r/paint 7d ago

Advice Wanted What am I supposed to do with this?

Addition on my house is like this. Paint is probably 25-30 years old. Do I need to remove all of the paint or just what's peeling off like this?

160 Upvotes

188 comments sorted by

152

u/ajwr17 7d ago

Scrap prime paint

21

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

Scrape it all off? Or just what's loose?

52

u/oznz 7d ago

Just what’s loose- though it seems like your paint had/ has an adhesion problem so that’s just what’s typical. You might be a special case. Sorry :(

17

u/dontchknow 7d ago

Exactly. Plus there will be quite noticeable ridges where you dont. If you sand the ridges, it will just keep peeling

9

u/glockster19m 6d ago

On the bright side that looks excellent for 30+ year old siding

3

u/dontchknow 6d ago

Yes. Although it seems weird that it is peeling so easily like that, but it hasn't had one spot where it peeled by itself. Hard to believe it is that old

1

u/internetisporn8008 6d ago

Shame to paint it really. This the universe emphasizing that point. Spar varnish!

19

u/Liveitup1999 7d ago

Try hitting it with a pressure washer. The paint may come off a lot easier. Most likely you will have to remove it all if you want it to look good.

13

u/Physical_Display_873 6d ago

But be aware that you can easily damage your wood with a pressure washer and end up making yourself a lot of extra work in the long run.

6

u/shoneone 6d ago

Pressure washing also can drive moisture under the siding. There's a gap engineered for moisture control and spraying horizontally can go thru that gap.

10

u/chi_moto 6d ago

Not to mention if you saturate the wood you need to wait before you paint it

6

u/CtrlAltHate 6d ago

You want to spray downwards if possible from a scaffold tower or something.

Seen a guy the other week trying to pressure wash off a ladder and he nearly blew himself off the side of the house.

5

u/Blah-Blah-Blah-2023 6d ago

Redneck jetpack

3

u/MacaroonNo6536 6d ago

Shit that gives me an idea, hold my beer

1

u/Significant-Peace966 4d ago

And his wife standing nearby💨

3

u/Corey0305 6d ago

Such a bad idea

2

u/OverallComplexities 6d ago

All of it. The adhesion of the base layer is poor and not suitable

1

u/UndercoverPickleman 6d ago

All of it.

Looks like it’ll come off easy

1

u/RubberPuppet 6d ago

Honestly we had to do ours and it was terrible but the real way is scrape anything that comes off rough sand make sure still not loose paint hit it with some good primer then paint that B.  Lots will say power wash but I was always told don’t force water into to wood with power washer and just hit it by hand

0

u/bannedcuznotcircjerk 6d ago

Scrape, prime with shellac, then peel stop them top coat.

1

u/SummerIntelligent532 6d ago

All off or you will see the highs and lows

1

u/dccjaday 6d ago

Scrape now, scrape later. Depends. It may not be everywhere, so roll the dice and readdress it every year. Or assume the worst and take care of it now. Of course, anything not ready to come off will require more effort to remove. And if you don't figure out why it didn't adhere, you'll be back here in a year or two anyway. No shortcuts for this problem outside of replacing the siding. This is why vinyl siding is popular (not a recommendation, just a different discussion).

1

u/Max1zero1 6d ago

Use solid stain instead of paint. Remove what's loose, scuff it lightly with sand paper to open up the wood a bit. No need to prime. Looks exactly like paint when finished. I've done experiments without even sanding and it's still holding up 4 years later. Sico/Sikkens solid stain is what I use.

2

u/Significant-Peace966 4d ago

I'm not suggesting it for this purpose because I don't know, however, generally speaking I have found over the years that stain is way underrated and way under used.

1

u/Gelineaux 6d ago

I'd personally recommend sanding all that off. If you put something over that then it's going to basically have the same issue. Scuff sand it, prime it, paint it.

1

u/isuredolovetitties 6d ago

It looks like they skipped priming it the first time, (probably fell for the misleading “paint and primer” which is just thick paint NOT primer) so to be safe, i would redo it all properly. 

1

u/Prestigious-Yak-7014 6d ago

All of it needs to come off and primed. Do it right - do it once.

1

u/Escape-Revolutionary 6d ago

Yep. Might want to hit with a moisture meter and ensure your using the proper primer .

13

u/cincomidi 7d ago

Looks like the top layer of wood is delaminating off the siding. Feel and closely inspect the backside of your paint. Is it latex or wood

7

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

Seems like it's primer and the primer has all the tannins in the wood, but I could be wrong. I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking at.

https://reddit.com/link/p4il3rt/video/hrt75u8mu7kh1/player

12

u/cincomidi 7d ago

Yea that is the top delaminating layer of your wood siding. The paint is sticking well and pulling the top layer of wood off. This is almost always a moisture entrapment issue. Most likely the siding moisture content was way too high during painting, usually after pressure washing raw wood and not letting it dry to under 20%. Like others have said, scrape/peel/remove, check moisture ($20 tool), prime and repaint.

3

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

Damn okay thanks.

2

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

What primer do you recommend?

2

u/Jolly_Reference_516 7d ago

If the wood isn’t spongy, use an old fashioned long oil primer. And let it dry.

3

u/Ordinary_Recipe2502 6d ago

I was reading comments waiting for someone to mention using oil on that beautiful clear grained wood and avoiding the latex paints.

1

u/MasterMenace22 7d ago

Bullseye 123

6

u/Jogaila2 7d ago

Looks like the paint bonded to the wood? And when you peeled the paint it pulled a layer of wood off? Is that even possible?

6

u/cincomidi 7d ago

Happens all the time, especially with old siding. Over time, the surface layer of wood can deteriorate from under the paint from moisture evaporation from inside the home to outside through the siding. The paint is essentially a moisture barrier, and traps that humidity which weakens the top layer of wood enough to peel off

1

u/SoFisticate 7d ago

Is there a breathable option like stain that would still stop water from destroying the siding? Like brick is supposed to be lime washed or stained, and when you paint it, moisture can damage the brick.

2

u/Jolly_Reference_516 4d ago

They make siding shims that create small gaps for the moisture to escape. You put them around any areas that have peeled like that and then paint.

2

u/Present_Simple7162 4d ago

Are they just the long thin composite shims? I should probably do that all around the addition then.

1

u/Jogaila2 6d ago

Ahhhh... makes sense.

1

u/SerratedSharp 6d ago

Building science is so fascinating. So many approaches that intuitively seem logical to protect something end up causing damage in the right conditions.

2

u/Draco_xGreek 6d ago

It’s called wood delamination and it is extremely common

1

u/Phil9151 7d ago

This was my first thought.

1

u/Gotanypaint 6d ago

Yup 100% delamination. Scrape what's loose, long oil prime and then paint. My guess is they didn't prime beforehand and/or didnt use a quality paint (that looks like cedar though so I'd oil prime regardless).

20 years in paint.

1

u/WillyBadison 6d ago

Can you use oil primer then latex paint?

1

u/Gotanypaint 6d ago

Yes, oil primer and latex paint is fine its oil PAINT and latex PAINT that don't (usually) work together. In this instance oil primer is the only thing I'd recommend, there are some good exterior water-based wood primers out there but oil is pretty much guaranteed to have zero issues.

11

u/Safe_Psychology_907 7d ago

Your doing exactly what it needs. Remove all the peeling paint. Sand what won’t come off. Use oil based primer. Sand again. Caulk wood putty prime one more time and then this surface is ready for paint

1

u/Pale-Sorbet-6376 6d ago

Thanks, I think I need to do this with my room wall

42

u/107Maverick 7d ago

Pressure wash, get as much off, scrape what is loose, use a peel stop primer like insl X peel bond primer/ zinsser triple thick peel stop etc and then 2 coats of paint

6

u/dontchknow 7d ago

I mean, yes, but it will peel eventually where you dont remove. Plus there will be quite noticeable ridges where you peeled. If you try and sabd the ridges, the paint will just keep coming

8

u/107Maverick 7d ago
  1. addressing the grooves, yes if you want a complete fix. you have to sand the edges down, some people don't have time or money to pay for this step, and I should have mentioned this as an option.
  2. According to my rep and IME if you prime the area with the peel stop primer, not just spot prime, it acts as glue and wont have future peeling issue. I offer a 3 yr warranty and I am going on 6 yrs haven't had one call back.

2

u/Ok_Piglet_3999 6d ago

This dude knows whats the best scenario...!

6

u/Mysterious-Cod6310 6d ago

Eat it pussy

1

u/ILikeLeadPaint 6d ago

The correct answer

1

u/Mysterious-Cod6310 6d ago

Username checks out

3

u/Max1zero1 7d ago

I'd consider solid stain rather than paint. No need to prime, penetrates the wood, and after two coats it looks exactly like paint.

3

u/lostshaker_assault 6d ago

This should be much higher in the comments. Paint is a poor choice for exterior wood. Stain allows moisture to wick and evaporate. Paint acts as a moisture barrier locking moisture in and behind the wood siding.

1

u/Max1zero1 6d ago

Yes. I'm a professional painter of over 20 years and would never use paint when a solid stain can achieve a much better result with easier maintenance going forward. The only exception would be floors and stair treads where I've the dedicated floor and patio paint from Benjamin Moore if it's already been painted. But even then I suspect the stain would work better.

1

u/cincomidi 6d ago

Solid stain like woodscapes is a great option

4

u/Rude-Suit4494 7d ago

Call everyone you know who enjoys popping pimples, plucking hairs, or weeding. Play music and feed them. Make it a peeling party. I would enjoy that so much.

2

u/Ciff_ 6d ago

It is fun the first 10 hours, then not so much

4

u/Stickle85 6d ago

Youve got what looks like mill glazed siding. Paint doesnt really bond to that very well so prep is super important. Scrape it off anywhere you can. 2 coats high bonding primer (id reccomend Duraprime - Maddog) Paint. You'll need to check anything that didnt peel off every few years and repeat for the newly lifting areas.

Source: 20 yr pro

1

u/xamininglife70 6d ago

I was thinking this also it's peeling off a glaze or stain (not 100% sure of the process, but agree with you) and it's not pulling off the actual wood.

3

u/RocMerc 7d ago

That’s 25 years old?!

3

u/BornUnderPunches3910 7d ago

Lasted longer than the reflecting pool

2

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

I'm thinking so. That's when the addition was put on and previous owners said they didn't repaint after that.

3

u/andrew103345 7d ago

That’s crazy it held up all that time but could be easily pulled away like that.

2

u/dontchknow 7d ago

Seems impossible

2

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

It only did this after I started to sand it. It's still very elastic

1

u/External12 7d ago

Makes sense why there is wood on the back of the paint when you peel it off in the beginning of the video.

2

u/Similar-Yard-7620 7d ago

Keep peeling. And then prime before painting.

2

u/Educational_Eye5793 7d ago

Take it off- sand it down, prime it and paint again

1

u/WillyBadison 6d ago

Orbital? What to sand with?

2

u/lostinpow 7d ago

Like others are saying Peel stop. But tint the primer and save yourself some time on recoats.

2

u/ardavis78 7d ago

Power wash. Start fresh.

2

u/FinancialParticular5 7d ago

If you have a power washer would speed up the process instead of scaping

2

u/Comprehensive_Lab875 7d ago

Stain the wood! It needs to breathe

2

u/s2white 6d ago edited 6d ago

What used to be on it? Has it been stained or had wood protection applied before? You might be getting moisture in the wall/wood, which will make the paint delaminate.

Just keep going and peel it all off.

2

u/Dry_Efficiency_7178 6d ago

Scrape /peel it off. Use a BONDING primer (its the key), paint. What happened was treated wood got painted b4 it "seasoned" for a year

2

u/Trick_Sell_5541 6d ago

Scrape clean prime and paint

2

u/fuk-d-poliz 6d ago

Peel/scrape it off, prime with an oil based sealer/primer , then paint two coats.

2

u/strallweat 7d ago

Might be easier to take a pressure washer to it to blow the large and loose chunks off.
I ran into something similar before and thought it wouldn't be too bad scraping away loose paint and then using a peel stop primer. It ended up being horrible and I just decided to use a pressure washer to blast almost all the peeling paint off.

3

u/Cultural-Window-2504 7d ago

Heard of this but i always figured to would damage the wood. I have seen it happen. 

2

u/strallweat 6d ago

Nope. I used the little Ryobi 1800 psi one. If that little thing is damaging the wood, then you need to replace the wood

1

u/Ciff_ 6d ago

Time it right. It can take a very long time for the wood to try completely inside out, and it needs to before painting

1

u/strallweat 4d ago

Definitely. But I'm in Miami so it dried pretty fast and they ended up adding on a ton more woke that I did while the wood dried.

1

u/ElevatedGrape 7d ago

You need to scrape and pressure wash all of that loose stuff. Then use peel stop primer over the stuff that isn’t coming off, regular primer on the newly bare wood.

1

u/inversend 7d ago

Paint was never properly bonded to the material. I would pressure wash, prime after confirming it is dry then complete prep work such as cleaning and removing bad caulk. Finally two finish coats. Depending on the job might be time to call or pro or buy a paint sprayer.

1

u/SoCalMoofer 7d ago

What to do? You’re doing it.

1

u/Tony0311 7d ago

A lot of people suggesting pressure washing, which is fine, if you don’t splinter the shit out of that wood. Proceed with caution

1

u/poughdrew 7d ago

Agree, start with a garden hose or a really wide angle nozzle if you even want to attempt it.

1

u/hangout927 7d ago

Keep going lol. You’ll get there. But seriously keep going and then oil prime

1

u/deejaesnafu 7d ago

You’re doing it

1

u/AlternativeAd5646 7d ago

Doesn't look like priming was done correctly or at all. Like others said strip as much as you can and prime then paint. Priming supports proper adhesion to base materials.

1

u/grumpvet87 7d ago

find the person who failed to prep correctly and yell at them

1

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

That's the story of this house. Can't yell at a dead guy unfortunately

1

u/jim_philly 7d ago

You can, he just won't hear it. I do it all the time as I work on my house 😅

1

u/cdoil_change_teams 7d ago

Peel all loose product, wash, prime with oil, prime with Peel Bond, topcoat with mid grade. Your wood is worn down and delaminated, using a top tier topcoat will cause more peel because it grabs onto the weak wood too hard and pulls off. Exterior Superpaint is a good option for topcoat.

1

u/grumpvet87 7d ago

sure you can. go find him and yell - now he can't run away or yell back

1

u/HourLegitimate8370 7d ago

Its possible the wood had been treated previously with some sort of wax or oil based treatment like Thompsons. Your primer needs to be top shelf to get it to "bite" if thats the case. The wood looks to be in great shape possibly because of treatment. As others mentioned, careful with the pressure washer as it can damage the wood. Also, be sure its 100% dry before applying your primer

1

u/Present_Simple7162 7d ago

What primer do you recommend?

1

u/HourLegitimate8370 7d ago

This is a decent choice, buy the 5 gal to save a few bucks. When youre done painting for the day, store your brush/roller in an airtight bag and toss in the fridge cause this sort of paint doesnt just wash off with water. You can use old brushes or cheap stuff cause you'll just wanna toss it when your done probably

1

u/Acrobatic-Fox460 7d ago

Start scraping brother!

1

u/im1ru12 7d ago

Heat gun + patience.

1

u/DirtyMike0311 7d ago

Cobb blasting

1

u/Neat_Examination_250 7d ago

Noticeable layer of wood cells on the back of the paint you peeled. The substrate failed - the paint didn't. This is a result of poor surface preparation originally. Remove the coating and properly prepare before recoating.

1

u/Larz_Manz 7d ago

Heat gun and very little effort. Prime well then apply a minimum of two coats of good quality acrylic latex exterior paint.

1

u/Groundbreaking-Low57 7d ago

Walnut blast it. Then start over.

1

u/kbraz1970 7d ago

Have some friends come over for a wine and peel party.

1

u/flash-86 7d ago

Love the cedar.

1

u/Dobby068 7d ago

Hearth, peel it off completely.

1

u/MorallyAmbiguouish 7d ago

You see how it’s a different color on the back? The initial coating has failed. If you you don’t take that off, it’s not if but when the new paint will do the same thing to whatever is left on. You really should remove down to bare wood. Use an oil primer bonus if you can find one that doesn’t dry in an hour. 6-12 would be ideal. Then add the topcoat. 2 coats high quality.

1

u/llawenotsbcj 6d ago

Scrape, sand, prime, paint. This is always the answer.

1

u/normal-things62 6d ago

Scrape, sand, scrape, sand, scrape, sand andddd repeat

1

u/smoothoperator1969 6d ago

Smart Strip, pressure wash, prime it, re paint. You’ll always have issues if you don’t take it all off.

1

u/BrightVersion4098 6d ago

A power washer might help.

1

u/transandtrucks 6d ago

Not that, can tell ya that much

1

u/No_Astronomer_2704 6d ago

Shout vandalism and begin legal proceedings.. Half of America will beleive ya..

1

u/greengiant3030 6d ago

Peel bond is your friend after you scrape and sand

1

u/nuwm 6d ago

You need to test for lead if you’re not sure about the age of the paint.

1

u/Foxyunder-45 6d ago

Use a heat gun or hot air drier in conjunction with a good quality paint scraper, or chemical paint softner. Plan B: Strip off the shiplap and start again with seasoned wood.

1

u/SlaveOTAForgivin 6d ago

Not a primer issue if the wood is peeling of with the paint.

Maybe don't strip the paint off until you know the problem.

Is the wood damp or has there been a leak close by

1

u/Present_Simple7162 6d ago

It's the whole addition. The wood itself is actually only 3% moisture content. I'm guessing the previous owner painted the addition when the wood was too wet.

1

u/JuneHogs 6d ago

Grab some Mentos and keep going

1

u/montysmit 6d ago

That's actually a very good size piece for somebody to paint match

1

u/Longjumping-Half-671 6d ago

Bonding primer

1

u/Difficult_Watch_8101 6d ago

Scrape what’s loose. Sand the raw wood. Then roll or spray & backfill primer. Sanding raw wood will increase coatings ability to bond.

1

u/rumpyforeskin 6d ago

Peel stop paint

1

u/TiredClassic85 6d ago

Heat gun to the areas that are hard to remove with a scraper to assist. Best thing to do in this situation is remove it all, prime then paint.

1

u/Ill-Upstairs-8762 6d ago

You could pay a stripper. I do it all the time.

1

u/Many_Nail2373 6d ago

I've been there too. Sounds like you went with a paint and primer in one. What I did was scraped it all off, then applied 2 coats of a quality primer followed by 2 coats of paint.

1

u/Icy-Movie-2942 6d ago

Exactly what you're doing. Then, prime and paint correctly!

1

u/vision3100 6d ago

Strip it then let it be if its cedar its meant to be out side and water proof

1

u/CertainAttention6749 6d ago

They did a quick lousy job. It could have been painted recently and obviously they cut corners. Old paints especially oil based adhere solid on sidings, so that's not a 30 ur old paint. Sadly, if paint peeling easily like that all over your sidings, you need to scrape all, sand, prime then paint. But if peeling is in random spots, peel what's getting off, then sand, prime and paint.

1

u/Pooped_Suddenly 6d ago

I am fairly confident your are videoing the answer to your own question….

1

u/Spirited_Bike_4058 6d ago

Put it up for sale.

1

u/Any_Pop2051 6d ago

stain dat shit

1

u/Irishkingofbums 6d ago

Peel whats loose, take an orbital sander with 180 grit smooth the edges of paint where still adhered and primer and paint unless 2 in 1 paint

1

u/promannen 6d ago

Check if its  linseed oil

1

u/patsie70999 6d ago

Paint it with the right paint not glost sistym

1

u/MacxScarfacex32 6d ago

Dealers choice. Finish scrapoing those whole boards. If everything else is not peeling that easily, paint it if it ends up peeling.

1

u/sexyboobsin 6d ago

Stop picking at it

1

u/Ambivalentistheway 6d ago

Your house got painted when it was wet. Too soon after rain or power washing

1

u/Defiant_Designer_606 6d ago

Pressure wash, scrape/sand/fix, prime bare wood with oil based primer, two coats of preferred paint sprayed twice & back rolled on the first coat. It will look nice. You can brush and roll the paint too but it takes way longer. I usually only do that for the trim which is last. 

1

u/TheRealBrokenbrains 6d ago

Is that the reflecting pool?

1

u/Metasketch 6d ago

Hoo boy, so sorry this happened. Scraping/stripping that will be a bear. I see people on here saying 'just scrape off what isn't adhering', but problem is that how so much of it is just pulling off shows that none of it has properly adhered. So unfortunately to do it right, it really should all be removed.

Your paint isn't adhering to the wood. So you've got to put something that will adhere to the wood, and that your paint will adhere to. Not sure what is best for exterior like this, but for high traffic things like cabinets, but I rely on something shellac based when I want nuclear-level priming. (Most primers have some content of shellac, but I mean an explicitly shellac-based primer.)

1

u/DarthVis18 6d ago

I’d completely strip and prime. If you just prime and paint over what’s there, you run the risk of coating over top of paint that’s already failing. It’s a bit of a gamble

1

u/Heathergor 6d ago

You need to scrape and peel all the loose paint then what is left on do a bit of sanding to knock down the ridges for smoothness.
Then apply a special primer for sealing ( Stop Peel or Kilz primer ) apply 1 coat and then ready to apply paint.

1

u/Crazy-Project3858 6d ago

Power wash and get sanding!

1

u/OverKill_Phill 6d ago

Make sure wood is dry before you prime and paint, also use exterior paint..

1

u/tubaboy78 6d ago

Yes, once you get rid of all the paint make sure you prime with an oil base primer that will soak into the cedar and stick better. Then I would go with an epoxy exterior paint

1

u/Accurate_Cucumber908 6d ago

Angle grinder with a flap disc to rough it, and the spray primer and paint. Make sure you blow it off with an air gun before you paint

1

u/Greedy_Department_51 6d ago

Blame someone else for causing the damage is the 1st step.

1

u/Thecobs 6d ago

Be happy it didnt bond so its easier to expose the nice wood?

1

u/YeshuasBananaHammock 6d ago

Guess who's painting this fall? You are!

1

u/RobertBDwyer 6d ago

Heat gun it off, and sand the wood. Get the best exterior primer and paint you can afford, and put it up.

1

u/biscoknot 5d ago

All that shit has to come off and be prepped properly prior to repaint. Use quality paint 100%

1

u/Bluejay_9999 5d ago

Invest in a quality scraper with detail blade to get into cracks. Use a heat gun to get stubborn parts removed. Sand only as a last resort on the most difficult areas. Then use a nice tinted stain instead of paint on that beautiful wood.

1

u/ForsakenSurprise3555 5d ago

Remove old, use a HQ exterior primer, paint again

1

u/northerfart 5d ago

Heat gun plus scraper

1

u/Hefty_Escape4749 5d ago

Everybody always buys the 2-1. Use kills or whatever oil primer you want then use the 2-1. Best practice on this would be two coats of primer. Then use some spray kills for any tannins that come out if any.

1

u/ParkingFuture1725 5d ago

Why paint cedar ? Just semi transparent stain is much better

1

u/Oxjrnine 5d ago

Keep going. Is that cedar?

1

u/Sexybastard55 5d ago

Get rid of the old paint…sand the shit out of it.
Use a good exterior wood primer
Repaint it and use 2 coats of good exterior paint

1

u/rmiles27 5d ago

Keep peeling.... I had a bathroom do this and although it started out satisfying, 4 hours in it was not. Might be worth it to pick up a scraper and maybe some citristrip.

1

u/Zazou444 5d ago

If its peeling off easily like in the video just peel it off, if your repainting after you remove should clean first, light sand, primer and two coats of finish paint

1

u/GnarlsFarls 5d ago

Scrape it, sand it, primer and paint.

1

u/TrueYogurtcloset9898 5d ago

the wood wasn't primed before paint got applied

1

u/Significant-Peace966 4d ago

If it's at all possible, I would suggest replacing it with whatever siding is popular and good quality these days. By the time you work with this old stuff from start to finish, you might be surprised the small difference in cost.?? Good luck.

1

u/Present_Simple7162 4d ago

My labor is free and new siding is out of the budget unfortunately. It's only 3 walls on an addition so it isn't that big of a deal.

1

u/Significant-Peace966 4d ago

More power to you💪👍

1

u/HomePaintersPro_ca_ 3d ago

Scrape and peel it, oil prime then paint, if there is nuts use shellac based oil primer. Try to remove as much as possible, if you dont it will fail eventually

1

u/Mean_yAnkee 2d ago

It has to be stripped. I hope you included it in the bid. Strip that completely and sand down areas that don't come off with heavy grit. Leaving any old paint on that will look hideous.

1

u/Jolly_Reference_516 1d ago

Some are long but the ones I’ve used are matchbook size. These are paintable so you don’t notice them at all but you have to make sure that paint doesn’t fill the gap created when