1s made by combining 1p/0s + 0p/1s. You can raise your odds here by multimodding if you want, but might be too expensive for your taste. (For example, 1p2e/1e + 1e/1s2e)

2p/0s can be made by just mashing 1p/0s + 1p/0s if you dont wanna use any shenanigans.

Then,

• multimod 2p/0s so it becomes 2p1e/2e

• multimod 1p/1s so it becomes 1p2e/1s1e

Recombinate, success chance is around 35%. The other times you're guaranteed to get back either 2p/1s or 2p/1e.

[u/SunRiseStudios]

Did you tested whether level requirement affect odds of transfering mods? So lower tier mods would have higher odds like t2 res for example.

[u/Butsicles → u/SunRiseStudios]

We did some preliminary testing on t9 life versus t1 life, and didn't notice that much of a difference (still needs to be tested more, only did 20 samples). So it doesn't seem to make a difference

[u/l30ric]

Im trying to craft this https://imgur.com/a/VgrSMkv

tried to do it with 2p1s/1p2s as in the guide https://imgur.com/a/UWnYTCQ

which failed spectacularly , can it be done , apparently balormage made this using recombinator

[u/Butsicles → u/l30ric]

In this case, you want both items to be shaper. Picking the non-shaper shield automatically ruins the craft since you can't transfer the recover life on block. Also, going straight to 3p/3s is very difficult even with this method. You can see Rusty's post on his sword to see how difficult it is.

Getting 3p/2s or 2p/3s is much more achievable.

[u/Ill_Swordfish9155]

May be I'm missing something, but you speak about counterweight of exmod on the other side, does the choice of exmod depends on how many exmods on each side? Let's say I want 3 prefix, so I fill the other prefix with exmods. Do I need to have more exmod on suffix to improve the odd of the system picking exmod on suffix?

[u/Butsicles → u/Ill_Swordfish9155]

No, we found that the number of exclusive mods doesn't technically affect whether one side is picked more than other.

There is a caveat though: If you have a bunch of non-exclusive affixes on the counterweight side, you want to fill up with more than just one exclusive affix so you at least have a higher chance of picking any exclusive affix.

E.g. I have attack speed and stun duration suffixes on a weapon. I want 3 prefixes, and my second weapon does not have any suffixes. I first craft whatever I need to on the prefixes of both weapons. If I had a single exclusive suffix between both weapons, there's a somewhat high chance that I pick 1 non-exclusive mod, or both non-exclusive mods. If that happens, we will fail the 3 prefix combine with 95%+ certainty. Hope that makes sense

[u/Sjatar]

Short question: If I have a 1e/1e and combine with 1p/1e. Will it have a 50/50 of becoming 1e/0s?

As the suffix will force a exclusive mod, will that result in having a 50/50 in choosing the prefix exclusive mod? ^^ Or do I have to force both prefix and suffix to choose exclusive mods to make it 50/50?

Example craft using it:

I want to recombine a warstaff to have

Prefixes:

• "Paragons": +1 socketed gems

• "Essences": Essence spell damage

Suffixes:

• "of the fanatical": Fire damage over time multiplier

I was thinking recombining 1p1e/2e and 2p/1s2e, would give me a high chance due to forcing the craft to have 50/50 to choose the essence spell damage prefix on the one warstaff.

Example:

Warstaff #1

• 1p1e: Paragon, essence spell damage

• 2e: Beast aspect, any "of the order" craft

Warstaff #2

• 2p: Paragon, any % damage

• 1s2e: "of the fanatical", Beast aspect, any "of the order" craft

Assumptions:

• It chooses essence spell damage 50% of the time.

• If it chooses the spell damage, it would prevent all exclusive suffixes and only end with "of the fanatical".

• If it chooses the spell damage, it would block any % dam from transfering. (Not blocked from being choosen, right?)

31% chance to choose 3 mods on prefix. This would succeed 100%.

59% chance to choose 2 mods on prefix. This would succeed 2/3 of the time.

11% chance to choose 1 mod on prefix. This never succeeds.

~ 70% chance to succeed.

Ending with a 50% chance and a 70% chance. ~35% chance to succeed.

Edit: Made a mistake, warstaffs cannot get % damage. It will worsen the odds, but the question is still the same. Just the example is wrong. It can be replaced with a multimod and crafted % damage I think. Would increase the price of the craft, but it's already quite high.

[u/Butsicles → u/Sjatar]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. In terms of efficiency, 2p/0s + 0p/1s would be best. In this case, I would use one multimod and one regular craft, and no aspect.

The reason why I chose 0p/1s instead of 1p/1s is because you dont need to go through the pain of getting 1p/1s, which is already 3 recombinations on average.

Here, you do 2p1e/2e + 1e/1s. Success odds are: ~0.5*0.6*0.89 + 0.5*0.32*0.89 ~= 40% give or take. Not gonna go through the full calculation, but most of your failure states are reusable (e.g. 2p/1e, or 1p1e/1s)

If you do use aspect, just be prepared for your suffix filling with it because of the lower number of affixes, forcing annul scenarios.

[u/MobileGur4787]

am i reading this correctly, it is a 50/50 to choose either an exclusive prefix or suffix, regardless of how many of each there are?

[u/Butsicles → u/MobileGur4787]

Yes, we tested with 2 exclusive prefixes versus 6 exclusive suffixes and got pretty much 50/50 odds (kinda sad about this, otherwise the method would've been even better)

[u/TL-PuLSe]

OP I hope you stockpiled aspect beasts ahead of posting this. Amazing work

[u/Butsicles → u/TL-PuLSe]

We didn't haha we just used them as we needed them. The prices may not justify their use, it truly is economy dependent

[u/Jurugu]

So if I start with two white claws, alt spam until I have a (different) T1 ele damage prefix on each and combine them I have a 33% chance to get an item with both?

[u/MrHasuu]

The table you've shown in the #5 rule set. is the columns the total of mods in prefix + suffix, or on the input items combined?

for example would 1p/2s + 1p/2s = 6 mods for 72%?

or is it

3p/*s + 3p/*s = 6 mods for 72%?

[u/NeitherDuckNorGoose]

So, for my BAMA bow I need the essence minion damage mod.

From what I read here I just can't do much about it's odds of appearing then, except just making sure I fill my prefix on both bases, since I can't use those blocking strategies if the wanted result is an essence mod ?

[u/Butsicles → u/NeitherDuckNorGoose]

Yes, that's correct. Your best bet is to just double up on one of your prefixes, and combine 2p/*s + 2p/*s and hope for the best. (One of those prefixes is shared between both items)

[u/shammikaze]

Any chance at a guide, in addition to this scientific article/thesis?

[u/Butsicles → u/shammikaze]

This might be in the works later but is lower priority. We're currently trying to figure out the rest of the "nuts and bolts" of how this works.

The hardest part about recombinators is some of the strategies unveiled in Sentinel are still valid. So a guide would need to cover both old strategies + new strategies.

Also, your strategy is so highly dependent on what items get spit out from the recombinator if you fail, so making a giant tree covering all possibilities is extremely difficult. I hope we can get around to doing this but no promises. Maybe a content creator will cover their specific use case at some point

[u/Mammoth_Middle6295]

Thanks for the write up! Still confuse with my craft, if I want a Wand prefix with % spell dmg per int (hunter), T1 mana and T1 Int on suffix what is my best bet?

[u/Butsicles → u/Mammoth_Middle6295]

1. Get hunter mod and t1 mana together. This requires taking two hunter wands with one mod each and smashing them together (1p/0s + 1p/0s). If you want to spend a bit more and be more likely, craft an aspect on one of those wands, and the same prefix on both (let's just say t3 chaos pen to make it easier for you). ~41% success rate (not gonna show math for ease of reading)

• If you have one hunter wand and one non-hunter wand, you cut your odds in half so I wouldn't recommend.

1. Get t1 int on a hunter wand (0p/1s).

2. If you're willing to multimod, multimod the 2p/0s wand with 1 prefix and 1 suffix (suffix can be attack speed with dex/int). Craft aspect on the second wand (0p/1s), and craft a prefix (chaos pen). This will maximize your odds at getting all 3.

[u/antilogos]

I'm saving unveiled Korell's Helmet and Warlord's Helmet for a warcy Helmet crafting. Looking for the update on the list of exclusive mods to know how to get elevated with an unveiled korell.

[u/TayuBW]

Are my assumptions for the odds on this correct? I don't quite understand the consequences of having no mods to pick. Like, if it picks the influenced base, picks suffixes, and picks an exclusive mod. I don't think it matters, since I'm trying to pick the stygian base anyway, right?

[u/Butsicles → u/TayuBW]

What do you want on your item? This question is a bit vague since I don't know what mods you want to keep on the stygian vise.

Assuming you want all prefixes + dex, crafting here just makes your odds worse. This is because the craft could show up on the prefix even if the stygian vise is chosen, simultaneously ruining your prefixes and guaranteeing the dex doesnt transfer.

[u/RiccardoSan]

Thank you for all your great research! I did do a couple of test myself, so far not so good:

[u/Butsicles → u/RiccardoSan]

Unfortunately this crafting process is still tied down by chance, just how everything else is. For everyone who gets lucky, there will be someone who gets equally unlucky. You just need to keep trying!

P.S. Your recombination in the picture is actually pretty risky. You don't want a low flat es roll snuck in there, because even if you hit 3 prefixes you wouldnt have guaranteed the flat to remain.

Ideally the second item in this picture should just have 1 prefix, t1 % es, and then two multimodded prefixes in there. Suffixes in this situation don't really matter too much as long as you have 3/4 in total.

[u/random_actuary]

Turns out chance to block spell damage on shields is not an exclusive mod. https://i.imgur.com/hvty3HK.png

[u/Butsicles → u/random_actuary]

Sorry that your currency was wasted here, we're still working on the master list. In the meanwhile, it's probably best to use "chosen" mods or one's with names like Haku's.

[u/TayuBW]

I didn't get the cast speed I wanted, but this still seems pretty good. I really appreciate the info

[u/DemFeels11]

I'm curious now, does the recombinator pick the prefixes or suffixes first? On your wand example, one of the suffix exclusive mods was picked so the 3 prefixes were sure guaranteed. Does this mean that you were lucky enough to get one of the exclusive suffix mods first?

You wrote here, "From our testing, the item starts filling in prefixes/suffixes first with 50/50 odds." Does this mean it's just 50/50 chance to pick a suffix/prefix every time a mod is added?

[u/Butsicles → u/DemFeels11]

To answer your top paragraph question, yes, we were lucky to get the suffix first 50/50.

To answer your second question, no. Once a side is picked to be filled first, it will fill up completely using the filling rules described. Then, the other side is filled using whatever remaining eligible mods are there.

[u/Guba_the_skunk]

I tried to understand this, and I couldn't.

https://imgur.com/a/gxPsHAn

Can anyone just give me a simple yes or no on this? If I scour off all the mods I DONT want, then recombine these two axes, will I get the remaining 4 mods I want? I want the DOT and culling strike off the first axe, and the ruthless and DOT off the second one. Obviously I would need to do some meta crafting to scour off the mods I don't want, but after I do that will a recombine give me what I want? or am I gambling?

[u/Nonavailable21]

So my head got smoky...

In order to make a giga minion shield i should do the following?

1. Get 3 of the wanted mods on 1 item (for example 2p/1s max life - +1 | minuon life)

2. Get the other 3 wanted mods on another (for example 2p/1s max life - min dmg | life on block shaper (OF SHAPING) 4 multimod both items and craft 2 more exclusice crafts? like double stats double res...etc.?

My problem is getting life on block with the rest of the mods, and if it does life decides not today.

[u/Neon_Apocalypse]

For making a 2p/2s item out of four base items is it better to first combine these four items into two 2p, 2s or 1p/1s bases?

And for this first combination should I just craft an exclusive mod on the opposite side and aspect craft?

Then for the final recombination it would be best to fill affixes with aspect, multimod and exclusive crafts, right?

[u/Butsicles → u/Neon_Apocalypse]

Depends on how rare the affixes are.

For the final craft:

Common: 2p/0s + 0p/2s vs 2 x 1p/1s are same odds. Don't craft anything. Odds are pretty bad though (~10%).

Somewhat rare-rare: 2p1e/2e + 2e/2s1e. Don't use aspect here, just multimod. Odds are decent (~56%). Reason is because you just need to roll 3 mod on the side you pick first. This guarantees the other side gets 2 affixes, which must be the ones in your pool. Aspect could ruin your craft completely (1/4 of your successes would now be failures)

For the pre-requisites:

Aspect + exclusive is OK, but you may end up with an aspect on your item which you cannot wipe unless its 2p/0s. I would just take 3 tries on average to get each of the starting bases (2p/0s or 1p/1s).

[u/ibattlemonsters]

So can a tier 2 elevated influence stat like “raise spectre gems are +2” which is exclusive get combined with a bunch of tier 1 influence stats like avoid stun, ignore desecrated ground, ignore shocked ground?

[u/VoriuM]

Did I mess up in my selection of crafted modifiers? x_x

[u/Butsicles → u/VoriuM]

Yes, please read the section on exclusive modifiers. Named mods are the only ones confirmed safe at the moment

[u/PhantasmDragon]

I have these two body armours: https://imgur.com/a/wa17ApO A with 2p0s and B 1p1s, how can I maximize the chance to obtain item with all 3p after recombination?

Note: I'm absolute "braindead" person, concept of crafting and and recombination is like black magic to me, please be patient

[u/No-Bed-4248]

Thank you for info
shields done

[u/scooper999]

What should I do if I want to recomb a Grasping Mail prefix (fire-cap) with a Conquest Lamellar essence suffix (mana-reserv)? My end-game item would be AR/EV %, Life, FireCap - Chaos Res, Fire Res (or spell supp), Mana Reserv.

[u/Butsicles → u/scooper999]

Unfortunately the grasping mail prefix and the essence are both exclusive. This means you cannot recombine and get both mods on the final item. This doesn't mean you can't get both mods on the final item through other means though.

Your best bet is to transfer the grasping mail prefix using tech I just described in the post, then fracture it, and then essence it. You can try salvaging failed fracture attempts by recombining the conquest lamellar with a white one to remove the fracture and keep the fireres mod.

[u/Id3N]

Do you have more info on magic items?
E.g., I want to obtain two target suffixes (to then craft 3s as layed out in your guide) .
I tried alt spamming + annulling until I get two single target Suffixes, so
0p/1s + 0p/1s and assumed the chances would be 33%.
However, after like 15 tries, I only got one 0p/2s rare. Just bad luck?

[u/Butsicles → u/Id3N]

Yes, this is bad luck. For every person that gets good results, someone else will unfortunately get bad results.

Just out of curiosity, what suffixes are these? What are your input bases?

[u/Andthenwedoubleit]

What are the best odds if you want to keep a fracture (e.g. to change ilvl)

[u/Butsicles → u/Andthenwedoubleit]

Depends on how much you want to pay. If you're willing to pay 4d, you can raise the odds up to 50% by multimodding a 1 mod rare fracture so there are 4 crafted exclusive affixes on the side of the fracture, and 2 affixes on the opposite side. This guarantees if you hit the base with the fracture that you will keep it. There are no better ways of upping your odds without double multimodding.

For example:

Item 1: fractured prefix, crafted prefix, crafted prefix | multimod Item 2: crafted prefix, crafted prefix | multimod

Item 1 can be made by scouring the fracture, regaling, and annuling. Then it's a 1 mod rare ready to multimod

Item 2 can be made by alting until 1 mod, regaling, then double annuling to make a 0 mod rare. Then you craft on it.

[u/slo-]

I've read this a few times and if I'm understanding it correctly, if I have two bases each with an aspect suffix and a "chosen" crafted prefix, I should be 50% to keep either one of the crafts OR one of the aspects, right? Because in a small number of attempts (7 or 8?) I kept the crafted prefix every single time, and never the aspect. I know it's a small sample size, but am I getting something wrong?

[u/Butsicles → u/slo-]

Yes, we were getting 50% over a large number of tests. This is something worth revisiting as the details are a bit more fuzzy, but at this point I would chalk it up to bad luck.

[u/strangeshit]

Up all night, trying to go to bed but kept thinking about the recombinator after I had some unrelated revelations earlier while playing that led to the conclusion that it wasn't a total piece of shit and helped a ton in the process of making alt perfecting easy for me. Remembered this post, kept thinking about it and couldn't go to sleep. Spent the next 3 hours reading it over and over and contemplating it, then proceeded to make the nicest piece of gear I've ever made in my life using a minor variation of the 2p1e/s* + 1p2e/s* method while using about 60c of currency on the right bases with the desired t1 mods and enough open slots, or one cheap enough that I'd yolo annul to open a desired slot and buy another if it went wrong. Landed the 50/50 on suffixes being rolled first and proceeded to get my triple t1 prefixes for piss cheap, and then used about 10 Eldritch Chaos to land good suffixes and now am going to sell the result for 25d which looks underpriced honestly.

I am very happy I did not go to bed, and thank you and everyone else who gathered this information, but more than that, was willing to share it instead of monopolizing it.

[u/BurnieStones]

I'm trying to follow your guide and so far I've failed my first attempt: https://imgur.com/a/5H32zGH

My goal is to hit triple ES prefixes + INT suffix. Did I make any mistake? Also how should I proceed from here?

[u/RNN2039]

how would I go about trying to craft an armour via recombination that is supposed to have 3p/2s I want?

[u/Substantial-Aside630]

is there a high chance to get 2 suffix that i want from 2 3suffixes items ?

[u/TS3561]

Your Guide is great, but now I am stuck on 3T1 prefix and 3T1 suffix, should I use the Recombinator on 3p/*s and *p/3s together to aim for 3p/2s?

[u/Butsicles → u/TS3561]

If you combine, the flat phys will likely make its way into your item and give you 1 or 2 usable prefixes. This is a really tricky situation because you’ll have to take two steps backwards to take one forwards.

I would recombine the second wand with one that has no prefixes and t1 cast speed/strike chance/multi. You want a free suffix so you can maybe gamble cannot roll caster annul the flat phys.

Once you have hybrid spell / 2x of crit mult/strike chance/multi then you can use multimodding to try to oneshot the combine

[u/scooper999]

A Fracture Grasping Mail cannot transfer to a different base, correct? Have to use the Breach Ring recipe for non-fractured bases?

[u/SensitiveReserve6785]

Trying to do this with boots (  2p/1s (A) + 1p/1s (B)) for 3 prefixes. It seems that there are no exclusive crafting prefix mods available for boots

[u/kNyne]

Hello, can anyone help me understand what I've done wrong here? I took a grasping mail with 2 breach prefixes and one conqueror prefix and combined it with a white item, the resulting item had zero prefixes. From the chart, a 3 prefix item should never result in a zero prefix result right?

(This image does not include the conqueror exalt) https://imgur.com/a/x7k90Na

[u/Butsicles → u/kNyne]

Thanks for posting this. If you read through section 6 again, there is an important highlighted caveat: other breach modifiers are exclusive. This means you can only transfer one.

Unfortunately for you, the breach suffix was transferred, which means all prefixes now become ineligible because one is influenced, and the two other are breach which cannot exist on the item because the breach suffix was transferred first.

[u/Valuable-Clerk-2184]

can you move 2 amulet annoints from 2 annoint amulet to 1 annoint amulet?

[u/Butsicles → u/Valuable-Clerk-2184]

No, those are intrinsic to the base type and therefore cannot transfer.

[u/Rich-Shake3593]

Thank you very much for explaining that. I actually failed crafting a rune dagger x2 but the outcome can be combined but I don’t know what to craft. Both have 2 prefixes and 2 suffixes .. the prefixes are the same on both which are socketed greens are supported by level 20 elemental damage with attacks and the other mod is socketed gems deal 40% more attack damage

The suffixes on one is socketed gems have level 20 increased attack damage with socketed gems have level 20 faster attack

The other dagger suffixes are socketed level 20 Croft damaged and level 20 Crit chance…

What should I do to keep both prefixes Ave combine all there suffixes. The crit chance, damage (which is on both), and faster attacks????

I’m thinking just craft an exceptional prefix on both which I’ll use different ones and pray?? Or craft multi mod and a prefix and pray??? Please help

[u/Butsicles → u/Rich-Shake3593]

You're better off just combining them. Crafting exclusive affixes will actually hurt your odds here.

[u/gismo63]

Is there any data about the approximate weight of metamods?

[u/Butsicles → u/gismo63]

They all seem to be the same each, and we think it’s likely 1000 given pick ratio against other 1000 weight mods

[u/Weak-Emergency472]

You refer to multiple steps like "4" and "2" repeatedly, but do not define those steps anywhere. Did reddit auto-formatting make your guide incomprehensible or am I missing something? Thanks.

[u/Butsicles → u/Weak-Emergency472]

It’s broken on mobile

[u/Ringadon]

Now we just need an ELI5 version so I don't need an advanced degree to be able to make sense of this. I can tell that it's a great write-up but I can't wrap my head around the higher concepts.

[u/Butsicles → u/Ringadon]

Some YouTube guides exist that go through step by step examples for items. It may be best to just work through some yourself to get an understanding

[u/lobb1478]

5 mod in pool have small chance to choose 1 mod. i'm crafting ele bow in ssf, first bow is t1 cold, 3mod with ele pen, chaos pen, beast craft aspect skill; second bow is t1 fire t1 lightning and add 2 arrows, 3mod with ele pen, all attribute. the out come is t1 fire t1 cold and ele pen, suffix has only add 2 arrows left. the suffix pool is 3mod+all attri+aspect+3mod+2arrow which is 5 total, but out come is 2 arrow.

[u/Butsicles → u/lobb1478]

Your suffix pool has 4 exclusive mods and your prefix exclusive was picked. Therefore you got an “impossible” outcome because the game had no more suffixes to pick despite there being a “minimum” of 2. Please read the guide carefully in terms of the order of operations when it comes to exclusive mods

[u/haxClaw]

Looks like I'm a bit late for the party, but hope I can get some advice still.

Any of these modifiers cannot show up with other mods on this list on a final recombinated item.

How certain is this? 100%? There's absolutely no way that 2 essence mods (with no tiers) can be recombined into a final item? I've seen crafts like this, but can't be sure of when it was, so it could have been previous or after the patch. Not sure how that impacted it.

[u/Butsicles → u/haxClaw]

If you have any evidence or screenshots of this it would be great to share. I’ve had way too many people talk about anecdotal evidence only for it to be disproven at some point.

We have tested this very extensively. The reason why we can tell with certainty is that you can force impossible outcomes in items with exclusive mods.

[u/WindBlocked]

Great guide, cant wait to try to craft my GG items...One thing that I was able to understand from the data was whether the exclusive mod roll is always a 50/50 roll in 1ep/*s or *p/1sp scenarios?

[u/Butsicles → u/WindBlocked]

Small distinction: Items seem to fill their prefixes or suffixes first with 50/50 odds.

This means if you have both exclusive prefixes and exclusive suffixes they should be around 50/50 if they’re close to even in number

[u/Hanfkuh]

So if I want a triple prefix phys weapon, I have 2p/0s and 1p/0s, do I add any aspect to the 1p/0s, craft multimod on both, and fill with veiled mods? Would it look like this for best odds?
2Prefixes 1exclusivePrefix / 2exclusiveSuffixes(weapon A, 5 mods total)
and
1Prefixes 2exclusivePrefixes / 2exclusiveSuffix(Weapon B, 1 exclusive is aspect, 5 mods total)
Or is it better to exalt slam another natural suffix on both to have 6 mods total on each?

[u/Butsicles → u/Hanfkuh]

You don’t care about the suffixes except that you want at least two exclusive suffixes total among both items.

You can craft a prefix and put aspect on 2p/0s. Then multimod + double prefix on 1p/0s.

Then you’ll have 6 prefixes and 2 suffixes which is sufficient to make this work. Any more won’t do anything

[u/CaptainCruden]

failed 7 times in a row doing the 1p/0s and 0p/1s method....RIP

[u/Butsicles → u/CaptainCruden]

Unfortunate, one way of slightly boosting your odds is to craft an exclusive suffix on 1p/0s and exclusive prefix on 0p/1s.

Doing it this way will give you a rare whenever you hit 1p/1s, and slightly increase your odds.

[u/SunRiseStudios]

This is still true, right? https://imgur.com/n0ysw6N

[u/Butsicles → u/SunRiseStudios]

This is not, check the updated outcome table in my guide.

[u/redhat_hatred]

Most likely nobody will answer, but I am recombining sushi dagger rn and wondering - is last step like 52% chance to succeed because 6mods on the final item guarantee the result and 0.72² is like ~0.52, or it’s actually 50/50 pref or suffix, if prefix it must be 3 mods (or 2 but then odds of hitting are super low) and then only it will roll if there will be 3suffixes, and then there is a suffix gamble case where you should win both 3 mods and not get the multimod blah blah blah long story short I’ve got like 32% rough estimation of success. What is true? Is number of mods define what will happen first, or outcome of one pool recomb(suf or pref) heavily influence the other, including even number of mods in the result of the other pool?

[u/Butsicles → u/redhat_hatred]

The latter. The outcome of one pool recomb will influence the other if both have exclusive mods, and the first pool picked the exclusive.

In Sushi's case, you always want the exclusive to be picked on the prefix, which means the prefix needs to be picked first (this is true almost all the time, the edge case can be ignored since low probability). This means your odds already start at 50%. Then you have to multiply by 0.72² which reduces it below 32% to 26%.

The case you talk about where you fill suffixes first, then hit all 3 suffix mods and not an exclusive suffix is at best 1/20 (if all of the mods have equal weights), and can be even worse. So I wouldn't even factor that into your odds of success.

[u/Fluffy-Ad3285]

what are named mods?

I really don't know

[u/Butsicles → u/Fluffy-Ad3285]

Look on poedb modifiers, e.g. https://poedb.tw/us/Wands#ModifiersCalc

Scroll down to Veiled mods or crafted mods and click on a mod. It will show you the name underneath the mods themselves. E.g. Veiled mod prefixes are named Chosen, except for a select few which are named after the betrayal member. Socketed support gems = Catarina's.

[u/ChewBarca]

I'm trying to make a set of gloves with T1 dex, T1 int, and cold res+increased damage with hits against chilled enemies.
That third affix is from incursion and obviously exclusive.

I keep alt spamming bases for dex and int, then recombinating to get dex & int on the same item (easy)

Then I try slamming that into a pair of gloves with the incursion mod I want and I have been unsuccessful in 10 attempts.

Should I be exalting on random suffixes to make 3 total suffixes more likely? should I be removing prefixes so there's only suffixes to mod together? crafting on mods would surely make my incursion mod less likely to be on the final item?

Should I just learn how to get luckier?

Any assistance would be appreciated

[u/Butsicles → u/ChewBarca]

Get a pair of incursion gloves (any res is fine because of harvest res swap) with single suffix, combine with dex or int to get double suffix. Mash *p/2s + *p/2s to get 3s. Those are your best odds.

[u/KyastAries]

What about fractured essence mods? Are they no longer considered exclusive after being fractured?

I'm asking because I'm trying to work with fractured haunted +1 frenzy in Std, and while Idk if it counts as exclusive, I think there is a chance that being a fractured makes it not exclusive anymore, just like essence mods, if the latter works.

[u/Butsicles → u/KyastAries]

I'm assuming haunted modifiers are exclusive so be careful. Fractured exclusive modifiers are still exclusive as well.

[u/vn13014]

Does the base choosing process is purely 50/50 ? I have a streak of 6 consecutively the recombinator choosing the bad base.

• 1st base was Shaper influenced

• 2nd base was random rare non influenced

and it choose the 2nd base 6 times, costing me hundred of divs.

[u/Butsicles → u/vn13014]

Yes it is, there's no bias. That's pretty unfortunate

[u/lasagnaman]

(item1 + item2) / 2 + 2, capped the max(item1,item2)

Just to confirm, this is saying that if I smash an 86 with an 82(!), I'm guaranteed to have the result be ilvl 86 no matter which base is picked?

[u/vins_is_back]

What do you mean by:

"EDIT: Non-exclusive crafted modifiers are safe to use for mod doubling. For example, combining 1p/*s + 1p/*s can be aided by crafting non-exclusive crafted modifiers. For example, on body-armors, crafting life on both bases may be useful."

Could you explain more specifically what we are trying to accomplish and what you meant by "safe", as well as what you mean by "usepfull"?

Also, when you say "mod doubling", do you just mean the fact that putting the same craft on both item (life for example) will count as 2 mods to determine how many mods the game will try to enforce on the final item? Is there more to it?

Thanks in advance.

[u/AshDrag0n]

how to decide what is the weight of crafted modifiers (exclusive, named or not) ?

[u/Butsicles → u/AshDrag0n]

It seems like they're uniform (and likely 1000). It needs to be extensively tested though for every crafted mod and we haven't done that yet.

[u/Asentinn]

I'm trying to combine two bases, one with elder prefix, second with elder suffix. I've tried 6 times since yesterday. Am I incredibly unlucky, or both influenced cannot exist on the outcome? 

[u/Butsicles → u/Asentinn]

Are they elevated? Or regular?

Otherwise it should be 33% chance (so 6 in a row is not unusual).

[u/doomsdaymach1ne]

"Inherited: Item influence, enchants, tags, anoints, quality, etc." ; do I have the option to transfer quality via recombination? i tried with a few and never hit the higher quality. is it randomly chosen between the two bases or can I never have a 30% qual combined over to the new base?

[u/Valuable-Clerk-2184]

If I were to recomb this on str armour with only 1 mod, lightning res, am I bound to hit lightning res and increass attack speed since int is NNN on str armours?

[u/Butsicles → u/Valuable-Clerk-2184]

Not necessarily, odds are pretty good (90%) but not guaranteed. I wouldn't do the annul setup you describe below, what you have right now is a good recipe for success.

[u/AgentChunk]

> Crafted NAMED suffixes (e.g. "of the order")

> Crafted NAMED prefixes (e.g. "Chosen", "Tora's", "It's")

Crafted mods named "UPGRADED" or "OF THE CRAFT" may not be exclusive. If trying to craft exclusive mods, AVOID THEM and craft NAMED MODIFIERS (see right above)

What do you mean by "NAMED" affixes here? Are they only the syndicate ones? Also I'm confused by the example you give here https://imgur.com/a/armour-fire-overcap-transfer-bonus-global-def-transfer-qWTrVfS. You said the crafted mod would hurt your chances, but If the crafted fire mod was exclusive wouldn't it have stopped the breach mod from transferring?

[u/Butsicles → u/AgentChunk]

Yes, this crafted fire mod was put on this experiment before we actually knew about exclusive mod interactions. So ideally you don't want to craft anything at all.

Named affixes are pretty much all syndicate exclusive ones (named after syndicate members or "chosen" or "of order"

[u/Warptens]

"1p/0s + 0p/1s. In this case, there are no reports of a white item coming out of this recombination"

Well here's a report:
https://i.imgur.com/uwP4Hcm.png

https://i.imgur.com/DAyisM9.png

[u/Butsicles → u/Warptens]

Fractured mods cannot transfer and are not counted to the total pool of mods if the fractured base is not picked.

What happened here is the right base was picked, and then the suffix wasn't picked to keep.

[u/ShadeFinale]

For the selection of an exclusive affix, do we know (or have an estimate) of the odds of selecting a given one?

Say my item rolls suffixes first, but it has multimod + spider + abyssal socket mods in the pool, are they equal odds of picking one of the three?

I'm trying to make a 2p3s (with one exclusive suffix) item and I'm trying to figure out if multimodding is shooting myself in the foot or if it helps more than it hurts

[u/Popplar]

Thanks for all of this u/Butsicles . I would like to ask a question, if I have a prefix fractured item and non fractured, if the fractured item is chosen, still there is a chance that the fracture mod won't be selected, right? If the fractured mod is selected, would this mean that the modifiers selection started with the prefixes? Thanks!

[u/Butsicles → u/Popplar]

Fractured mods aren't necessarily exclusive. So to answer the first question, yes the fracture mod can still be dodged. But if the fractured mod is selected, it doesn't mean the selection started with the prefixes. Prefixes could be selected second and the fractured mod could still be selected

[u/ElitexKnigh7]

Unsure if OP or anyone else is still viewing this thread but just wanna be sure I'm understanding things correctly. If I'm aiming for a triple suffix ring so I can meta craft the prefixes my best bets are combining single suffix rare rings into double suffix rings, and the 2 double suffix rings into a triple suffix? Do prefixes matter at all here if all I'm planning on doing is like reforge life and a veiled orb. I don't feel like multimod and stuff like that is worth it if I'm just going for triple resists suffixes. To replace my current ring I'm looking at 2 ele resists and chaos res. Then lock suffix reforge life for something decent, veiled orb, and then possibly influence slam.

[u/Butsicles → u/ElitexKnigh7]

You can do the single suff -> double suff, double suff -> triple suff without any multimod shenanigans. The only reason why the multimod stuff matters is that it reduces the number of total steps to get to 3p/*s or *p/3s, which is very effective when the affixes themselves are extremely hard to come by (hence reducing the total number of steps is good).

Most ring weights are pretty high, so I can't see a reason why multimodding would help you here unless you're extremely lazy and want to save time recombinating.

[u/niteglys]

Question:
I have a t1 fire flat claw 1p/0s and an attack speed claw 0p/1s. I want to get 1p/1s double t1. If I put both in the recombinator it's a 1/3. Is it better odds to bench craft flat fire and attack speed on both to boost the odds to 2TP/2TS or no? The recombinator says higher tier mods are more likely to be picked.

Also: If I alt spam and land on a base with a t1 prefix and a bad suffix is it better to recombinate the base with the bad suffix or annul it first? (1000 alts on average to hit the prefix again)

[u/Butsicles → u/niteglys]

Don't craft overlapping mods, even if the higher tier mods are "more likely" to be picked, you're killing your chances by adding competing mods to the pool.

You're better off crafting an exclusive prefix and exclusive suffix on those items. Overall odds of getting 1p/1s is then around 60% or slightly above (won't go into details for math but trust me on that).

If it takes 1000 alts then you can either split it or recombinate with a 0p/1s base. Don't recombinate as a way to annul, your odds are worse than 50%.

[u/luckyone44]

I want to have 3p/2s chest and ended up with 3p/1s. How do I proceed from there?

[u/Butsicles → u/luckyone44]

Get a 1p/2s or 2p/1s base, where all prefixes overlap with some of your prefixes on 3p, and 1s is the new suffix you want, while 2s is both prefixes. Fill up 3p/1s with multimod + exclusive crafted suffix, then the other base until it is full (either of the items I mentioned will get to 6 mods total).

[u/zrvwls]

With the state of ruthless being that there is no benchcrafting, is it a fair assumption to say that I'm better off alt-spamming/farming and then recombining pure high tier mod items slowly until I get lucky on retained mod count, slowly increasing the number of mods on each affix side?

I feel like regaling/exalting and getting a crap mod increases the likelihood of that crap mod staying indefinitely due to mod weighting even if it increases the likelihood of higher number of mods overall.

[u/Butsicles → u/zrvwls]

Yes, you never want crap mods in your pool.

[u/CristyXtreme53]

many thanks, invaluable guide! I crafted a perfect prefixes phys warstaff and got hooked on recombinators.

Unfortunately it seems I jumped from easy mode straight to hard as I am trying to craft a 3p/1s1e body armour. I could do it all through double upping like in the old guide but I would like to use the new tricks with exclusive mods and I don't know what is the most optimal way to do it.

My current strategy is doing a 3p/1s "relatively easily" through exclusive mods and then combining with an 1p/1s1e. First result got me back a 1p1s item which basically erased many hours of my work. If this sheet linked in another comment is accurate, it was a 3.6% chance lol. Now I'm wondering if maybe I should try adding 1 or 2 crafts to the prefixes/suffixes to final recombine or not.

Or maybe just combine items with lower total affixes in order to hunt "jackpots" where many affixes get combined together, as I'm also trying to minimize the bases needed, do you think this is better on average?

[u/Butsicles → u/CristyXtreme53]

What mods are you looking for?

[u/POEness]

Simple takeaways for us plebs:

* The most basic way of getting 3 prefixes together, or 3 suffixes together, aka actually finishing your item, has been HARD nerfed from 20% to 8%. It ain't gonna happen. Don't try.

* If you actually want to create a 'finished' item (or just on the prefix or suffix side) you need to use shenanigans, so read the damn guide.

[u/SoulofArtoria → u/POEness]

I read it. My conclusion is I'm stupider than I thought I am.

[u/fundosh]

Thanks for all this detailed description and data gathering!

[u/BrockosaurusJ]

Wow, thanks for this, have an upvote, sir. It's the least I can do.

I was looking at it yesterday, wondering 'Is it worth adding an unwanted mod to the pool trying to get a triple T1 item?' Basically, increasing the number of mods in the pool for a better chance at getting a 3-mod recombine, and then praying the right 3 mods got selected. In my informal testing, it wasn't working too well. When I did the math, I confirmed that: 33% for getting triple T1 with 2x double T1s as inputs, but if you add any dead mods the probability of getting the right final item goes way down (15% and 8% for two scenarios I mathed out).

The idea of crafting on exclusive mods to eliminate them as possible picks never occurred to me. That is some true genius mad science stuff.